Thursday 30th October 2014

Post by **refitman** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:28 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:32 am

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 29th Oct

Con 31%,
Lab 34%,
LD 6%,
UKIP 17%;

APP -28

Phew hopefully this will settle nerves for Labour supporters.

The same poll has Greens on 7% and ahead of the Libs for the first time ever on Yougov

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:32 am

Morning.

Lib-Dems drop to 5th place in YouGov poll. Labour 3 points ahead.

CON 31%
LAB 34%
LD 6%
UKIP 17%
GRN 7%

And the Groan is full of yet more "Get Ed" articles. Quelle surprise.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:32 am

Oh and Good Morning!

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:33 am

Pipped to the post... as it were.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:34 am

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 7m7 minutes ago
EXCL: Blow for Clegg as Greens push Lib Dems into fifth place in landmark @YouGov poll: http://bit.ly/1zg907l" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:34 am

Morning Spacedone - I think that one bears repeating and was indeed posted several times last night as well

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:36 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Phew hopefully this will settle nerves for Labour supporters.

Not BTL at the Guardian. Some formerly sensible posters are now firmly on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon, apparently blissfully unaware that that bandwagon has been driven by the Conservatives ever since Miliband won the leadership contest. It seems to be true that if you repeat something often enough some people will believe it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:47 am

Morning.

A taste of just how awful the Guardian UK site will be when they go fully Beta, as they've launched the US version today.

Their spiel made me laugh:

The Guardian unveils newly redesigned theguardian.com to US readers
Redesigned theguardian.com launches to US audience of 27 million unique users
New site designed in the open with reader feedback at its heart*
Groundbreaking ‘container’ layout reflects how people consume news, rather than how journalists categorize it
New site boasts industry-leading page load times
Responsive design offers a cleaner and more consistent reading experience across all platforms and increased creative options for advertisers

* Translation: 'We drove our readers mad for months by using them as guinea pigs and ignored their complaints that the system was unusable and ugly.

http://www.theguardian.com/us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 8:01 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

A taste of just how awful the Guardian UK site will be when they go fully Beta, as they've launched the US version today.

Their spiel made me laugh:
<snip>
New site designed in the open with reader feedback at its heart*
Groundbreaking ‘container’ layout reflects how people consume news, rather than how journalists categorize it
New site boasts industry-leading page load times

<snip>

http://www.theguardian.com/us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could be talking about flythenest there.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 8:20 am

-28 approval is very low isn't it?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 8:25 am

Morning all. Not a good morning for the Lib Dems. That poll ...

And I see there is great renting of clothes over at LDV as yet another person leaves the party 'over the toleration by some members of appalling racism towards Africans' and Caron thinks it may be her fault (that reads like an Archers intro, sorry).

On making LDV more inclusive
Today has not been a good day. It’s not a good feeling when you discover that someone has left the party over something you did, as Lester Holloway has done. I hope that he reconsiders his decision...
http://www.libdemvoice.org/on-making-ld ... 43117.html

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 8:31 am

I love this BTL response to the challenge of 'making LDV more inclusive' - re the previous post - http://www.libdemvoice.org/on-making-ld ... 43117.html

Given LDV is “by and for Lib Dem supporters” how about we make the comments section for LD supporters only?

I rarely read the comments on threads as most non-members are trolls letting off steam – and if I want to read troll comments, there’s always the Guardian website.

Think of how much better the comments sections will be if only LD supporters are posting. We’d spend far less time, energy and effort dealing with trolls if we just keep them off the site. It would also allow intelligent debate which would worthwhile reading.

That'll solve their lack of women posting problem like a shot, don't you think? Not to mention do away with the tricky problem of any dissension rearing its ugly head.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 8:50 am

I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 8:59 am

refitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.

I thought all Webb was doing was trying to establish whether Baker was speaking as a LibDem or a member of the government - Baker couldn't really answer that one it seemed to me anyway.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 9:01 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
refitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.
I thought all Webb was doing was trying to establish whether Baker was speaking as a LibDem or a member of the government - Baker couldn't really answer that one it seemed to me anyway.

It was more when he moved onto the Tory speaker. He made a big thing about 'evidence-based policy', implying that this is something the Tories are unaware of.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 9:06 am

refitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.

I heard that as well....following on from last weeks' 'we really need urgently to have a massive re-organisation of the NHS otherwise it won't survive' (after voting for the Health and Social Care Act in 2012 - so what was that for, exactly?) we get '40 years of 'there is no alternative' to the 'war on drugs' has not been helpful as of course there is an alternative'...it is interesting that they (Crosbys' cretins) let him loose in the media with his 'discredited' and 'loony left' ideas though

Morning all...

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 9:26 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Phew hopefully this will settle nerves for Labour supporters.
Not BTL at the Guardian. Some formerly sensible posters are now firmly on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon, apparently blissfully unaware that that bandwagon has been driven by the Conservatives ever since Miliband won the leadership contest. It seems to be true that if you repeat something often enough some people will believe it.
Well, it may have been driven by the Conservatives but it's been happily adopted across the MSM, including the BBC, as orthodoxy. Any mention of Ed and the words 'weird' and 'unelectable' usually aren't far away. It reached a nadir for me during conference season when the usually sensible comedian John Finnemore devoted half a routine to Miliband 'forgetting to mention the economy' (which of course wasn't what happened at all).

I'm more in the "sack Balls and everything will be all right" (probably, eventually) school of thought, but the recent discussions on who might be the next leader have brought into sharp focus just how little real, heavyweight talent there is on the Labour frontbench.

It has become a bit of an oddity, the whole 'Miliband is crap' thing. The MSM onslaught has definitely worked in the sense that, as said above, formerly erudite people now have an automatic response to the name - fly into a low level state of derisory indignation that anyone could possibly even think that Mr Ed* could have something useful to offer (on any level anywhere evaahhh) and continue to talk/screech with ever more volume and speed until the idiot that's had the temerity to mention the name gives up....therefore making the position of the Screecher 'right' (in more than one sense). It's as though the 'now' has taken over...no past, no future, just now - the election is in 6 months, but that's tomorrow in Now World, so what you think now will what you think in the now of then.

*been thinking about that nickname for a while - not sure that it would work due to it's complex nature...'Why the long face, Mr Ed?'...insert any pithy destruction of the MSM/BBC/Coalition propaganda (ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Ed - not sure who'd be 'Wilbur', though - so many accident prone anti-human dipshits to choose from

)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 9:53 am

Anyway, Jim Murphy has confirmed he is standing for the Scottish Labour leadership. Nothing much to object to in what he has said so far.......

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 10:08 am

Two thoughts on this - I really hope it becomes something lethally damaging to Dodgy Daves' career - but I rather doubt it....and, sharing a cell with Coulson? They definitely won't be supporting each other with the 'we didn't do nuffink wrong, it wos them big boys wot told us to' - no no no - absolutely not. Nice that they can still continue their careers from the inside...and I'm absolutely certain, beyond any doubt evaahhh whatsoevaahhh - it'll be the fault of the horrible nasty Labour Party and that ridiculous Mr Ed. (Joke, natch

)

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/ ... -surprise/

All not going particularly well for Uncle Rupe however - Panorama next week...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04p1zlb

...about this 'journalist'...

http://pressganguk.wordpress.com/2014/0 ... mahmood-2/

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 10:27 am

It's all gone very quiet on the CSA Inquiry...yesterdays' deadline of 12 noon for Woolf to respond to the letter from the HASC came and went with not so much as a murmur...it's become the thing that no-one will talk about (no MSM coverage at all today, it seems)...but of course, the cat is out of the bag, the can lies lidless on the floor and the worms are everywhere - and the Survivors are gathering momentum. It could be the quiet before the storm, of course - Exaro and many other interested organisations have been saying for some time that 'massive shocks' (in terms of arrests, etc) are imminent - perhaps we're finally getting close to that time.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 10:30 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I love this BTL response to the challenge of 'making LDV more inclusive' - re the previous post - http://www.libdemvoice.org/on-making-ld ... 43117.html

Given LDV is “by and for Lib Dem supporters” how about we make the comments section for LD supporters only?

I rarely read the comments on threads as most non-members are trolls letting off steam – and if I want to read troll comments, there’s always the Guardian website.

Think of how much better the comments sections will be if only LD supporters are posting. We’d spend far less time, energy and effort dealing with trolls if we just keep them off the site. It would also allow intelligent debate which would worthwhile reading.
That'll solve their lack of women posting problem like a shot, don't you think? Not to mention do away with the tricky problem of any dissension rearing its ugly head.

If they wish to exclude non-members they could always post in the Members-only section of their petty little site !

edit - forgot to say Good Morning, all.

Further edit: I posted a comment on that piece - it's awaiting moderation. How very liberal of them !

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 10:33 am

RobertSnozers wrote:I've just read Maureen Lipman's article on why she's no longer supporting Labour, and all I can say is 'good'. She clearly still has fond memories of Blair and admits to admiring Frank Field which puts her firmly in the DFH camp of Labour 'support' anyway. But worst of all in this case, she equates recognising the state of Palestine with anti-Jewish abuse in France while repeating the fallacious line that the Palestinians don't accept Israel's right to exist. Her 'argument' is that Miliband needs to do this to shore up his support in the unions.

So I have no regrets in saying goodbye to the idiot Lipman, and wish that the door may not hit her too hard on the way out.

If I said the name Maureen Lipman to my children, 28 & 23yrs, they would say "who ?"

Lipman is another has-been & her pathetic attack on Ed by mentioning how she couldn't ever consider voting for any of the current front-benchers, revealed how Blairite she was thus making her so-called 'socialist' beliefs very questionable indeed.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 11:29 am

Well well, Rowena Mason may have her uses after all.

While I was rifling through the archives, I also came across Cameron’s leadership acceptance speech from the same year, in which he did not mention immigration once as a problem facing Britain. Nothing on Europe in there either.

Here's the speech she mentions (from 2005)

http://www.britishpoliticalspeech.org/s ... speech=315

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 11:57 am

pk1 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:I've just read Maureen Lipman's article on why she's no longer supporting Labour, and all I can say is 'good'. She clearly still has fond memories of Blair and admits to admiring Frank Field which puts her firmly in the DFH camp of Labour 'support' anyway. But worst of all in this case, she equates recognising the state of Palestine with anti-Jewish abuse in France while repeating the fallacious line that the Palestinians don't accept Israel's right to exist. Her 'argument' is that Miliband needs to do this to shore up his support in the unions.

So I have no regrets in saying goodbye to the idiot Lipman, and wish that the door may not hit her too hard on the way out.
If I said the name Maureen Lipman to my children, 28 & 23yrs, they would say "who ?"

Lipman is another has-been & her pathetic attack on Ed by mentioning how she couldn't ever consider voting for any of the current front-benchers, revealed how Blairite she was thus making her so-called 'socialist' beliefs very questionable indeed.

Maureen Lipman is far from a has-been, she still remains one of this country's finest comic actresses; but that is all she is, an actress, and her opinion should carry no more weight than yours or mine. The fact that so much is being made of her stance says much about the celebrity driven culture we now live in, a fact she has previously bemoaned, so there is more than a little hypocrisy in her public condemnation of the Labour Party.

“I rather liked David Miliband and have a sneaking suspicion he may return strengthened by his time out in the real world. But this lot? The Chuka Harman Burnham Hunt Balls brigade? I can't, in all seriousness, go into a booth and put my mark on any one of them.”

Hands up anybody who has said exactly that (apart from the David bit) here this week? As both lonewolfie and spacedone have pointed out people are leaping on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon everywhere, I was saddened to see that tendency had spread here too. If even FTN has swallowed Lynton's lies then this country really is doomed to five more years of Cameron.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 12:13 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Maureen Lipman is far from a has-been, she still remains one of this country's finest comic actresses; but that is all she is, an actress, and her opinion should carry no more weight than yours or mine. The fact that so much is being made of her stance says much about the celebrity driven culture we now live in, a fact she has previously bemoaned, so there is more than a little hypocrisy in her public condemnation of the Labour Party.

“I rather liked David Miliband and have a sneaking suspicion he may return strengthened by his time out in the real world. But this lot? The Chuka Harman Burnham Hunt Balls brigade? I can't, in all seriousness, go into a booth and put my mark on any one of them.”
Hands up anybody who has said exactly that (apart from the David bit) here this week? As both lonewolfie and spacedone have pointed out people are leaping on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon everywhere, I was saddened to see that tendency had spread here too. If even FTN has swallowed Lynton's lies then this country really is doomed to five more years of Cameron.

tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.

I'm not sure FTN was taking part in a 'sack Ed' bandwagon - I read it more as a 'if the media succeed in getting Ed sacked, who is realistically likely to get the big job' but again, I may have read it wrong.

Whatever happens in May 2015, I & millions of others will be voting for my local Labour candidate. Here's hoping there will be sufficient numbers in the right places doing the same thing so that the current occupier of No 10 is evicted.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 12:21 pm

For those interested.

"Thirty years of independent living for people with disabilities"

http://www.theguardian.com/social-care- ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theguardian.com/social-care- ... sabilities" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 12:29 pm

pk1 wrote:tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.

No, I get that, she's not as visible as she once was; but she is still very active on stage and on the radio, both of which always suited her better anyway.

pk1 wrote:I'm not sure FTN was taking part in a 'sack Ed' bandwagon - I read it more as a 'if the media succeed in getting Ed sacked, who is realistically likely to get the big job' but again, I may have read it wrong.

Or I may have read it wrong, much more likely. But Monday on here made for very uncomfortable reading, at least from my viewpoint.

pk1 wrote:Whatever happens in May 2015, I & millions of others will be voting for my local Labour candidate. Here's hoping there will be sufficient numbers in the right places doing the same thing so that the current occupier of No 10 is evicted.

I'd like to think so, but I'm growing less optimistic by the day. People are swallowing the lies - people here are swallowing the lies - and I'm far from sanguine about the outcome; I've said before I would not survive five more years of Tory misrule, it is getting to the stage where I'm not sure I can even be bothered to last out until next May.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 12:40 pm

pk1 wrote:Well well, Rowena Mason may have her uses after all

James Cracknell (no, not that one) fancies her

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 12:46 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.
No, I get that, she's not as visible as she once was; but she is still very active on stage and on the radio, both of which always suited her better anyway.
pk1 wrote:I'm not sure FTN was taking part in a 'sack Ed' bandwagon - I read it more as a 'if the media succeed in getting Ed sacked, who is realistically likely to get the big job' but again, I may have read it wrong.
Or I may have read it wrong, much more likely. But Monday on here made for very uncomfortable reading, at least from my viewpoint.

pk1 wrote:Whatever happens in May 2015, I & millions of others will be voting for my local Labour candidate. Here's hoping there will be sufficient numbers in the right places doing the same thing so that the current occupier of No 10 is evicted.
I'd like to think so, but I'm growing less optimistic by the day. People are swallowing the lies - people here are swallowing the lies - and I'm far from sanguine about the outcome; I've said before I would not survive five more years of Tory misrule, it is getting to the stage where I'm not sure I can even be bothered to last out until next May.

As I read it Mondays discussion was pointing out the sheer impossibility of replacing Ed with any credible candidate before the GE. There is a whole set of policy in place, and loads more coming; so whoever took over would have to take the lot and go with it.

It is also a long way from the election, and despite the rubbish in the papers Labour's strategy has placed them as the only centre left party against one right wing corpse, one very right wing party and one extreme right wing party.

You have to believe in an election campaign the policy platform that allows, compared to the opposition will be enough.

The wild card is Scotland. That needs crisis management to mitigate the SNP damage. This is of course being addressed (how well we will see).

I think Ed will do well in the campaign, it is going to brutal and UKIP will result in some odd results. But again 1 in 10 2010 Labour voters are Kippers, 1 in 5 2010 Tory voters are Kippers.

Cameron would probably kill to have Ed Milibands problems right now.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 1:02 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:As I read it Mondays discussion was pointing out the sheer impossibility of replacing Ed with any credible candidate before the GE.

Whatever the conclusion reached, even here there was a serious discussion about the possibility (desirability even, from some posters) of replacing Ed. If Crosby has managed to sow sufficient doubt in the minds of relatively well informed and politically sophisticated posters on a left leaning forum, to the extent they can be having that conversation, then how much more deep rooted are the doubts in the minds of the bulk of the electorate?

Sure we all know, intellectually at least, that the reason for these attacks is because Miliband scares the Tories and scares the MSM (which is why Ed Balls, who I know many here despise, attracts similar opprobrium - he terrifies Gideon, which is why he is still on the front bench); but emotionally it seems some are not so convinced.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 1:11 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
pk1 wrote:Well well, Rowena Mason may have her uses after all
James Cracknell (no, not that one) fancies her

First chuckle of the day - thanks for that !

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:04 pm

Christ.

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll

SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:17 pm

John Prescott @johnprescott · 6h 6 hours ago
I've got an ology in Social Justice. That's why I recognise Palestine as a state.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:19 pm

Jeez - only just noticed I'm Home Secretary. Next one who criticises Ed on here I'm bringing the water cannon out. This is home security RR2 style.

Editing to add: Don't suppose there's a 'smiley' available to deliver a full on blast of water cannon? Just wondering.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:21 pm

I don't care if it's not really him tweeting this stuff. Whoever it is - they're funny.

John Prescott @johnprescott · 17h 17 hours ago
“@Number10gov: We are celebrating the people & projects in the infrastructure industry. Tell us how you are #BuildingBritian” < It's BRITAIN

John Prescott @johnprescott · 17h 17 hours ago
.@Number10gov Which BritIan are you building? Ian Beale? Duncan Smith? @IanMcKellen? Is he flat pack? #BuildingBritian

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:22 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll

SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%

Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:24 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll

SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%
Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?

This is post referendum high plus Labour are currently leaderless in Scotland.

At some point normal politics will to an extent be resumed. The SNP are the government.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:29 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll

SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%
Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?

Well indeed.

Lots of "can't be worse than the others" rubbish.
Lib Dem stuff.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:30 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.

Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?
This is post referendum high plus Labour are currently leaderless in Scotland.

At some point normal politics will to an extent be resumed. The SNP are the government.

They are but they can do the old "Westminster cuts" stuff.
Wld be more cuts in an independent Scotland at the moment.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:32 pm

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 10m 10 minutes ago
Electoral Calculus has LAB down to just 4 Scots MPs if it votes at GE15 as in today's Ipsos-MORI Scotland poll.

Hmmmm. Whoever wins that leadership contest has got a huge job to do. Wasn't particularly convinced by Murphy on WATO - he said he would change his / Scottish Labour's tone ... to less focus on jousting with the SNP and Westminster to more listening to the Scottish public. Have Scottish Labour not been doing that? 6 months till the election is leaving it a bit late.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:39 pm

Danny Blanchflower ‏@D_Blanchflower 1h1 hour ago Park Ridge, IL
BCC wage survey 34% firms paying > inflation 25%=inflation 12% <inflation 23% at zero 2% fallen 4% dk so 2/3rds workers no real wage growth

Or indeed 37-34 going down, v up, with 25 staying the same.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:46 pm

Bedroom tax victims are the real losers of the EU referendum bill's death
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... referendum

Goes into the machinations that have stopped the progress of both bills. Not quite as the spoof script the other day set it out ... but pretty damn close.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 3:00 pm

Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago
This morning Simon Hughes claimed there have been pilots into the probation sell-off. There haven't. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago

Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago
He said serious offenders would still be dealt with by public probation service. That is false. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago
He claimed the independent inspector had not complained. He releases his report in December. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

So that's three deeply misleading statements in the space of two sentences. Impressive level of efficiency http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

The linked piece is a shocking and good report of what has gone on. NAPO are preparing for a judicial challenge.

I heard Simon Hughes spouting his spiel on Radio 4 this morning. Went off to work spitting about it - having heard the interview with a serving probation officer before it which was absolutely damning of what has been going on under Grayling - and the seriously worrying implications for public safety.

I do hope Hughes is going to experience a Portillo moment. He thoroughly deserves it.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 3:08 pm

refitman wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
refitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.
I thought all Webb was doing was trying to establish whether Baker was speaking as a LibDem or a member of the government - Baker couldn't really answer that one it seemed to me anyway.
It was more when he moved onto the Tory speaker. He made a big thing about 'evidence-based policy', implying that this is something the Tories are unaware of.

Evidence-based is a buzz word now. It's becoming a euphemism for keeping your eyes tightly shut to the evidence in front of your eyes, and avoid having to draw any independent conclusion by referring/deferring to a pre-set generic often homogenised set of criteria. It's sort of 'anti-evidence'. Most of the scientific discoveries of the 17-20th centuries could be rendered invalid by it.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 3:18 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll

SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%

How does that tally with the Scottish referendum percentages?

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 3:19 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Jeez - only just noticed I'm Home Secretary. Next one who criticises Ed on here I'm bringing the water cannon out. This is home security RR2 style.

Editing to add: Don't suppose there's a 'smiley' available to deliver a full on blast of water cannon? Just wondering.

Best I can do...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 3:23 pm

JackPranker wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Jeez - only just noticed I'm Home Secretary. Next one who criticises Ed on here I'm bringing the water cannon out. This is home security RR2 style.

Editing to add: Don't suppose there's a 'smiley' available to deliver a full on blast of water cannon? Just wondering.
Best I can do...

That is bloody brilliant Jack.

Can someone with the FTN permissions and tecchy skills 'capture' it for us to use, please, please.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 4:19 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.
No, I get that, she's not as visible as she once was; but she is still very active on stage and on the radio, both of which always suited her better anyway.
pk1 wrote:I'm not sure FTN was taking part in a 'sack Ed' bandwagon - I read it more as a 'if the media succeed in getting Ed sacked, who is realistically likely to get the big job' but again, I may have read it wrong.
Or I may have read it wrong, much more likely. But Monday on here made for very uncomfortable reading, at least from my viewpoint.

pk1 wrote:Whatever happens in May 2015, I & millions of others will be voting for my local Labour candidate. Here's hoping there will be sufficient numbers in the right places doing the same thing so that the current occupier of No 10 is evicted.
I'd like to think so, but I'm growing less optimistic by the day. People are swallowing the lies - people here are swallowing the lies - and I'm far from sanguine about the outcome; I've said before I would not survive five more years of Tory misrule, it is getting to the stage where I'm not sure I can even be bothered to last out until next May.

Hence my posts of yesterday. I don't understand this, and it's driving me a little bit nuts that the lies are more real to people than what is actually happening. Sometimes I think it because even language does not elicidate, everyone is getting drawn into logical conundrums that they have to interpret for themselves. When they do so its easier to slip into the known than the unknown, and out come the propaganda paradigms. Reliance on memory of actual events is now outmoded.

I'll give a small non political example. Nurses around here are now experimenting, because they have been instructed to, to deliver IM injections faster, because it causes less pain. It also causes a lot of bruising leading to achy arms and bums, which the nurses mostly don't see. If you mention this it is dismissed as subjective and anecdotal. Yet these same nurses, who have delivered careful injections for years once knew why they did that, but still are amazed that more people are complaining about bruises. This they put down to being a sign of the times, and people being more anxious. (True story, much discussed, if anecdotal.)

Extend this kind of weird non-critical illogic thinking into our national political life. It's as if people who once could work things out for themselves are now so confused they are reaching for incantations. So, defying logic, the greens could win the election, and Alec Salmond could deliver utopian measures of social justice.

I've engaged with people who I otherwise really respect and like on these issues. They aren't stupid and they aren't disengaged. At the risk of sounding bonkers, I'd say they are brainwashed. Perhaps we all are, to a greater or lesser degree, to even think we can change any outcomes, even on a small level.

That is not to say I don't have the greatest respect for those engaged in single issue politics, which I think is probably least affected by the nonsense, because it is largely based on protecting something at risk. Hence too the huge pro-democracy movements. Most, sadly, infiltrated and neutralised.

I wish we could argue for the protection of the Labour Party and truly democratic socialism, like we can argue for sealcubs or tuna or badgers, then people might have rallied. They are, simply put, not responding to fear, but are choosing illusions of hope.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 30 Oct, 2014 4:58 pm

Fay Tuncay ‏@faykellytuncay 1h1 hour ago
@NadineDorriesMP @MarkTyrrellUKIP 38,000 Ukip members want to #RepealClimateAct Dorries avoids climate question - might lose her seat too.

Nadine Dorries MPVerified account
‏@NadineDorriesMP
@faykellytuncay @MarkTyrrellUKIP I might lose my seat? Well, cheers mystic Meg!

Fay Tuncay ‏@faykellytuncay 25m25 minutes ago
@NadineDorriesMP @MarkTyrrellUKIP Join Ukip and keep it. We need you.

Brainwashed sounds about right for rather a lot of people according to this.