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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 8:32 am 
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 9:54 am 
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Interesting posting on Zelo Street just now.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 10:07 am 
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Morning all.

All well with 'er indoors apparently which is good news.


Meanwhile part of our free press has managed, and I'm not sure how, to get the PM to write for them...

Quote:
James Felton
@JimMFelton
Reminder that the Prime Minister is now calling his own deal he negotiated, called “oven ready” and won an election on in December dog shit but everyone knew what they were voting for four years ago.
10:54 AM · Sep 12, 2020·Twitter for iPhone


Quite.

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 10:33 am 
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Happy that things appear to be going well Roger.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 3:35 pm 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 3:48 pm 
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I'm old enough to recall when the Labour right could at least do a decent coup.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 5:25 pm 
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https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/stat ... 6782961669

I can't work out how to see the thread unroll, first attempt at that twitter ????
Somebody already requested it; there somewhere !!

Brexit Trade Talks:

UK: We don’t like our deal

EU: Why not?

UK: We only get 95% of what we want

EU: It only gives us 95% too. That's how negotiating goes

UK: We want a new deal that gives us everything we can think of

EU: But you signed a deal

UK: Don't care, we hate you
3:48 PM · Sep 12, 2020·Twitter Web App
903
-----------------------------------------
EU: Bit rude

UK: We elected people to go to your meetings specifically to say we hate you

EU: And how is Nigel?

UK: Not happy?

EU: Why not?

UK: TV has dried up. So we want a new deal, and we want the deal in 3 weeks, or we cancel our existing deal

EU: Wait, what?
-----------------------------------
UK: You heard. Give us 100% of what we want in 3 weeks, or we break the law and walk away with 0% of what we want

EU: Er… suits us!

UK: Wait, what?

EU: Perfect. Do it. Walk away. Take Nigel with you.

UK: No, hold on, wait: you have to negotiate, so Boris can win
ETC
----------------------------------------
and so it goes on --------------

UK: Fine, we’ll go and make a great deal with the US

---

US: Yo suckers

UK: We are here to get a lovely big trade deal

US: Sure thing. Obey existing deals, and give us 100% of everything, plus 51% controlling share in the NHS, and you get, let’s see, 60% of what you have now
ETC
-------------------------------------

I need all the larfs going XX

(( 28 forecast for tomorrow and Tuesday, Monday revised to 35 ! ))


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 6:13 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1304778986782961669

I can't work out how to see the thread unroll, first attempt at that twitter ????
Somebody already requested it; there somewhere !!

Brexit Trade Talks:

UK: We don’t like our deal

EU: Why not?

UK: We only get 95% of what we want

EU: It only gives us 95% too. That's how negotiating goes

UK: We want a new deal that gives us everything we can think of

EU: But you signed a deal

UK: Don't care, we hate you
3:48 PM · Sep 12, 2020·Twitter Web App
903
-----------------------------------------
EU: Bit rude

UK: We elected people to go to your meetings specifically to say we hate you

EU: And how is Nigel?

UK: Not happy?

EU: Why not?

UK: TV has dried up. So we want a new deal, and we want the deal in 3 weeks, or we cancel our existing deal

EU: Wait, what?
-----------------------------------
UK: You heard. Give us 100% of what we want in 3 weeks, or we break the law and walk away with 0% of what we want

EU: Er… suits us!

UK: Wait, what?

EU: Perfect. Do it. Walk away. Take Nigel with you.

UK: No, hold on, wait: you have to negotiate, so Boris can win
ETC
----------------------------------------
and so it goes on --------------

UK: Fine, we’ll go and make a great deal with the US

---

US: Yo suckers

UK: We are here to get a lovely big trade deal

US: Sure thing. Obey existing deals, and give us 100% of everything, plus 51% controlling share in the NHS, and you get, let’s see, 60% of what you have now
ETC
-------------------------------------

I need all the larfs going XX

(( 28 forecast for tomorrow and Tuesday, Monday revised to 35 ! ))

ta, it's here:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1304 ... 61669.html


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 7:58 pm 
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So what lies behind ultra-loyalist Suella Braverman’s rise to the top?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/12/when-even-the-attorney-general-flouts-the-law-what-hope-does-britain-have-suella-braverman

Like many of you here I'm not Nick Cohen's biggest fan but I can't fault him for doing some digging on Braverman and, surprise surprise, she's made a lot of claims about herself and her career that appear to be outright fabrications.

The first time I became aware of Suella was on Question time a couple of years ago when she was a junior Brexit minister and she came across as an unhinged fantasist, the kind of grinning fool you're more used to seeing on daytime TV adverts saying "I lost 5 stone last year eating ground up hats". She genuinely seemed deranged. So embellishing her past with complete bullshit seems par for the course. As does her behaviour as our Attorney General.

But what I'd really like to know is how someone who is so evidently lacking in critical faculties can get a law degree from Cambridge? Because from what I've seen this week actual lawyers aren't just disagreeing with her, they're laughing at her and piling in to take the piss. Did a Cambridge law student accidentally throw their degree away and Suella found it in a bin? Or is being round the bend, dishonest and fantastically dense looked favourably upon when studying law at our elite universities? There has to be some explanation because either she puts on an act in the media but is astute and brilliant in private, or Cambridge University hand out law degrees to people who would struggle to outwit a hungover marmoset that came bottom of its class in law at monkey school.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 9:02 pm 
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Only just begun reading this --
Quote:
Keir Starmer won the Labour leadership in 2020 for three main reasons: he pledged to stick to the core policies of Corbynism; he promised competent leadership; and he prioritised party unity. There is nothing in this that the left should oppose or be in conflict with.

Starmer has so far faced little to none of the internal sabotage and obstruction that Corbynism endured. The Left should behave better (and largely has), and it may also need to build alliances to keep Starmer’s policy pledges on track.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opende ... y-we-lost/
I'd be interested to hear comments on that ?


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 9:09 pm 
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So France has hit over 10,000 new Covid infections today.

Given this...

Less than 20% of people in England self-isolate fully, Sage says

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/11/less-than-20-of-people-in-england-self-isolate-fully-sage-says

And people being sent to the moons of Jupiter by our world beating test, track and trace system I reckon we can beat them.

All it needs is a bit of vim, spunk and bulldog stupidity and we'll be at 20,000 by next weekend.

Unless stripey shirts, berets, garlic round the neck and rickety bicycles all encourage Covid and the French are cheating. I wouldn't put it past them.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 9:20 pm 
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Goodnight, all.
Love,
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 9:46 pm 
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I'm watching the Press Preview on Sky TV news. According to the Sunday Telegraph, Boris Johnson is set to opt out of several ECHR Human Rights laws.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 10:07 pm 
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It would appear that Neil Hamilton (remember him?) is the new leader of (remember them?) UKIP.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 10:14 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
I'd be interested to hear comments on that ?


From an outsider's point of view it seems a mostly fair and well reasoned article.

If Corbyn achieved any lasting legacy it has been to move Labour's centre of gravity back to the left in a number of key areas, from State aid and ownership to not treating all benefit claimants like criminals. It's hard to see Starmer rowing any of that back any time soon even if he wanted too (which I don't think he does).

What's not mentioned in the article is that it was entirely within the power of Corbyn and Labour to come together with opposition parties and deny Johnson the General Election he so desperately wanted. Yes I realise the delusional Jo Swinson wasn't helpful in that regard but had Labour stood firm and kept Johnson's feet to the fire we wouldn't be where we are now.

Also omitted is the dire position Labour finds itself in Scotland, they are essentially now an afterthought. From one disastrous leader to another, getting up to all sorts of nonsense like encouraging people to vote Tory and essentially standing for nothing. If you're a Social Democrat North of the border who are you going to vote for? It's not going to be the Labour Party.

The one thing Labour has going for it at the moment is the appearance of a credible figurehead going up against a buffoon and it's clearly working, I understand the Left of the party is hurting but they have achieved things they should be proud of. They've managed to mould policies in their image but sometimes in politics it takes another approach to bring them to fruition.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 10:32 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
It would appear that Neil Hamilton (remember him?) is the new leader of (remember them?) UKIP.


Was there a cash prize?


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 11:11 pm 
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The sad thing is until another 4 years have past we're fucked and hostage to a bunch of lunatics and fucking scumbags who care not that they are stealing from us and trashing the things we like.

It's enough to make one quite angry.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 11:26 pm 
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I'm a bit cross, too.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 11:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2020 11:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:13 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:21 am 
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Did they sound dangerous? We might be able to get view South of here if you give me some of your men.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:25 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:32 am 
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Once again you kick ass.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:51 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:59 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:59 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 1:05 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 1:14 am 
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Go away and leave me to sleep.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 1:28 am 
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You narrowly pipped me at the post.

Night night.


Last edited by PorFavor on Sun 13 Sep, 2020 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 1:29 am 
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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 5:25 am 
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Morning

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:37 am 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Morning

Good morning, everyone.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:38 am 
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PorFavor and Sky are angry.
Government tangled with wrong duo, that's all I got to say.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:52 am 
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frog222 wrote:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opende ... y-we-lost/
I'd be interested to hear comments on that ?

It skates over, in one sentence, one of the 2 main factors in GE2019, the other being Brexit.

Quote:
In 2015.......Labour promised a little bit less bad stuff, a little more good stuff, but not too much lest the deficit and debt get out of control like last time, for which the Labour leadership had collectively and foolishly decided to blame itself.

IMO neither the tories nor the MSM took Labour seriously in 2017 which allowed Labour to make unexpected gains. They threw everything at them in 2019 and 'Labour caused the financial crisis' was foremost. Corbyn and McDonnell were on a hiding to nothing, even if they hadn't poured fuel on the flames with the manifesto.

Sky said:
Quote:
What's not mentioned in the article is that it was entirely within the power of Corbyn and Labour to come together with opposition parties and deny Johnson the General Election he so desperately wanted.

If we knew back then what we know now...
I don't think many parliamentarians realised how serious a threat to democracy they were.

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:59 am 
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That's only a partial reading of 2017 IMO.

It wasn't just the media assault last year, but also the way that Corbyn (partly through all the Brexit stuff in the interim) had become just another "normal" politician. Many of the same attacks *were* actually made two years earlier, but bounced off him because he was at least seen as having integrity.

In retrospect it seems increasingly clear that Labour's best option would have been for Corbyn to hand over to somebody else sometime after his near triumph in 2017 - it remains a tragedy that the constant bad faith from so many in the party and media had in effect made that impossible.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 10:40 am 
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AK and gilsey are both right - at least, I don't see any fundamental difference between the posts.
Good comments.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 10:58 am 
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notnowsonny wrote:
Interesting posting on Zelo Street just now.


Looks like Tim has spiked his own story now - I wonder why :popcorn:


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Quote:
Keir Starmer’s article in the Sunday Telegraph
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starme ... telegraph/
It's on the Labour party website
Do read it
I think it's good


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:12 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
frog222 wrote:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opende ... y-we-lost/
I'd be interested to hear comments on that ?

It skates over, in one sentence, one of the 2 main factors in GE2019, the other being Brexit.

Quote:
In 2015.......Labour promised a little bit less bad stuff, a little more good stuff, but not too much lest the deficit and debt get out of control like last time, for which the Labour leadership had collectively and foolishly decided to blame itself.

IMO neither the tories nor the MSM took Labour seriously in 2017 which allowed Labour to make unexpected gains. They threw everything at them in 2019 and 'Labour caused the financial crisis' was foremost. Corbyn and McDonnell were on a hiding to nothing, even if they hadn't poured fuel on the flames with the manifesto.

Sky said:
Quote:
What's not mentioned in the article is that it was entirely within the power of Corbyn and Labour to come together with opposition parties and deny Johnson the General Election he so desperately wanted.

If we knew back then what we know now...
I don't think many parliamentarians realised how serious a threat to democracy they were.


Which is very worrying because it was very obvious. Just follow the money. Everything driving Brexit has come back to the same thing - disaster capitalism and corruption. Create a crisis, clean up on the markets.

Once article 50 was triggered Labour had one, real chance to prevent a no deal crash out imo which was to support May's deal. The backstop would have prevented a "no deal" Brexit from happening by default. Although Johnson could have still challenged May for the leadership and tried to change the WA after the fact he wouldn't have had the majority to do so and even if the opposition caved and agreed to an election, as they did last October, it would have been a very different election, an election in which Labour had helped May "get Brexit done" and the main fighting point wouldn't have been whether to Brexit, it would have been what kind of Brexit, a fight Labour would have done better at, even if they still couldn't win.

I said at the time Labour MPs may come to regret not voting for May's deal, but if you're right it seems many of them never truly grasped what they were up against. I hope the current Labour leadership is less naiive.

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 12:28 pm 
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As for the Libdems, naiive is too kind a word for Jo Swinson's complete betrayal of the country's best interests in return for her five minutes of fame.

Edited to add I just spotted my typo :D Tempted to leave it but on reflection have now boringly swapped "Swinson" for "Swinsob".

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Last edited by Willow904 on Sun 13 Sep, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Half seriously, I think Chuka Umunna brainwashed her with the "you can win 200 seats and become PM" flattery.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 5:39 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mczc

Yet another example to shut up those 100% against the BBC .

Covid 19: The Long Road to Recovery
Quote:
After Coronavirus, the survivors left with life-changing and long term conditions. The physical and psychological aftermath of Covid 19 and the pressure on rehabilitation services. Nearly 3 million people in the UK have had symptomatic coronavirus. More than one hundred thousand so severely, they needed hospital treatment.
This is a new disease, so doctors are guessing when it comes to the symptoms people will have long term.
But it’s clear this virus has a sting in its tail. The sickest patients have damage to their lungs and kidney which could be permanent. Some research shows the risk of heart attack or stroke is high. File on 4 talks to people living with the after effects of Covid 19 who say surviving was just the beginning. There are a multiotide of physical after effects - and many more have suffered post-traumatic stress disorder. People describe flashbacks to the ITU, seeing people die, overhearing their last goodbyes with loved ones on phone or the internet.
Patients who were hospitalised get follow-ups, and referrals for rehabilitation and possibly, counselling.
But what of the hundreds of thousands of other people who fell ill and who, if it weren’t a pandemic, might have gone to hospital, but were told to stay at home?
Researchers say there are at least 300,000 people who have had symptoms of Coronavirus for more than a month – so called Long Haul Covid.
Many are young and previously fit. They say they had a mild case of the virus. But they have been floored by the symptoms that followed – breathlessness, racing heart, weakness. And they're struggling to get care and support.

A nephew and a friend are at the six-month stage this coming week, both feeling a bit better only now . He had just qualified for the IronMan World Championships before falling ill, and she used to run every day .

Some large number don't get better after those six months -- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ill-unwell


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 5:57 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1myIain ... RBCNetwork

Meet the Press is an American television news/interview show that airs on NBC. It began on November 6, 1947. It is the longest-running television show in American television history. The show's format has a long one-on-one interview with a person who works in politics.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 6:17 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:

Which is very worrying because it was very obvious. Just follow the money. Everything driving Brexit has come back to the same thing - disaster capitalism and corruption. Create a crisis, clean up on the markets.

Once article 50 was triggered Labour had one, real chance to prevent a no deal crash out imo which was to support May's deal.

Seeing now how far the ERG are prepared to go, I'm not sure May and her deal would have survived even if it had got through Parliament.

We'll never know.

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 7:36 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Oh dear...


Quote:
Patrick Maguire
@patrickkmaguire
EXC: Geoffrey Cox voting against the Internal Market Bill

Writing for tomorrow's Times, the former attorney general accuses Boris Johnson of "unconscionable" damage to UK's international standing

A dozen Tory MPs had been waiting for his verdict


:D

Makes the current AG look like the bungling know-nothing amateur that she is.

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:22 pm 
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This is amusing...

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/13 ... 2570394625

Quote:
Steve Peers
@StevePeers
·
10m
Replying to
@pmdfoster
It's perhaps the worst legal analysis I have ever seen, and I am including students who leave their exam booklet blank.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 9:29 pm 
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Someone should tell the ERG that "breech" isn't how you spell breach. Buttocks spring to mind.


Edited to insert a space.


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PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2020 10:58 pm 
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So no late night Sky to take us to a second page then?


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