Monday 27th October 2014

Post by **refitman** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 7:27 am

Morning all.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:12 am

Morning all...

: camcarl.PNG (209.29 KiB) Viewed 20009 times

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Once again, bringing the name 'Wolfie' into disrespect...I really don't think they'd want me at one of their soirees' though

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3HHRe2i2E

Some quite odd and nefarious goings-on around the CSA Inquiry

To be fair to the Excess and the Heil, they're not letting up - if there is to be another HoC questioning of Woolf (which will, I think, focus on the bits she 'forgot' to mention...like knowing Brittan) how can May stay in place? (There is a theory that this has all been 'manufactured' to stop May becoming PM - not my theory, I hasten to add

)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ittan.html

Edited to add: The 'support' mentioned (from the Home Office) for the charity run by Sharon Evans includes funding from the MoJ, the Home Office and (as mentioned previously) the Office of the Lord Mayor of London...I'm sure I should know who that is...name escapes me

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:36 am

Good morning.

Today is the 100th anniversary of the birth of Dylan Thomas.
I've got a particular interest because I live a couple of minutes walk across the fields from Y Gelli, where Dylan & Caitlin stayed during part of WW2, and the beautiful Aeron valley was much loved by them both.

Don't worry, I'm not going to spout more Under Milk Wood, we've been spoon fed that by the BBC all year [good though it is].

We rarely hear about Dylan Thomas's political views, but he was a socialist, on the far left, so here's a couple of links if anyone's interested.

Poems to the People
http://socialistreview.org.uk/288/poems-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.dylanthomasboathouse.com/med ... ightly.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Red Dylan -The social vision of Dylan Thomas
http://www.socialismtoday.org/77/dylanthomas.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

part of a poem he wrote in the 1930's:

'Remember the procession of the old-young men
From dole queue to corner and back again,
From the pinched, packed streets to the peak of slag
In the bite of the winters with shovel and bag,
With a drooping fag and a turned up collar,
Stamping for the cold at the ill lit corner
Dragging through the squalor with their hearts like lead
Staring at the hunger and the shut pit-head
Nothing in their pockets, nothing home to eat.
Lagging from the slag heap to the pinched, packed street.
Remember the procession of the old-young men,
It shall never happen again.'

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:44 am

Almost 2 years ago to the week...OGRFG might regret giving this interview (given what has come to pass since)...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/vide ... are_btn_tw

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:47 am

Morning all.

Is Labour in trouble as a result of the apparent dysfunctionality of the party machine north of the border? I'm no fan of the constant criticisms of EMs leadership but, if Lamont is telling the truth about the bedroom tax and the sacking of Ian Price, then criticism seems to be warranted here.

How will he fix this?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:47 am

Thank you yahyah for that post on Dylan Thomas - centenary.

If we lived just that bit closer Mr Riots and I would have gone to Swansea to see Martin Rowson at the DylanFest ... it sounds as though he was very good and funny.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:50 am

JackPranker wrote:Morning all.

Is Labour in trouble as a result of the apparent dysfunctionality of the party machine north of the border? I'm no fan of the constant criticisms of EMs leadership but, if Lamont is telling the truth about the bedroom tax and the sacking of Ian Price, then criticism seems to be warranted here.

How will he fix this?

Lamont is clearly talking rubbish on the bedroom tax. Her claims do not stack up to even basic inspection.

The organisation would seem hideously broken.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:54 am

Maybe I'm naive [as always] but Welsh Labour seems to have its own 'brand' and leadership distinct from Westminster Labour.

Why is it so different, or perceived to be different, in Scotland ?

Previous Welsh Labour leader Rhodri Morgan was often a vocal critic of Blair's vision for public services and so called modernisation so maybe the umbilical cord was cut then, or earlier ?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:54 am

Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 1h1 hour ago
Ed Miliband wants Ukip to win in Rochester. http://tinyurl.com/py95woq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sick of socialism ‏@pabmanjo 1h1 hour ago
@DPJHodges one of the worst pieces of writing I have ever had the misfortune to read.

Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 1h1 hour ago
@pabmanjo Why.

Sick of socialism ‏@pabmanjo 1h1 hour ago
@DPJHodges because is is stating the bloody obvious.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:55 am

Channel 4 to stick with Benefits Street and Skint despite backlash
The broadcaster admits controversy has made producing similar shows harder but says such programming is essential
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/o ... t-defended

A senior Channel 4 executive has defended the documentaries Benefits Street and Skint, saying the broadcaster has no “malign intent” and is trying to tell stories about “some of the distressed parts of our society”.

Ralph Lee, Channel 4 deputy chief creative officer and head of factual, admitted the negative publicity surrounding the shows, dubbed “poverty porn” by critics, had made it harder to go out and make follow-up series. However, Lee said Channel 4 would not be cowed by the backlash, which he argues is “a form of censorship”

Deputy chief creative and head of factual all in one bod, eh? It's straight out of 2012. Bet he's got the poverty porn equivalent of 'amazeballs' written all the way through him ...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 8:58 am

joseph edwards retweeted
Gareth Thomas MP ‏@GarethThomasMP 15h15 hours ago
Osborne knew in January UK faced a higher EU Bill but said nothing...Makes Cameron's outrage seem a little synthetic http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... t-row.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:06 am

JackPranker wrote:Morning all.

Is Labour in trouble as a result of the apparent dysfunctionality of the party machine north of the border? I'm no fan of the constant criticisms of EMs leadership but, if Lamont is telling the truth about the bedroom tax and the sacking of Ian Price, then criticism seems to be warranted here.

How will he fix this?

Not sure the bedroom tax gagging stacks up - and don't know how the sacking of Ian Price came about. But yes, right now, that rift looks pretty bad and is going to need careful and brave handling to fix. A lot will rest on who emerges as the next leader of Scottish Labour and how the relationship is built back between them and Miliband and co. They should take this opportunity with a change of leader and the need to determine the shape of greater devolution to do a conscious rebuilding and reframing of the relationship between the two parties. I just don't know enough about Lamont's, or Miliband's, management style to understand what has gone on and how this has arisen.

What I do observe though ... is that Carwyn Jones seems to command respect and I've never really felt there was anything other than a mutually respectful relationship between him / Welsh Labour and the national party. How much that is because he is in power and always behaves very much as a First Minister - I'm not sure.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:23 am

Tim Montgomerie @montie · 2h 2 hours ago
Vote Tory because of Gove’s school reforms; May’s Home Office; IDS's vision; Grayling’s rehab agenda; Maude’s savings http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... nment.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Shudder at the thought. And from this flag up piece ...

...This week, ConservativeHome will be putting five Cabinet Ministers and their work under the microscope. Today, John Bald examines Michael Gove’s reforming legacy at Education. Tomorrow, I will write about Theresa May’s record at the Home Office. Later in the week will come pieces on Iain Duncan Smith’s push to get people back to work who Labour had given up on, Chris Grayling’s plans for more effective rehabilitation for prisoners, and Francis Maude’s Whitehall reforms.

Some of these plans may fail. Others, arguably, are mistaken (though this site is usually a supporter of them). But all are unmistakably a serious attempt by serious people to deliver serious change...

One thing that can't be argued with is the really radical, radical right wing that is, nature of this government's 'reforms'. That is part of our dissatisfaction with Labour's response so far ... which hasn't been radical enough - it's not matching the scale of horrors that has been visited on us .... and it really needs to in several areas.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:42 am

Good morning!

I have to agree with both Rebecca's and yahyah's posts regarding the distinction between Welsh Labour and the party in Scotland, I make no claims to know what is happening up there, and I will view any assertions that it is in danger of melt-down with a touch of salt. Never the less, Jones here does command a lot more respect that what anything Scotland has offered, Lamont never instilled much confidence in me, and her mouthing off this close to the election leaves me incredulous, I am not saying she shouldn't make her views known, far from it, but there's a time and a place. Some politicians think it's only about them, its not, it's about the people shitting themselves at the prospect of another 5 years of the most right wing government in my lifetime. Lamont, I wish, should shut up for the time being.

Anyway, don't know much about this guy but he seems to be getting a fair bit of support.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-eb ... E4QvtFybrf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:43 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Today, John Bald examines Michael Gove’s reforming legacy at Education.

The John Bald who posts as Quaestor on CiF and who is a Gove fanboy and hates local authorities?

That'll be fair and balanced then...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:52 am

J.Portes in the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:55 am

HindleA wrote:J.Portes in the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

His last paragraph is really quite seriously worrying, don't you think AH?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 9:56 am

http://labourlist.org/2014/10/fortune-i ... advantage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I quite enjoyed this piece from Stefan Stern on the opportunities for Labour as Dave tacks rightwards.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:00 am

Morning all

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:00 am

Chris Bryant @ChrisBryantMP · 7m 7 minutes ago
A story that opens a whole new can of worms
http://wp.me/p3kXx7-3m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:01 am

Owen Jones

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ish-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

grim-reaper-knocking-scottish-labour

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:02 am

: unnamed.png (25.41 KiB) Viewed 19719 times

Voters back modest tax rises to fund NHS
Yesterday we discovered that the public overwhelmingly believes the NHS needs more money spent on it, with only Conservative supporters thinking it could make do by cutting waste (YouGov's Stephan Shakespeare writes). But how much are they willing to pay?

Exclusively for Red Box, we asked a series of questions to see where resistance comes.

"If spending more money on the NHS was the only way to keep the current standard of services, would you be willing to see the basic rate of income tax rise from 20 per cent to 21 per cent to fund the NHS?" By 67 per cent to 19 per cent, the public says 'yes' (15 per cent 'don't know').

As we rise to 22 per cent tax, willingness drops to a still strong 51 to 29. At a 25 per cent level of basic income tax, the public resoundingly flips and says 'no' by 50 to 26. At a 30 per cent rate, those willing to support the extra tax dwindles to just 15 per cent.

YOUGOV

edit to add apology for skewing the page. Hopefully one of you technical people will re-size it....

Further edit - thanks Dan

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:06 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:http://labourlist.org/2014/10/fortune-i ... advantage/

I quite enjoyed this piece from Stefan Stern on the opportunities for Labour as Dave tacks rightwards.

Labour needs to take them, though. Many on the "minimalist" wing still cling to the Blairite "no enemies on our right" mantra.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:33 am

Leaked universal credit memo shows jobcentre staff struggling with rollout
Jobcentre whistleblower tells Dispatches that computerised benefits scheme is ‘unworkable, poorly designed and out of date’
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... me-rollout

The internal email, sent in late September and uncovered by Channel 4’s Dispatches as part of an investigation into UC to air on Monday evening, appears to show that one of the 60 centres where the scheme has been rolled out is generating such a substantial backlog of claims, centre staff will have to work three times more than their limit to clear it.

Pah... does she not understand that it is a success no matter what ... no arbitrary targets apply here .... believe those nasty backlogs away .... as IDS would say.

(This programme and the Jonathan Portes analysis of 'welfare reform' this week - we are really being treated.)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:37 am

Good morning.

Leaked universal credit memo shows jobcentre staff struggling with rollout
Jobcentre whistleblower tells Dispatches that computerised benefits scheme is ‘unworkable, poorly designed and out of date’

The memo, seen by the Guardian and titled: “Ideas please: Sinking”, appears to be a plea from a jobcentre manager to her staff for solutions to tackle an ever-growing workload brought about by the new system for delivering social security to more than 7 million people.

The internal email, sent in late September and uncovered by Channel 4’s Dispatches as part of an investigation into UC to air on Monday evening, appears to show that one of the 60 centres where the scheme has been rolled out is generating such a substantial backlog of claims, centre staff will have to work three times more than their limit to clear it.(Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... me-rollout

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:38 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Leaked universal credit memo shows jobcentre staff struggling with rollout
Jobcentre whistleblower tells Dispatches that computerised benefits scheme is ‘unworkable, poorly designed and out of date’
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... me-rollout

The internal email, sent in late September and uncovered by Channel 4’s Dispatches as part of an investigation into UC to air on Monday evening, appears to show that one of the 60 centres where the scheme has been rolled out is generating such a substantial backlog of claims, centre staff will have to work three times more than their limit to clear it.
Pah... does she not understand that it is a success no matter what ... no arbitrary targets apply here .... believe those nasty backlogs away .... as IDS would say.

(This programme and the Jonathan Portes analysis of 'welfare reform' this week - we are really being treated.)

Snap, whoops etc, etc!

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:38 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Owen Jones

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ish-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

grim-reaper-knocking-scottish-labour

I agree with the analysis, charismatic and left wing is the answer in Scotland. The national
Party can use Scottish and Welsh policy outriders on the left as testing grounds for what might work for English Labour.

The campaign in 2015 should centre around the fact the Nats can't be bothered to stand up for Scotland in Westminster. That only works if Scottish Labour are articulating a left wing vision worth defending.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:46 am

HindleA wrote:J.Portes in the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This from LizzieD just about sums UC and the rest of IDS' vile work up.

Disabled people are going hungry and losing their homes, and nobody much cares. There is still, just about, the residue of a social care system that stops them littering the streets in very large numbers, even though the popular belief that there were many scroungers has turned out to be false. But the consequences of Universal Credit, when it dawns on people that they have been lied to, don't bear thinking

Still, it does predicate that UC could possibly work.

With the most recent report on the pathfinder phase being based on so few claims despite a cohort of 14,000 it seems unlikely. More credible is that a) UC will be left as a timebomb for any potential successor, b) if the Tories do manage to stay in office it will be used to dismantle what's left of social provision. In fact I have wondered for a while whether this is its real purpose.

If b) happens I'm not sure whether UC or the unknown is worse.

I'm getting impatient for Labour to come out all guns blazing, do they have a plan, or is this it?

(This strategy of relying on social media just ain't workin'.)

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:47 am

If the tories in the Labour Party did decide to proceed with stabbing Ed Miliband in the back in the next few months,, ensuring a Tory Government in 2015, rather than having "the wrong Brother" in charge, who do they honestly see as their new NuLabour Leader? Did they really send "the really wrong brother" to the States to keep a low profile until the "right brother" could be got rid of?

I'd really be interested to hear who else, other than "the wrong brother" (IMHO), NuLabour would put up. Please don't suggest Andy Burnham who fails to charm me even when I've been feet away from him on three occasions!

I can't think of anyone on the Labour front bench who has as much character as Ed Miliband and would be as capable as him of pulling off a win for the Labour Party from the dead hole it was in at the last election.

I'm hoping Anatoly will also come back with a response to letsskiptotheleft's query about the Scottish man above. I dread the thought of Jim Murphy getting anywhere near "power" in Scotland, particularly if I decide to make my home in Inverness where I was born and still have a few relatives!!!!

(Apologies about wrong and right brother but I've been reading through Jamie what's his name comment profile - you know, the chap with a really determined hatred of EdM but an extreme adoration of DavidM!).

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:53 am

giselle97 wrote:If the tories in the Labour Party did decide to proceed with stabbing Ed Miliband in the back in the next few months,, ensuring a Tory Government in 2015, rather than having "the wrong Brother" in charge, who do they honestly see as their new NuLabour Leader? Did they really send "the really wrong brother" to the States to keep a low profile until the "right brother" could be got rid of?

I'd really be interested to hear who else, other than "the wrong brother" (IMHO), NuLabour would put up. Please don't suggest Andy Burnham who fails to charm me even when I've been feet away from him on three occasions!

I can't think of anyone on the Labour front bench who has as much character as Ed Miliband and would be as capable as him of pulling off a win for the Labour Party from the dead hole it was in at the last election.

I'm hoping Anatoly will also come back with a response to letsskiptotheleft's query about the Scottish man above. I dread the thought of Jim Murphy getting anywhere near "power" in Scotland, particularly if I decide to make my home in Inverness where I was born and still have a few relatives!!!!

(Apologies about wrong and right brother but I've been reading through Jamie what's his name comment profile - you know, the chap with a really determined hatred of EdM but an extreme adoration of DavidM!).

Ed is the only possibility. His brother isn't right for the job at all. I worry about the people around him though, there is something untoward about the party itself right now, where are his inside supporters? Worrying.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:57 am

giselle97 wrote:If the tories in the Labour Party did decide to proceed with stabbing Ed Miliband in the back in the next few months,, ensuring a Tory Government in 2015, rather than having "the wrong Brother" in charge, who do they honestly see as their new NuLabour Leader? Did they really send "the really wrong brother" to the States to keep a low profile until the "right brother" could be got rid of?

I'd really be interested to hear who else, other than "the wrong brother" (IMHO), NuLabour would put up. Please don't suggest Andy Burnham who fails to charm me . . . .

I can't think of anyone on the Labour front bench who has as much character as Ed Miliband and would be as capable as him of pulling off a win for the Labour Party from the dead hole it was in at the last election.

Agreed. And they'd have to stagger along without my paltry (but frequent) donations if they ditched Ed Miliband. Oh - and my membership subscription. Ed Miliband has been a breath of fresh air and was the reason I rejoined the Labour Party having previously resigned after getting on for 25 years' membership, canvassing, leafletting etc, etc.

He's not perfect - but dear god, what a step in the right direction and a beacon of hope he is!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:59 am

seeingclearly wrote:
giselle97 wrote:If the tories in the Labour Party did decide to proceed with stabbing Ed Miliband in the back in the next few months,, ensuring a Tory Government in 2015, rather than having "the wrong Brother" in charge, who do they honestly see as their new NuLabour Leader? Did they really send "the really wrong brother" to the States to keep a low profile until the "right brother" could be got rid of?

I'd really be interested to hear who else, other than "the wrong brother" (IMHO), NuLabour would put up. Please don't suggest Andy Burnham who fails to charm me even when I've been feet away from him on three occasions!

I can't think of anyone on the Labour front bench who has as much character as Ed Miliband and would be as capable as him of pulling off a win for the Labour Party from the dead hole it was in at the last election.

I'm hoping Anatoly will also come back with a response to letsskiptotheleft's query about the Scottish man above. I dread the thought of Jim Murphy getting anywhere near "power" in Scotland, particularly if I decide to make my home in Inverness where I was born and still have a few relatives!!!!

(Apologies about wrong and right brother but I've been reading through Jamie what's his name comment profile - you know, the chap with a really determined hatred of EdM but an extreme adoration of DavidM!).
Ed is the only possibility. His brother isn't right for the job at all. I worry about the people around him though, there is something untoward about the party itself right now, where are his inside supporters? Worrying.

This is the concern. You look at who is in the shadow cabinet, there's very few (any?) that you feel would go to bat for Miliband. Combine that with the perception of fear running through them in case they say something that the media might not like and it's increasingly grim.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:08 pm

I don't really like Jim Murphy.

He may be Scottish Labour's least worst option right now, however - and it has to mean he would never lead the GB-wide party. Silver lining there, surely?

As for D Miliband, his time has come and gone. Mrs Balls would be the choice of the Blairites/minimalists (with their would be puppet Umunna having shown his total lack of readiness *or* substance recently) To say I am deeply underwhelmed by that prospect is considerably understating it

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:14 pm

I've just looked up the Shadow Cabinet Sorry, can't seem to do links. Is this part of EdM trying to be in the spotlight and keeping others in the background, thus giving the appearance of being glued together?

There isn't one name on that list which provides the next leader of a left of centre party.

Isn't the invisible Douglas Alexander supposed to be in charge of getting the Labour Party re-elected because I hardly recall seeing him?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:16 pm

Most people disagree with you on Burnham, tbf - myself included. Is the country ready for a Scouse PM, though?

After him, its hopefully Stella Creasy - who has the potential to be an all-time great IMO. Sits for Attlee's old seat, too......

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't like Jim Murphy.

He may be Scottish Labour's least worst option right now, however - and it means he would never lead the GB-wide party. Silver lining there, surely?

Not sure he'd help the situation. Parachuting in a Westminster Labour MP to take over the SLab leadership could (and probably would) be seen as an installation rather than a election. I know some are saying that Salmond was a Westminster MP when he took over the SNP leadership but it doesn't take long to see that the comparison may be factually correct but totally devoid of nuance.

I think the SLab party need to promote from within and re-engage with disaffected Labour supporters north of the border. Rejecting all but one of the proposed powers on offer for further devolution (and that with restrictions) is unlikely to do that.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:20 pm

Murphy (or any other MP who is elected) would transfer to Holyrood next May, if not before.

Maybe its my not being based in Scotland, but I genuinely don't see it as a serious issue.

Gray and Lamont were MSPs - they were also (the former especially) manifestly not up to the job. That did Scottish Labour more harm, surely?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:25 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
giselle97 wrote:If the tories in the Labour Party did decide to proceed with stabbing Ed Miliband in the back in the next few months,, ensuring a Tory Government in 2015, rather than having "the wrong Brother" in charge, who do they honestly see as their new NuLabour Leader? Did they really send "the really wrong brother" to the States to keep a low profile until the "right brother" could be got rid of?

I'd really be interested to hear who else, other than "the wrong brother" (IMHO), NuLabour would put up. Please don't suggest Andy Burnham who fails to charm me even when I've been feet away from him on three occasions!

I can't think of anyone on the Labour front bench who has as much character as Ed Miliband and would be as capable as him of pulling off a win for the Labour Party from the dead hole it was in at the last election.

I'm hoping Anatoly will also come back with a response to letsskiptotheleft's query about the Scottish man above. I dread the thought of Jim Murphy getting anywhere near "power" in Scotland, particularly if I decide to make my home in Inverness where I was born and still have a few relatives!!!!

(Apologies about wrong and right brother but I've been reading through Jamie what's his name comment profile - you know, the chap with a really determined hatred of EdM but an extreme adoration of DavidM!).
Ed is the only possibility. His brother isn't right for the job at all. I worry about the people around him though, there is something untoward about the party itself right now, where are his inside supporters? Worrying.
This is the concern. You look at who is in the shadow cabinet, there's very few (any?) that you feel would go to bat for Miliband. Combine that with the perception of fear running through them in case they say something that the media might not like and it's increasingly grim.

The two names that keep coming up and have done for months are Balls and Reeves. Both very visible. There also seems to be a problem where people have very little faith in their existing Labour MPs. I can't grumble about mine, he's old school but backs his constituents. I do hear what is happening to others though and the failure to assist in some cases is desperately negligent. There's a real feeling that people want a good clear out. Ed needs more people around him who don't look like careerists or hangers-on. And those people need more visibility, so people out there, voters, can identify with them.

So who are they?

The people who get a lot of respect are Glenda, Harry, Ann Begg, and the Beast! But where are the young people who really impress? I like Kate Green".......

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:28 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
HindleA wrote:J.Portes in the Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This from LizzieD just about sums UC and the rest of IDS' vile work up.

Disabled people are going hungry and losing their homes, and nobody much cares. There is still, just about, the residue of a social care system that stops them littering the streets in very large numbers, even though the popular belief that there were many scroungers has turned out to be false. But the consequences of Universal Credit, when it dawns on people that they have been lied to, don't bear thinking
Still, it does predicate that UC could possibly work.

With the most recent report on the pathfinder phase being based on so few claims despite a cohort of 14,000 it seems unlikely. More credible is that a) UC will be left as a timebomb for any potential successor, b) if the Tories do manage to stay in office it will be used to dismantle what's left of social provision. In fact I have wondered for a while whether this is its real purpose.

If b) happens I'm not sure whether UC or the unknown is worse.

I'm getting impatient for Labour to come out all guns blazing, do they have a plan, or is this it?

(This strategy of relying on social media just ain't workin'.)

Look Labour isn't going to say they will scrap UC. There are 7 billion fantasy benefits they would have to fund by taxes or cuts.

They won't do it. The upside they point out IDS is a dick (everybody knows) and the downside they are lumbered with costs they don't want.

After the election they will review it, declare it a shambles and kill it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:28 pm

Off-topic but this might cheer up a few of us . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... s?index=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

although I don't approve of breeding hairless cats, one of which is featured in the gallery.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:30 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
seeingclearly wrote: Ed is the only possibility. His brother isn't right for the job at all. I worry about the people around him though, there is something untoward about the party itself right now, where are his inside supporters? Worrying.
This is the concern. You look at who is in the shadow cabinet, there's very few (any?) that you feel would go to bat for Miliband. Combine that with the perception of fear running through them in case they say something that the media might not like and it's increasingly grim.
The two names that keep coming up and have done for months are Balls and Reeves. Both very visible. There also seems to be a problem where people have very little faith in their existing Labour MPs. I can't grumble about mine, he's old school but backs his constituents. I do hear what is happening to others though and the failure to assist in some cases is desperately negligent. There's a real feeling that people want a good clear out. Ed needs more people around him who don't look like careerists or hangers-on. And those people need more visibility, so people out there, voters, can identify with them.

So who are they?

The people who get a lot of respect are Glenda, Harry, Ann Begg, and the Beast! But where are the young people who really impress? I like Kate Green".......

Balls and Reeves have zero chance.

Andy Burnham is the obvious front runner.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:35 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: This is the concern. You look at who is in the shadow cabinet, there's very few (any?) that you feel would go to bat for Miliband. Combine that with the perception of fear running through them in case they say something that the media might not like and it's increasingly grim.
The two names that keep coming up and have done for months are Balls and Reeves. Both very visible. There also seems to be a problem where people have very little faith in their existing Labour MPs. I can't grumble about mine, he's old school but backs his constituents. I do hear what is happening to others though and the failure to assist in some cases is desperately negligent. There's a real feeling that people want a good clear out. Ed needs more people around him who don't look like careerists or hangers-on. And those people need more visibility, so people out there, voters, can identify with them.

So who are they?

The people who get a lot of respect are Glenda, Harry, Ann Begg, and the Beast! But where are the young people who really impress? I like Kate Green".......
Balls and Reeves have zero chance.

Andy Burnham is the obvious front runner.

I like the Eagle sisters. But we're back in "the wrong . . . " territory, so perhaps not!

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:36 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Murphy (or any other MP who is elected) would transfer to Holyrood next May, if not before.

Maybe its my not being based in Scotland, but I genuinely don't see it as a serious issue.

Gray and Lamont were MSPs - they were also (the former especially) manifestly not up to the job. That did Scottish Labour more harm, surely?

Lamont "resigns" citing Westminster interference in the Scottish Labour Party and then Murphy takes over? A bit like saying there's no one else, you've just grown apart, then moving in with another partner the following week?

I agree that Murphy may be better than some of the recent crop (Lamont was execrable (Lamontable?) during the referendum imo) but Labour HQ will have to tread very carefully here.

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:36 pm

Really appreciate those two responses you gave Anatoly.

I know I'm on the opposite side of many, including in my CLP, when I mention my nervousness about Andy Burnham. He impressed me with his vigourous support when we met in Lord Hunt's office after handing in the last "hospital closure" petition to no10 but, aside from health, I haven't heard him speak on anything. Maybe I should get out more!

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:42 pm

giselle97 wrote:I've just looked up the Shadow Cabinet Sorry, can't seem to do links. Is this part of EdM trying to be in the spotlight and keeping others in the background, thus giving the appearance of being glued together?

There isn't one name on that list which provides the next leader of a left of centre party.

Isn't the invisible Douglas Alexander supposed to be in charge of getting the Labour Party re-elected because I hardly recall seeing him?

A long conversation with a very pro-Labour friend led to a conclusion that someone isn't doing their job. It's not just the media hostility.

I read somewhere about the emphasis being on social media, but tbh every Labour posting I've seen has been flooded with haters, the posts themselves are informative and well designed, but they're the equivalent of disease carriers, full of trolls.

Labour need to be in the media, even if portrayed in a negative light, and be prepared to come out fighting, there's more than enough ammunition to be going on with.

(BTW was rather concerned for Caroline Flint, she's usually quite good, but she seemed very unwell on QT,)

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:42 pm

PorFavor wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Andy Burnham is the obvious front runner.
I like the Eagle sisters. But we're back in "the wrong . . . " territory, so perhaps not!

Umunna, imo. Burnham's tainted as Brown's Treasury Secretary and Mid-Staffs (both wrongly) and has apologised to so many people over the years he's mooted to star in a BBC remake as Timothy Lumsden in an up-to-dating of "Sorry" called "Non-Apology Apology".

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:47 pm

Oh, I didn't mean Ball or Reeves as an alternative, people loathe them! I'm marginally more generous, Reeves at least has youth to blame!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:53 pm

If I were Labour I'd be waiting until after the Rochester by-election then starting the GE campaign in earnest. Before then, they've got the troublesome South Yorks PCC election (too close to call?) to deal with as well the Scottish leadership.

On Rochester, Reckless is looking ever more likely to win judging by the bookies. The Tories will look a right mess as a result and Labour could and should present a united front around their, IMO, clear and sensible set of six policies.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:56 pm

Danny Blanchflower ‏@D_Blanchflower 8m8 minutes ago
Blow for Cameron as Dutch suggest they will pay EU surcharge oops http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/poli ... 249221.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:56 pm

PorFavor wrote:Off-topic but this might cheer up a few of us . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... s?index=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

although I don't approve of breeding hairless cats, one of which is featured in the gallery.

That's not a cat, it's Yoda!

I like the Eagle sisters too.