Monday 20th October 2014

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
letsskiptotheleft
Home Secretary
Posts: 1767
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:44 pm
Location: Neath Valley.

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

This was asked earlier, not sure it had an answer, how many Green candidates will there be next year?

Not stirring, genuine question.
User avatar
TechnicalEphemera
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
Release the Guardvarks.
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Temulkar wrote:As I said I am not complaining about people voting Labour you are complaining about people voting green. I am not the one swearing or being aggressive nor are the other greens on here.
Quite happy for you to point out where I have complained about people voting Green, or where I have sworn or acted aggressively toward yourself or any other Green Party supporter. I have expressed doubts about the value of such a vote, and also commented on Brighton council's less than stellar performance under Green Party leadership; was that too 'partisan' of me?
.
Clearly the council in Brighton had problems, but at local level, I think Labour ought to be basically supportive. They've done the same thing with Lutfur Rahman in Tower Hamlets, who has some progressive policies which ought to outweigh the fact he's got unpleasant conservative mates. Local government is so circumscribed, it's not that a Green council can double council tax to spend on fringe eco stuff anyway.

I think more co-operation at local level would help win over supporters of left parties in general elections.
User avatar
TechnicalEphemera
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: What on earth has the line about changing one sentence got to do with anything? The change was fundamental, it was irrelevant how many words it took.

I could radically change most laws by changing just one word, but it doesn't make the change any less radical (like the difference between an AND gate and a NAND gate, just one letter that).
Had the act not been introduced in the first place it would have taken a whole lot more than the change of one sentence.
So what?

The lobbyists and think tanks write whole acts and send them to US state governments ready for them to pass.

You're saying they couldn't have done the same for the NHS even if it hadn't changed since Bevan?

Also still a really daft comment. Lansley didn't change one sentence, he produced a huge rambling complex bill that completely changed huge chunks of the NHS.
Release the Guardvarks.
Temulkar
Secretary of State
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Temulkar »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Temulkar wrote:As I said I am not complaining about people voting Labour you are complaining about people voting green. I am not the one swearing or being aggressive nor are the other greens on here.
Quite happy for you to point out where I have complained about people voting Green, or where I have sworn or acted aggressively toward yourself or any other Green Party supporter. I have expressed doubts about the value of such a vote, and also commented on Brighton council's less than stellar performance under Green Party leadership; was that too 'partisan' of me?


Temulkar wrote:So complain about people voting green all you want, but do not expect me/us to be silent on it. You see that's what grown up debate is about. Stamping your feet and having a little temper tantrum because people disagree with you isn't.
Bless. Nobody is asking you to be silent and, lets be frank, there is as much chance of that happening as me flying to the moon. Quite happy to engage in a bit of grown up debate, please let me know when you're ready to start.
So engage in some grown up debate then rather than passive aggressive flouncing.

Lets start on policies again. What policies have labour got that will entice green voters, because fear of the tories isnt working. So, if you want green voters How do you go about getting them. Is it,

A. Insult them for betraying us to another tory government
B. Dismiss their voters as wasting their vote.
C Engage with them and try and win them over.
User avatar
TheGrimSqueaker
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

Rebecca wrote: Er,being dim here,but is the hamster thing like the 'style of thing'thing that guy in the guardian always signs off with?
It's me being a geek. The Grim Squeaker is a character in Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels, strictly squeaking he is "The Death Of Rats" but he/it also has responsibility for all small furry rodents; "Cower Brief Mortals" is what his boss, Death, says even at the most inappropriate moments - such as, for example, when he is 'standing in' for the Hogfather (Discworld's Santa analogue) at an in store Grotto! And, no, nothing like Imageark (at least I hope not).
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Fair play to Tory MP, Gavin Williamson here. Standing up for Prison Service whistleblowers.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... -dismissal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Temulkar
Secretary of State
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Temulkar »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:This was asked earlier, not sure it had an answer, how many Green candidates will there be next year?

Not stirring, genuine question.
I think 500 ish give or take a few. Realistically we have a chance in 3-4 seats I would be very pleased with 3 despite us targetting 12 in particular.
Rebecca
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 756
Joined: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:27 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Rebecca »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Rebecca wrote: Er,being dim here,but is the hamster thing like the 'style of thing'thing that guy in the guardian always signs off with?
It's me being a geek. The Grim Squeaker is a character in Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels, strictly squeaking he is "The Death Of Rats" but he/it also has responsibility for all small furry rodents; "Cower Brief Mortals" is what his boss, Death, says even at the most inappropriate moments - such as, for example, when he is 'standing in' for the Hogfather (Discworld's Santa analogue) at an in store Grotto! And, no, nothing like Imageark (at least I hope not).
Ha,I love the Hogfather.Best Christmas(made for tv I think) movie .Might dig it out of the Christmas dvds cupboard tonight as I've finished Bones season 9.As you can probably tell,I never go out in the evening.
User avatar
TheGrimSqueaker
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

Temulkar wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Temulkar wrote:As I said I am not complaining about people voting Labour you are complaining about people voting green. I am not the one swearing or being aggressive nor are the other greens on here.
Quite happy for you to point out where I have complained about people voting Green, or where I have sworn or acted aggressively toward yourself or any other Green Party supporter. I have expressed doubts about the value of such a vote, and also commented on Brighton council's less than stellar performance under Green Party leadership; was that too 'partisan' of me?


Temulkar wrote:So complain about people voting green all you want, but do not expect me/us to be silent on it. You see that's what grown up debate is about. Stamping your feet and having a little temper tantrum because people disagree with you isn't.
Bless. Nobody is asking you to be silent and, lets be frank, there is as much chance of that happening as me flying to the moon. Quite happy to engage in a bit of grown up debate, please let me know when you're ready to start.
So engage in some grown up debate then rather than passive aggressive flouncing.

Lets start on policies again. What policies have labour got that will entice green voters, because fear of the tories isnt working. So, if you want green voters How do you go about getting them. Is it,

A. Insult them for betraying us to another tory government
B. Dismiss their voters as wasting their vote.
C Engage with them and try and win them over.
Passive aggressive flouncing? Firstly one person has been aggressive here today, and was similarly aggressive last week, and that is yourself; secondly, flouncing implies leaving, and my statement was the very opposite of that; I have no intention of letting you attempt to control the debate with your mixture of condescension, naked aggression and unfounded accusations. You stop doing that and we can have a proper grown up debate, carry on posting these whining posts about how us nasty partisan Labourites are bullying you and dismissing you and we can't. Your call Tem, wind you neck in & stop dishing out the insults and we can talk; carry on belittling and I'll give you as good as you dish out.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
seeingclearly
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2023
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by seeingclearly »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
He's got a fragile ego. :lol!:
Rebecca
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 756
Joined: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:27 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Rebecca »

seeingclearly wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
He's got a fragile ego. :lol!:
He doesn't think before he opens his mouth.
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
Because he's absolutely useless at the job. Not qualified. Doesn't have a clue about leadership. I could go on....

I also reckon there'll be some swings back in 2015.
Local and by elections are always a nice opportunity to make a protest vote. A shake the buggers up moment and no damage done because it's not for long.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Rebecca
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 756
Joined: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:27 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Rebecca »

ohsocynical wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
Because he's absolutely useless at the job. Not qualified. Doesn't have a clue about leadership. I could go on....

I also reckon there'll be some swings back in 2015.
Local and by elections are always a nice opportunity to make a protest vote. A shake the buggers up moment and no damage done because it's not for long.
How are you feeling now Mrs Ohso?
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
You make him sound like Bertie Wooster .... hmmmm, I suppose he is rather like Bertie Wooster. Crosby is certainly no Jeeves though. That's what Cameron has lacked throughout - a Jeeves character who could repeatedly save him from himself. He got rid of anyone sensible who might have fulfilled that role.
Working on the wild side.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

Pat McFadden becomes Shadow Europe Minister, replacing Gareth Thomas. Thomas moves within the Shadow FCO team to become Shadow Minister for North Africa and the Middle East. Ian Lucas moves from Foreign Affairs to Defence – he’ll be covering international security strategy. And last but not least, Yvonne Fovargue moves from Defence to Education replacing Rushanara Ali as Shadow Minister for Young People.
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/labours-mini-reshuffle/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PaulfromYorkshire
Site Admin
Posts: 8329
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

A good point
Attachments
Screen Shot 2014-10-20 at 19.48.59.png
Screen Shot 2014-10-20 at 19.48.59.png (232.27 KiB) Viewed 15695 times
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

Rebecca wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
He's got a fragile ego. :lol!:
He doesn't think before he opens his mouth.
I imagine those kids from really rich families especially those that go to boarding school from an early age have had little or no 'learn at mother's knee.' They've also been over indulged. The faults don't show as long as they stick with their own, but as PM, his limitations are glaringly obvious.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
howsillyofme1
First Secretary of State
Posts: 3374
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Even' all

Getting a wee bit tetchy tonight........ :fight:

All I will say is I see Labour and Green being a good coalition from the left. As said above the Greens would keep the Labour honest and they are also a credible (as compared to the fringe soacialists) voice on the radical left

Unfortunately, we do not have that possibility in 2015 and so there is only one way to go - Labour. Hope that Miliband will start pulling things back to where we would hope he will - and to where the Greens would like them to be

I cannot see why anyone would think that another 5 years will do anything for anybody who believes what the Greens believe in - even if there is a distrust of Labour, Miliband is not another Blair and is definitely not another Cameron

Also, this makes me sick....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-grouping" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The press should have been all over this and condemning Farage for opportunism and being in bed with racists :fire:
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 11115
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Ofsted Report Watch

Didn't get a chance to look earlier since they weren't loaded before I went up to Cambridge.

Interesting...two primary schools...both converted to academy status i.e. not sponsored...both previously rated as Good which is why they were allowed to convert....and now...rated Requires improvement.

The interesting bit is that they were both unannounced inspections. Can't think why at the moment - maybe Ofsted thought it ought to do a check on primary converters since they won't have access to the support (sic) that sponsored do.

The other one was a s.8 inspection of UCL Academy in Camden - the only academy in the borough. It was a new school but not a free school. Why? No idea.

Anyway, first inspection result was a requires Improvement so thsi was a follow=up.

Now for the interesting bits:
I evaluated the academy’s internal performance information, minutes of governing body and sponsor meetings, and the academy and local authority action plans.
Oh? The LA which has no responsibility for academies?
External support
The academy has secured access to a wide range of well-targeted external support. The support provided by the local authority is of great assistance. For instance, the local authority’s review of the English faculty and the setting up of the local English curriculum leaders’ network has been extremely valuable
LA to the rescue!
Last edited by RogerOThornhill on Mon 20 Oct, 2014 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:In amongst all this general argument, can we all just take time out to have a laugh at the stupidity of one Mr D Cameron.

Today he has been engaged in damage limitation after it was pointed out to him that his wheeze on EU freedom of movement was illegal; and that he wouldn't be able to change that.

Cameron is in this mess because he is desperate to boost his chances in Rochester, which bizarrely he has made into a confidence issue as he thinks he can turn round a 9 point deficit in a by election.

Now when a poll like that is taken it gives UKIP everything it needs to squeeze the Labour and Lib Dem vote. These voters also know that no matter how much they hate UKIP this is an irresistible opportunity to plunge a knife into Dave's chest. Plus they get to vote UKIP out in the general. Dave could lose by 20 points.

How on earth does Cameron get himself into these scrapes?
Because he's absolutely useless at the job. Not qualified. Doesn't have a clue about leadership. I could go on....

I also reckon there'll be some swings back in 2015.
Local and by elections are always a nice opportunity to make a protest vote. A shake the buggers up moment and no damage done because it's not for long.
How are you feeling now Mrs Ohso?
Sort of shattered still. It's taken days to rid my system of painkillers and the side affects from one of the anti-biotics...Now I have to find a decent dentist. There aren't many around here. And they want to check out a blocked saliver gland. Or that's their story. I'm having to sort out my brave head....
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

James Chapman (Mail) retweeted
Robert Oliver ‏@robert_g_oliver Oct 18
Just received a @UKLabour leaflet talking about a "poultry 1% pay rise". Is the party pledging to help hard working chickens?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry but that's funny - even though it's mucho irritating that it's a Labour leaflet. PF - where are you? I think Labour might need your exacting scrutiny and corrective skills.
Working on the wild side.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

howsillyofme1 wrote:Even' all

Getting a wee bit tetchy tonight........ :fight:

All I will say is I see Labour and Green being a good coalition from the left. As said above the Greens would keep the Labour honest and they are also a credible (as compared to the fringe soacialists) voice on the radical left

Unfortunately, we do not have that possibility in 2015 and so there is only one way to go - Labour. Hope that Miliband will start pulling things back to where we would hope he will - and to where the Greens would like them to be

I cannot see why anyone would think that another 5 years will do anything for anybody who believes what the Greens believe in - even if there is a distrust of Labour, Miliband is not another Blair and is definitely not another Cameron

Also, this makes me sick....

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-grouping" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The press should have been all over this and condemning Farage for opportunism and being in bed with racists :fire:
Bloody hell - even Marine Le Pen won't deal with them

Marine Le Pen, the leader of the Front National, ruled out forming an alliance with the Congress of the New Right after the European elections. “His [Korvin-Mikke’s] remarks, his political views ran contrary to our values,” she said at the time.

:shock:
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
James Chapman (Mail) retweeted
Robert Oliver ‏@robert_g_oliver Oct 18
Just received a @UKLabour leaflet talking about a "poultry 1% pay rise". Is the party pledging to help hard working chickens?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry but that's funny - even though it's mucho irritating that it's a Labour leaflet. PF - where are you? I think Labour might need your exacting scrutiny and corrective skills.
Tots obvs - its to feed the owls they promised earlier in the year ... bum bum!!
(I'll get my coat..)
:lol: :lol:
seeingclearly
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2023
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by seeingclearly »

I decided not to listen to the vilely-worded UKIP Calypso, but my alter-ears offspring has just done so. He reliably tells me it is a rip-off of Jamaica Farewell, beloved of many oldies around the world. No accident then. I'm hoping that they haven't done their homework, that someone still holds the rights, and it blows up in their faces. He also thought the words might breech the Equalities act, though these days half the country seems to do that.

On another matter, I hope those interested in ATOS caught the post about replacing them being delayed, and costing us yet more millions, because the DWP forgot that not only do ATOS deliver WCA, they also own the computers.

My fault if you did, for getting fed up of the 'all the same' argument, and getting in up to my ears. No apologies though, my social media is full of it every single day, and it is beyond tiresome. By my reckoning we must be nearly 8 years into the big labour hate, if you count from GB on.
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

seeingclearly wrote:I decided not to listen to the vilely-worded UKIP Calypso, but my alter-ears offspring has just done so. He reliably tells me it is a rip-off of Jamaica Farewell, beloved of many oldies around the world. No accident then. I'm hoping that they haven't done their homework, that someone still holds the rights, and it blows up in their faces. He also thought the words might breech the Equalities act, though these days half the country seems to do that.

On another matter, I hope those interested in ATOS caught the post about replacing them being delayed, and costing us yet more millions, because the DWP forgot that not only do ATOS deliver WCA, they also own the computers.

My fault if you did, for getting fed up of the 'all the same' argument, and getting in up to my ears. No apologies though, my social media is full of it every single day, and it is beyond tiresome. By my reckoning we must be nearly 8 years into the big labour hate, if you count from GB on.
Well well - if it is an unauthorised rip off I hope someone takes action about it. Frankly I have more expectation re someone taking action for a breach of copyright and getting some money off them ... than I do of an organisation or individual being minded to challenge them re Equalities breaches. That's the intensely sad place we are at now.
Working on the wild side.
Temulkar
Secretary of State
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Temulkar »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Quite happy for you to point out where I have complained about people voting Green, or where I have sworn or acted aggressively toward yourself or any other Green Party supporter. I have expressed doubts about the value of such a vote, and also commented on Brighton council's less than stellar performance under Green Party leadership; was that too 'partisan' of me?


Bless. Nobody is asking you to be silent and, lets be frank, there is as much chance of that happening as me flying to the moon. Quite happy to engage in a bit of grown up debate, please let me know when you're ready to start.
So engage in some grown up debate then rather than passive aggressive flouncing.

Lets start on policies again. What policies have labour got that will entice green voters, because fear of the tories isnt working. So, if you want green voters How do you go about getting them. Is it,

A. Insult them for betraying us to another tory government
B. Dismiss their voters as wasting their vote.
C Engage with them and try and win them over.
Passive aggressive flouncing? Firstly one person has been aggressive here today, and was similarly aggressive last week, and that is yourself; secondly, flouncing implies leaving, and my statement was the very opposite of that; I have no intention of letting you attempt to control the debate with your mixture of condescension, naked aggression and unfounded accusations. You stop doing that and we can have a proper grown up debate, carry on posting these whining posts about how us nasty partisan Labourites are bullying you and dismissing you and we can't. Your call Tem, wind you neck in & stop dishing out the insults and we can talk; carry on belittling and I'll give you as good as you dish out.
Aha I see you chose D. Accuse the Green of being aggressive. in spite of the fact it hasnt been the green swearing or indeed threatening to be 'damned robust,' I guess multiple choice is too difficult for you.

As for unfounded accusation do you know the meaning of unfounded or even accuse? I would like to see where I have accused you or indeed anyone of anything.
User avatar
TheGrimSqueaker
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
James Chapman (Mail) retweeted
Robert Oliver ‏@robert_g_oliver Oct 18
Just received a @UKLabour leaflet talking about a "poultry 1% pay rise". Is the party pledging to help hard working chickens?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry but that's funny - even though it's mucho irritating that it's a Labour leaflet. PF - where are you? I think Labour might need your exacting scrutiny and corrective skills.
Sounds like a freudian slip, as a 1% rise is pretty much chicken feed, especially in comparison to the MPs 11%.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
Rebecca
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 756
Joined: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:27 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Rebecca »

ohsocynical wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Because he's absolutely useless at the job. Not qualified. Doesn't have a clue about leadership. I could go on....

I also reckon there'll be some swings back in 2015.
Local and by elections are always a nice opportunity to make a protest vote. A shake the buggers up moment and no damage done because it's not for long.
How are you feeling now Mrs Ohso?
Sort of shattered still. It's taken days to rid my system of painkillers and the side affects from one of the anti-biotics...Now I have to find a decent dentist. There aren't many around here. And they want to check out a blocked saliver gland. Or that's their story. I'm having to sort out my brave head....
I'm sorry to hear that.Hope you're taking it easy.
User avatar
onebuttonmonkey
Committee Chair
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 8:04 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by onebuttonmonkey »

Well, I didn't mean to kick off a storm this morning. I only posted the link because I thought it did what it did very well - and having been on the other end of the, "yes, but Godzilla," argument a few times, I thought it was possibly the best-put Godzilla argument I'd encountered. As I knew it echoed what a number of you had said to me, I thought it would be enjoyed (the last paragraph is very good indeed). So I posted it, went off to work hell and came back here now and realised what I'd unintentionally helped to cause.

I did think hard about posting my own comments at the end, because, well. We've been over that ground, and I think we recognise where we do and don't agree over the question itself, as well as framing that question in that way. Still, I didn't realise it would lead to a bigger storm and I'm sorry for the argument I started.

@Tizme - I couldn't emigrate - my other passport is American, so it's already worse than UKIP and the Tories combined there, but I'd want to. Oh, how I'd want to, just not to there. So I'd go and spoil my ballot by writing "I wish I could emigrate," on it in that situation.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

The Ukip MEP for south-west England and Gibraltar and the party's spokesperson for trade, has told IBTimes UK that he supports the inclusion of the NHS and education in any free trade agreement negotiated between the EU and US.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ttip-exclusive ... al-1470790" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by PorFavor »

Goodnight, everyone.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

Mike Fraser retweeted
Northumberland Gaz ‏@alnwickgazette · 20m20 minutes ago
Batten down the hatches #northeasthour, #HurricaneGonzalo is on it's way tonight
http://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/ ... -1-6905440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Stay safe up there!
Take care... :hug:
seeingclearly
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2023
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by seeingclearly »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:I decided not to listen to the vilely-worded UKIP Calypso, but my alter-ears offspring has just done so. He reliably tells me it is a rip-off of Jamaica Farewell, beloved of many oldies around the world. No accident then. I'm hoping that they haven't done their homework, that someone still holds the rights, and it blows up in their faces. He also thought the words might breech the Equalities act, though these days half the country seems to do that.

On another matter, I hope those interested in ATOS caught the post about replacing them being delayed, and costing us yet more millions, because the DWP forgot that not only do ATOS deliver WCA, they also own the computers.

My fault if you did, for getting fed up of the 'all the same' argument, and getting in up to my ears. No apologies though, my social media is full of it every single day, and it is beyond tiresome. By my reckoning we must be nearly 8 years into the big labour hate, if you count from GB on.
Well well - if it is an unauthorised rip off I hope someone takes action about it. Frankly I have more expectation re someone taking action for a breach of copyright and getting some money off them ... than I do of an organisation or individual being minded to challenge them re Equalities breaches. That's the intensely sad place we are at now.
If there is a breach of copyright I reckon there would be a fair few Caribbean musicians who would back a case as a point of honour, Jamaica Farewll has a lot of symbolic value. Many 50s immigrants who came here in good faith never did get to return.

I agree though on your last point, intensely sad describes the loss of so much decency perfectly. :hug:
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.
Night PF :)
Temulkar
Secretary of State
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Temulkar »

onebuttonmonkey wrote:Well, I didn't mean to kick off a storm this morning. I only posted the link because I thought it did what it did very well - and having been on the other end of the, "yes, but Godzilla," argument a few times, I thought it was possibly the best-put Godzilla argument I'd encountered. As I knew it echoed what a number of you had said to me, I thought it would be enjoyed (the last paragraph is very good indeed). So I posted it, went off to work hell and came back here now and realised what I'd unintentionally helped to cause.

I did think hard about posting my own comments at the end, because, well. We've been over that ground, and I think we recognise where we do and don't agree over the question itself, as well as framing that question in that way. Still, I didn't realise it would lead to a bigger storm and I'm sorry for the argument I started.

@Tizme - I couldn't emigrate - my other passport is American, so it's already worse than UKIP and the Tories combined there, but I'd want to. Oh, how I'd want to, just not to there. So I'd go and spoil my ballot by writing "I wish I could emigrate," on it in that situation.
The problem for Labour is that if the Godzilla narrative is the tactic they are going to use, it is not going to win them Green voters. The more we hear it, the less disposed to Labour we become.

The only way to win green voters is to engage with them and offer them policies they can support instead of them voting Green.
User avatar
refitman
Site Admin
Posts: 7697
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by refitman »

Ukip Deputy Paul Nuttall Denies He Played Bungle The Bear In Kids TV Show Rainbow
Ukip deputy leader Paul Nuttall has denied being the actor who played Bungle the bear on 1970s and 1980s children's TV show Rainbow.

Nuttall was forced to deny rumours that he had worn a bear suit to play the clumsy, brown furry character after internet pranksters edited his Wikipedia page.

The page for the MEP was changed to say: “Nuttall was the original Bungle in children’s television show Rainbow.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10 ... 12832.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tee-hee
seeingclearly
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2023
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:24 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by seeingclearly »

Good night, PorFavor.
howsillyofme1
First Secretary of State
Posts: 3374
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Temulkar

I think I get it - you don't like Labour and you will not vote for them. Fair enough - I understand why but if the Green vote means a Tory Government then that will be very sad - you may not see the difference but I do and, sad to say, so does my family. The same way that Ralph Nader voters, whether they like it or not, gave us a George Bush presidency

This is the problem with FPTP - I would like to have other options than Labour but we have, in effect, a two party state and nothing will change unless we have proper PR and the English people (in particular) do not seem to want that

Can I just ask why you use 'we' so much - do you have a mandate to speak for all Green voters? I know Green voters who are from the ecofascist right - yes really (it has always had a connection to the Green movement and is completely nonsensical but they do exist) and others who are voting Labour to get the Tories out

How you use your vote is up to you and I respect your position; what I would suggest though is you don't (added in edit) use 'we' so much
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF :)
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

Farage's new pals get worse the more you read about them

UKIP’s new friends in Europe: “disabled shouldn’t be seen on television”
http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/10/2 ... elevision/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
TechnicalEphemera
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Temulkar wrote:
onebuttonmonkey wrote:Well, I didn't mean to kick off a storm this morning. I only posted the link because I thought it did what it did very well - and having been on the other end of the, "yes, but Godzilla," argument a few times, I thought it was possibly the best-put Godzilla argument I'd encountered. As I knew it echoed what a number of you had said to me, I thought it would be enjoyed (the last paragraph is very good indeed). So I posted it, went off to work hell and came back here now and realised what I'd unintentionally helped to cause.

I did think hard about posting my own comments at the end, because, well. We've been over that ground, and I think we recognise where we do and don't agree over the question itself, as well as framing that question in that way. Still, I didn't realise it would lead to a bigger storm and I'm sorry for the argument I started.

@Tizme - I couldn't emigrate - my other passport is American, so it's already worse than UKIP and the Tories combined there, but I'd want to. Oh, how I'd want to, just not to there. So I'd go and spoil my ballot by writing "I wish I could emigrate," on it in that situation.
The problem for Labour is that if the Godzilla narrative is the tactic they are going to use, it is not going to win them Green voters. The more we hear it, the less disposed to Labour we become.

The only way to win green voters is to engage with them and offer them policies they can support instead of them voting Green.
Undoubtedly true of the core vote, which is why historically I hated Lib Dems (marginal seats and all that). However from bitter campaign experience it works at the periphery. You can use this tactic to hold a party to its core vote, but you can't use it to break into that support.
Release the Guardvarks.
StephenDolan
First Secretary of State
Posts: 3725
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:15 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by StephenDolan »

refitman wrote:
Ukip Deputy Paul Nuttall Denies He Played Bungle The Bear In Kids TV Show Rainbow
Ukip deputy leader Paul Nuttall has denied being the actor who played Bungle the bear on 1970s and 1980s children's TV show Rainbow.

Nuttall was forced to deny rumours that he had worn a bear suit to play the clumsy, brown furry character after internet pranksters edited his Wikipedia page.

The page for the MEP was changed to say: “Nuttall was the original Bungle in children’s television show Rainbow.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10 ... 12832.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tee-hee
Excellent! :lol:
Same school as me for my sins.
Doing the maths one of my sisters would've been the same year as him.
User avatar
frightful_oik
Whip
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:45 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by frightful_oik »

Re Red vs Green

For me:
South Derbyshire.

Pro Green - they have mostly better policies than Labour
Con Green - they haven't a candidate here but may do, (despite being the 19th worst constituency for CO2 per dwelling.)
Pro Labour - they have a candidate in a classic 'through the middle' constituency.
Con Labour - too many Blairites hanging around like a bad smell.

I'll probably vote Labour even if the Greens put up a candidate because my loathing of the Tories and their UKIP mates is so strong that I really fear another 5 years of the bastards. If the polls change radically however anything's possible.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by HindleA »

Gosh ,fourty years ago yesterday that Keith Joseph made his "our human stock is threatened" speech.
Last edited by HindleA on Mon 20 Oct, 2014 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 11115
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

AngryAsWell wrote:Farage's new pals get worse the more you read about them

UKIP’s new friends in Europe: “disabled shouldn’t be seen on television”
http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/10/2 ... elevision/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They're utterly shameless - chasing the money and to hell with any moral stance.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

Something truly, excruciating, sickeningly, sordidly, cringingly, toe-curlingly awful is threatening to invade the music charts. Mike Read, once known as a DJ, has written a ‘Calypso’, and has recorded it, singing in a faux-Jamaican accent, to raise money for Ukip.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 07020.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ouch :lol: Brilliantly funny!
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
howsillyofme1
First Secretary of State
Posts: 3374
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Temulkar

Thank you for 'liking' my post.

I would say that I respect your position, and as I have said before, I could see myself voting Green but we need to change the electoral system first...until then there is only one choice - imperfect as most of us would agree it is
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

It's hard to distinguish between "better than the Tories" points and "good in their own right" points.

The fiscal policy (supposedly indistinguishable as all austerity) is a fair bit better, with investment exempted from the balance. I think the current balance is scheduled a couple of years too early, but beyond that surely it's an unobjectionable principle, not to borrow when the economy is growing for current spending.

Labour record on investment under Brown was actually much better than people think. The IFS had it by the end (albeit with some spending brought forward to help ward off a slump) at the highest in over 30 years.

Is that any good?
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Monday 20th October 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Farage's new pals get worse the more you read about them

UKIP’s new friends in Europe: “disabled shouldn’t be seen on television”
http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/10/2 ... elevision/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They're utterly shameless - chasing the money and to hell with any moral stance.
Although tactical voting can work, here in Bracknell I'm ashamed to say it looks as if UKIP is going to challenge the Tory Party but there is no way, as much as I hate the Tories, that I could vote for either.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Locked