Thursday 30th October 2014
Posted: Thu 30 Oct, 2014 7:28 am
Morning all.
Not BTL at the Guardian. Some formerly sensible posters are now firmly on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon, apparently blissfully unaware that that bandwagon has been driven by the Conservatives ever since Miliband won the leadership contest. It seems to be true that if you repeat something often enough some people will believe it.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Phew hopefully this will settle nerves for Labour supporters.
Could be talking about flythenest there.yahyah wrote:Morning.
A taste of just how awful the Guardian UK site will be when they go fully Beta, as they've launched the US version today.
Their spiel made me laugh:
<snip>
New site designed in the open with reader feedback at its heart*
Groundbreaking ‘container’ layout reflects how people consume news, rather than how journalists categorize it
New site boasts industry-leading page load times
<snip>
http://www.theguardian.com/us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On making LDV more inclusive
Today has not been a good day. It’s not a good feeling when you discover that someone has left the party over something you did, as Lester Holloway has done. I hope that he reconsiders his decision...
http://www.libdemvoice.org/on-making-ld ... 43117.html
That'll solve their lack of women posting problem like a shot, don't you think? Not to mention do away with the tricky problem of any dissension rearing its ugly head.Given LDV is “by and for Lib Dem supporters” how about we make the comments section for LD supporters only?
I rarely read the comments on threads as most non-members are trolls letting off steam – and if I want to read troll comments, there’s always the Guardian website.
Think of how much better the comments sections will be if only LD supporters are posting. We’d spend far less time, energy and effort dealing with trolls if we just keep them off the site. It would also allow intelligent debate which would worthwhile reading.
I thought all Webb was doing was trying to establish whether Baker was speaking as a LibDem or a member of the government - Baker couldn't really answer that one it seemed to me anyway.refitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.
It was more when he moved onto the Tory speaker. He made a big thing about 'evidence-based policy', implying that this is something the Tories are unaware of.RogerOThornhill wrote:I thought all Webb was doing was trying to establish whether Baker was speaking as a LibDem or a member of the government - Baker couldn't really answer that one it seemed to me anyway.refitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.
I heard that as well....following on from last weeks' 'we really need urgently to have a massive re-organisation of the NHS otherwise it won't survive' (after voting for the Health and Social Care Act in 2012 - so what was that for, exactly?) we get '40 years of 'there is no alternative' to the 'war on drugs' has not been helpful as of course there is an alternative'...it is interesting that they (Crosbys' cretins) let him loose in the media with his 'discredited' and 'loony left' ideas thoughrefitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.
It has become a bit of an oddity, the whole 'Miliband is crap' thing. The MSM onslaught has definitely worked in the sense that, as said above, formerly erudite people now have an automatic response to the name - fly into a low level state of derisory indignation that anyone could possibly even think that Mr Ed* could have something useful to offer (on any level anywhere evaahhh) and continue to talk/screech with ever more volume and speed until the idiot that's had the temerity to mention the name gives up....therefore making the position of the Screecher 'right' (in more than one sense). It's as though the 'now' has taken over...no past, no future, just now - the election is in 6 months, but that's tomorrow in Now World, so what you think now will what you think in the now of then.RobertSnozers wrote:Well, it may have been driven by the Conservatives but it's been happily adopted across the MSM, including the BBC, as orthodoxy. Any mention of Ed and the words 'weird' and 'unelectable' usually aren't far away. It reached a nadir for me during conference season when the usually sensible comedian John Finnemore devoted half a routine to Miliband 'forgetting to mention the economy' (which of course wasn't what happened at all).Spacedone wrote:Not BTL at the Guardian. Some formerly sensible posters are now firmly on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon, apparently blissfully unaware that that bandwagon has been driven by the Conservatives ever since Miliband won the leadership contest. It seems to be true that if you repeat something often enough some people will believe it.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Phew hopefully this will settle nerves for Labour supporters.
I'm more in the "sack Balls and everything will be all right" (probably, eventually) school of thought, but the recent discussions on who might be the next leader have brought into sharp focus just how little real, heavyweight talent there is on the Labour frontbench.
If they wish to exclude non-members they could always post in the Members-only section of their petty little site !rebeccariots2 wrote:I love this BTL response to the challenge of 'making LDV more inclusive' - re the previous post - http://www.libdemvoice.org/on-making-ld ... 43117.html
That'll solve their lack of women posting problem like a shot, don't you think? Not to mention do away with the tricky problem of any dissension rearing its ugly head.Given LDV is “by and for Lib Dem supporters” how about we make the comments section for LD supporters only?
I rarely read the comments on threads as most non-members are trolls letting off steam – and if I want to read troll comments, there’s always the Guardian website.
Think of how much better the comments sections will be if only LD supporters are posting. We’d spend far less time, energy and effort dealing with trolls if we just keep them off the site. It would also allow intelligent debate which would worthwhile reading.
If I said the name Maureen Lipman to my children, 28 & 23yrs, they would say "who ?"RobertSnozers wrote:I've just read Maureen Lipman's article on why she's no longer supporting Labour, and all I can say is 'good'. She clearly still has fond memories of Blair and admits to admiring Frank Field which puts her firmly in the DFH camp of Labour 'support' anyway. But worst of all in this case, she equates recognising the state of Palestine with anti-Jewish abuse in France while repeating the fallacious line that the Palestinians don't accept Israel's right to exist. Her 'argument' is that Miliband needs to do this to shore up his support in the unions.
So I have no regrets in saying goodbye to the idiot Lipman, and wish that the door may not hit her too hard on the way out.
Here's the speech she mentions (from 2005)While I was rifling through the archives, I also came across Cameron’s leadership acceptance speech from the same year, in which he did not mention immigration once as a problem facing Britain. Nothing on Europe in there either.
Maureen Lipman is far from a has-been, she still remains one of this country's finest comic actresses; but that is all she is, an actress, and her opinion should carry no more weight than yours or mine. The fact that so much is being made of her stance says much about the celebrity driven culture we now live in, a fact she has previously bemoaned, so there is more than a little hypocrisy in her public condemnation of the Labour Party.pk1 wrote:If I said the name Maureen Lipman to my children, 28 & 23yrs, they would say "who ?"RobertSnozers wrote:I've just read Maureen Lipman's article on why she's no longer supporting Labour, and all I can say is 'good'. She clearly still has fond memories of Blair and admits to admiring Frank Field which puts her firmly in the DFH camp of Labour 'support' anyway. But worst of all in this case, she equates recognising the state of Palestine with anti-Jewish abuse in France while repeating the fallacious line that the Palestinians don't accept Israel's right to exist. Her 'argument' is that Miliband needs to do this to shore up his support in the unions.
So I have no regrets in saying goodbye to the idiot Lipman, and wish that the door may not hit her too hard on the way out.
Lipman is another has-been & her pathetic attack on Ed by mentioning how she couldn't ever consider voting for any of the current front-benchers, revealed how Blairite she was thus making her so-called 'socialist' beliefs very questionable indeed.
Hands up anybody who has said exactly that (apart from the David bit) here this week? As both lonewolfie and spacedone have pointed out people are leaping on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon everywhere, I was saddened to see that tendency had spread here too. If even FTN has swallowed Lynton's lies then this country really is doomed to five more years of Cameron.“I rather liked David Miliband and have a sneaking suspicion he may return strengthened by his time out in the real world. But this lot? The Chuka Harman Burnham Hunt Balls brigade? I can't, in all seriousness, go into a booth and put my mark on any one of them.”
tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Maureen Lipman is far from a has-been, she still remains one of this country's finest comic actresses; but that is all she is, an actress, and her opinion should carry no more weight than yours or mine. The fact that so much is being made of her stance says much about the celebrity driven culture we now live in, a fact she has previously bemoaned, so there is more than a little hypocrisy in her public condemnation of the Labour Party.
Hands up anybody who has said exactly that (apart from the David bit) here this week? As both lonewolfie and spacedone have pointed out people are leaping on the "sack Ed and everything will be alright" bandwagon everywhere, I was saddened to see that tendency had spread here too. If even FTN has swallowed Lynton's lies then this country really is doomed to five more years of Cameron.“I rather liked David Miliband and have a sneaking suspicion he may return strengthened by his time out in the real world. But this lot? The Chuka Harman Burnham Hunt Balls brigade? I can't, in all seriousness, go into a booth and put my mark on any one of them.”
No, I get that, she's not as visible as she once was; but she is still very active on stage and on the radio, both of which always suited her better anyway.pk1 wrote:tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.
Or I may have read it wrong, much more likely. But Monday on here made for very uncomfortable reading, at least from my viewpoint.pk1 wrote:I'm not sure FTN was taking part in a 'sack Ed' bandwagon - I read it more as a 'if the media succeed in getting Ed sacked, who is realistically likely to get the big job' but again, I may have read it wrong.
I'd like to think so, but I'm growing less optimistic by the day. People are swallowing the lies - people here are swallowing the lies - and I'm far from sanguine about the outcome; I've said before I would not survive five more years of Tory misrule, it is getting to the stage where I'm not sure I can even be bothered to last out until next May.pk1 wrote:Whatever happens in May 2015, I & millions of others will be voting for my local Labour candidate. Here's hoping there will be sufficient numbers in the right places doing the same thing so that the current occupier of No 10 is evicted.
James Cracknell (no, not that one) fancies herpk1 wrote:Well well, Rowena Mason may have her uses after all
As I read it Mondays discussion was pointing out the sheer impossibility of replacing Ed with any credible candidate before the GE. There is a whole set of policy in place, and loads more coming; so whoever took over would have to take the lot and go with it.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:No, I get that, she's not as visible as she once was; but she is still very active on stage and on the radio, both of which always suited her better anyway.pk1 wrote:tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.Or I may have read it wrong, much more likely. But Monday on here made for very uncomfortable reading, at least from my viewpoint.pk1 wrote:I'm not sure FTN was taking part in a 'sack Ed' bandwagon - I read it more as a 'if the media succeed in getting Ed sacked, who is realistically likely to get the big job' but again, I may have read it wrong.
I'd like to think so, but I'm growing less optimistic by the day. People are swallowing the lies - people here are swallowing the lies - and I'm far from sanguine about the outcome; I've said before I would not survive five more years of Tory misrule, it is getting to the stage where I'm not sure I can even be bothered to last out until next May.pk1 wrote:Whatever happens in May 2015, I & millions of others will be voting for my local Labour candidate. Here's hoping there will be sufficient numbers in the right places doing the same thing so that the current occupier of No 10 is evicted.
Whatever the conclusion reached, even here there was a serious discussion about the possibility (desirability even, from some posters) of replacing Ed. If Crosby has managed to sow sufficient doubt in the minds of relatively well informed and politically sophisticated posters on a left leaning forum, to the extent they can be having that conversation, then how much more deep rooted are the doubts in the minds of the bulk of the electorate?TechnicalEphemera wrote:As I read it Mondays discussion was pointing out the sheer impossibility of replacing Ed with any credible candidate before the GE.
First chuckle of the day - thanks for that !AnatolyKasparov wrote:James Cracknell (no, not that one) fancies herpk1 wrote:Well well, Rowena Mason may have her uses after all
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll
SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%
John Prescott @johnprescott · 6h 6 hours ago
I've got an ology in Social Justice. That's why I recognise Palestine as a state.
John Prescott @johnprescott · 17h 17 hours ago
“@Number10gov: We are celebrating the people & projects in the infrastructure industry. Tell us how you are #BuildingBritian” < It's BRITAIN
John Prescott @johnprescott · 17h 17 hours ago
.@Number10gov Which BritIan are you building? Ian Beale? Duncan Smith? @IanMcKellen? Is he flat pack? #BuildingBritian
Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll
SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%
This is post referendum high plus Labour are currently leaderless in Scotland.Willow904 wrote:Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll
SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%
Well indeed.Willow904 wrote:Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll
SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%
They are but they can do the old "Westminster cuts" stuff.TechnicalEphemera wrote:This is post referendum high plus Labour are currently leaderless in Scotland.Willow904 wrote:Is nationalism catching or something? First Ukip, now this. How do people think isolationism and lower taxes is going to make their lives better (unless they're the top 1% of course)?Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.
At some point normal politics will to an extent be resumed. The SNP are the government.
Hmmmm. Whoever wins that leadership contest has got a huge job to do. Wasn't particularly convinced by Murphy on WATO - he said he would change his / Scottish Labour's tone ... to less focus on jousting with the SNP and Westminster to more listening to the Scottish public. Have Scottish Labour not been doing that? 6 months till the election is leaving it a bit late.Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 10m 10 minutes ago
Electoral Calculus has LAB down to just 4 Scots MPs if it votes at GE15 as in today's Ipsos-MORI Scotland poll.
Or indeed 37-34 going down, v up, with 25 staying the same.Danny Blanchflower @D_Blanchflower 1h1 hour ago Park Ridge, IL
BCC wage survey 34% firms paying > inflation 25%=inflation 12% <inflation 23% at zero 2% fallen 4% dk so 2/3rds workers no real wage growth
Goes into the machinations that have stopped the progress of both bills. Not quite as the spoof script the other day set it out ... but pretty damn close.Bedroom tax victims are the real losers of the EU referendum bill's death
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... referendum
The linked piece is a shocking and good report of what has gone on. NAPO are preparing for a judicial challenge.Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago
This morning Simon Hughes claimed there have been pilots into the probation sell-off. There haven't. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago
Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago
He said serious offenders would still be dealt with by public probation service. That is false. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 3h 3 hours ago
He claimed the independent inspector had not complained. He releases his report in December. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
So that's three deeply misleading statements in the space of two sentences. Impressive level of efficiency http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/10/ ... n-sell-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Evidence-based is a buzz word now. It's becoming a euphemism for keeping your eyes tightly shut to the evidence in front of your eyes, and avoid having to draw any independent conclusion by referring/deferring to a pre-set generic often homogenised set of criteria. It's sort of 'anti-evidence'. Most of the scientific discoveries of the 17-20th centuries could be rendered invalid by it.refitman wrote:It was more when he moved onto the Tory speaker. He made a big thing about 'evidence-based policy', implying that this is something the Tories are unaware of.RogerOThornhill wrote:I thought all Webb was doing was trying to establish whether Baker was speaking as a LibDem or a member of the government - Baker couldn't really answer that one it seemed to me anyway.refitman wrote:I have to say, Norman Baker did quite well on Today, talking about the Home Office drugs report. Also, Justin Webb did a nice turn driving a wedge between the coalition parties.
How does that tally with the Scottish referendum percentages?Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ.
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 1m1 minute ago
SNP at 52% in Scotland according to new Ipsos-MORI poll
SNP 52%
LAB 23%
CON 10%
GRN 6%
LD 6%
Best I can do...rebeccariots2 wrote:Jeez - only just noticed I'm Home Secretary. Next one who criticises Ed on here I'm bringing the water cannon out. This is home security RR2 style.
Editing to add: Don't suppose there's a 'smiley' available to deliver a full on blast of water cannon? Just wondering.
That is bloody brilliant Jack. Can someone with the FTN permissions and tecchy skills 'capture' it for us to use, please, please.JackPranker wrote:Best I can do...rebeccariots2 wrote:Jeez - only just noticed I'm Home Secretary. Next one who criticises Ed on here I'm bringing the water cannon out. This is home security RR2 style.
Editing to add: Don't suppose there's a 'smiley' available to deliver a full on blast of water cannon? Just wondering.
Hence my posts of yesterday. I don't understand this, and it's driving me a little bit nuts that the lies are more real to people than what is actually happening. Sometimes I think it because even language does not elicidate, everyone is getting drawn into logical conundrums that they have to interpret for themselves. When they do so its easier to slip into the known than the unknown, and out come the propaganda paradigms. Reliance on memory of actual events is now outmoded.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:No, I get that, she's not as visible as she once was; but she is still very active on stage and on the radio, both of which always suited her better anyway.pk1 wrote:tbh, I haven't heard of her since the 'ology' & TV ads for BT but then I'm not a great TV viewer & find most 'comedy's' to be utter tripe so I may have been speaking out of turn. My point about her with regard to today's young people, remains however.Or I may have read it wrong, much more likely. But Monday on here made for very uncomfortable reading, at least from my viewpoint.pk1 wrote:I'm not sure FTN was taking part in a 'sack Ed' bandwagon - I read it more as a 'if the media succeed in getting Ed sacked, who is realistically likely to get the big job' but again, I may have read it wrong.
I'd like to think so, but I'm growing less optimistic by the day. People are swallowing the lies - people here are swallowing the lies - and I'm far from sanguine about the outcome; I've said before I would not survive five more years of Tory misrule, it is getting to the stage where I'm not sure I can even be bothered to last out until next May.pk1 wrote:Whatever happens in May 2015, I & millions of others will be voting for my local Labour candidate. Here's hoping there will be sufficient numbers in the right places doing the same thing so that the current occupier of No 10 is evicted.
Brainwashed sounds about right for rather a lot of people according to this.Fay Tuncay @faykellytuncay 1h1 hour ago
@NadineDorriesMP @MarkTyrrellUKIP 38,000 Ukip members want to #RepealClimateAct Dorries avoids climate question - might lose her seat too.
Nadine Dorries MPVerified account
@NadineDorriesMP
@faykellytuncay @MarkTyrrellUKIP I might lose my seat? Well, cheers mystic Meg!
Fay Tuncay @faykellytuncay 25m25 minutes ago
@NadineDorriesMP @MarkTyrrellUKIP Join Ukip and keep it. We need you.