Saturday 1st & Sunday 2nd November 2014

[LadyCentauria]

Legal aid cuts denied mother a fair hearing, says senior judge
‘If legal aid is being refused to people such as this, I am satisfied that injustices will occur,’ say family court judge Louise Hallam
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/nov ... ise-hallam
A senior family court judge has condemned the injustice of the newly pared-back legal aid system after an illiterate mother of four, with poor sight and hearing, was forced to represent herself in a court hearing over the custody of her children.

In an unusual step, Judge Louise Hallam warned that the woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was not being given the opportunity of a fair trial and that she believed others around the country were also being let down.

Hallam told the hearing: “If legal aid is being refused to people such as this, I am satisfied that injustices will occur … Mothers in her situation should have proper and full access to the court with the assistance of legal advice.”...

Our criminal justice system is now criminal in itself How can it be right that 6 out of 10 parents have no legal representation in cases involving their children!? How can any of these reforms be fair when they lock whole swathes of the population out of the courts unless they are prepared (and able) to represent themselves!? Sickening and terribly worrying.

Have you read the Frederick Wilmot-Smith piece from the LRB that @HindleA linked to last night? http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n21/frederick- ... r-ideology As he said, it is long but well worth reading.

Seemingly, we are being steered into a future based on the lyric of that popular hymn:
The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them high and lowly
And ordered their estate...

[Willow904]

how do universities contribute to GDP if they are funded by the state

The state is still GDP. Or am I missing your point, Willow?

No, I'm just being thick. I forgot Blair "grew" the sector. Higher education is big business these days, not a public service. I still think of uni as being an extension of schools and colleges and those aren't part of GDP, surely. I was just temporarily seeing the world as I think it should be, rather than as it is!

[RogerOThornhill]

how do universities contribute to GDP if they are funded by the state

The state is still GDP. Or am I missing your point, Willow?

No, I'm just being thick. I forgot Blair "grew" the sector. Higher education is big business these days, not a public service. I still think of uni as being an extension of schools and colleges and those aren't part of GDP, surely. I was just temporarily seeing the world as I think it should be, rather than as it is!

All public spending is part of GDP with the exception of transfer payments like pensions and social security (IIRC because that would be then double counted with spending on consumer goods).

There's a long wiki page about GDP and different methodologies but it boils down to this which is the one which gets reported:

GDP (Y) is the sum of consumption (C), investment (I), government spending (G) and net exports (X – M).

Y = C + I + G + (X − M)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_dome ... e_approach" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So yes, schools and universities are included as part of government spending.

[PorFavor]

Feminist T-shirts worn by politicians allegedly made in sweatshop conditions
Mail on Sunday says Fawcett Society T-shirts worn by Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Harriet Harman are made by female workers paid 62p an hour (Guardian)

This sort of thing really infuriates me. Surely someone could have seen this coming and have done the necessary fact-finding in advance so that an answer\rebuttal could be instantaneous - or the situation avoided should the allegations be true. Bloody obvious that this sort of thing would have come up.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... conditions

[TechnicalEphemera]

Live Statement from NTSB re Virgin Spaceship Crash:

Vehicle Group are documenting the spread of spaceship wreckage, the Systems and Data Groups are collecting data from 6 cameras on the ship, 6 more data collectors, ground based cameras and data recorders so are gaining possession of more information than would normally be available because this test-flight was being so closely and comprehensively monitored. The Engine Group has looked at the engine flight data and the fuel tanks usage together with their data but have not yet looked at the engine itself. The lead crash investigators are taking interviews. Particular thanks to the County Sheriff and his team for their swift actions as first-responders, for rescuing the surviving member of the flight-team, and for effectively locating and securing the extensive crash site.

(I think I got it all...)

I can't get through the fog of PR and spin on the Virgin Galactic thing (stupid name for a sub orbital flight) to work out how much trouble they are in.

The big question is does their engine have what it takes to get them to the required altitude with a full payload. If it doesn't they are absolutely stuffed. I see rumours it is well short on the required performance (but they are simply rumours, although from smart educated people). They certainly had some churn in the management of that part of the program.

If it does then the question as to why they had the issue becomes important. It is assumed by the media that the rocket blew up, but that isn't necessarily the case, for example they could have suffered structural failure.

They are really back in X-15 territory in terms of technology challenges, which was largely solved but discarded as a dead end for getting to the moon. They have to carry a bigger payload, at higher safety levels but they have the advantage of computers plus the lessons of the X-15. Their big technical advantage is the feathering technology for re-entry. The X-15 had to come in at speed, and one pilot was killed when vertigo and disorientation led to him re-entering backwards.

Of course rocket technology as always is iffy (which is odd because it has had a lot of development starting with the German Komet in WW2. That wasn't prone to blowing up on the way up, but any sort of hard landing set it off).

[AngryAsWell]

Feminist T-shirts worn by politicians allegedly made in sweatshop conditions
Mail on Sunday says Fawcett Society T-shirts worn by Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Harriet Harman are made by female workers paid 62p an hour (Guardian)

This sort of thing really infuriates me. Surely someone could have seen this coming and have done the necessary fact-finding in advance so that an answer\rebuttal could be instantaneous - or the situation avoided should the allegations be true. Bloody obvious that this sort of thing would have come up.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... conditions

I posted this last night and to be honest I'm not sure what more could have been done or if the Mail have verified their story or what a minimum wage equates to in Mauritius

This is what a feminist looks like t-shirt’: Fawcett Society Response

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... -response/

[AngryAsWell]

Feminist T-shirts worn by politicians allegedly made in sweatshop conditions
Mail on Sunday says Fawcett Society T-shirts worn by Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg and Harriet Harman are made by female workers paid 62p an hour (Guardian)

This sort of thing really infuriates me. Surely someone could have seen this coming and have done the necessary fact-finding in advance so that an answer\rebuttal could be instantaneous - or the situation avoided should the allegations be true. Bloody obvious that this sort of thing would have come up.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... conditions

I posted this last night and to be honest I'm not sure what more could have been done or if the Mail have verified their story or what a minimum wage equates to in Mauritius

This is what a feminist looks like t-shirt’: Fawcett Society Response

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... -response/

Edit to give direct link

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1 ... -response/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

This sort of thing really infuriates me. Surely someone could have seen this coming and have done the necessary fact-finding in advance so that an answer\rebuttal could be instantaneous - or the situation avoided should the allegations be true. Bloody obvious that this sort of thing would have come up.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... conditions

I posted this last night and to be honest I'm not sure what more could have been done or if the Mail have verified their story or what a minimum wage equates to in Mauritius

This is what a feminist looks like t-shirt’: Fawcett Society Response

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... -response/

Edit to give direct link

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1 ... -response/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. Whilst I take on board, fully, your observation about comparative minimum wages, I can't say that I'm totally happy with the Fawcett Society's response which is rather half-baked. I think putting the sale of the T-shirts on hold until the full situation was known would have been the best course of action.

[AngryAsWell]

I posted this last night and to be honest I'm not sure what more could have been done or if the Mail have verified their story or what a minimum wage equates to in Mauritius

This is what a feminist looks like t-shirt’: Fawcett Society Response

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... -response/

Edit to give direct link

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1 ... -response/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. Whilst I take on board, fully, your observation about comparative minimum wages, I can't say that I'm totally happy with the Fawcett Society's response which is rather half-baked. I think putting the sale of the T-shirts on hold until the full situation was known would have been the best course of action.

Even though they had that reassurance via email? Should they have called the supplier a liar? Or could it possibly be the Mail not quite telling the whole (or part there of) truth?

I hope this allays any fears on social and ethical compliance from Mauritius. This unit is one we can be proud of in our supply chain. Hope this reassures you.’
“Given these assurances, and the fact that the entire range of t-shirts and sweaters had already been produced, we decided to continue with the collaboration.
“We have been very disappointed to hear the allegations that conditions in the Mauritius factory may not adhere to the ethical standards that we, as the Fawcett Society, would require of any product that bears our name. At this stage, we require evidence to back up the claims being made by a journalist at the Mail on Sunday. However, as a charity that campaigns on issues of women’s economic equality, we take these allegations extremely seriously and will do our utmost to investigate them.

[PorFavor]

Edit to give direct link

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2014/1 ... -response/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. Whilst I take on board, fully, your observation about comparative minimum wages, I can't say that I'm totally happy with the Fawcett Society's response which is rather half-baked. I think putting the sale of the T-shirts on hold until the full situation was known would have been the best course of action.

Even though they had that reassurance via email? Should they have called the supplier a liar? Or could it possibly be the Mail not quite telling the whole (or part there of) truth?

I hope this allays any fears on social and ethical compliance from Mauritius. This unit is one we can be proud of in our supply chain. Hope this reassures you.’
“Given these assurances, and the fact that the entire range of t-shirts and sweaters had already been produced, we decided to continue with the collaboration.
“We have been very disappointed to hear the allegations that conditions in the Mauritius factory may not adhere to the ethical standards that we, as the Fawcett Society, would require of any product that bears our name. At this stage, we require evidence to back up the claims being made by a journalist at the Mail on Sunday. However, as a charity that campaigns on issues of women’s economic equality, we take these allegations extremely seriously and will do our utmost to investigate them.

Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

[AngryAsWell]

Amina Lone ‏@Amina_Lone · 4m4 minutes ago
“@SteveReedMP:London campaign team arrives in Rochester to support @naushabahkhan ” Fantastic Enjoy.With you in spirit

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Really looks like they're not trying at all there.....

[AngryAsWell]

Thanks for the link. Whilst I take on board, fully, your observation about comparative minimum wages, I can't say that I'm totally happy with the Fawcett Society's response which is rather half-baked. I think putting the sale of the T-shirts on hold until the full situation was known would have been the best course of action.

Even though they had that reassurance via email? Should they have called the supplier a liar? Or could it possibly be the Mail not quite telling the whole (or part there of) truth?

I hope this allays any fears on social and ethical compliance from Mauritius. This unit is one we can be proud of in our supply chain. Hope this reassures you.’
“Given these assurances, and the fact that the entire range of t-shirts and sweaters had already been produced, we decided to continue with the collaboration.
“We have been very disappointed to hear the allegations that conditions in the Mauritius factory may not adhere to the ethical standards that we, as the Fawcett Society, would require of any product that bears our name. At this stage, we require evidence to back up the claims being made by a journalist at the Mail on Sunday. However, as a charity that campaigns on issues of women’s economic equality, we take these allegations extremely seriously and will do our utmost to investigate them.

Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

I don't, I read it as we took all precautions and sincerely hope we were not duped. We are still looking in to it.

“Whilst we wish to apologise to all those concerned who may have experienced adverse conditions, we remain confident that we took every practicable and reasonable step to ensure that the range would be ethically produced and await a fuller understanding of the circumstances under which the garments were produced.”

[PorFavor]

@AngryAsWell
Ha! Too many quotes within quotes for me to disentangle the bits I want, so I hope this makes sense:

I wrote - Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

You wrote -I don't, I read it as we took all precautions and sincerely hope we were not duped. We are still looking in to it.

“Whilst we wish to apologise to all those concerned who may have experienced adverse conditions, we remain confident that we took every practicable and reasonable step to ensure that the range would be ethically produced and await a fuller understanding of the circumstances under which the garments were produced.”

Wot you wrote in response to wot I wrote means the same, to me, as wot I wrote.

Your turn . . . .

(I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree!)

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Live Statement from NTSB re Virgin Spaceship Crash:

Vehicle Group are documenting the spread of spaceship wreckage, the Systems and Data Groups are collecting data from 6 cameras on the ship, 6 more data collectors, ground based cameras and data recorders so are gaining possession of more information than would normally be available because this test-flight was being so closely and comprehensively monitored. The Engine Group has looked at the engine flight data and the fuel tanks usage together with their data but have not yet looked at the engine itself. The lead crash investigators are taking interviews. Particular thanks to the County Sheriff and his team for their swift actions as first-responders, for rescuing the surviving member of the flight-team, and for effectively locating and securing the extensive crash site.

(I think I got it all...)

I can't get through the fog of PR and spin on the Virgin Galactic thing (stupid name for a sub orbital flight) to work out how much trouble they are in.

The big question is does their engine have what it takes to get them to the required altitude with a full payload. If it doesn't they are absolutely stuffed. I see rumours it is well short on the required performance (but they are simply rumours, although from smart educated people). They certainly had some churn in the management of that part of the program.

If it does then the question as to why they had the issue becomes important. It is assumed by the media that the rocket blew up, but that isn't necessarily the case, for example they could have suffered structural failure.

They are really back in X-15 territory in terms of technology challenges, which was largely solved but discarded as a dead end for getting to the moon. They have to carry a bigger payload, at higher safety levels but they have the advantage of computers plus the lessons of the X-15. Their big technical advantage is the feathering technology for re-entry. The X-15 had to come in at speed, and one pilot was killed when vertigo and disorientation led to him re-entering backwards.

Of course rocket technology as always is iffy (which is odd because it has had a lot of development starting with the German Komet in WW2. That wasn't prone to blowing up on the way up, but any sort of hard landing set it off).

Ah, the Komet, anybody who flew that thing was either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid. The problem with the Komet was the two types of fuel used, which were incredibly reactive; if there was any left in the tanks on landing (and there were usually small amounts) a very hard landing would mix them and ...... kaboom - bearing in mind it landed on a skid (the wheels were jettisoned on takeoff), hard landings were a given and more pilots were killed in landing accidents than in combat. After the war several Komets were captured and tested by allied pilots, but with strict orders that the flights were to be unpowered gliding flights; that wasn't good enough for the astonishing Eric Brown who, with the help of a cooperative crew of Luftwaffe POWs, managed one powered flight after which he said it was "like being in charge of a runaway train".

Rockets need two components to their fuel, a propellant and an oxidiser (no oxygen in space, so you need to carry it with you); the rockets were are most familiar with are solid fuel rockets (you probably all heard a lot of those last night) and liquid fuel rockets - the space shuttle used both types, liquid fuel rockets on the shuttle itself with solid rocket boosters for the initial part of the flight.

But SpaceShipTwo, like it's predecessor the X-Prize winning SpaceshipOne, has hybrid engines which use solid fuel and a liquid oxidiser; it is a less mature technology than the other two types, both of which we have been using for decades, and Scaled Composites (who make the ships) have been struggling a little with the scaled up engine used on SS2, as they did with the engine on SS1 (there was a very nasty accident involving the explosion during a ground test). Hopefully they will be able to learn from this tragic accident and will be able to resume test flying next year with SS3 (which is already under construction).

[TheGrimSqueaker]

@AngryAsWell
Ha! Too many quotes within quotes for me to disentangle the bits I want, so I hope this makes sense:

I wrote - Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

You wrote -I don't, I read it as we took all precautions and sincerely hope we were not duped. We are still looking in to it.

“Whilst we wish to apologise to all those concerned who may have experienced adverse conditions, we remain confident that we took every practicable and reasonable step to ensure that the range would be ethically produced and await a fuller understanding of the circumstances under which the garments were produced.”

Wot you wrote in response to wot I wrote means the same, to me, as wot I wrote.

Your turn . . . .

(I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree!)

My two pennorth .......

If the Daily Mail said the sky was blue I'd have to look out the window to check for myself. Everybody seems to have accepted this story unquestioningly, which is galling, especially as it is an obvious attempt to deflect attention from the cockups of the Fishpointer General and his kitten heeled sidekick. It may well be true, but why does everybody allow themselves to be led by the nose so easily .... another victory for Lynton.

[PorFavor]

And still no ohsocynical . . . .

I do hope that there's nothing amiss and that she's just got better things to do for the time being and is having a rest for a while.

[LadyCentauria]

Live Statement from NTSB re Virgin Spaceship Crash:

Vehicle Group are documenting the spread of spaceship wreckage, the Systems and Data Groups are collecting data from 6 cameras on the ship, 6 more data collectors, ground based cameras and data recorders so are gaining possession of more information than would normally be available because this test-flight was being so closely and comprehensively monitored. The Engine Group has looked at the engine flight data and the fuel tanks usage together with their data but have not yet looked at the engine itself. The lead crash investigators are taking interviews. Particular thanks to the County Sheriff and his team for their swift actions as first-responders, for rescuing the surviving member of the flight-team, and for effectively locating and securing the extensive crash site.

(I think I got it all...)

I can't get through the fog of PR and spin on the Virgin Galactic thing (stupid name for a sub orbital flight) to work out how much trouble they are in.

The big question is does their engine have what it takes to get them to the required altitude with a full payload. If it doesn't they are absolutely stuffed. I see rumours it is well short on the required performance (but they are simply rumours, although from smart educated people). They certainly had some churn in the management of that part of the program.

If it does then the question as to why they had the issue becomes important. It is assumed by the media that the rocket blew up, but that isn't necessarily the case, for example they could have suffered structural failure.

They are really back in X-15 territory in terms of technology challenges, which was largely solved but discarded as a dead end for getting to the moon. They have to carry a bigger payload, at higher safety levels but they have the advantage of computers plus the lessons of the X-15. Their big technical advantage is the feathering technology for re-entry. The X-15 had to come in at speed, and one pilot was killed when vertigo and disorientation led to him re-entering backwards.

Of course rocket technology as always is iffy (which is odd because it has had a lot of development starting with the German Komet in WW2. That wasn't prone to blowing up on the way up, but any sort of hard landing set it off).

With you on that. Especially on the assumption it 'blew up.' The wreckage I've seen, so far, looks more to have been ripped apart and, possibly, looks too clean and shiny to have been through an explosion – but that's to my untrained eye and mind. Implosion, though. Isn't that what happens when there's a loss of pressure? And whatever did happen was very soon after separation from the launch-vehicle. Ach. Speculation. Just feel for the crew's families and for the survivor him-or-her-self...

[Willow904]

The state is still GDP. Or am I missing your point, Willow?

No, I'm just being thick. I forgot Blair "grew" the sector. Higher education is big business these days, not a public service. I still think of uni as being an extension of schools and colleges and those aren't part of GDP, surely. I was just temporarily seeing the world as I think it should be, rather than as it is!

All public spending is part of GDP with the exception of transfer payments like pensions and social security (IIRC because that would be then double counted with spending on consumer goods).

There's a long wiki page about GDP and different methodologies but it boils down to this which is the one which gets reported:

GDP (Y) is the sum of consumption (C), investment (I), government spending (G) and net exports (X – M).

Y = C + I + G + (X − M)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_dome ... e_approach" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So yes, schools and universities are included as part of government spending.

Thanks for that. Now l understand that universities are included in GDP regardless of how they are funded the real question is why was the original estimate for the contribution from this sector so wrong and has since been adjusted so much according to the c4 article that prompted my question.

[AngryAsWell]

@AngryAsWell
Ha! Too many quotes within quotes for me to disentangle the bits I want, so I hope this makes sense:

I wrote - Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

You wrote -I don't, I read it as we took all precautions and sincerely hope we were not duped. We are still looking in to it.

“Whilst we wish to apologise to all those concerned who may have experienced adverse conditions, we remain confident that we took every practicable and reasonable step to ensure that the range would be ethically produced and await a fuller understanding of the circumstances under which the garments were produced.”

Wot you wrote in response to wot I wrote means the same, to me, as wot I wrote.

Your turn . . . .

(I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree!)

Now this says it better than me

Peter Smith
‏@Redpeter99 Shouldn't the headline really be "Equality Charity Duped by Disgraceful Conduct of Top Company"?
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

@AngryAsWell
Ha! Too many quotes within quotes for me to disentangle the bits I want, so I hope this makes sense:

I wrote - Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

You wrote -I don't, I read it as we took all precautions and sincerely hope we were not duped. We are still looking in to it.

“Whilst we wish to apologise to all those concerned who may have experienced adverse conditions, we remain confident that we took every practicable and reasonable step to ensure that the range would be ethically produced and await a fuller understanding of the circumstances under which the garments were produced.”

Wot you wrote in response to wot I wrote means the same, to me, as wot I wrote.


Your turn . . . .

(I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree!)

My two pennorth .......

If the Daily Mail said the sky was blue I'd have to look out the window to check for myself. Everybody seems to have accepted this story unquestioningly, which is galling, especially as it is an obvious attempt to deflect attention from the cockups of the Fishpointer General and his kitten heeled sidekick. It may well be true, but why does everybody allow themselves to be led by the nose so easily .... another victory for Lynton.

Hello. No - I haven't accepted anything. I had hoped that I'd made that clear earlier on. Oh, don't start me off again!

[AngryAsWell]

@AngryAsWell
Ha! Too many quotes within quotes for me to disentangle the bits I want, so I hope this makes sense:

I wrote - Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

You wrote -I don't, I read it as we took all precautions and sincerely hope we were not duped. We are still looking in to it.

“Whilst we wish to apologise to all those concerned who may have experienced adverse conditions, we remain confident that we took every practicable and reasonable step to ensure that the range would be ethically produced and await a fuller understanding of the circumstances under which the garments were produced.”

Wot you wrote in response to wot I wrote means the same, to me, as wot I wrote.

Your turn . . . .

(I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree!)

My two pennorth .......

If the Daily Mail said the sky was blue I'd have to look out the window to check for myself. Everybody seems to have accepted this story unquestioningly, which is galling, especially as it is an obvious attempt to deflect attention from the cockups of the Fishpointer General and his kitten heeled sidekick. It may well be true, but why does everybody allow themselves to be led by the nose so easily .... another victory for Lynton.

...and talking auzzy, strange that no one has linked the fact that the fish pointer refused to join this campaign, only for it to (allegedly) blow up in Ed's face - and tag Clegg in as well - when other similar ones (football) he has jumped at.
Am I the only one to see Daily Fail "stitch up" here?

[AngryAsWell]

And still no ohsocynical . . . .

I do hope that there's nothing amiss and that she's just got better things to do for the time being and is having a rest for a while.

A bit worrying, I've DM'ed her on twitter and not had a reply. Do hope everything is well and she is just having a break for a while.

[PorFavor]

@AngryAsWell
Ha! Too many quotes within quotes for me to disentangle the bits I want, so I hope this makes sense:

I wrote - Yes - but the final sentence in the Fawcett Society's response is, to me. saying, "But we're not totally sure. We could be wrong."

You wrote -I don't, I read it as we took all precautions and sincerely hope we were not duped. We are still looking in to it.

“Whilst we wish to apologise to all those concerned who may have experienced adverse conditions, we remain confident that we took every practicable and reasonable step to ensure that the range would be ethically produced and await a fuller understanding of the circumstances under which the garments were produced.”

Wot you wrote in response to wot I wrote means the same, to me, as wot I wrote.

Your turn . . . .

(I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree!)

My two pennorth .......

If the Daily Mail said the sky was blue I'd have to look out the window to check for myself. Everybody seems to have accepted this story unquestioningly, which is galling, especially as it is an obvious attempt to deflect attention from the cockups of the Fishpointer General and his kitten heeled sidekick. It may well be true, but why does everybody allow themselves to be led by the nose so easily .... another victory for Lynton.

...and talking auzzy, strange that no one has linked the fact that the fish pointer refused to join this campaign, only for it to (allegedly) blow up in Ed's face - and tag Clegg in as well - when other similar ones (football) he has jumped at.
Am I the only one to see Daily Fail "stitch up" here?

Well, exactly. There's a hole in my bucket . . . .

[AngryAsWell]

Really wish they would fight in Rochester....

Labour fights 4 YOU retweeted

Florence Eshalomi ‏@FloNosegbe · 3h3 hours ago
Just arrived on Labour battle bus in Rochester&Strood for the by-election campaign @naushabahkhan #togetherwekhan

[Lonewolfie]

Afternoon all...

Many thanks for the explanations re the EU contributions...from my simplistic viewpoint it seems that a) the system has become extremely complex due to EU/UK reaction to the Crash, and b) in 2010, the British Government and the MSM stopped being able in count big numbers.

Don't know whether we've had the latest update re Fiona Woolf/CSA......this piece suggesting she was ready to stand down at the beginning of the week...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eting.html

...and this piece, despite the little dig at Mr Ed for being 'party political', is very informative about events on Friday - the update following Woolfs' resignation is telling...

https://ianpace.wordpress.com/tag/barbara-hearn/

[Lonewolfie]

My two pennorth .......

If the Daily Mail said the sky was blue I'd have to look out the window to check for myself. Everybody seems to have accepted this story unquestioningly, which is galling, especially as it is an obvious attempt to deflect attention from the cockups of the Fishpointer General and his kitten heeled sidekick. It may well be true, but why does everybody allow themselves to be led by the nose so easily .... another victory for Lynton.

...and talking auzzy, strange that no one has linked the fact that the fish pointer refused to join this campaign, only for it to (allegedly) blow up in Ed's face - and tag Clegg in as well - when other similar ones (football) he has jumped at.
Am I the only one to see Daily Fail "stitch up" here?

Well, exactly. There's a hole in my bucket . . . .

I agree wholeheartedley with this having the stench of a stitch-up, which makes it all the more galling to have to keep linking the Heil for their coverage of the CSA but they do seem to be keeping up with it more than others.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Really wish they would fight in Rochester....

Labour fights 4 YOU retweeted

Florence Eshalomi ‏@FloNosegbe · 3h3 hours ago
Just arrived on Labour battle bus in Rochester&Strood for the by-election campaign @naushabahkhan #togetherwekhan

There is no point fighting in Rochester. The Tory party is spending a fortune on it, UKIP will be doing the same. Labour don't have the money to throw at a safe Tory seat.

The perfect Labour result is a thumping UKIP victory on the back of a protest vote, leading to a split right wing vote in 2015 and the Labour candidate sneaking over the line.

As long as utter humiliation is avoided third is an acceptable result.

[Spacedone]

Has anyone checked the labels of the clothing that our politicians wear on a day to day basis to make sure that they weren't created in some South Asian sweatshop? I'd hate to think that whatever unrelated message they were putting across whilst wearing clothes would be instantly invalidated and dismissed simply because they were wearing something from Primark.

To be honest I'm so disinterested in this manufactured outrage story about that I can't even be bother to finish this sen—

[seeingclearly]

how do universities contribute to GDP if they are funded by the state

The state is still GDP. Or am I missing your point, Willow?

No, I'm just being thick. I forgot Blair "grew" the sector. Higher education is big business these days, not a public service. I still think of uni as being an extension of schools and colleges and those aren't part of GDP, surely. I was just temporarily seeing the world as I think it should be, rather than as it is!

FE colleges are now part of larger university holdings in one region I know of and listed as part of a private company. I don't know how widespread this is.

[rearofthestore]

Live Statement from NTSB re Virgin Spaceship Crash:

Vehicle Group are documenting the spread of spaceship wreckage, the Systems and Data Groups are collecting data from 6 cameras on the ship, 6 more data collectors, ground based cameras and data recorders so are gaining possession of more information than would normally be available because this test-flight was being so closely and comprehensively monitored. The Engine Group has looked at the engine flight data and the fuel tanks usage together with their data but have not yet looked at the engine itself. The lead crash investigators are taking interviews. Particular thanks to the County Sheriff and his team for their swift actions as first-responders, for rescuing the surviving member of the flight-team, and for effectively locating and securing the extensive crash site.

(I think I got it all...)

I can't get through the fog of PR and spin on the Virgin Galactic thing (stupid name for a sub orbital flight) to work out how much trouble they are in.

The big question is does their engine have what it takes to get them to the required altitude with a full payload. If it doesn't they are absolutely stuffed. I see rumours it is well short on the required performance (but they are simply rumours, although from smart educated people). They certainly had some churn in the management of that part of the program.

If it does then the question as to why they had the issue becomes important. It is assumed by the media that the rocket blew up, but that isn't necessarily the case, for example they could have suffered structural failure.

They are really back in X-15 territory in terms of technology challenges, which was largely solved but discarded as a dead end for getting to the moon. They have to carry a bigger payload, at higher safety levels but they have the advantage of computers plus the lessons of the X-15. Their big technical advantage is the feathering technology for re-entry. The X-15 had to come in at speed, and one pilot was killed when vertigo and disorientation led to him re-entering backwards.

Of course rocket technology as always is iffy (which is odd because it has had a lot of development starting with the German Komet in WW2. That wasn't prone to blowing up on the way up, but any sort of hard landing set it off).

With you on that. Especially on the assumption it 'blew up.' The wreckage I've seen, so far, looks more to have been ripped apart and, possibly, looks too clean and shiny to have been through an explosion – but that's to my untrained eye and mind. Implosion, though. Isn't that what happens when there's a loss of pressure? And whatever did happen was very soon after separation from the launch-vehicle. Ach. Speculation. Just feel for the crew's families and for the survivor him-or-her-self...

When it comes to technical matters I know nothing but earlier this year I did read the 2nd biography of Richard Branson by Tom Bower 'Branson Behind the Mask'.
Now I know Bower doesn't like Branson (well I don't care for him much myself) but if what he says in the opening chapters on Virgin Galactica is even partly true the project is not safe or viable and was a serious disaster waiting to happen (he wrote it in January 2014). For what it's worth I think this is a project purely designed as another Branson PR exercise which tragically is unravelling with serious consequences. Branson however, as always, appears teflon coated.

[PorFavor]

Has anyone checked the labels of the clothing that our politicians wear on a day to day basis to make sure that they weren't created in some South Asian sweatshop? I'd hate to think that whatever unrelated message they were putting across whilst wearing clothes would be instantly invalidated and dismissed simply because they were wearing something from Primark.

To be honest I'm so disinterested in this manufactured outrage story about that I can't even be bother to finish this sen—

Ha! I think we have the right to check the labels on Iain Smith's underpants, actually. After all, we paid for them. And no - I'm not volunteering.

[AngryAsWell]

Really wish they would fight in Rochester....

Labour fights 4 YOU retweeted

Florence Eshalomi ‏@FloNosegbe · 3h3 hours ago
Just arrived on Labour battle bus in Rochester&Strood for the by-election campaign @naushabahkhan #togetherwekhan

There is no point fighting in Rochester. The Tory party is spending a fortune on it, UKIP will be doing the same. Labour don't have the money to throw at a safe Tory seat.

The perfect Labour result is a thumping UKIP victory on the back of a protest vote, leading to a split right wing vote in 2015 and the Labour candidate sneaking over the line.

As long as utter humiliation is avoided third is an acceptable result.

Not very clear but I was being sarcastic
All I read in the press is Labour not even trying in Rochester - all I see on my twitter feed is how hard they are fighting, maybe not vast money, but the candidate and party on the ground are going for it.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Here is some background on Scaled Composites decision to change their rocket system.

(There are lots of other sites discussing this and commenting on the 2007 accident, but they all look a little amateur scientist, pet projects and conspiracy).

http://m.aviationweek.com/space/new-fue ... aceshiptwo

Now read between the lines, how many test flights which actually fired the motor, plus even allowing for PR the statements about integrating a new fuel look very happy day focused in their outlook.

Even without Fridays accident these guys are years away from service.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Sorry. Grumpy.

[tinyclanger2]

Ha! I think we have the right to check the labels on Iain Smith's underpants...

Not sure is sufficient. Any chance of a narcolepsy emoticon?

[AngryAsWell]

Village school employs 6 members of staff but it doesn’t have a pupil

The Mail is reporting that a village school has six members of staff on its payroll despite having no pupils after it was placed in special measures because, according to the chair of governors, of a single incident of a child using the word “gay” as a throwaway comment…

http://schoolsimprovement.net/village-s ... ve-a-pupil" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AngryAsWell]

EDM against the dog meat trade, check to see if your MP has signed it, if not, email/ tweet them to sign - if you want to that is
http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2014-15/159" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

The fulsome praise which, by now, I was hoping for and, yeah, even deserving, has not materialised.

I've gone almost a whole day without editing anything. Or am I just unaware of any howlers I've made and you are all too kind (or relieved) to point them out?

[LadyCentauria]

Here is some background on Scaled Composites decision to change their rocket system.

(There are lots of other sites discussing this and commenting on the 2007 accident, but they all look a little amateur scientist, pet projects and conspiracy).

http://m.aviationweek.com/space/new-fue ... aceshiptwo

Now read between the lines, how many test flights which actually fired the motor, plus even allowing for PR the statements about integrating a new fuel look very happy day focused in their outlook.

Even without Fridays accident these guys are years away from service.

Their latest article says this was the first test-flight using these new plastic-based fuel grains. Earlier tests were all ground-based burns. I am sure that they will persevere with the project but cannot see how they could have launched for passengers in Spring 2015, regardless – or not on the new fuel. But it is a competitive market and there is a race on and at least some of the passenger-seats were already installed. So perhaps they thought that, if Friday had gone well, they'd have been able to get enough tests in – and the relevant licences issued in time. And there is not just income but kudos and names in history books at stake for being The First.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Here is some background on Scaled Composites decision to change their rocket system.

(There are lots of other sites discussing this and commenting on the 2007 accident, but they all look a little amateur scientist, pet projects and conspiracy).

http://m.aviationweek.com/space/new-fue ... aceshiptwo

Now read between the lines, how many test flights which actually fired the motor, plus even allowing for PR the statements about integrating a new fuel look very happy day focused in their outlook.

Even without Fridays accident these guys are years away from service.

Their latest article says this was the first test-flight using these new plastic-based fuel grains. Earlier tests were all ground-based burns. I am sure that they will persevere with the project but cannot see how they could have launched for passengers in Spring 2015, regardless – or not on the new fuel. But it is a competitive market and there is a race on and at least some of the passenger-seats were already installed. So perhaps they thought that, if Friday had gone well, they'd have been able to get enough tests in – and the relevant licences issued in time. And there is not just income but kudos and names in history books at stake for being The First.

I think they will be first, if they don't go bankrupt.

Four flights ever have fired the rocket, none to full burn and the first to try the new fuel had an issue.

Now I would think they will want hundreds of test flights on full burn before they get certified to carry passengers. This feels like three to five years away.

Nobody else is within a decade.

Now when looking at hype and expectations around high volume space travel I keep coming back to this 1980 article on the Space Shuttle. Amusingly on the economics his worst case scenario was too optimistic.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... ltext.html

[rebeccariots2]

Alastair Campbell retweeted
Peter Smith @Redpeter99 · 7h 7 hours ago
Whoever finds a link between Ed Miliband and the cause of The Black Death will get a lifetime's subscription to The Mail. #Marr

[StephenDolan]

George Osborne shown painting of himself naked and waving a carrot

http://gu.com/p/43x9y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rebeccariots2]

George Osborne shown painting of himself naked and waving a carrot

http://gu.com/p/43x9y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can't quite work out which element of that statement is the most gut churning.

[AngryAsWell]

The fulsome praise which, by now, I was hoping for and, yeah, even deserving, has not materialised.

I've gone almost a whole day without editing anything. Or am I just unaware of any howlers I've made and you are all too kind (or relieved) to point them out?

Oh well done!!

[StephenDolan]

Nats in meltdown. Shame.
Alex Salmond leaves door open for coalition with Labour

http://gu.com/p/43x7m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AnatolyKasparov]

Why "in meltdown" - would they prefer the Tories??

I expect a few of them probably would, tbh

[rebeccariots2]

Frances Ryan ‏@frances__ryan 1h1 hour ago
'Wearing a headscarf that indicates she is some kind of immigrant'. Louise Mensch finds new bile. pic.twitter.com/IbRGj9t3k9 (via @DawnHFoster)

Dawn Foster ‏@DawnHFoster 1h1 hour ago
@frances__ryan pic.twitter.com/qU02KCuE7J

Frances Ryan
‏@frances__ryan
@DawnHFoster Fucking hell. Put a warning up first.

To understand what is going on here you need to click through to the photos.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Here is some background on Scaled Composites decision to change their rocket system.

(There are lots of other sites discussing this and commenting on the 2007 accident, but they all look a little amateur scientist, pet projects and conspiracy).

http://m.aviationweek.com/space/new-fue ... aceshiptwo

Now read between the lines, how many test flights which actually fired the motor, plus even allowing for PR the statements about integrating a new fuel look very happy day focused in their outlook.

Even without Fridays accident these guys are years away from service.

Their latest article says this was the first test-flight using these new plastic-based fuel grains. Earlier tests were all ground-based burns. I am sure that they will persevere with the project but cannot see how they could have launched for passengers in Spring 2015, regardless – or not on the new fuel. But it is a competitive market and there is a race on and at least some of the passenger-seats were already installed. So perhaps they thought that, if Friday had gone well, they'd have been able to get enough tests in – and the relevant licences issued in time. And there is not just income but kudos and names in history books at stake for being The First.

I think they will be first, if they don't go bankrupt.

Four flights ever have fired the rocket, none to full burn and the first to try the new fuel had an issue.

Now I would think they will want hundreds of test flights on full burn before they get certified to carry passengers. This feels like three to five years away.

Nobody else is within a decade.

Now when looking at hype and expectations around high volume space travel I keep coming back to this 1980 article on the Space Shuttle. Amusingly on the economics his worst case scenario was too optimistic.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... ltext.html

SpaceX will be first now, I think. Their Falcon rockets, much more conventional tech liquid fuel rockets, have proven reliable so far (13 out of 13 successful launches so far for the Falcon 9) and the Dragon capsule has successfully delivered cargo four times to the ISS (albeit with a few minor mission glitches); they plan to commence testing of the astronaut carrying Dragon v2 next year and hope to see it enter service in 2017.

[RogerOThornhill]

Frances Ryan ‏@frances__ryan 1h1 hour ago
'Wearing a headscarf that indicates she is some kind of immigrant'. Louise Mensch finds new bile. pic.twitter.com/IbRGj9t3k9 (via @DawnHFoster)

Dawn Foster ‏@DawnHFoster 1h1 hour ago
@frances__ryan pic.twitter.com/qU02KCuE7J

Frances Ryan
‏@frances__ryan
@DawnHFoster Fucking hell. Put a warning up first.

To understand what is going on here you need to click through to the photos.

I'm old enough to remember the days when it was quite normal to see women going out with a headscarf on...

[AngryAsWell]

The Face of Farage as not normally seen
(Health Warning)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;