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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 8:57 am 
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Good morning all, I assume refitman is having a lie in?


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 9:22 am 
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Good morning.

I'll link this so our education bods don't need to.

https://twitter.com/MaryBoustedNEU/stat ... 3264568322

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Dr Mary Bousted
@MaryBoustedNEU
We wrote to @BorisJohnson on 10th June asking for a plan B in case of second spikes, local lockdowns and COVID cases in schools. We asked for national provision of IT for disadvantaged children, employing more teachers, and support for remote learning.


Last night, School Leaders get an email, late into the evening, informing them of what should happen if case numbers rise locally - outlining 4 tiers of intervention - including secondary school rotas and, at tier 4, school closures.

Sympathies to teachers everywhere.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 9:42 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Good morning all, I assume refitman is having a lie in?

Thanks for kicking things off. 3am bedtime doesn't lead to early starts :rofl:


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 11:18 am 
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Morning all.

re the new rules for school only arriving late last night, this was pointed out as well about schools operating a rota for Year Groups.

Quote:
Rota lengths should not be any shorter than one week as this does not provide sufficient time off-site for symptoms to present. Schools should plan to utilise time over the weekend effectively in order to prepare for a different rota group at the start of the week.


Great - thanks for that...

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 12:38 pm 
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What a charmer...

https://twitter.com/PimlicoPlumbers/sta ... 2672455681

:toss:

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 1:40 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
What's wrong with this person?
The cynic in me thinks it may be a marketing ploy
rude b******s everywhere have found their plumber


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 2:01 pm 
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I've read some of the responses
it seems this plumbing company may have relied upon commercial offices for their custom


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 2:01 pm 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 4:15 pm 
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Boo !


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 5:43 pm 
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Of all the things that are worth demonstrating about, what prompts people to demontstrate about wearing face masks?

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 5:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 5:52 pm 
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Or


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 5:59 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Of all the things that are worth demonstrating about, what prompts people to demontstrate about wearing face masks?


Because those that do wear masks are SHEEPLE who should WAKE UP?


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 6:54 pm 
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Wake up to what?

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 6:54 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Of all the things that are worth demonstrating about, what prompts people to demontstrate about wearing face masks?
Distracting themselves & trying to distract others
Some people won't acknowledge a good problem when those happen


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 6:55 pm 
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There's a lot of magical thinking about.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 7:00 pm 
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Enjoyed the second vid !


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 7:13 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Wake up to what?


Just to clarify - their opinion not mine :D


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 7:28 pm 
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Don't worry - I understood that - but remain curious to know what said 'sheeple' are supposed to be waking up to. The uncoolness of trying to remain animate?

Humanity is becoming more mysterious by the year.

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 8:12 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Don't worry - I understood that - but remain curious to know what said 'sheeple' are supposed to be waking up to. The uncoolness of trying to remain animate?

Humanity is becoming more mysterious by the year.
I hope people are fundamentally mysterious making money and time spent on their psychological manipulation ultimately unsuccessful.


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 8:53 pm 
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Interesting...

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/sta ... 2624073728

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Opinium
@OpiniumResearch
The Conservatives and Labour are neck and neck in the polls for the first time since mid-2019


But the election is still 4 years away so...

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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 9:18 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Sat 29 Aug, 2020 10:05 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Interesting...

https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/sta ... 2624073728

Quote:
Opinium
@OpiniumResearch
The Conservatives and Labour are neck and neck in the polls for the first time since mid-2019


But the election is still 4 years away so...


Most recent polls have shown Labour narrowing the Tory lead, so this hasn't come out of nowhere.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 8:28 am 
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So Labour have pulled polling back to where it was in Spring 2019. Although saying that is a bit like mentioning the 2017 election result, it's strictly not allowed.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 8:35 am 
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Good morning

Perhaps one of the reasons some people are a bit skeptical about wearing masks is that there is no evidence that they work - doesn't mean people shouldn't wear them but the idea that there is a incontrovertible number of studies is not correct - if you read the studies they are often heavily caveated and some are of really poor quality. It is probably the case when it all becomes clear that some types of masks are useful in some circumstances, others make no differences and in some cases they are actually vectors in the spread of disease.

https://www.cebm.net/oxford-covid-19-evidence-service/

The 'Centre for Evidenced-Based Medicine' at Oxford Uni always seems to be a good place to start but the problem with science is often what sees to be 'common sense' tends not to have that much actual evidence to back it up. This is where you see the downside of the scientific approach - often evidence is weak or non-existent for certain accepted 'truth'

On masks I cannot get excited - I will wear one as it is not much of a problem but the main concern I have is the left seems to have vacated the space in skepticism and left it for the right

Skepticism seems to be used as an insult now, as if being one makes you a crank. I saw an interview with Devi Sridhar the main proponent in GB of the zerocovid policy and I have to say it was one of the poorest I have seen from a senior scientist - full of anecdote and opinion but very little data. She is never called a skeptic though so she must be okay!

Those of us who are very skeptical of the management of this virus and how it has been politicised and concerned about the gap between data and rhetoric (again another large number of deaths being predicted for winter - seems the large number predicted for 'in two weeks' is yet to transpire though) are labelled along with the cranks - this includes the Prof from the CEBM mentioned above who is the one who has been pushing for better analysis of the data

Now we a starting to see some articles in the press though starting to question the politicisation of the vaccine search and the efficacy of the PCR test for use in monitoring infections rather than as a diagnostic device

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... -got-dirty
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/heal ... sting.html

Also, these graphs are good to show how the situation between now and March/April is not comparable

https://twitter.com/JohnDStats/status/1 ... 1698638854

Just to be clear, Coronavirus had a massive impact in March/April - 100000s undetected cases being transmitted without control, treatments unoptimised, complete failure to protect the vulnerable etc, apocalyptic predictions - based on that lockdowns were possible necessary psychologically(efficaciousness can be determined later). We have moved on since then >95% reduction in infections, symptomatic cases, hospitalisations, ICU and deaths but still we maintain the same level of rhetoric and fear

When the eminent economic fallout appears and the impact of the pandemic on the world economy becomes clearer there will be a more hard questions asked about why we have done what we are doing and the liberal left is going to still be talking about 'zerocovid' whilst the libertarian right make hay!


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 9:08 am 
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adam wrote:
So Labour have pulled polling back to where it was in Spring 2019. Although saying that is a bit like mentioning the 2017 election result, it's strictly not allowed.


To be strictly accurate the start of 2019, before the great Change UK experiment was launched. Now, *that* is something omerta in the media these days......


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 10:23 am 
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Quite.

Quote:
#BlackLivesMatter
@staysocialism
·
Aug 29
I work in Manchester. My office job pays me £22,000 a year and can be done from home. The government want me to now spend £250 a month on trains and give up 40 hours a month in travel to buy a £6 sandwich from Pret everyday with whatever’s left of my disposal income. Hmm.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 11:00 am 
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As expected. Still precautionary principle. Why not. If I were a teacher or lecturer I would want a lot more in place than there currently is to ensure my safety.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 11:07 am 
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Given that we all accept that the current economic model (a cultural construct rather than something determined by natural law) of constant growth is unsustainable, now might be a good time to be coming up with some more viable economic models for the world as it is now. Including supporting businesses while we can't spend money ourselves. Ie: instead of writing off deaths (determined by natural law) as unavoidable, some new thinking on economics might be more morally appropriate. In the end of course economics is indeed determined by natural law and we have already found that we are living in the red (natural resources being a limiting factor).

Until we all go and live in space.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 11:46 am 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Given that we all accept that the current economic model (a cultural construct rather than something determined by natural law) of constant growth is unsustainable, now might be a good time to be coming up with some more viable economic models for the world as it is now. Including supporting businesses while we can't spend money ourselves. Ie: instead of writing off deaths (determined by natural law) as unavoidable, some new thinking on economics might be more morally appropriate. In the end of course economics is indeed determined by natural law and we have already found that we are living in the red (natural resources being a limiting factor).

Until we all go and live in space.


Sounds a good idea on paper but how do you manage the huge unemployment wave whilst we transition?

Are the 'progressives'ready with a plan or will they act like they did in 2008 and let the right define the future? Labour used to have a plan but not sure if it still applies under Starmer.

The right are ready and waiting to exploit this and with fear already high I can only see on outcome. Labour would need to be bold and ambitious in order to challenge the narrative of fear from the right - can you see Starmer doing this?

On the precautionary principle - it is an approach (not one I am overly fond of i may add) but if that is the one to be taken then be clear about what it means in practice. I assume you would also apply it to the vaccine rollout programme?


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 1:28 pm 
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Perhaps one of the reasons some people are a bit skeptical about wearing masks is that there is no evidence that they work -
That'll save the hospitals $billions then !


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 1:42 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Perhaps one of the reasons some people are a bit skeptical about wearing masks is that there is no evidence that they work -
That'll save the hospitals $billions then !


Totally different use case....look at the studies


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 2:48 pm 
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Am talking more radical global rethink than party politics. The sort of thing where everyone goes - that can't happen - until external circumstances eventually ensure that it has to.

Story of.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 2:50 pm 
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I can imagine when money was first introduced. People going why the hell would you want that stuff when you can have a guinea pig/rabbit/whatever for your pot.

And of course they had a point: you can't eat money.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 3:19 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Am talking more radical global rethink than party politics. The sort of thing where everyone goes - that can't happen - until external circumstances eventually ensure that it has to.

Story of.


Politicians often do things because they have to, rather than because they want to.

One reason why I think some in all political persuasions focus a bit too much on "leadership" tbh.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 3:58 pm 
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Well, we're told to catch sneezes in a tissue and cough into our elbow so I don't think you need elaborate scientific evidence to tell you that permanently wearing a face hanky is going to help reduce droplets. Yes, most people aren't going to wash them after every use but I can't see the contamination risk being higher than the rest of your clothes, tbh.

They aren't a substitute for test, track and trace, though and I'm concerned masks instead of social distancing may not be as effective, but we shall see.

What is undeniable is that we need to completely change our attitude to illness and work and get away from this whole alpha male 'never been off a day sick in my life' thing. Dragging yourself into work sick and giving your flu/stomach bug/novel coronavirus to all your work colleagues is not cool and never has been. We have to start putting people's health before the bottom line and government can really lead the way by promoting sick pay as a public good, rather than a drain on resources. Having whole schools / workplaces / hospital wards go down with norovirus, for instance, as has often happened in the past, is the real drain on resources and always has been before we even get to new and emerging pandemics.

We may never be able to develop an effective and lasting vaccine to covid so changing our whole attitude to illness, ill people and work may prove essential to being able to live with it.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 4:23 pm 
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adam wrote:
So Labour have pulled polling back to where it was in Spring 2019. Although saying that is a bit like mentioning the 2017 election result, it's strictly not allowed.
thank you for this reminder
I'd forgotten Spring 2019 polling
I'm serious, not sarcastic
This is a small example of what I mean when I write about psychological manipulation. Control over a lot of what people see and hear every day helps control people.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 4:43 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
We may never be able to develop an effective and lasting vaccine to covid so changing our whole attitude to illness, ill people and work may prove essential to being able to live with it.


Though there does seem to be cautious optimism on that currently.

And the latter is in many ways desirable in any case.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 9:38 pm 
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Quote:
Piers Corbyn, the brother of Jeremy Corbyn, the former leader of the UK’s Labour party, has become one of the first people to receive a £10,000 fixed penalty under new coronavirus laws restricting public gatherings of more than 30 people.

The weather forecaster and climate change denier was arrested and fined for his part in organising Saturday’s demonstration in central London against lockdown restrictions.

You can't choose your relatives.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 9:46 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Quote:
Piers Corbyn, the brother of Jeremy Corbyn, the former leader of the UK’s Labour party, has become one of the first people to receive a £10,000 fixed penalty under new coronavirus laws restricting public gatherings of more than 30 people.

The weather forecaster and climate change denier was arrested and fined for his part in organising Saturday’s demonstration in central London against lockdown restrictions.

You can't choose your relatives.
True. There's no way in hell I'm responsible for my eldest sister's cockamamie ideas. She's a proper nutter.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 9:49 pm 
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The first photograph of her & I together is my swaddled self precariously perched on queenieJA's lap dangerously near an open window on the second floor of the house.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 9:49 pm 
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I'm lucky to be alive


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 9:50 pm 
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She and I have issues


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 9:55 pm 
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Climate change denier and mask shamer. The longer I live the more I realise how unweird my family is.

Which is in itself weird.

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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 10:06 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Climate change denier and mask shamer. The longer I live the more I realise how unweird my family is.

Which is in itself weird.
genetic variation is amazing


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 10:11 pm 
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Almost predictably, a column by a certain B Johnson extolling the "other" Corbyn has been unearthed.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 10:12 pm 
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Utter craziness going on here. It would have been the West Indian Carnival weekend here but it's been cancelled and yet the police have descended on the area en masse. Walking home from my mate's house nearby I was passed by 5 police vans, the helicopter is out and there's police standing on street corners. I've never seen anything like it. I did notice the odd group of black youngsters here and there but they were friendly as I passed and I noticed a white middle class party up the road seems to have gone unmolested despite the garden being packed with people evidently ignoring 'the rules'.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 10:15 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
Utter craziness going on here. It would have been the West Indian Carnival weekend here but it's been cancelled and yet the police have descended on the area en masse. Walking home from my mate's house nearby I was passed by 5 police vans, the helicopter is out and there's police standing on street corners. I've never seen anything like it. I did notice the odd group of black youngsters here and there but they were friendly as I passed and I noticed a white middle class party up the road seems to have gone unmolested despite the garden being packed with people evidently ignoring 'the rules'.
yikes


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 10:35 pm 
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Yikes indeed.

It's as if the police decided the black community here couldn't be trusted. Yet, as I say, the only gathering I passed was white people in the garden with wine glasses and middle class accents who seemed utterly unharassed by our boys and girls in blue.


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PostPosted: Sun 30 Aug, 2020 10:59 pm 
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First Secretary of State
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Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am
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Heading outside with a watering can so at least I had an excuse* I can see the police are dispersing now.

*Who doesn't water their tomatoes at midnight?


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