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 Post subject: Wednesday 10th June 2020
PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 5:36 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 8:33 am 
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Like Mother’s Day, Colston Day was pure invention , the statue being erected in 1895 ( he died in 1721 )

https://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/my ... hin-myths/

The KKK were quicker off the mark, their statues of Confederate generals appearing in the early 1920’s !


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 8:35 am 
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Morning all.

Well, this is a little inconvenient to the "You can't just go around taking out things you don't like!" set.

Theft or vandalism of second Colston statue plaque 'may be justified' - Tory councillor

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... ue-1815967

Quote:
The regular attacks on the statue were cited by council chiefs as part of the reason why they propose a second plaque.

But Cllr Eddy appeared to advocate or support theft or vandalism against that official second plaque. He said he wanted to suggest that any plan to ‘unilaterally remove it might be justified’.

He added: "I have never been a believer in taking the law into one's own hands. However, if this partisan and nauseous plaque is approved, I can not find it in my heart to condemn anyone who damages or removes it,” he added.


:D

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 8:35 am 
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Seems like the BBC are still running with the theme that the government don't appear to have done any work on resolving the difficulties in getting children back to school. Victoria Derbyshire gave Tory MP Tom Hunt a pretty tough time on it this morning, trying to get him to give a concrete example of exactly what Gavin Williamson has done to substantiate the claim he's doing "everything he can". He couldn't come up with anything, preferring to try to blame unions with vague smears but couldn't give an actual name of a union leader he claimed told teachers not to engage with distance learning. He then moved on to Labour, who haven't been doing enough, apparently. Probably something to do with them not being in government, I suspect. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:19 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Seems like the BBC are still running with the theme that the government don't appear to have done any work on resolving the difficulties in getting children back to school. Victoria Derbyshire gave Tory MP Tom Hunt a pretty tough time on it this morning, trying to get him to give a concrete example of exactly what Gavin Williamson has done to substantiate the claim he's doing "everything he can". He couldn't come up with anything, preferring to try to blame unions with vague smears but couldn't give an actual name of a union leader he claimed told teachers not to engage with distance learning. He then moved on to Labour, who haven't been doing enough, apparently. Probably something to do with them not being in government, I suspect. :roll:

Three of my grandsons (6 to 13 ) are doing distance learning, and the parents are respectively distance-teaching in secondary collège and lycée. I cannot imagine a union calling a strike ! It's all Labour's fault for not giving Williamson 'concrete instructions ' telling him what to do. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:21 am 
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The grounding of air travel during the coronavirus pandemic could prompt a jobs crisis in British aviation on the scale of the coal mining industry’s collapse during the 1980s, a report has warned.

Putting ministers on notice for a surge in redundancies as airlines confront a future with fewer journeys made by plane even after the outbreak recedes, the New Economics Foundation (NEF) said at least 70,000 jobs in the wider aviation industry – including engineering, catering and duty free shopping – were at risk before the end of summer. Thousands of workers in the industry will have to retrain in other areas of the economy, it said.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... port-warns

Air travel is one of the biggest contributors to climate change so this has to be a good thing, though painful for the individuals concerned.
It's hard to see how any gradual programme of reducing it could have been politically acceptable anywhere.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:34 am 
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Andrew Neil
@afneil
Tho it’s unlikely to manifest itself at PMQs today, there is mounting unease, even anger, among Tory backbenchers and grassroots at what they perceive as indecisive, even incompetent leadership from Boris Johnson at this stage in the Covid crisis.

I can't decide on the appropriate emoji.

:sick: :roll: :wall: :fire: :flick:

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:53 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

Well, this is a little inconvenient to the "You can't just go around taking out things you don't like!" set.

Theft or vandalism of second Colston statue plaque 'may be justified' - Tory councillor

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... ue-1815967

Quote:
The regular attacks on the statue were cited by council chiefs as part of the reason why they propose a second plaque.

But Cllr Eddy appeared to advocate or support theft or vandalism against that official second plaque. He said he wanted to suggest that any plan to ‘unilaterally remove it might be justified’.

He added: "I have never been a believer in taking the law into one's own hands. However, if this partisan and nauseous plaque is approved, I can not find it in my heart to condemn anyone who damages or removes it,” he added.


:D


I must admit I didn't realise just how aggressively some imperialism apologists still defend those who lined their pockets on the backs of others, but I guess it shouldn't be a surprise really. The likes of Rees-Mogg are kind of still doing it, though in a new, more subtle form, so admitting it was wrong then is akin to admitting it's wrong now and the whole house of cards falls down.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 10:09 am 
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frog222 wrote:
Like Mother’s Day, Colston Day was pure invention , the statue being erected in 1895 ( he died in 1721 )

https://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/my ... hin-myths/

The KKK were quicker off the mark, their statues of Confederate generals appearing in the early 1920’s !


Apparently the powers that be didn't find it easy to raise funds for the Colston statue either, that might help explain why it was so unprepossessing.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 11:12 am 
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Apparently our death rate is an "astonishing achievement" according to Boris, yet we should not be making comparisons to other countries yet, it's too early. Get fecked.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 11:15 am 
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Starmer calls out Boris' lies about telephone conversations which never took place. Good.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 11:17 am 
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GetYou wrote:
Apparently our death rate is an "astonishing achievement" according to Boris, yet we should not be making comparisons to other countries yet, it's too early. Get fecked.


Thing is, that sort of feelgood boosterism is all he really knows.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 11:35 am 
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Apparently the US is a bastion of peace.

I must have imagined Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam etc.

I must lay off the mushrooms.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 11:42 am 
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Not exactly a "bastion of peace" domestically right now, either.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 11:47 am 
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GetYou wrote:
Starmer calls out Boris' lies about telephone conversations which never took place. Good.


I can't quite believe Johnson actually tried that lie again after it was generally outed last time as bullshit. And Starmer's comment about knowing Johnson likes to rely on pre-prepared catchphrases but could he answer the question was particularly brutal.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 1:04 pm 
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From the G live blog:

Quote:
Despite all talk of unease on the Tory benches (see 10.17am), not a peep emerged. The Black Lives Matters protests did come up, but only in a relatively perfunctory manner. And the Boris Johnson/Keir Starmer exchanges - normally the highlight - were inconclusive. Neither was particularly good.


Even when I disagree with Andrew Spartow, I can usually see where he's coming from but on this occasion it's difficult to believe we were even watching the same exchange. His as-it-happens write-up bears little relation to the PMQs I saw and his snap PMQs verdict is, quite frankly, astonishing. Johnson was the worst I have ever seen him. Ever. Even if Starmer didn't give a stellar performance (although I actually thought he was getting everything pretty much spot on today) the phrase "neither was particularly good" so downplays Johnson's shambling awfulness it can only be interpreted as an attempt to obscure the reality that our PM is simply not up to the job.

Sparrow was at least right to pick out the following, it's certainly significant, although he's a little out with his interpretation, I think:

Quote:
It was also interesting to see him use Starmer’s profession against him. Generally commentators have taken the view the Starmer’s lawyerly precision (we are not allowed call him “forensic” any more, the cliché police have ruled) is a bonus, but Johnson now seems to running the line that, because Starmer is a barrister, he will just say whatever is convenient to his case.


I wouldn't call it "interesting". It's worrying, almost sinister in the way he made unspoken insinuations with his "I think we all know about lawyers". Awkwardly phrased and delivered, it appeared to be a populist attempt to side with the common man against the establishment elite and the rule of law. It makes you wonder where this whole charade of Eton toffs speaking for "the people" is going to end. At least there's some honesty here, I suppose. For spivs and crooks like Johnson and Cummings, I guess the representative of law and justice really is their enemy.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 1:07 pm 
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What is the response btl to Sparrow's assessment?


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 1:23 pm 
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Quote:
Joe Twyman
@JoeTwyman
·
17m
NEW: An employment lawyer has gone through the details of Sonia Khan's dismissal and suggests 'Cummings could find himself jointly and severally liable for the compensation' and that it's unlikely Ms Khan will be 'claiming anything less than six figures'.
https://stevensdrake.com/articles/cummi ... oyment-law


Now that would be funny...

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 1:24 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
What is the response btl to Sparrow's assessment?


Lot's of agreement that Starmer was underwhelming, but then he does appear underwhelming the way the exchanges have been written and described in the live blog and I don't know if the commenters saw it for themselves or not. Similarly I was a bit shocked at just how shambling and incoherent Johnson appeared today but that doesn't come across on paper.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 1:29 pm 
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BoJo apparently used a few big words though, and that always impresses some people.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 1:57 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
BoJo apparently used a few big words though, and that always impresses some people.


Oh the bit about China, the bit where he got to go all Alpha Male, squaring up to the new "bad guy" as designated by Trump, that's the bit people liked :roll:

I think I might have mentioned before that the macho stuff doesn't register with me. Throw in the showing off with the use of the word "sinophile" and I just thought "twat" but, yeah, I guess some might have thought "what a guy", though how they manage to overlook the fact his normally carefully arranged unkempt hair now just looks unkempt and worry that someone who doesn't know how to comb his own hair is (failing) to run the country is beyond me.

Edited to add: the China bit wasn't part of the exchanges with Starmer though, where I still contend Starmer was solid and Johnson was very poor.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 2:32 pm 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 2:45 pm 
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https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/po ... #gsc.tab=0

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Email threat to football commentator Dan O'Hagan linked to House of Commons IP address
The House of Commons is investigating after a threatening email

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 3:39 pm 
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I don't understand the UK's incoherent COVID-19 testing strategy. Of course it's essential for people to know whether or not they have the disease. The sooner individuals find out, are isolated and effectively treated, the better. In terms of controlling a pandemic, it's essential finding out exactly where the virus is and how it's moving through the population. Testing like this isn't happening in the UK.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 3:46 pm 
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Testing in this way will be monetarily less expensive than letting the virus make its way through the population destroying lives and taking up time and resources fighting it blind. You'd think anyone concerned about the economics costs would know this.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 4:00 pm 
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Another long and winding thread...

https://twitter.com/DrSueOosthuizen/sta ... 7888829446

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 4:05 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:

She helps me. Her work helps me stay alive.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 4:13 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
I don't understand the UK's incoherent COVID-19 testing strategy. Of course it's essential for people to know whether or not they have the disease. The sooner individuals find out, are isolated and effectively treated, the better. In terms of controlling a pandemic, it's essential finding out exactly where the virus is and how it's moving through the population. Testing like this isn't happening in the UK.

They don't particularly care Citizen, they are not like us I'm glad to say . The objective is to get this through --

Boris Johnson's US trade deal will make Britain a paradise for disaster capitalists George Monbiot


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ed-chicken

Quote:
The neoliberal extremists who populate the front benches have long sought to rip down our public protections, rip down our public services, rip down everything that stands in the way of the most vicious form of capitalism. A trade deal with the US allows them to do so while disclaiming responsibility for the consequences. Once they have signed it, they can claim that, sadly, their hands are tied. They could say that unfortunately, the rules don’t allow us to maintain food standards and force us to open the NHS to competition. Perhaps mistakes were made during the negotiations but it’s a done deal now, enforced by legal instruments, and there’s nothing we can do. They know they could never obtain public consent for these policies. A US trade deal would impose them without consent.

Even parliamentary consent is unnecessary. The trade bill, which has now reached the committee stage in the House of Commons, makes no provision for parliamentary scrutiny of any deal. Parliament has no legal right under this bill to debate or vote on a trade deal, or even to know what it contains. The bill also grants the government Henry VIII powers to change the law on trade agreements without parliamentary approval. The governments of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are granted no formal role in negotiating or approving trade treaties. In other words, nothing is being left to chance. This is not democracy. This is elective dictatorship.

To make matters worse, the US is likely to insist that the deal is enforced by an offshore tribunal, which allows corporations to sue governments if domestic law affects their “future anticipated profits”. This mechanism has been used all over the world to punish nations for laws their parliaments have passed. It ensures that, over time, legislation everywhere has to be tailored to the demands of corporate power. Far from taking back control, a trade deal on these lines with the US involves a massive renunciation of sovereign power.

The government knows that accepting such a deal means no deal with the EU. US food rules are incompatible with EU standards. In the leaked documents, US officials remark that “there would be all to play for in a no-deal situation”. I suspect our government sees it the same way.

The pigheaded obstructionism of the UK in the current EU talks is at stark odds with its willingness to prostrate itself before US power. Dominic Cummings says he intends to stay in his post as adviser at No 10 for the next six months. In other words, he will stay for long enough to ensure that the transition period for leaving the EU is not extended, making a no-deal Brexit more likely.

Just as Donald Trump seeks to erase Barack Obama’s legacy, Boris Johnson and Cummings seek to erase Clement Attlee’s much deeper legacy. It’s not about sovereignty. It’s not about taking back control. It’s not about British values or British autonomy. It’s about locking deregulation and the demolition of public services in place, by means that cannot be challenged by either people or parliament. The combination of a no-deal Brexit and a coercive US trade agreement will allow the government to rip down a wide range of rules and protections, creating a paradise for the disaster capitalists funding the party, and hell for the rest of us. They intend to pursue this agenda regardless of the pandemic, regardless of a food standards petition that has already gained 800,000 signatures, regardless of the economic and political harm it might do. This is their game, and we must use every democratic means to stop it.


The dismantling/complete neglect of a worldclass public health system has been going on for ten years, and wasting a few £100 millions and losing a few hundred or thousand human lives on cobbling together a private sector replacement is collateral cost .

Sorry about that .


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 4:21 pm 
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PMQ's https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4 ... 350f9610a9

To compare with the reports :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 5:27 pm 
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frog222 wrote:


Watching it again I can see where I got the shambolic impression from. The way he was pivoting back and forth to look over his shoulder constantly was weird but I guess it was supposed to convey a sense of support from the backbenches. I may also have paid too much attention to what he was saying rather than the swaggering way in which he was saying it, hence my misplaced impression he was talking utter shite. The "you can't trust them" comment about the legal profession still comes across as "from one crook to another" though, but maybe that's just me.

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 5:58 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
frog222 wrote:

Watching it again I can see where I got the shambolic impression from. The way he was pivoting back and forth to look over his shoulder constantly was weird but I guess it was supposed to convey a sense of support from the backbenches. I may also have paid too much attention to what he was saying rather than the swaggering way in which he was saying it, hence my misplaced impression he was talking utter shite. The "you can't trust them" comment about the legal profession still comes across as "from one crook to another" though, but maybe that's just me.

Willow -- he talked shite alright :) I jotted down my impressions, but since my writing hand was the paralysed one I have trouble deciphering the scrawl !

Quote:
S--Implementing WHEN, the Lammy and Windrush Reports ?
J- says its beginning … (yeah,but how much . S will be back I’m sure.)
S — PublicHealthEngland on BAME deaths, and measures to correct ? (J starts shouting)
S –Numbers of dead, 40+k, 50+k, 63k … no pride in those figures ? ( J shouts …)
S -- ” Everyone can see those figures, longterm consequence of govt’s “inaudible” @ c 12.11mins
S– ” A month ago National Task Force offer , no reply ” ?
J– LIES, says they talked on that modern device the telephone …
Starmer — , sounds VERY angry, slams back at him for lying —
NEVER DISCUSSED, He knows it, he’s FLAILING TRYING TO BLAME OTHERS, it was a month ago today”

J — something about S being a lawyer !!
S — “Rehearsed attack lines”

S — Lastly ,” meal vouchers for children over the summer, Wales is doing it “???
J– x£mns to local authorities, blabla .

S — If not in England too, ” Just plain wrong.


I wouldn’t call it a draw . One is cool, looking straight across the dispatch box, the other even shouts a few times, blusters almost continuously, and very often turns to look left and right, as though for support ?

Shifty fucker .

I'm looking forward to the Crace :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 6:32 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
frog222 wrote:


Watching it again I can see where I got the shambolic impression from. The way he was pivoting back and forth to look over his shoulder constantly was weird... .
(cJA edit)

CASTING THE RUNES
by M.R. James
https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/james-runes/james-runes-00-h.html


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 6:46 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... appearance

CRACE


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 6:53 pm 
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Quote:
Matt Hancock clueless about confidentiality breach at his own GP surgery
Babylon Health, a telemedicine company that enables people to have GP consultations over video chat, admitted to the breach on Tuesday night. A software error in the company’s app had led to patients being presented with recordings of other users’ consultations with their doctors. At least three patients were affected, the company said, and none of them had viewed the videos.

Speaking at the virtual CogX festival, the health secretary, Matt Hancock, said he was unaware of the data breach, but that it did not affect his views on the value of private partnerships within the NHS.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:12 pm 
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This is interesting - a statue that was removed and never put back...in 1868.

https://www.onlondon.co.uk/lewis-baston ... sh-square/

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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:16 pm 
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No one should be made to accept conditions others wouldn't tolerate for themselves or for their families.


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:17 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2020 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
This is interesting - a statue that was removed and never put back...in 1868.

https://www.onlondon.co.uk/lewis-baston ... sh-square/


Good piece, one of many annoying things in this "debate" is the idea nothing like this has ever happened before.


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