Tuesday 11th August 2020

Post by **refitman** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 6:42 am

Morning all.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 7:51 am

Good morning, everyone.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 8:35 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
That is a hardening of Labour's line AFAICS, and if so a welcome one.

I don't have as much exposure to UK news as you, but haven't the LP been most extraordinarily slow in pointing out the obviously flaws in Lighthouse labs and then the SERCO T&T project , including of course the eye-watering costs ? Off now, see you later .

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 10:00 am

I'm inclined to agree with frog, Labour have finally managed to criticise the privatised t&t system on the exact same day that the govt announced it was changing.

Plenty of experts on Independent Sage they could have been listening to all along.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... onal-teams" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 10:12 am

gilsey wrote:I'm inclined to agree with frog, Labour have finally managed to criticise the privatised t&t system on the exact same day that the govt announced it was changing.

Plenty of experts on Independent Sage they could have been listening to all along.

I've been on Twitter a lot more recently and Labour seem okay there. I find out a lot of information from Labour tweets, either from Labour MPs or Labour party press. I don't watch news media at all so I've no idea what's going on there.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 11:15 am

Asylum seekers launch legal challenge against their removal from UK

Toufique Hossain of Duncan Lewis solicitors, which is challenging many of the forced removals planned for Wednesday, said: “All the clients we represent have strong claims for international protection. They are, by definition, refugees. They also have very strong reasons as to why their claims ought to be processed in the UK.

Celia Clarke, the director of the charity Bail for Immigration Detainees, said: “We fear that this cavalier move is part of a strategy to rush through as many removals as possible under Dublin regulations which will cease to be part of UK law after the Brexit date. .......

A Home Office spokesperson said: “We want to see migrants who have illegally and dangerously crossed the Channel returned to mainland Europe.

“While we are unable to comment on ongoing legal proceedings, it is the case that the current legal framework is often abused by activist lawyers to frustrate the government’s attempts in this regard.”

We're never short of examples of the tories being lower than vermin.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 11:19 am

And that word again, illegal.

The people traffickers may be acting illegally but the asylum seekers aren't.

Johnson was at it yesterday talking about illegal immigrants, my understanding is they're nothing of the kind unless/until they've applied for asylum and failed.

BBC as well.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 11:24 am

Keir Starmer's approach is certainly different and is more about outcomes than methods. Around coronavirus it appears to be to agree with Johnson's aims (Johnson is desperate to accuse Labour of failing to support the government on fighting it), wait for the evidence to come in and then confront Johnson with that evidence, slowly building the case against him, on the record in Hansard. In the absence of PMQs it's become more noticeable what Starmer doesn't do which is make lots of statements to the press. This is clearly very frustrating for those unhappy with the government and want to see their failings highlighted. It may be a mistake. But what it does do is it ensures the media can't turn the leader of the opposition and his opinions into the story, something they repeatedly did with Corbyn, taking the pressure off the government. The one single aim of Labour at the moment is to make the government own its choices, on coronavirus and, especially, on Brexit. The less Labour say, the less they take focus away from the government and what it's doing.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 11:34 am

Willow904 wrote:Keir Starmer's approach is certainly different and is more about outcomes than methods. Around coronavirus it appears to be to agree with Johnson's aims (Johnson is desperate to accuse Labour of failing to support the government on fighting it), wait for the evidence to come in and then confront Johnson with that evidence, slowly building the case against him, on the record in Hansard. In the absence of PMQs it's become more noticeable what Starmer doesn't do which is make lots of statements to the press. This is clearly very frustrating for those unhappy with the government and want to see their failings highlighted. It may be a mistake. But what it does do is it ensures the media can't turn the leader of the opposition and his opinions into the story, something they repeatedly did with Corbyn, taking the pressure off the government. The one single aim of Labour at the moment is to make the government own its choices, on coronavirus and, especially, on Brexit. The less Labour say, the less they take focus away from the government and what it's doing.

hmmm.....I agree with that in principle and was the same argument that was made when Starmer and Corbyn were dancing around Brexit and allowing the Government to make the mistakes

They, especially Corbyn, were widely criticised for this by the same people who purport like Starmer's laid-back approach (strange that!) but one day he is going to come off the fence and that is where the danger lies.....Labour, and Starmer was culpable in that too, made an error when they did that

My concern is that Starmer doesn't give the impression at being very good at the 'politics' bit that is need - Corbyn had a very good rapport with those he met (but was murdered by media) and Johnson also gets away with it for some reason....is Starmer another Miliband/May who doesn't connect well enough to actually inspire anyone to vote for him. My feeling is that he isn't and is very much dependent on a Tory implosion

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 12:16 pm

off topic
has anyone experienced lightening and flash flooding?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 12:22 pm

PorFavor
Would you care for some sparkling water with a little lime?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 12:43 pm

Starmer is naturally cautious, that has often served him well during this crisis. But not always.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 1:40 pm

Test and trace: Stop Serco contract before £300m more is paid to outsourcing giant, Labour warns

‘The stakes are too high to tolerate failure’

https://inews.co.uk/news/test-and-trace ... rty-575183" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Enfin, alors ?????

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 2:15 pm

citizenJA wrote:off topic
has anyone experienced lightening and flash flooding?

Major thunderstorm here overnight, power went off for a minute or so.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 2:35 pm

Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
Don’t know whether failing nation state Lebanon or crushing protestors Belarus or Trump prepping election theft or Facebook inciting QAnon hate crimes or imminent Covid winter hell or Faragification of entire British news cycle to be most concerned about. Please advise

Actually, got that wrong. Should have said, I don’t know whether to be most concerned about crushing democracy in Lebanon, crushing democracy in Belarus, crushing democracy in US or crushing democracy in Britain? Or wild card, role of fascist enabler Facebook

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 3:25 pm

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Charlie Falconer @LordCFalconer
Serco got the Test and Trace contract from the govt. Health Dept were told again and again to use local authority based arrangements. They didn’t listen. Health Minister, Edward Argar, used to work for Serco.

En réponse à @LordCFalconer
An alternative test and trace programme:

Trace connections between cabinet and the recipient of awarded contracts, and then test the legality of those in courts.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 3:27 pm

frog222 wrote:

Charlie Falconer @LordCFalconer
Serco got the Test and Trace contract from the govt. Health Dept were told again and again to use local authority based arrangements. They didn’t listen. Health Minister, Edward Argar, used to work for Serco.

En réponse à @LordCFalconer
An alternative test and trace programme:

Trace connections between cabinet and the recipient of awarded contracts, and then test the legality of those in courts.

corrupt

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 3:57 pm

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Haggis_UK @Haggis_UK
.@bbcnickrobinson - Remind me what your last job was before becoming an MP?

Edward Argar(health minister) - I worked for Serco.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 4:55 pm

gilsey wrote:
Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
Don’t know whether failing nation state Lebanon or crushing protestors Belarus or Trump prepping election theft or Facebook inciting QAnon hate crimes or imminent Covid winter hell or Faragification of entire British news cycle to be most concerned about. Please advise

Actually, got that wrong. Should have said, I don’t know whether to be most concerned about crushing democracy in Lebanon, crushing democracy in Belarus, crushing democracy in US or crushing democracy in Britain? Or wild card, role of fascist enabler Facebook

Not to worry, we defeated far right extremism forever when Nick Griffin appeared on Question Time.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 5:19 pm

This month, MPs on the home affairs select committee published a damning report that said failure to impose special border measures, such as mandatory self-isolation and targeted testing, on people arriving in the UK from countries such as Spain in the run-up to the Covid-19 lockdown was “a serious mistake” that significantly increased the pace and scale of the epidemic. “The UK was almost unique in having no border checks or quarantine arrangements at that time,” said Yvette Cooper, the committee chair. Despite numerous requests for the scientific evidence that backed the decision-making at the time, the committee said none was provided.

Richie Mawson was a beloved dad and Liverpool fan. Did a late lockdown cost him his life?

(cJA bold)

05 August 2020
The Covid-19 pandemic in the UK was accelerated in the early months by critical errors in the Government's approach to border measures which led to many more people contracting Covid-19, the Home Affairs Committee has found in its report on Home Office preparedness for COVID-19 (coronavirus): management of the borders.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/comm ... hed-19-21/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have we had this?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 6:42 pm

Innovators’ priorities are naturally shaped by their own cultural and social milieu. In a recent paper, Harvard Business School professor Josh Lerner and Ramana Nanda have quantified how distant their values and priorities may be from those of ordinary people.

In the US, venture capital (VC) plays a disproportionate role in financing innovation by startups. The VC industry is highly concentrated, with the top 5% of investors accounting for 50% of the capital raised.

Three regions – the San Francisco Bay Area, Greater New York, and Greater Boston – account for about two-thirds of the industry and over 90% of top firms’ corporate board membership. The top VC firms’ influence goes even further, because they often act as gatekeepers for other investors.

Democratizing Innovation
Aug 11, 2020
Dani Rodrik

https://www.project-syndicate.org/comme ... ik-2020-08" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

most decent people don't form a coherent majority focusing effort into sustainable, healthy endeavours due in part to the intentional distraction efforts by a few people caring nothing for everyone else

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 6:44 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -after-row" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Over 100,000 Scottish exam grades to be reinstated after row

I previously suggested that colleges just needed to be flexible but I may have underestimated the complete inflexibility of the UCAS system! This does seem the simplest way to ensure all students get to move on, which is the important thing. Interestingly, students from lower attaining state schools often make greater progress at degree level than students with the highest marks from private schools, which shows that grades alone can't predict academic ability.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 6:47 pm

And we've got this all to come south of the border in the next few days......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 7:11 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 8:00 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 ... kills-quiz

I somehow contrived to score a pitiful 10/20. Shameful display. I'm blaming the heat.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 8:05 pm

citizenJA wrote:Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

Early night for you then, good luck sleeping in these conditions.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 9:10 pm

Down to 25, opening windows !

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 9:39 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:And we've got this all to come south of the border in the next few days......

Worse, the Scottish kids had the right to appeal the results they were given, English kids have no such luxury. I've noticed the Tory line so far seems to be to shift the blame to teachers, I've repeatedly heard them saying the grades will be based on teacher's assessments, which in the vast majority of cases will be simply untrue.

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/08/10/a-lev ... d-to-know/

The SNP tried very hard to defend their near identical approach (without blaming teachers it has to be said) but in the face of furious students and litigious parents they've caved and lobbed a hand grenade South over the border. So now not only will Gavin Williamson be facing a tsunami of shit from students and parents over the results, he'll have to face the fact that Scottish students applying for English universities will have an advantage over their English counterparts.

Things are about to get very difficult indeed for our erstwhile fireplace salesman.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 9:41 pm

So...Kamala Harris as Biden's running mate?

I predict at least one article in the Telegraph or Spiked about how this is so woke...

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 9:46 pm

frog222 wrote:Down to 25, opening windows !

25° here also, with fenetres ouvre.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 10:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:So...Kamala Harris as Biden's running mate?

I predict at least one article in the Telegraph or Spiked about how this is so woke...

On Fox News Tucker Carlson tried to claim it was illegal.

https://www.salon.com/2020/08/04/tucker ... president/

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 10:20 pm

BBC and Sky accused of 'voyeurism' in coverage of migrant boats

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ss-channel

I'm beginning to suspect our media may be run by werewolves because they seem incapable of ignoring dog whistles.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 10:21 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:So...Kamala Harris as Biden's running mate?

I predict at least one article in the Telegraph or Spiked about how this is so woke...

Rice would have been a better pick IMO, Harris has made quite a few enemies.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 11:05 pm

Brilliant one from George Monbiot -- How wolves change the course of rivers !

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frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 11:06 pm

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 11 Aug, 2020 11:35 pm

Brilliant one from George Monbiot -- How wolves change the course of rivers !

There's a brilliant series on the History channel called 'Alone' that I couldn't recommend highly enough, basically they dump 'survivalists' alone in Northern Canada with some tools and cameras and see who lasts the longest. In last week's episode a guy from El Salvador who'd survived civil war by learning to hide and survive in the jungle woke up to discover a pack of wolves surrounding his shelter and like any sane human being he was quite obviously terrified. They've upped the ante this year so whoever wins gets a million dollars but sooner or later they're going to get somebody killed, and when I say killed I mean eaten.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 12:11 am

Scottish Conservatives appoint Ruth Davidson as Holyrood leader.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ood-leader

I hate to bore on about Scottish stuff here but Ruth Davidson really is a curious case. In England, even it appears in the Guardian, she seems to have accrued some kind of mythic status as a liberal lesbian Tory, some kind of exotic creature of wondrous abilities that could one day replace the likes of Johnson. Whereas in Scotland she's seen as a dyed in the wool Orange Order arch Tory who never missed a chance to stoke sectarian divides and barely turned up for her Edinburgh constituency surgeries.

I'd like to think it's the allure of the foreign that excites the English when it comes to Ruth but let's face it, her popularity, even amongst the Left wing press, is down to an arrogant pig ignorance of Scottish politics.

And I say that as a borderer so my chip is barely noticeable.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 1:18 am

Ok so a bit of an experiment here, my 'man' got me some weed today but it doesn't look or smell like the stuff I usually get. I've been assured all will be well but we shall see. Coronavirus has really fucked up the drug trade.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 1:30 am

Night night.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 2:11 am

Goodnight. Fuck. Help.

Only joking.

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Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 2:13 am

I'm a creature of habit.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 2:39 am

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Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 2:54 am

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Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 12 Aug, 2020 3:08 am

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