Wednesday 1st July 2020

[refitman]

Morning all.

[tinyclanger2]

Hello

[tinyclanger2]

Reflecting on stuff, I completely and utterly understand the need to maintain/create new jobs for people impacted by corona job wise - but is reverting back to 2019 levels of flying really the way to go? Given that the entire world is impacted economically by this ****er (scuse the language) should we be thinking of a different economic model than the current one that patently doesn’t work for a planet with too many people scraping a living as it is?

[tinyclanger2]

Build Build Build
Can we get any more embarrassed?

[RogerOThornhill]

Morning all.

In some ways I feel sorry for cabinet ministers having to go radio/TV and have to defend that pitiful excuse for an announcement yesterday by their leader.

Nick Robinson was having a great time ripping Alok Sharma to shreds earlier.

And High Street conversions without planning permission? I can see that converting shops to residential (or back to residential in the cases where Victorian houses were given a shopfront in the 20th century) sounds like a good idea but not sure it's wise to allow it without planning permission.

And what if you're quite happily living in a residential area and the chap next door converts his house into a shop or garage without the possibility of you raising objections?

[RogerOThornhill]

In other news I see that Policy Exchange have weighed in on the "removing statues is erasing history" line by setting up a commission. I follow a great number of historians on that Twitter and there was a good deal of mirth and chortling going on yesterday. This is good.

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And here's the PE press release. Those polling questions really are something else...

https://policyexchange.org.uk/press-rel ... y-project/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And take a look at the panel and see which way you think they'll go.

[RogerOThornhill]

And by pure coincidence, tonight's Moral Maze is about Groupthink...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kfrd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Combative, provocative and engaging live debate chaired by Michael Buerk. With Melanie Philips, Giles Fraser, Matthew Taylor and Anne McElvoy. #moralmaze

[adam]

In other news I see that Policy Exchange have weighed in on the "removing statues is erasing history" line by setting up a commission. I follow a great number of historians on that Twitter and there was a good deal of mirth and chortling going on yesterday. This is good.

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And here's the PE press release. Those polling questions really are something else...

https://policyexchange.org.uk/press-rel ... y-project/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And take a look at the panel and see which way you think they'll go.

2. Examples where a publicly available resource – a curriculum, website, textbook, museum exhibit or similar – displays a one-sided or distorted view of history.
3. Examples where academic freedom appears to be under threat, perhaps because historical subjects are being neglected, or avoided altogether by teaching staff because they are deemed too controversial or challenging.

Well yes, hence campaigns to de-colonise a range of university programmes of study and to open up the literary and historical canon to non-white and non-mail authors, artists and figures. That's the kind of thing they're looking for here, isn't it?

(Interesting learning point - canon or cannon? Cannon = longer word = big gun).

[Willow904]

I thought Michael Gove set much of the history curriculum when he was at Education. Or was that just English? Anyway, accusing teachers of "neglecting" historical subjects is absurd. It doesn't matter what you choose to teach, the vast majority of history will remain untouched. 5000 odd years of written global history ffs!

[RogerOThornhill]

Funnily enough I went back to Gove's speech about the history curriculum.

My first attempt as Education Secretary at a new history curriculum was deeply flawed, but the challenge it provoked improved on everything that had gone before.

Yes to the first bit but I recall it was defended by his hangers-on at the time.

To the second?

Eventually, Gove was forced to withdraw his proposed curriculum, introducing instead a far more wide-ranging, far less prescriptive programme that looked in most respects pretty much like the one he had tried to replace.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n17 ... nted-dalek" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Evans article is interesting - guess who Gove sent to see him in Cambridge...

And the irony of PE wanting history taught to GCSE when its co-founder was in a position to make that happen.

Also there's been a fair number of cases where academies have been criticised for lengthening KS4 to 3 years - thus some pupils might only do history at secondary school for 2 years.

[gilsey]

Reflecting on stuff, I completely and utterly understand the need to maintain/create new jobs for people impacted by corona job wise - but is reverting back to 2019 levels of flying really the way to go? Given that the entire world is impacted economically by this ****er (scuse the language) should we be thinking of a different economic model than the current one that patently doesn’t work for a planet with too many people scraping a living as it is?

I'm sorry for people losing their jobs at Easyjet and Airbus etc but when they say air traffic won't return to pre-virus levels for 4 years, I think it would be much better if it never did.

[howsillyofme1]

Good morning

In reply to Gilsey from last night is no, I have never been to NZ and dioubt I ever will now. I am not sure what the reklevance is though as I am justpointing out that there are risks to their approach and we shoulod not just jump to praise them as CV-19 is not the only risk that countries face and treating it as the only thing that counts is not necessarily the best choice

If they can manage economically and culturally behind closed doors then that is good for them but it doesn't mean it should be seen as an example elsewhere

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ain-future" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also am disturbed by some of the rhetoric that is coming out.

The Scots are getting advised tio have a similar approach to NZ and there are calls to block entires ito the country - is that what we are advocating as being the right thing to do? The only metric is 0 cases of Covid no matter the impact elsewhere

As an aside I wonder what the longer term impact of the closing of borders will be - the EU has been een to open them internally and externally even as much as they can whilst other countries have tried closing them up. I also think that accepting closed borders for a long time will then set up the precedent of preventing immigration from areas wth disease - something Farage suggested a few years ago but would now be more likely to gain favour.

I am clear on where I would go now - follow a Germany (and others) by reducing cases, setting up a good public health response to deal with those remaining, open borders based on the risk and a calmer national discussion.

If you want to the UK to be modelled on NZ as some are vocally advocating then that is fine

[AnatolyKasparov]

Good morning

In reply to Gilsey from last night is no, I have never been to NZ and dioubt I ever will now. I am not sure what the reklevance is though as I am justpointing out that there are risks to their approach and we shoulod not just jump to praise them as CV-19 is not the only risk that countries face and treating it as the only thing that counts is not necessarily the best choice

There are risks to every approach and pointing that out is not just fine but necessary.

However, this country has more in common with the "laissez-faire" disasters Brazil and USA (even if not *as* bad) than it does with NZ. It might actually be worth looking at its bigger neighbour - Australia seems to have dealt with it quite well despite having a right wing government.

[gilsey]

I'm not in any way advocating NZ's approach for other countries, just pointing out that NZ is different. To state the obvious, it's not like Europe where we're all on each other's doorsteps.

Tourism is a big part of their economy and I've no doubt Ardern will come under increasing pressure on that front as time goes on, but other than that I see it as a viable approach for them.

To link it to something discussed above, international travel to/from NZ involves getting on a plane, and in many cases the longest of long-haul as they're not great fans of their nearest neighbours. Ardern may have considered that greater insularity may be a good long-term strategy and seeing an opportunity to get people used to the idea.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I'm not in any way advocating NZ's approach for other countries, just pointing out that NZ is different. To state the obvious, it's not like Europe where we're all on each other's doorsteps.

Tourism is a big part of their economy and I've no doubt Ardern will come under increasing pressure on that front as time goes on, but other than that I see it as a viable approach for them.

To link it to something discussed above, international travel to/from NZ involves getting on a plane, and in many cases the longest of long-haul as they're not great fans of their nearest neighbours. Ardern may have considered that greater insularity may be a good long-term strategy and seeing an opportunity to get people used to the idea.

I know there is a rivalry, but this seems a bit......strong?

[GetYou]

Tom Loosemore on the Universal Credit Committee with a very good point "The policy elite write cheques that the operational and technical people have to cash" (I paraphrase).

[edit: I had intended to write more as this was quite a revealing insight into how UC is not working, but got interrupted]

[GetYou]

Here's what I heard at PMQs

Starmer: "I spoke to the mayor of Leicester this morning and Boris, you are a liar"

Johnson "Our track and trace program is reaching huge numbers of people, almost a quarter of those we need to reach"

I'm waiting for Sparrow to claim at least a draw for Boris due to his "builders/blockers doers/ditherers" bullshit.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I'm waiting for Sparrow to claim at least a draw for Boris due to his "builders/blockers doers/ditherers" bullshit.

Pre-prepared soundbite from the PM shocker?

[adam]

270towin have their 2020 electoral college simulator up and running already. I am treating this as a meaningless game - really - and have no expectations at all about November, and won't have any until January, but still this was fun, first time I ran the simulation.

Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 12.54.16.png (144.41 KiB) Viewed 9090 times

[gilsey]

Here's what I heard at PMQs

Starmer: "I spoke to the mayor of Leicester this morning and Boris, you are a liar"

Johnson "Our track and trace program is reaching huge numbers of people, almost a quarter of those we need to reach"

I'm waiting for Sparrow to claim at least a draw for Boris due to his "builders/blockers doers/ditherers" bullshit.

He didn't.

to have any bite, a slogan has to be at least half-true and a prime minister who has repeatedly been accused of dithering over coronavirus (most importantly over lockdown in March; now over Leicester) really needs to cultivate a better line of attack.

[GetYou]

Which makes a nice change. Sometimes I wonder if we have watched the same thing, even though I understand that he is coming from a very different angle than me.

[gilsey]

I know there is a rivalry, but this seems a bit......strong?

It wasn't meant to, and I don't think rivalry's the right word either. More an absence of overt neighbourliness than actual animosity, I got the impression they don't feel they have much in common.
That doesn't stop many going to Oz for work.
Years ago I worked with an accountant who was fond of the outdoor life, hiking, canoeing, skiing etc, he went to NZ to work for a year with a view to moving there permanently but it was too much of a backwater for him. Business/economic links with other countries weren't strong.

Important to say that it's a very long time since we were there and the rapid expansion of 'globalisation' may have changed things.

[AnatolyKasparov]

There is certainly a big rivalry when it comes to sporting matters.

[RogerOThornhill]

So it turns out that the DT article about the statue of Constantive in York Minster being "looked at after complaints" is a pile of steaming cack.

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Who'd have thunk it eh?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Anyway, a "review" is exactly that - nothing more and nothing less.

[gilsey]

There is certainly a big rivalry when it comes to sporting matters.

I hadn't thought about sport at all! How funny, you're quite right of course.

[RogerOThornhill]

There is certainly a big rivalry when it comes to sporting matters.

I hadn't thought about sport at all! How funny, you're quite right of course.

But the odd thing is that after a single Test Match in 1945-46 they didn't play another until 1973-74 when they played 3 in Aus and 3 in NZ.

When I was more of a cricket stats geek than I am now back in the day I always thought it very strange considering how close they are.

[frog222]

Here's what I heard at PMQs
Starmer: "I spoke to the mayor of Leicester this morning and Boris, you are a liar"
Johnson "Our track and trace program is reaching huge numbers of people, almost a quarter of those we need to reach"
I'm waiting for Sparrow to claim at least a draw for Boris due to his "builders/blockers doers/ditherers" bullshit.

He didn't.

to have any bite, a slogan has to be at least half-true and a prime minister who has repeatedly been accused of dithering over coronavirus (most importantly over lockdown in March; now over Leicester) really needs to cultivate a better line of attack.

LEICESTER Free to Read -- https://www.ft.com/content/301c847c-a31 ... 66933d423a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Surely there must be some more mileage in all that Pillar2 stuff ?

[AnatolyKasparov]

There is certainly a big rivalry when it comes to sporting matters.

I hadn't thought about sport at all! How funny, you're quite right of course.

But the odd thing is that after a single Test Match in 1945-46 they didn't play another until 1973-74 when they played 3 in Aus and 3 in NZ.

When I was more of a cricket stats geek than I am now back in the day I always thought it very strange considering how close they are.

Apparently the 1940s match was only granted Test status some time later, given NZ made less than 100 runs in their two innings they may have had mixed feelings on this

[RogerOThornhill]

This is bizarre. And scandalous.

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Read the reply to Stella Creasy's written question...

[gilsey]

When I was more of a cricket stats geek than I am now back in the day I always thought it very strange considering how close they are.

I think that illustrates my point - they're not close, just a lot closer to each other than they are to other English-speaking countries.
It's a 3 hour flight from Sydney to Auckland, don't know how long that took on a ship before mass air travel came along.

Another example, Australia's indigenous population was there for 50,000 years. The Maori settled NZ from Polynesia less than 1000 years ago.
Sorry for the history lesson but it is quite interesting how different the countries are.

[frog222]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ack-a-mole" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

boz-the-bluster-gets-hammered-in-pmqs-whack-a-mole

Just heard the Jersey Radio news in my car ... SKS skewering Bozo on those 'lost' corona-positive figures for Leicester .

[gilsey]

This is bizarre. And scandalous.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Read the reply to Stella Creasy's written question...

Good for Creasy to bring it to the House, but Independent Sage have been banging on about this for weeks.

edit - I see Creasy's question's dated 2 June, Labour haven't done a great deal with it since then, have they? Or maybe they tried and the likes of Nick Cohen didn't pick up on it.

[frog222]

This is bizarre. And scandalous.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Read the reply to Stella Creasy's written question...

Good for Creasy to bring it to the House, but Independent Sage have been banging on about this for weeks.
edit - I see Creasy's question's dated 2 June, Labour haven't done a great deal with it since then, have they? Or maybe they tried and the likes of Nick Cohen didn't pick up on it.

Tell me more, it was news to me until yesterday when the FT broke it . There appears also to be something about the DataProtectionAct, just to confuse matters .

[frog222]

[

Important to say that it's a very long time since we were there and the rapid expansion of 'globalisation' may have changed things.[

In 1972 at 10pm, I walked the length of Queen St in Auckland , and saw two people, one a young copper, another the transvestite blonde he pointed out to me as she/he entered the one and only 'club' .
In 2009 Queen St was a cosmopolitan tourist hive of activity at midnight, when we went off to sleep in our 'Backpackers' . Many Asian, but I didnt count. NOW, NZ has thousands of unemployed in the 'hospitality sector' .

Weeell , capitalism has expanded from taking in each others' washing to doing the same for tourists .
WHAT could possibly go wrong ?

[citizenJA]

Good evening, everyone.

[gilsey]

Tell me more, it was news to me until yesterday when the FT broke it . There appears also to be something about the DataProtectionAct, just to confuse matters .

12 May
Exclusive: Test data from commercial labs going into ‘black hole’

29 May

Ian Campbell
@Ian_Campbell_
These are the locations of new UK #covid19 cases given by
@PHE_uk They don't publish the locations of around 64% of cases because the tests are carried out by "commercial partners".
To open schools etc, we need to know where new cases are.

You have to ask why, in a pandemic, a govt would set up a testing system which wouldn't allow the results to be fed back to local health teams without falling foul of privacy legislation.