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Monday 18th May 2020
http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2364
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Author:  refitman [ Mon 18 May, 2020 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Monday 18th May 2020

Morning all.

Author:  gilsey [ Mon 18 May, 2020 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Good morning.

Wren-Lewis.

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... where.html

Quote:
The problem with the belief that the economic recovery will be neither quick or complete is that it can be self-fulfilling. .....................................Once policymakers start believing that, you don’t get the stimulus measures you need to get a complete recovery. Once economic actors believe in it, then it becomes a self-fulfilling result.

Author:  AnatolyKasparov [ Mon 18 May, 2020 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Good morefternoon, all.

Author:  RogerOThornhill [ Mon 18 May, 2020 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Morning all.

Revealed: Edenred sued government over tender-free contract

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-eden ... f36c4f8a92

Quote:
The under-fire company that runs the national free meal voucher scheme took legal action against the government almost six years ago for issuing a contract to a rival without a tender.

Schools Week revealed the government’s contract with Edenred – valued at up to £234 million – was awarded without going to tender under emergency powers introduced during covid-19.

It has emerged that in 2014 the company took the government to court for awarding its flagship tax-free childcare policy contract to the French outsourcing giant, Atos, without a public procurement process.


So basically a "better give it to them else they'll sue us again".

Author:  citizenJA [ Mon 18 May, 2020 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

refitman wrote:
Morning all.
yep

Author:  AnatolyKasparov [ Mon 18 May, 2020 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Well, its very much the afternoon now ;)

Anything happening?

Author:  frog222 [ Mon 18 May, 2020 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

TechnicalEphemera 28m ago
“” Contact tracing. These cretins had ONE JOB.

For months they have been told it is the only way out of lockdown.

For 6 weeks they claimed it was their number one priority.

EPIC EPIC FAIL.

Couldn’t get an app becaus Dom wanted his mate to have the contract.

Couldn’t organise tracing because…. who knows

Ignored local authorities expertise because Hancock doesn’t like them as they aren’t his private mates.

We are late on everything except deaths, where we are top of the world (per capita).””
————————————————————-

Hiring people off the street to do tracing, while the Scots (WATO interview) and the local Frogs all use professionals, it's detective work after all !

High tide, 6pm :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My neighbour is doing my 200m lane with his flail thinggy !

Author:  frog222 [ Mon 18 May, 2020 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

MissPelling 2m ago

Hancock says Ashworth was wrong to criticise the involvement of the private sector in testing. He says he thought that wing of the Labour party had left the shadow cabinet.

Sounds rather like Hancock needs to watch his tone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Either an open goal, or yet another opportunity to "underplay" ...

Author:  AnatolyKasparov [ Mon 18 May, 2020 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Hancock really has got a lot worse as this crisis has gone on, he genuinely was semi-reasonable to begin with.

Author:  Willow904 [ Mon 18 May, 2020 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Hancock really has got a lot worse as this crisis has gone on, he genuinely was semi-reasonable to begin with.


He seemed to perform better in Johnson's absence. Perhaps it's the message that's gotten worse as much as the messenger. Though it's all relative. At his best he was still awful, just not quite as awful as some of the others.

Author:  frog222 [ Mon 18 May, 2020 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Courtesy of Fishgirl23 ---

The following is an damning read of the errors made by government in handling this pandemic as it appears in The Daily Telegraph (A E-P 12/5 ) :

Quote:
I have been silent on covid-19 for a while. There was little to be gained from harrying the Government once it abandoned the misadventure of herd immunity and was at lease trying to get a grip. Much of the belated media onslaught is reflexive gotcha-journalism (where were they in February when the mistakes were made?) or hides an ideological agenda.

But claims by both Downing Street and Public Health England and they “got it right” cannot be allowed to stand. Nor can the pretence that each stage of the containment policy is being fed out at just the right time and at just the right calibration under the Jupiterian guidance of behaviour theorists.

There was never anything to be gained from delaying the lockdown once the bushfire had slipped control due to lack of testing/tracing. Each three days of prevarication meant a doubling of the infection case load. It was to sink deeper into quagmire. Nor did the SAGE committee ever have sufficient grasp of the basic facts to fine-tune the timing, let alone to play God.

The facts will be out but it is hard to escape the conclusion that this secretive body – neither institutional fish nor fowl, with opaque responsibilities-gravely misjudged the speed of contagion long after the danger was obvious to virologists, immunologists, and epidemiologist across the world, and indeed to anybody paying attention.

Why does it make sense to impose a two-week quarantine on foreign arrivals at this late stage (excluding Ireland and France), rather than having done so when imported cases were first causing an explosion of infections in a virgin host community?

A Covid cardiologist at a top London hospital – friendly to Boris – has been so incensed by the daily charade of bogus omniscience that he vented his spleen in an email to me on Sunday night. It is a poignant indictment, so I pass along a few snippets.

Basically, every mistake that could have been made, was made. He likened the care home policy to the Siege of Caffa in 1346, that grim chapter of the Black Death when a Mongol army catapulted plague-ridden bodies over the walls.

“Our policy was to let the virus rip and then ‘cocoon the elderly’,” he wrote. “You don’t know whether to cry when you contrast that with what we actually did. We discharged known, suspected, and unknown cases into care homes which were unprepared, with no formal warning that the patients were infected, no testing available, and no PPE to prevent transmission. We actively seeded this into every population that was most vulnerable. We let these people die without palliation. The official policy was not to visit care homes – and they didn’t (and still don’t). So, after infecting them with a disease that causes an unpleasant ending, we denied our elders access to a doctor – denied GP visits – and denied admission to hospital. Simple things like fluids, withheld. Effective palliation like syringe drivers, withheld.

The public has yet to realise that the great quest for ventilators was worse than a red herring. The overuse of ventilators was itself killing people at a terrifying ratio and behind that lies another institutional failure.

“When the inquiry comes, it will show that many people died for lack of oxygen supply in hospitals, and this led to early intubation” writes the doctor. “Boris survived because they gave him oxygen. High flow oxygen wasn’t available as a treatment option for all patients.””


This is the protective arm of the government which Matt Hancock raved about. Let the inquiry begin.


I didn't know that intubation uses less oxygen , have an idea why but will check that .

The first reference I have for ventilators being over-used is from the 8th of April. Future analyses will show that some ICU's got that very wrong , but everyone was , and still is, learning about this new disease . Hospital protocols are fixed by the chiefs and must be obeyed, so let's just hope the chief in question for anyone we know is up with the latest info from around the world !

Author:  AnatolyKasparov [ Mon 18 May, 2020 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Yes, people are learning about this virus all the times and will have got things wrong. All we are really asking for is that those in charge are honest and open about that.

Author:  adam [ Mon 18 May, 2020 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Agency staff were spreading Covid-19 between care homes, PHE found in April

No shit! Who could ever have predicted such a possibility.

Today has not been a good day. It would appear I need to find a new job - not this second, but for next year. My school are being hopelessly legalistic and generalistic about this situation and just won't listento anything about union advice for exceptional circumstances.

Author:  adam [ Mon 18 May, 2020 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

frog222 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera 28m ago
“” Contact tracing. These cretins had ONE JOB.

For months they have been told it is the only way out of lockdown.

For 6 weeks they claimed it was their number one priority.

EPIC EPIC FAIL.

Couldn’t get an app becaus Dom wanted his mate to have the contract.

Couldn’t organise tracing because…. who knows

Ignored local authorities expertise because Hancock doesn’t like them as they aren’t his private mates.

We are late on everything except deaths, where we are top of the world (per capita).””



Tem will be along in a minute to disagree with him.

Author:  gilsey [ Mon 18 May, 2020 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

I'm sure the medics will have got some/many things wrong and learned from their mistakes, and equally sure most of them would be honest about it.

The people at the top of the NHS (where is Simon Stevens?) will have learned less and are less open.

As for the govt, I'm struggling to think of anything they've got right, so far.

Author:  gilsey [ Mon 18 May, 2020 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

adam wrote:

Today has not been a good day. It would appear I need to find a new job - not this second, but for next year. My school are being hopelessly legalistic and generalistic about this situation and just won't listento anything about union advice for exceptional circumstances.

Sorry to hear that.

Author:  citizenJA [ Mon 18 May, 2020 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

I'm sorry, adam. Today hasn't been a good day for me either.

Author:  frog222 [ Mon 18 May, 2020 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Yes, people are learning about this virus all the times and will have got things wrong. All we are really asking for is that those in charge are honest and open about that.


Exactly ! Some hospitals are probably going to be seen as having got their treatments plain WRONG , with deadly consequences, but that's emergency medicine in a once in a lifetime situation . ( Well we had AIDS and a few more, but not on this scale.)

If the hospital chiefs acted in good faith ... that's life, we can all get stuff wrong ?

BUT the DoH, PHE?, with the CQC's acquiescence , made the NHS shovel off something like 15000 bedblockers out of hospitals with zero information about those patients even having been tested positive .

Direct consequences --- very many deaths, and without humane palliation in many cases .

In care homes people are dying - while staff beg for help that never comes

SPECIAL REPORT: There were more than 4,000 coronavirus-related deaths in care homes up to April 24, according to the Care Quality Commission - now frontline workers have told the M.E.N. about the horrendous conditions they're operating under

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... n=sharebar

Author:  citizenJA [ Mon 18 May, 2020 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday 18th May 2020

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

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