Monday 27th October 2014

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:31 pm

Over to Johnny John Portes on Radio 4.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:32 pm

Never heard Portes speak before.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:33 pm

Radio 4 now 21:00

AnalysisInside Welfare Reform

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:36 pm

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour · 3h3 hours ago
Len McCluskey warned Miliband he will be in "dustbin of history if he gets seduced by the likes of Jim Murphy." JM odds-on Scots Lab leader.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:41 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour · 3h3 hours ago
Len McCluskey warned Miliband he will be in "dustbin of history if he gets seduced by the likes of Jim Murphy." JM odds-on Scots Lab leader.

John McTernan endorsing him too, no shock there, who reckons a candidate is needed who will appeal to middle class voters.

Good luck Neil Findlay.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:42 pm

I've just been retweeted by Adam Boulton. My life is now complete...

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:45 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour · 3h3 hours ago
Len McCluskey warned Miliband he will be in "dustbin of history if he gets seduced by the likes of Jim Murphy." JM odds-on Scots Lab leader.
John McTernan endorsing him too, no shock there, who reckons a candidate is needed who will appeal to middle class voters.

Good luck Neil Findlay.

Yep.

He's only going to be leader in Scotland. The worry over middle class votes seems to be more about England.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:45 pm

Sorry to hear your news Ernst. Don't let the bastards get to you.
Might cheer you up a bit...
Think of Nick Clegg speaking then look at this:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neville.kaye/GaF.gif
Perfect match!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:45 pm

Spacedone wrote:I've just been retweeted by Adam Boulton. My life is now complete...

Yes - be careful with the unfinished sentence Spacedone - someone might just finish it for you - and not in the way you might wish for ...

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:47 pm

Professor Harrington seems a decent sort.

No wonder he was ignored as assessor of WCA.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:48 pm

Spacedone wrote:I've just been retweeted by Adam Boulton. My life is now complete...

What did you say? (tweet)

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:50 pm

Spacedone wrote:I've just been retweeted by Adam Boulton. My life is now complete...

Any chance of an autograph?

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:50 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Spacedone wrote:I've just been retweeted by Adam Boulton. My life is now complete...
What did you say? (tweet)

Someone posted a Vine video of that jogger running into Cameron. My tweet was

"He's not a jogger, he's the delivery boy for the Leeds branch of Pasties Express. One x-large Cornish as ordered."

Apparently it tickled Adam...

Oh damn I'm leaving my sentences hanging again dangerously.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:51 pm

Straight-talking IDS and the DWP doing a lot of not talking at all when asked for comment by Portes.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:51 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
Spacedone wrote:I've just been retweeted by Adam Boulton. My life is now complete...
Any chance of an autograph?

No but I can do a handprint.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:01 pm

HaveIGotNewsForYou ‏@haveigotnews 52m52 minutes ago
Tories insist jogger who ‘shoved’ Cameron should pay him €2 billion in compensation by 1st December.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:02 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
HindleA wrote:J.Portes in the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This from LizzieD just about sums UC and the rest of IDS' vile work up.

Disabled people are going hungry and losing their homes, and nobody much cares. There is still, just about, the residue of a social care system that stops them littering the streets in very large numbers, even though the popular belief that there were many scroungers has turned out to be false. But the consequences of Universal Credit, when it dawns on people that they have been lied to, don't bear thinking
Still, it does predicate that UC could possibly work.

With the most recent report on the pathfinder phase being based on so few claims despite a cohort of 14,000 it seems unlikely. More credible is that a) UC will be left as a timebomb for any potential successor, b) if the Tories do manage to stay in office it will be used to dismantle what's left of social provision. In fact I have wondered for a while whether this is its real purpose.

If b) happens I'm not sure whether UC or the unknown is worse.

I'm getting impatient for Labour to come out all guns blazing, do they have a plan, or is this it?

(This strategy of relying on social media just ain't workin'.)
Look Labour isn't going to say they will scrap UC. There are 7 billion fantasy benefits they would have to fund by taxes or cuts.

They won't do it. The upside they point out IDS is a dick (everybody knows) and the downside they are lumbered with costs they don't want.

After the election they will review it, declare it a shambles and kill it.

I thought that Labour had already said, some time ago, that if elected they will call an immediate pause to UC while they carry out a six-month review into its progress and future. That sounds like an indication that it is at least possible that it be humanely destroyed.

And there were very very good reasons why the old single-payment scheme was divided out into separate payments. I remember that happening and it was an enormous relief when it did. Don't remember the year it happened, though.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:02 pm

Tentacle Sixteen ‏@latentexistence · 2h2 hours ago
Oh dear, @dwppressoffice just deleted some tweets...

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:02 pm

Dear Ernst - I'm so sorry that you've been pissed on from on high by what sounds like really awful people.

As one who got kicked in the balls, metaphorically of course, by a small manufacturing company in Peterborough and in similar circumstances, you have my real sympathy for the shock and betrayal you've experienced. Now just tell yourself that they're the losers and didn't deserve you. It worked for me.

Have a big hug in the meantime though.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:05 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
This from LizzieD just about sums UC and the rest of IDS' vile work up.
Still, it does predicate that UC could possibly work.

With the most recent report on the pathfinder phase being based on so few claims despite a cohort of 14,000 it seems unlikely. More credible is that a) UC will be left as a timebomb for any potential successor, b) if the Tories do manage to stay in office it will be used to dismantle what's left of social provision. In fact I have wondered for a while whether this is its real purpose.

If b) happens I'm not sure whether UC or the unknown is worse.

I'm getting impatient for Labour to come out all guns blazing, do they have a plan, or is this it?

(This strategy of relying on social media just ain't workin'.)
Look Labour isn't going to say they will scrap UC. There are 7 billion fantasy benefits they would have to fund by taxes or cuts.

They won't do it. The upside they point out IDS is a dick (everybody knows) and the downside they are lumbered with costs they don't want.

After the election they will review it, declare it a shambles and kill it.
I thought that Labour had already said, some time ago, that if elected they will call an immediate pause to UC while they carry out a six-month review into its progress and future. That sounds like an indication that it is at least possible that it be humanely destroyed.

I think that's the plan but when it's something that's had that much money wasted on it you need to have reasons for ending it, hence the review. I suspect the DWP shredders will be working overtime.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour · 3h3 hours ago
Len McCluskey warned Miliband he will be in "dustbin of history if he gets seduced by the likes of Jim Murphy." JM odds-on Scots Lab leader.
John McTernan endorsing him too, no shock there, who reckons a candidate is needed who will appeal to middle class voters.

Good luck Neil Findlay.
Yep.

He's only going to be leader in Scotland. The worry over middle class votes seems to be more about England.

I can't see Scottish Labour having Murphy.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:13 pm

I'd hope they wouldn't either.

It isn't just that he's on the right, it's that I've never seen him be any good. We're talking about taking on the SNP.

Who I'm finding out have a Boris-like capacity for cancelling transport schemes. Including Glasgow Crossrail which would by the sound of it help those Labour heartlands that they're supposedly doing better than Labour by.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:14 pm

From a few days ago but I've only just seen it - appalling!

Welfare minister Mark Harper rages at 'appalling' cheats pretending to be disabled to steal benefits in new crackdown on £1bn fraud and vows: 'We WILL catch you'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... efits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:17 pm

When is the SLP vote anyway?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:18 pm

Spacedone wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Spacedone wrote:I've just been retweeted by Adam Boulton. My life is now complete...
What did you say? (tweet)
Someone posted a Vine video of that jogger running into Cameron. My tweet was

"He's not a jogger, he's the delivery boy for the Leeds branch of Pasties Express. One x-large Cornish as ordered."

Apparently it tickled Adam...

Oh damn I'm leaving my sentences hanging again dangerously.

Boulton comes dangerously close to having a sense of humour sometimes. He once tweeted that he'd had to miss lunch because of something overrunning at the HoC (can't remember what it was now), so I delicately suggested that he could perhaps afford to miss the occasional meal; got a retweet and a favourite out of that one.

I find myself in the odd position of thinking Norman "The Chingford Skinhead" Tebbit may also possess a sense of humour too. Just finished watching the second part of "Jet! When Britain Ruled the Skies" on BBC4 which included Tebbit reminiscing about his time flying the Bristol Britannia for BOAC; it may be the first time I have ever seen him on TV without being tempted to throw a brick at it. Lovely programme though, and brought back childhood memories of flying on Comets and VC10s; wonderful aircraft, and much nicer than the tat the Americans built .....

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:24 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:When is the SLP vote anyway?

Scottish Labour Party.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:25 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:When is the SLP vote anyway?
Scottish Labour Party.

Yeah, Scottish Labour Party.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:27 pm

One for Ernst that I hope will cheer him on this horrible day.

Had a discussion with robust Green Party type I know (we have mutual friends). He made fair points about Brighton situation and the back equal pay claims they had to pay.

Said council would have gone bankrupt without them doing what they did there.

Funny, they didn't just say "bring it on", like the Greens you have to sit with, isn't it?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:29 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Tentacle Sixteen ‏@latentexistence · 2h2 hours ago
Oh dear, @dwppressoffice just deleted some tweets...

Would they be the ones that were supposed to be from satisfied "customers" that got sent out on the DWP account rather than the intended sockpuppet accounts? Watched that happen earlier today, the level of incompetence was astounding; they should give Rusty a call (he's only down the corridor, after all), he's good at sockpuppetry ...... most of the time!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:29 pm

This government needs to fundamentally change the way it treats disabled people
October 27, 2014 6:15 pm
By Stephen Timms and Kate Green
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/this-gove ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:31 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:When is the SLP vote anyway?
Scottish Labour Party.
Yeah, Scottish Labour Party.

Sometime in December I think, was just checking on LL to see and got distracted.... runs back to LL

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:33 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Scottish Labour Party.
Yeah, Scottish Labour Party.
Sometime in December I think, was just checking on LL to see and got distracted.... runs back to LL

Here ya go
Timetable for Scottish Labour leader selection announced
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/timetable ... announced/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:37 pm

@AAW, thank you.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:44 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:This government needs to fundamentally change the way it treats disabled people
October 27, 2014 6:15 pm
By Stephen Timms and Kate Green
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/this-gove ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder whether there's a silly language barrier on the WCA. Kate Green has a background in the area. The economic costs of the current system, which seems to be their focus, is obvious. I'd expect it to be significantly different.

Can't she call it something different?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:53 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:This government needs to fundamentally change the way it treats disabled people
October 27, 2014 6:15 pm
By Stephen Timms and Kate Green
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/this-gove ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wonder whether there's a silly language barrier on the WCA. Kate Green has a background in the area. The economic costs of the current system, which seems to be their focus, is obvious. I'd expect it to be significantly different.

Can't she call it something different?

Where's Rachel

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:54 pm

Indeed.

Just made that point on there!

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:55 pm

Poll at 10. Shocker for one party, and a boost for another, according to Smithson. Wtf that means I don't know.

Think we are getting close to tipping point.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:57 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:This government needs to fundamentally change the way it treats disabled people
October 27, 2014 6:15 pm
By Stephen Timms and Kate Green
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/this-gove ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wonder whether there's a silly language barrier on the WCA. Kate Green has a background in the area. The economic costs of the current system, which seems to be their focus, is obvious. I'd expect it to be significantly different.

Can't she call it something different?

There is a link in the above that take you to
http://www.independent.co.uk/voicess/co ... 65479.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Indi crashes my IE so am on Chrome trying to read it, but it seems there will be big differences and it is the language that's all wrong - again! When will they learn they need to speak with compassion as well as "be seen to be tough" ? Geerh

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:57 pm

Nah, just a poll, like any other.

I've seen too many non-gamechangers. The Budget, Cameron's speech, the EU veto.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:59 pm

HindleA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:This government needs to fundamentally change the way it treats disabled people
October 27, 2014 6:15 pm
By Stephen Timms and Kate Green
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/this-gove ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wonder whether there's a silly language barrier on the WCA. Kate Green has a background in the area. The economic costs of the current system, which seems to be their focus, is obvious. I'd expect it to be significantly different.

Can't she call it something different?

Where's Rachel

To be fair, Rachel is Work and Pensions, Kate Green is Disabilities - Sickness seems to have gone AWOL.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:00 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Nah, just a poll, like any other.

I've seen too many non-gamechangers. The Budget, Cameron's speech, the EU veto.

Tubby's been got! Do another post quick.......

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:03 pm

Two polls with Tories and Labour neck and neck.

Not very good.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:04 pm

Ha, ha, that was funny with my avatar.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:05 pm

If I were Kate Green I'd be livid if RR started making statements about my Brief.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:05 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Two polls with Tories and Labour neck and neck.

Not very good.

But after the week of shocking Labour news not that surprising.

Hardly a shocker though. All the other polls suggest it is close.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:10 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Indeed.

Just made that point on there!

It was a reference to your comment there

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:13 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:Not the best of days.

Really sorry to hear that, Ernst

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:17 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:If I were Kate Green I'd be livid if RR started making statements about my Brief.

More from Kate (who is the Shadow Spokesperson for disabled people, not Rachel Reeves)

"We are determined to ensure that a Labour government offers disabled people who can work the support they’d need to do so. We’ve already announced major reforms to the flawed Work Capability Assessment (WCA). It’s time to return the Work Capability Assessment to its original purpose, identifying the support a disabled person would need to be able to work. And this week, we’ve been explaining the changes we would make to replace the failing Work Programme so that employment support works more effectively for disabled people too.

It’s clear that a top-down centrally driven programme hasn’t worked. Labour will take a different approach. We will replace the Work Programme with new schemes that are contracted and managed at a much more local level, such as a city region, combined authority area or Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP). That will enable councils and local providers, who know the labour market and services best, to ensure that the right support is put in place to give people the best chance to secure local jobs."
http://labourlist.org/2014/10/under-dav ... ft-behind/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:18 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Poll at 10. Shocker for one party, and a boost for another, according to Smithson. Wtf that means I don't know.

Think we are getting close to tipping point.

Andrew Cooper ‏@AndrewzCooper 28s29 seconds ago
RT @Independent: Exclusive: Huge surge in Ukip support after EU’s £1.7bn demand http://ind.pn/1rwexxA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; <oh good grief

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:22 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Poll at 10. Shocker for one party, and a boost for another, according to Smithson. Wtf that means I don't know.

Think we are getting close to tipping point.
Andrew Cooper ‏@AndrewzCooper 28s29 seconds ago
RT @Independent: Exclusive: Huge surge in Ukip support after EU’s £1.7bn demand http://ind.pn/1rwexxA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; <oh good grief

Which illustrates how thick a fairly large percentage of voters are, fucking morons.