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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 7:32 am 
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Quote:
Coronavirus: airlines face meltdown as global travel bans multiply
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-multiply
Big businesses openly coddled by big governments while individual care workers don't make enough to qualify for Statutory Sick Pay (SSP). People employed by the travel industry don't need to be thrown out of work; all kinds of necessary work needs doing. Capitalists had better invest in sustainable enterprises.
Quote:
The US government said on Saturday that it would “immediately” begin working on ways to help the coronavirus-hit aviation and cruise industries as they scramble to stem losses and protect jobs.
Is that government's job? Protecting private industry's losses? Private US industry leaders and the government endlessly bankrolling their empires use the term socialist pejoratively. The only thing protected are failing corporations, not workers.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 8:19 am 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
Coronavirus: airlines face meltdown as global travel bans multiply
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-multiply
Big businesses openly coddled by big governments while individual care workers don't make enough to qualify for Statutory Sick Pay (SSP). People employed by the travel industry don't need to be thrown out of work; all kinds of necessary work needs doing. Capitalists had better invest in sustainable enterprises.
Quote:
The US government said on Saturday that it would “immediately” begin working on ways to help the coronavirus-hit aviation and cruise industries as they scramble to stem losses and protect jobs.
Is that government's job? Protecting private industry's losses? Private US industry leaders and the government endlessly bankrolling their empires use the term socialist pejoratively. The only thing protected are failing corporations, not workers.

Morning cJA !
"not workers" and certainly not the sick and disabled and unemployed and ZHC'ers and homeless!

In 2007/8 my son was carpentering in Oz . A little after he left his Oz bank account was credited with a few hundred dollars . Helicopter money .
Having been attacking the idea ever since the current RW idiots under Scott Morrison may now be copying it ! Of course it was a Labor govt then .
iirc Tulsi Gabbard has suggested the same ?


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 8:35 am 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
adam wrote:
UK - the government are actively persuing a plan that should see infections rise to something like 40,000,000, which would very very roughly, at a 'better' estimate of 1% fatality, mean we would expect to see around 400,000 deaths.


Precisely, not to mention around 30% of the 'healthy' population who catch Coronavirus will require medical treatment, that's (very roughly) 12 million people.

Thankfully the sheer callous insanity of this herd immunity approach seems to be sinking in and the backlash and u-turns have begun.

Just two nights ago Steve Baker on Question Time claimed there was 'scientific consensus across the UK' in support of the government's actions. That was laughable then and after the letter from hundreds of scientists demanding more restrictive measures today I'd love to hear him try and repeat it.

Scientific advisors give a range of options, they don't dictate policy, Johnson and his twisted cronies will have chosen this course of action because it's cheap and they had to do very little. I'm not sure what they thought was going to happen when people realised half a million of them were going to be sacrificed.

Mmmm ! Steve Baker, ex RAF groundstaff and late would-be Cold Warrior?
AND of course a leading light of the ERG and all its 'consequences'.
I hope clips of his QT appearance can go 'viral on youtube ?

Off to sociologise the supermarket in Granville . I wonder if the 5 and 25 kg sacks of rice are still there ?


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 8:44 am 
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basmati rice sounds good


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 8:46 am 
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Quote:
This point was summed up by medical researcher Michael Head of Southampton University. “More stringent interventions will come, and potentially very soon,” he said. “We know that. Many people are vocal, saying gung-ho should be the UK response. The usual justification that comes with that is, ‘because they’re doing it over there’. That’s not providing the evidence base that supports those views.”


Stupid, irresponsible super-spreader of nonsense. Does he think those 'over there' are just making it up? That there is no consideration of precedent and procedure and expert advice 'over there'?

40million infected. Upwards of 400,000 deaths. That's the plan.

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 8:53 am 
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And of course the Tory money-saving plan not to do extensive testing makes sense, to THEM !

Surviving researchers can use serological data from more advanced places , such as South Korea ...


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 8:57 am 
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adam wrote:
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This point was summed up by medical researcher Michael Head of Southampton University. “More stringent interventions will come, and potentially very soon,” he said. “We know that. Many people are vocal, saying gung-ho should be the UK response. The usual justification that comes with that is, ‘because they’re doing it over there’. That’s not providing the evidence base that supports those views.”


Stupid, irresponsible super-spreader of nonsense. Does he think those 'over there' are just making it up? That there is no consideration of precedent and procedure and expert advice 'over there'?

40million infected. Upwards of 400,000 deaths. That's the plan.

One has to laugh ! "potentially very soon" translates as "Aaaagh, YESTERDAY!"
(I'll look up the January clip of our Health minister telling us not to worry ...)


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 9:00 am 
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Quote:
"I am persuaded that they are sincerely endeavouring to do the right thing."
This coronavirus crisis has forced the retirement of pantomime Johnson
Andrew Rawnsley


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 9:07 am 
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I'd be persuaded if it were more important believing horseshit over factual information.
I'm unpersuaded believing horseshit over facts is ever in my or anyone else's best interests.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 9:09 am 
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Is there lasagna, please?


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 9:51 am 
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Quote:
Britain goes it alone over coronavirus. We can only hope the gamble pays off
Devi Sridhar
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-pays-off
Coherent article


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:04 am 
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Peston has taken over from Laura K as the most reliable Cummings conduit, it seems.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:09 am 
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Good morfternoon.

Any financial help on offer to manufacturers who will need it in order to switch their production to ventilators (as per Matt Hancock's plea)? Or are we saving up all our pennies to give to Richard Branson?

Meanwhile, we press on with "Brexit" because it's so important, and will help us enormously in the current climate. When the facts change, I come over even more bloody-minded . . .


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:13 am 
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At least Johnson got his wish and no-one's talking about Brexit, to the point where I reckon they could sign us up to EFTA/EEA tomorrow and the majority wouldn't bat an eyelid.

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:18 am 
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I don't watch Marr but caught a moment of Hancock being incoherent on advice to older people needing carers.

It seems obvious to me that care workers are going to need PPE (protective clothing) and to know how to use it, I'd love to hear the plans for that.

Re this idea that we don't tell people to self-isolate yet because they might get bored and start mixing again when the epidemic is at its height, really? The news is reporting hundreds of deaths every day but older people are going to decide now's the time to pop down to Asda because they're bored?

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:27 am 
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citizenJA wrote:
Is there lasagna, please?


I'm making a lamb stew - chopped lamb breast and liver with layers of onions and potatoes, rosemary and garlic, carrots (homegrown monster carrots) and peas on the side. Ready about 6.

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:33 am 
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This is worth watching.

https://twitter.com/Outoftweet123/statu ... 7047498755

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:49 am 
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gilsey wrote:
At least Johnson got his wish and no-one's talking about Brexit, to the point where I reckon they could sign us up to EFTA/EEA tomorrow and the majority wouldn't bat an eyelid.




Quote:
Brexit: coronavirus sparks calls to extend EU transition period (Observer)


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/14/calls-to-extend-eu-transition-period-as-europe-fights-coronavirus

and -

Quote:
Brexit means coronavirus vaccine will be slower to reach the UK

And it will cost more here because of the UK pulling out of the European Medicines Agency on 30 December
• Three experts explain why Brexit leaves the UK less able to respond to pandemic (Observer)


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-vaccine-delays-brexit-ema-expensive


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:55 am 
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Its not just possible for many older people to totally self-isolate for months on end (as opposed to *minimising* contact, which is clearly sensible)


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 11:55 am 
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adam wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Is there lasagna, please?


I'm making a lamb stew - chopped lamb breast and liver with layers of onions and potatoes, rosemary and garlic, carrots (homegrown monster carrots) and peas on the side. Ready about 6.



Would you mind making me some dumplings, please?


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:26 pm 
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This relates to Matt Hancock writing in the Telegraph.

Quote:
Oldfirmfacts


@Oldfirmfacts1
3h3 hours ago
More
THE TELEGRAPH, APRIL 1912

“While not wishing to spread alarm on the Titanic, it’s important that passengers be aware that we are approaching a massive

TO CONTINUE READING THIS ARTICLE...”


:D

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:29 pm 
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adam wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Is there lasagna, please?


I'm making a lamb stew - chopped lamb breast and liver with layers of onions and potatoes, rosemary and garlic, carrots (homegrown monster carrots) and peas on the side. Ready about 6.
:rock:


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:32 pm 
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A tragic tale.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:32 pm 
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Quote:
If coronavirus has a silver lining, it should be the return of the bow and the curtsy

DANIEL HANNAN


:lol:

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:34 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
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If coronavirus has a silver lining, it should be the return of the bow and the curtsy

DANIEL HANNAN


:lol:


And, as ever - "PREMIUM" :D


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:35 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Its not just possible for many older people to totally self-isolate for months on end (as opposed to *minimising* contact, which is clearly sensible)

Is there increased, systematic testing for the virus happening in the UK now?


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:51 pm 
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No.

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:53 pm 
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https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/statu ... 4627667969

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 12:54 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
Britain goes it alone over coronavirus. We can only hope the gamble pays off
Devi Sridhar
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-pays-off
Coherent article

Quote:
" However, rather than learning from other countries and following the WHO advice, which comes from experts with decades of experience in tackling outbreaks across the world, the UK has decided to follow its own path. This seems to accept that the virus is unstoppable and will probably become an annual, seasonal infection."

What is extraordinarily risky, added to the amazingly weak English measures (as of Friday.....) to flatten that exponential curve is that --
"we still don’t know yet whether individuals can be re-infected once they have recovered."
If you don't like my scientists, there are others ;)


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 1:06 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
He's ended up donating his stockpile, that's better than I'd hoped after reading about him. His justification attempts made me wince.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 1:14 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1239144694627667969

I believe the person tweeting this aside from the thread topic. Doesn't surprise me.
Quote:
"Met someone in Leigh a few weeks ago who is adamant you are still the Health Secretary, and not doing a good job."


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 1:16 pm 
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@frog222
yes, I thought the same


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 1:39 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
gilsey wrote:
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1239144694627667969

I believe the person tweeting this aside from the thread topic. Doesn't surprise me.
Quote:
"Met someone in Leigh a few weeks ago who is adamant you are still the Health Secretary, and not doing a good job."


Massive gaslighting campaign before the last GE that Labour were "still in power", remember.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 2:01 pm 
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Instead of "ten years of NHS underfunding" and leaving the rest unsaid , Why not --
" Ten years of Tory Misrule caused NHS underfunding "


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 2:01 pm 
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Edmund Griffiths
@EdmundGriffiths
Problem is in these situations that governments act too late. A ban on travel from Europe to the Americas could have had real public health benefits; but the time to do it was 1492

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 2:03 pm 
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Hancock is a moron ! Am I not allowed to leave home to go for a bike-ride ?

Thick-brained and heavy-handed .


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 2:05 pm 
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Quote:
UK ministers will no longer claim 'no successful examples' of Russian interference

Change of official line is first admission that Kremlin may have distorted UK elections
(Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/15/uk-ministers-will-no-longer-claim-no-successful-examples-of-russian-interference


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Quote:
I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire
William Hanage
UK Government is fine with that. They'd prefer you'd continue thinking it and not point out their plans are disastrous.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 2:42 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
UK ministers will no longer claim 'no successful examples' of Russian interference

Change of official line is first admission that Kremlin may have distorted UK elections
(Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/15/uk-ministers-will-no-longer-claim-no-successful-examples-of-russian-interference


Is our own "Russia Inquiry" ever going to come out?


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Matt Hancock keeps saying that he's had, and is having, conversations with potential ventilator producers. Where have I heard that sort of claim before?

Edited to add, for clarity - potential producers of ventilators. At least I hope that's what he means.


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 5:01 pm 
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Sounds like Hancock is meeting with Grayling's business contacts


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 5:04 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire
William Hanage
UK Government is fine with that. They'd prefer you'd continue thinking it and not point out their plans are disastrous.
Quote:
"Your house is on fire, and the people whom you have trusted with your care are not trying to put it out. Even though they knew it was coming, and could see what happened to the neighbours as they were overwhelmed with terrifying speed, the UK government has inexplicably chosen to encourage the flames, in the misguided notion that somehow they will be able to control them.

When I first heard about this, I could not believe it. I research and teach the evolution and epidemiology of infectious disease at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health. My colleagues here in the US, even as they are reeling from the stumbling response of the Donald Trump administration to the crisis, assumed that reports of the UK policy were satire – an example of the wry humour for which the country is famed. But they are all too real."


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 5:05 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Matt Hancock keeps saying that he's had, and is having, conversations with potential ventilator producers. Where have I heard that sort of claim before?

Edited to add, for clarity - potential producers of ventilators. At least I hope that's what he means.
I'm sure I read somewhere, at the G , that discussions with possible manufacturers were well under way, but the statements I've seen today make it sound as tho they are going to do so next week .


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Quote:
"We talk about vaccines generating herd immunity, so why is this different? Because this is not a vaccine. This is an actual pandemic that will make a very large number of people sick, and some of them will die. Even though the mortality rate is likely quite low, a small fraction of a very large number is still a large number. And the mortality rate will climb when the NHS is overwhelmed."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-covid-19


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 5:48 pm 
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adam wrote:
So... I might have this wrong, but...

China - c80,000 cases and c3100 deaths - spread of infection appears to be highly controlled because of lockdown measures
Italy - 15,000edit- c20,000 infected, over 1000 deaths, massive measures in place to restrict infection.
South Korea - c8,000 cases, c100 deaths,massive measures in place to rescrict infection

Three of the worst case countries but typical of what's going on everywhere else in the world. Put controls and restrictions in place, fight infection, protect the sick and vulnerable.

UK - the government are actively persuing a plan that should see infections rise to something like 40,000,000, which would very very roughly, at a 'better' estimate of 1% fatality, mean we would expect to see around 400,000 deaths.

EDITED AGAIN TO ADD - estimated UK military and civilian combined casualties in World War II - c450,000.

I think we need to start telling public figures - politicians, doctors, opinion formers and spreaders - who are pursuing this, that when this lunacy has passed from the country they will never work again, that we will hold them to account.

Edited to add - I know that I sound completely insane here.


You don’t sound insane - but I wonder whether the UK will really hold anyone to account. Johnson will spin it and enough people will want to believe him because the can’t be arsed doing otherwise.

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 5:50 pm 
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If coronavirus has a silver lining, it should be the return of the bow and the curtsy

DANIEL HANNAN


WHAT THE F***?

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 5:51 pm 
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Am still seething about the boxer who saved Princess Anne’s life and then had to sell is resulting medal to pay (in advance) for his funeral. Maybe one of the royals or some Philanthropist could have forked over the 50k he got for it and he could still have kept his medal.

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 6:04 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Good morfternoon.

Any financial help on offer to manufacturers who will need it in order to switch their production to ventilators (as per Matt Hancock's plea)? Or are we saving up all our pennies to give to Richard Branson?

Meanwhile, we press on with "Brexit" because it's so important, and will help us enormously in the current climate. When the facts change, I come over even more bloody-minded . . .


Maybe the man Dyson could create and donate a bunch of ventilators

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 6:24 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
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You don’t sound insane - but I wonder whether the UK will really hold anyone to account. Johnson will spin it and enough people will want to believe him because the can’t be arsed doing otherwise.
(cJA edit)
Not so much they can't be arsed
There's no way Johnson doesn't know what he's doing
His government's strategy is calculated, cold and horrifying
Most people aren't like that and it's emotionally painful acknowledging sociopathic leadership over which they've little control


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Mar, 2020 7:10 pm 
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Evening all.

Back from taking 'er indoors for a scan...which proves, if nothing else, that they do operate a 7 day a week service.

And the machines taking money for car parking were bust so we got a free one for a change.

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