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 Post subject: Monday 27th July 2020
PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 6:07 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 8:57 am 
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Switched off Toady exchange between Robinson and Nick T-S this morning when R ohso-cleverly questioned the latter’s Testing Tracing & Isolating proposal for those returning from Spain : —

” Ah, but what about asymptomatic people ?”

Question. Was Robinson demonstrating his own abysmal ignorance or cunningly testing to see if Thomas-Symonds was bloody ignorant/still half-asleep/whatever ?

Did anybody hear the answer ?

PS Dereliction of duty i know, but I just couldn't take any more Stupid .


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 10:50 am 
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PS -- I guess there are people who are infected but it's not developed enough to show on tests (?) , plus the acknowledged rate of false negatives from ineffective swabbing and possibly other reasons !
But I did think the Tories were now capable of testing hundreds of thousands of people ... so why not also do so a few days after a return to UK ?


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 10:55 am 
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This saved me 28 minutes, minus the reading-time !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l7pn

My Name Is Fozia
Quote:
Fozia was surprised to be bombarded with fake news as she worked on the covid wards and even more shocked to discover that some of the messages were coming from prominent people in the local community. They accused doctors of forcing people to sign Do Not Resuscitate forms, suggested that Covid-19 didn’t actually exist and one even told her she would be: “held responsible in the court of Allah for the deaths of these people, for negligence in this life, and life is very short.”

“I’ve been sent a message saying that NHS workers are working on bonuses, that we’re taking money for putting Covid on death certificates and we are essentially taking money for life. And I think that’s a really cruel thing to say to someone,” said Fozia.

She talks to a patient on the hospital’s intensive care unit, Mohammed Azeem, who says he deliberately put off coming to hospital because he’d been hearing the claims on social media. By the time an ambulance was called he was dangerously ill and had to be placed straight on a ventilator. His life hung in the balance for weeks and his mother died before he regained consciousness. He says he has realised the dangers of fake news and wants to help alert others.

As part of her investigation Fozia challenges some of those behind the conspiracy theories which are so prevalent online. She speaks to the anti-5G campaigner, Mark Steel, who says that no one is safe from the alleged impact of 5G and the latest electromagnetic wave induced pandemic. She also hears from a hospital worker who admits to following the conspiracy theories and siding with them even in light of the impact she sees on the wards and her medical training.

In the African community the fear is prevalent in a group of mothers she meets: they are so worried that even if a vaccine became available they wouldn’t think about taking it. One woman tells her that covid-19 is a device being used to eradicate different ethnic groups and that no one is safe. The higher death rate amongst the BAME community is just further evidence that a cleansing policy of some kind is in operation.

Fozia laments the problems fake news is causing on the wards at her hospital, the Bradford Royal Infirmary, which serves a very diverse community. Her colleague, Dr Sam Khan, shares a video his parents have seen circulating on major news channels in Pakistan. It purports to show how vaccines distributed by Bill Gates involve secret microchips. Dr Khan believes the fears were partly fuelled by the hospital’s justifiable policy of not allowing visitors at the start of the pandemic.

In Accident and Emergency Fozia chats to Dr Dave Greenhorn and Sister Emma Clinton, who recently saw a patient too ill to save. Following his death from covid-19 his children turned on them, accusing medical staff of giving their father a lethal injection. For Emma and Dave it was a harrowing moment and it really hit home how difficult the task ahead is. Even publicising the good news stories and focusing on patients who get better and go home does not detract from the widespread fear.

Producer: Sue Mitchell Presented by Dr Fozia Hayat

In the olden days, not that long ago, Toady had a 'Running order' in text on the home page, where one could look up the name of an interviewee, the timing to listen again, etc. Money-saving, or what ?


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 11:04 am 
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Good morefternoon, all.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 11:31 am 
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Morning all.

First swim since the lockdown and it was...hard work. Only 6 of us in 3 lanes.

Commons Speaker Lindsay Hoyle 'worried' by No 10 TV briefings plans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53533809

Quote:
Speaking to the BBC's Carolyn Quinn, Sir Lindsay said Parliament should be the place in which MPs and the public found out what was happening.

"You know the worry I've had - that statements should be made to the House first," he said. "Once you've made that statement, by all means go and have a press conference. But do it after, not before.

"If there's something new to come out and you want to tell the world, tell Parliament and let the world watch it from Parliament's eyes."


Quite. Those wanting us to "take back control" ought to be asked whether this was what they meant...

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 11:34 am 
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Though bringing this sort of thing more into the open is in itself a good thing (rather than the likes of Laura K and Pesto being obedient factotums for off the record Cummings burblings)


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 12:24 pm 
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Indoor Swimming ??????????

Eldest grandson and his father are in the water though it's blowing half a gale !

Of to the beach .


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:05 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Good morefternoon, all.

ditto
:rock:

just a quick visit before chores, everyone
Quote:
A pet cat has tested positive for coronavirus, the government has said. It is the first case of an animal in the UK having the virus.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... 9a03a90e25
I was unprepared for how sad I feel about this


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:12 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
---
Commons Speaker Lindsay Hoyle 'worried' by No 10 TV briefings plans

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53533809
Quote:
Speaking to the BBC's Carolyn Quinn, Sir Lindsay said Parliament should be the place in which MPs and the public found out what was happening.

"You know the worry I've had - that statements should be made to the House first," he said. "Once you've made that statement, by all means go and have a press conference. But do it after, not before.

"If there's something new to come out and you want to tell the world, tell Parliament and let the world watch it from Parliament's eyes."
Quite. Those wanting us to "take back control" ought to be asked whether this was what they meant...
(cJA edit)
Hoyle's style gravely subdued
Bercow's tempestuously ferocious

please excuse the formatting error
I've fixed it now, I hope


Last edited by citizenJA on Mon 27 Jul, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:14 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Indoor Swimming ??????????

Eldest grandson and his father are in the water though it's blowing half a gale !

Of to the beach .
the chlorine kills virus


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:16 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Though bringing this sort of thing more into the open is in itself a good thing (rather than the likes of Laura K and Pesto being obedient factotums for off the record Cummings burblings)

I'm glad Hoyle did this.
I've not seen or heard him.
Was he effective?


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:23 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ventilator
I want to know more about how Vietnam kept it's COVID-19 infection rate so low and have had zero mortalities.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:24 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/27/dont-be-blase-warns-covid-19-patient-after-months-on-ventilator
I want to know more about how Vietnam kept it's COVID-19 infection rate so low and have had zero mortalities.

Fascinating story
I recommend reading this one


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 1:31 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
My Name Is Fozia
that we’re taking money for putting Covid on death certificates

I heard this from my hairdresser last week, her husband works in the NHS and he knows.
He should know better, imo.
(He's an electrician)

When I went before lockdown I got the 'CV was invented in a lab in China to get rid of their old people' one. When I asked why they'd been so efficient at stopping it then, needless to say she didn't have an answer.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 2:02 pm 
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I don't know whether to recommend people to read this, it's, er, interesting.

Why Boris Johnson keeps on winning

Quote:
why have Johnson’s voters stayed so loyal?

Because the shit hasn't hit the fan yet?

Quote:
What unites Boris Johnson’s voters is not so much their economic experience, as their values. They prioritise the nation and the national community. They prefer stability over change. And they favour continuity over disruption and discontinuity.

So they'll love Brexit when it actually happens then. :roll:

Quote:
Mrs Thatcher who, like Johnson, tapped into a much broader coalition by expressing her belief in Britain and the British people. Thatcher, like Johnson, made mistakes.

Thatcher made mistakes, Johnson does it deliberately. IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 2:37 pm 
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The "shock doctrine". Keep people reeling. Don't allow dissent time to build and coalesce against any particular action by constantly bombarding people with squirrels & dead cats.

Thatcher worked hard, in comparison, at constructing a persuasive narrative to convince voters to support her intentions, re privatisation etc. When she failed to convince the public of the merits of the poll tax, she failed full stop.

Johnson isn't really attempting to persuade in the same way. He uses his friends in the media to create demand for policies he then champions. And if one gambit doesn't work he just moves on to the next. There is no obvious way to "fail" at such a cynical, unambitious approach. I'm not sure there's an obvious way to "win" though, either. It may well be a question of how much damage he does to the Tory party in the process before the country tires of his well worn, clownish act.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 3:23 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
I don't know whether to recommend people to read this, it's, er, interesting.

Why Boris Johnson keeps on winning

Quote:
why have Johnson’s voters stayed so loyal?

Because the shit hasn't hit the fan yet?

Quote:
What unites Boris Johnson’s voters is not so much their economic experience, as their values. They prioritise the nation and the national community. They prefer stability over change. And they favour continuity over disruption and discontinuity.

So they'll love Brexit when it actually happens then. :roll:

Quote:
Mrs Thatcher who, like Johnson, tapped into a much broader coalition by expressing her belief in Britain and the British people. Thatcher, like Johnson, made mistakes.

Thatcher made mistakes, Johnson does it deliberately. IMO.


Ah, its Badwin.

Seeing he was the author was quite enough.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 4:43 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
I don't know whether to recommend people to read this, it's, er, interesting.

Why Boris Johnson keeps on winning

Quote:
why have Johnson’s voters stayed so loyal?

Because the shit hasn't hit the fan yet?

Quote:
What unites Boris Johnson’s voters is not so much their economic experience, as their values. They prioritise the nation and the national community. They prefer stability over change. And they favour continuity over disruption and discontinuity.

So they'll love Brexit when it actually happens then. :roll:

Quote:
Mrs Thatcher who, like Johnson, tapped into a much broader coalition by expressing her belief in Britain and the British people. Thatcher, like Johnson, made mistakes.

Thatcher made mistakes, Johnson does it deliberately. IMO.


Once you see the racist, lying, corrupt, misogynistic shitbag for what he really is, it's hard to unsee it and view Johnson as others do. If, indeed, they genuinely do view him as anything other than a grubby little spiv who champions tax dodgers and grifters. He's Del Boy, without the nice bits. A con man. And boy, do the British public enjoy being conned. "Get your world beating track and trace system here, genuine German-quality parts but for a fraction of the price".

By the time the wheels come off, he'll be long gone.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
gilsey wrote:
I don't know whether to recommend people to read this, it's, er, interesting.

Why Boris Johnson keeps on winning

Quote:
why have Johnson’s voters stayed so loyal?

Because the shit hasn't hit the fan yet?

Quote:
What unites Boris Johnson’s voters is not so much their economic experience, as their values. They prioritise the nation and the national community. They prefer stability over change. And they favour continuity over disruption and discontinuity.

So they'll love Brexit when it actually happens then. :roll:

Quote:
Mrs Thatcher who, like Johnson, tapped into a much broader coalition by expressing her belief in Britain and the British people. Thatcher, like Johnson, made mistakes.

Thatcher made mistakes, Johnson does it deliberately. IMO.


Once you see the racist, lying, corrupt, misogynistic shitbag for what he really is, it's hard to unsee it and view Johnson as others do. If, indeed, they genuinely do view him as anything other than a grubby little spiv who champions tax dodgers and grifters. He's Del Boy, without the nice bits. A con man. And boy, do the British public enjoy being conned. "Get your world beating track and trace system here, genuine German-quality parts but for a fraction of the price".

By the time the wheels come off, he'll be long gone.


Some of them, mostly a) English and b) older. No surprise they form the bulk of the readership for our "world beating" newspapers.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 5:17 pm 
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Johnson may keep on winning but if you look at London, there is no way that a Tory will be elected as mayor which is why they're desperately trying to think of ways to abolish the post. People tend to realise with him that there really is nothing of any substance, just eye-catching (and costly) gimmicks.

The comparisons with Thatcher are surface-level - for all her faults, and yes she did u-turn (quietly) on some matters but she did have something behind her to back up her beliefs. Johnson has none - he's a sophist, capable of arguing for one case or the opposite at the drop of a hat. That story about him writing two articles - one leave, one remain - is no one-off.

And the picture of him and Gove looking really crestfallen the morning after was a "Shit - what have we done. We could have easily accepted defeat with a good grace and everyone would forget in time. But now we have to get on and do it"

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 5:54 pm 
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Lighthearted Crace -- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -from-hell

Quote:
"" Mr Shapps said in a statement: "Thousands of people have seen their holidays disrupted or cancelled thanks to the necessary emergency imposition of quarantine restrictions on Spain.

"I have been in constant contact with officials and industry representatives since I arrived in Spain on Saturday afternoon, when I received the data and decided with colleagues to make the difficult decision to introduce quarantine.

"However I think it is right to get back to work in the UK as soon as possible in order to help handle the situation. ""


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-22425055

Honestly, what the hell can he conceivably do to help people afflicted with unpaid quarantine awaiting the tender mercies of the DWP and Universal Credit ?


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 6:11 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Johnson may keep on winning but if you look at London, there is no way that a Tory will be elected as mayor which is why they're desperately trying to think of ways to abolish the post. People tend to realise with him that there really is nothing of any substance, just eye-catching (and costly) gimmicks.

The comparisons with Thatcher are surface-level - for all her faults, and yes she did u-turn (quietly) on some matters but she did have something behind her to back up her beliefs. Johnson has none - he's a sophist, capable of arguing for one case or the opposite at the drop of a hat. That story about him writing two articles - one leave, one remain - is no one-off.

And the picture of him and Gove looking really crestfallen the morning after was a "Shit - what have we done. We could have easily accepted defeat with a good grace and everyone would forget in time. But now we have to get on and do it"


They may not have really wanted to win, but the leave campaign was taken over by those - like Banks, Cummings and Farage - who actually did.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 8:17 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:

Ah, its Badwin.

Seeing he was the author was quite enough.

Indeed.

I wasn't sure why it caught my attention but eventually worked out that when anyone compares Johnson to Thatcher, it makes me feel like sticking up for her.
An unfamiliar and uncomfortable feeling.
Strange times.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 8:41 pm 
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747 new UK COVID-19 cases as of 26 July 2020
according to the website below

https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/cases


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 8:54 pm 
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Lots of "capacity" , but ................ ?

https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/testing


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 9:33 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:

Ah, its Badwin.

Seeing he was the author was quite enough.

Indeed.

I wasn't sure why it caught my attention but eventually worked out that when anyone compares Johnson to Thatcher, it makes me feel like sticking up for her.
An unfamiliar and uncomfortable feeling.
Strange times.


Though we shouldn't forget how bad things were under "Maggie" at times, especially her ever more insane final years as PM.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 9:49 pm 
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Quote:
Downing Street today dismissed reports that the Government is planning to force all over-40s to pay more tax to fund their social care.

The Prime Minister's Official Spokesman said it was 'not true that we are considering this policy'.

According to the Fail.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 11:26 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Lots of "capacity" , but ................ ?

https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/testing
ramping up
believe in the capacity and you will be healed
amen


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 11:26 pm 
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goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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