FlyTheNest

Coronavirus: airlines face meltdown as global travel bans multiply
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-multiply" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The US government said on Saturday that it would “immediately” begin working on ways to help the coronavirus-hit aviation and cruise industries as they scramble to stem losses and protect jobs.

citizenJA wrote:

Coronavirus: airlines face meltdown as global travel bans multiply
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-multiply" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Big businesses openly coddled by big governments while individual care workers don't make enough to qualify for Statutory Sick Pay (SSP). People employed by the travel industry don't need to be thrown out of work; all kinds of necessary work needs doing. Capitalists had better invest in sustainable enterprises.

The US government said on Saturday that it would “immediately” begin working on ways to help the coronavirus-hit aviation and cruise industries as they scramble to stem losses and protect jobs.

Is that government's job? Protecting private industry's losses? Private US industry leaders and the government endlessly bankrolling their empires use the term socialist pejoratively. The only thing protected are failing corporations, not workers.

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:

adam wrote:UK - the government are actively persuing a plan that should see infections rise to something like 40,000,000, which would very very roughly, at a 'better' estimate of 1% fatality, mean we would expect to see around 400,000 deaths.

Precisely, not to mention around 30% of the 'healthy' population who catch Coronavirus will require medical treatment, that's (very roughly) 12 million people.

Thankfully the sheer callous insanity of this herd immunity approach seems to be sinking in and the backlash and u-turns have begun.

Just two nights ago Steve Baker on Question Time claimed there was 'scientific consensus across the UK' in support of the government's actions. That was laughable then and after the letter from hundreds of scientists demanding more restrictive measures today I'd love to hear him try and repeat it.

Scientific advisors give a range of options, they don't dictate policy, Johnson and his twisted cronies will have chosen this course of action because it's cheap and they had to do very little. I'm not sure what they thought was going to happen when people realised half a million of them were going to be sacrificed.

This point was summed up by medical researcher Michael Head of Southampton University. “More stringent interventions will come, and potentially very soon,” he said. “We know that. Many people are vocal, saying gung-ho should be the UK response. The usual justification that comes with that is, ‘because they’re doing it over there’. That’s not providing the evidence base that supports those views.”

adam wrote:

This point was summed up by medical researcher Michael Head of Southampton University. “More stringent interventions will come, and potentially very soon,” he said. “We know that. Many people are vocal, saying gung-ho should be the UK response. The usual justification that comes with that is, ‘because they’re doing it over there’. That’s not providing the evidence base that supports those views.”

Stupid, irresponsible super-spreader of nonsense. Does he think those 'over there' are just making it up? That there is no consideration of precedent and procedure and expert advice 'over there'?

40million infected. Upwards of 400,000 deaths. That's the plan.

"I am persuaded that they are sincerely endeavouring to do the right thing."
This coronavirus crisis has forced the retirement of pantomime Johnson

Britain goes it alone over coronavirus. We can only hope the gamble pays off
Devi Sridhar
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-pays-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA wrote:Is there lasagna, please?

gilsey wrote:At least Johnson got his wish and no-one's talking about Brexit, to the point where I reckon they could sign us up to EFTA/EEA tomorrow and the majority wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Brexit: coronavirus sparks calls to extend EU transition period (Observer)

Brexit means coronavirus vaccine will be slower to reach the UK

And it will cost more here because of the UK pulling out of the European Medicines Agency on 30 December
• Three experts explain why Brexit leaves the UK less able to respond to pandemic (Observer)

adam wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Is there lasagna, please?

I'm making a lamb stew - chopped lamb breast and liver with layers of onions and potatoes, rosemary and garlic, carrots (homegrown monster carrots) and peas on the side. Ready about 6.

Oldfirmfacts
‏

@Oldfirmfacts1
3h3 hours ago
More
THE TELEGRAPH, APRIL 1912

“While not wishing to spread alarm on the Titanic, it’s important that passengers be aware that we are approaching a massive

TO CONTINUE READING THIS ARTICLE...”

adam wrote:

citizenJA wrote:Is there lasagna, please?

I'm making a lamb stew - chopped lamb breast and liver with layers of onions and potatoes, rosemary and garlic, carrots (homegrown monster carrots) and peas on the side. Ready about 6.

If coronavirus has a silver lining, it should be the return of the bow and the curtsy

DANIEL HANNAN

RogerOThornhill wrote:

If coronavirus has a silver lining, it should be the return of the bow and the curtsy

DANIEL HANNAN

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its not just possible for many older people to totally self-isolate for months on end (as opposed to *minimising* contact, which is clearly sensible)

citizenJA wrote:

Britain goes it alone over coronavirus. We can only hope the gamble pays off
Devi Sridhar
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-pays-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Coherent article

" However, rather than learning from other countries and following the WHO advice, which comes from experts with decades of experience in tackling outbreaks across the world, the UK has decided to follow its own path. This seems to accept that the virus is unstoppable and will probably become an annual, seasonal infection."

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:A tragic tale.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/tech ... llers.html

gilsey wrote:

"Met someone in Leigh a few weeks ago who is adamant you are still the Health Secretary, and not doing a good job."

citizenJA wrote:

gilsey wrote:

I believe the person tweeting this aside from the thread topic. Doesn't surprise me.

"Met someone in Leigh a few weeks ago who is adamant you are still the Health Secretary, and not doing a good job."

UK ministers will no longer claim 'no successful examples' of Russian interference

Change of official line is first admission that Kremlin may have distorted UK elections
(Guardian)

I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire
William Hanage

PorFavor wrote:

UK ministers will no longer claim 'no successful examples' of Russian interference

Change of official line is first admission that Kremlin may have distorted UK elections
(Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... terference

citizenJA wrote:

I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire
William Hanage

UK Government is fine with that. They'd prefer you'd continue thinking it and not point out their plans are disastrous.

"Your house is on fire, and the people whom you have trusted with your care are not trying to put it out. Even though they knew it was coming, and could see what happened to the neighbours as they were overwhelmed with terrifying speed, the UK government has inexplicably chosen to encourage the flames, in the misguided notion that somehow they will be able to control them.

When I first heard about this, I could not believe it. I research and teach the evolution and epidemiology of infectious disease at Harvard’s Chan School of Public Health. My colleagues here in the US, even as they are reeling from the stumbling response of the Donald Trump administration to the crisis, assumed that reports of the UK policy were satire – an example of the wry humour for which the country is famed. But they are all too real."

PorFavor wrote:Matt Hancock keeps saying that he's had, and is having, conversations with potential ventilator producers. Where have I heard that sort of claim before?

Edited to add, for clarity - potential producers of ventilators. At least I hope that's what he means.

"We talk about vaccines generating herd immunity, so why is this different? Because this is not a vaccine. This is an actual pandemic that will make a very large number of people sick, and some of them will die. Even though the mortality rate is likely quite low, a small fraction of a very large number is still a large number. And the mortality rate will climb when the NHS is overwhelmed."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-covid-19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

adam wrote:So... I might have this wrong, but...

China - c80,000 cases and c3100 deaths - spread of infection appears to be highly controlled because of lockdown measures
Italy - 15,000edit- c20,000 infected, over 1000 deaths, massive measures in place to restrict infection.
South Korea - c8,000 cases, c100 deaths,massive measures in place to rescrict infection

Three of the worst case countries but typical of what's going on everywhere else in the world. Put controls and restrictions in place, fight infection, protect the sick and vulnerable.

UK - the government are actively persuing a plan that should see infections rise to something like 40,000,000, which would very very roughly, at a 'better' estimate of 1% fatality, mean we would expect to see around 400,000 deaths.

EDITED AGAIN TO ADD - estimated UK military and civilian combined casualties in World War II - c450,000.

I think we need to start telling public figures - politicians, doctors, opinion formers and spreaders - who are pursuing this, that when this lunacy has passed from the country they will never work again, that we will hold them to account.

Edited to add - I know that I sound completely insane here.

If coronavirus has a silver lining, it should be the return of the bow and the curtsy

DANIEL HANNAN

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Any financial help on offer to manufacturers who will need it in order to switch their production to ventilators (as per Matt Hancock's plea)? Or are we saving up all our pennies to give to Richard Branson?

Meanwhile, we press on with "Brexit" because it's so important, and will help us enormously in the current climate. When the facts change, I come over even more bloody-minded . . .

tinyclanger2 wrote:---
You don’t sound insane - but I wonder whether the UK will really hold anyone to account. Johnson will spin it and enough people will want to believe him because the can’t be arsed doing otherwise.