Saturday 1st & Sunday 2nd November 2014

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 8:00 am

Morning.

This is Nigel Farage's mum. Yes, really.

Can see where he gets his oddball 'end of the pier' persona from.

More pics of her déshabillé over at the Mail if anyone cares to look.
To be fair she was doing it for charity.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 8:07 am

That's not his Mum. She doesn't have a pint in her hand or anything.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 8:32 am

Britain First Rochester election mail leaflet dubbed illegal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-29858335
Royal Mail has said it will not deliver a leaflet for the right wing party Britain First in the Rochester and Strood by-election because it believes it to be illegal.

The company said it could refuse to carry election mail if it considered the contents threatening or abusive.

The leaflet features a woman wearing a veil with the word "warning" and refers to a campaign against a planned mosque...

So it seems to have been left to Royal Mail to enforce the law? Don't the Electoral Commission and / or police have any responsibility here?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 8:54 am

Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:04 am

Picked these links up from BTL under the Guardian's editorial on Woolf's resignation.

'Arrest of Alastair Laing and Colin Peters, members of HM Diplomatic Service, in Naples'
Date:
1967 Jan 01-1968 Dec 31

This record is closed Closed For 87 years
Opening date: 01 January 2056
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... r/C6100084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paedophile ring leader, Colin Peters, linked to Barnes scandal
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 18078.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe LoneWolfie or someone else knows whether it is unusual for public records to be sealed for so long [in this case not to be opened until 2056].

The cases involve a Foreign Office barrister arrested in the late 1960s - that's the sealed record,
who later jailed in 1989 for 'being part of a sophisticated network of people who molested hundreds of children, some as young as 10.''

The Indie reported last year ''Peters' conviction followed a year-long investigation, named Operation Hedgerow, which recorded 650 offences against 150 boys. Reports at the time said the ring "was used by highly placed civil servants and well-known public figures", but police didn't have "the evidence or manpower to pursue them in court".

As Wolfie often says...drip drip.
The Indie also said Peters has been alleged by several sources to be connected to Elm Guest House.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:05 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

This is Nigel Farage's mum. Yes, really.

Can see where he gets his oddball 'end of the pier' persona from.

More pics of her déshabillé over at the Mail if anyone cares to look.
To be fair she was doing it for charity.

She has a fantastic piece of hardware.

Nice to see somebody associated with politics promoting UK manufacturing. Shame that the factory will probably close if we leave the EU.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:07 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, it's certainly that. But not sure it's the area I see as most immediately in need of some radical change ... or that will resonate with public. We could do with some of that radical thinking and action in other policy areas.

And trouble with reform / abolition of HoL as Lib Dems and coalition have found is that it has a tendency to suck a load of time and energy out for very little shift and return - so far. They are real limpets.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:08 am

yahyah wrote:Picked these links up from BTL under the Guardian's editorial on Woolf's resignation.

'Arrest of Alastair Laing and Colin Peters, members of HM Diplomatic Service, in Naples'
Date:
1967 Jan 01-1968 Dec 31

This record is closed Closed For 87 years
Opening date: 01 January 2056
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... r/C6100084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paedophile ring leader, Colin Peters, linked to Barnes scandal
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 18078.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe LoneWolfie or someone else knows whether it is unusual for public records to be sealed for so long [in this case not to be opened until 2056].

The cases involve a Foreign Office barrister arrested in the late 1960s - that's the sealed record,
who later jailed in 1989 for 'being part of a sophisticated network of people who molested hundreds of children, some as young as 10.''

The Indie reported last year ''Peters' conviction followed a year-long investigation, named Operation Hedgerow, which recorded 650 offences against 150 boys. Reports at the time said the ring "was used by highly placed civil servants and well-known public figures", but police didn't have "the evidence or manpower to pursue them in court".

As Wolfie often says...drip drip.

Usually very senior establishment figures with vague connections to royalty. Or more innocently the file contains information which if published would embarrass or upset some innocent third party. 87 years sounds suspiciously like they are waiting until all those involved are dead.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:10 am

yahyah, that can't be The Leader's mum; everybody knows Tories and Kippers (same thing really) reproduce through binary fission, like all bacteria.

Giselle, re. your Tom Watson request, can you ask him why he thinks it clever to be undermining the Labour Party in the run up to the General Election?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:17 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, it's certainly that. But not sure it's the area I see as most immediately in need of some radical change ... or that will resonate with public. We could do with some of that radical thinking and action in other policy areas.

And trouble with reform / abolition of HoL as Lib Dems and coalition have found is that it has a tendency to suck a load of time and energy out for very little shift and return - so far. They are real limpets.

On the other hand it doesn't cost much. Rightly or wrongly Labour will only have policy proposals that do not require significant new funding, except for the NHS.

Part of me could get quite upset about this acceptance of austerity. On the other hand it seems to be forcing some interesting, creative thinking in Labour that may lead to some surprisingly good outcomes. I agree that Lords reform isn't an urgent priority for me. BUT a Senate representing the regions has to be an excellent idea in the longer term.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:21 am

I found the brutality of this headline almost unbearable

The leader of Nigeria's Islamic extremist group denies agreeing to a ceasefire and says more than 200 kidnapped schoolgirls have all converted to Islam and been married off.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:24 am

Hee hee I'm loving the Lords reform thing more and more because the Lib Dems are getting all upset about it

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 09622.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

miliband-bottled-lords-reform

I love it when the Coalition blame Labour for their failure to get policy through the House

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:25 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, it's certainly that. But not sure it's the area I see as most immediately in need of some radical change ... or that will resonate with public. We could do with some of that radical thinking and action in other policy areas.

And trouble with reform / abolition of HoL as Lib Dems and coalition have found is that it has a tendency to suck a load of time and energy out for very little shift and return - so far. They are real limpets.
On the other hand it doesn't cost much. Rightly or wrongly Labour will only have policy proposals that do not require significant new funding, except for the NHS.

Part of me could get quite upset about this acceptance of austerity. On the other hand it seems to be forcing some interesting, creative thinking in Labour that may lead to some surprisingly good outcomes. I agree that Lords reform isn't an urgent priority for me. BUT a Senate representing the regions has to be an excellent idea in the longer term.

Morning all.

I'd go along with all of that. Given how austerity hasn't achieved anything that was said to be the goal, having it accepted as the only game in town is disappointing. Post election Balls was highlighting that there'd be no recovery without growth. Interest rates are still extremely low, so why should investment at the government level still not be an option? There's enough economic data to back up this approach (the TPA can do one as far as I'm concerned). Cutting back on aggressive tax avoidance is an area I'd like to see. Name Gary Barlow

and the schemes he was involved in. Flex a bit more muscle with the Crown dependencies.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:35 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, it's certainly that. But not sure it's the area I see as most immediately in need of some radical change ... or that will resonate with public. We could do with some of that radical thinking and action in other policy areas.

And trouble with reform / abolition of HoL as Lib Dems and coalition have found is that it has a tendency to suck a load of time and energy out for very little shift and return - so far. They are real limpets.

A lot of the legwork was done under the New Labour government and, to a certain extent, by the Coalition in 2011 so it need not take as much time & energy as previously. And as all talk is of PR elections it would be an easy sell to the unwashed masses who say they aren't properly represented.

And, true, it may not be the most urgent thing (although considering their culpability in NHS reform I'd personally say it was pretty urgent) but as part of a package? Let us not forget this wasn't the only announcement yesterday, there was also the buses policy which is a further step on the plan to 'devolve' power to the regions.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 9:35 am

I was very worried about the appointment of Simon Stevens to run the NHS, but doesn't seem to be scared of taking on the Government. Good for him.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ge ... ms-4543554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 10:07 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a really odd one for me - having watched the Commons ride roughshod over common sense and the true 'will of the people' through it's perverse structure (vote for your local representative...or national party...you decide!/a few thousand voters from a handful of seats deciding a national election/once in power, as long as the PM can control (bribe/blackmail) enough of their MPs they can do anything they want), I quite like the idea of a second chamber that is not elected but selected (regional panels to select from across the spectrum of society or a jury style system, where anyone can be called to serve for a period of time) - they wouldn't automatically follow party lines and could (in theory) stop the elected politicians from following different masters than those who elected them (see the past 35+ years).

...but then, I would also like to see regional two-tier legislative bodies (with party political independence in the upper chamber) that sends representatives to a national parliament, representatives living in linked accommodation (no second home subsidy) and a level of renumeration consistent with their responsibilities (no expenses). Think of all the jobs that would be created! We could start to see politics, social administration and public service receiving the level of respect it deserves.

However - well done Mr Ed/Labour for raising another serious point for debate and leading the agenda

(Again or as usual)

OK, OK, I know - but you all know where I live

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 10:24 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I was very worried about the appointment of Simon Stevens to run the NHS, but doesn't seem to be scared of taking on the Government. Good for him.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ge ... ms-4543554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indeed, maybe he's not a Blairite patsy for privatisation after all?

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 10:31 am

yahyah wrote:Picked these links up from BTL under the Guardian's editorial on Woolf's resignation.

'Arrest of Alastair Laing and Colin Peters, members of HM Diplomatic Service, in Naples'
Date:
1967 Jan 01-1968 Dec 31

This record is closed Closed For 87 years
Opening date: 01 January 2056
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... r/C6100084" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paedophile ring leader, Colin Peters, linked to Barnes scandal
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 18078.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe LoneWolfie or someone else knows whether it is unusual for public records to be sealed for so long [in this case not to be opened until 2056].

The cases involve a Foreign Office barrister arrested in the late 1960s - that's the sealed record,
who later jailed in 1989 for 'being part of a sophisticated network of people who molested hundreds of children, some as young as 10.''

The Indie reported last year ''Peters' conviction followed a year-long investigation, named Operation Hedgerow, which recorded 650 offences against 150 boys. Reports at the time said the ring "was used by highly placed civil servants and well-known public figures", but police didn't have "the evidence or manpower to pursue them in court".

As Wolfie often says...drip drip.
The Indie also said Peters has been alleged by several sources to be connected to Elm Guest House.

Very unusual...even Thatcher (where's the spit emoticon) only put 30 years on her illegal and inhuman destruction of the coal industry - these are some of the links I have relating to a specific 100 year 'D' notice - just before Tory Blurs' Iraq War (convenient - around the same time as all the rhetoric became bellicose and started accusing Sadam of supporting Al Qaeda (when in actual fact (AFIK) he viewed them as extremely dangerous and persecuted them in his own way) and concerning Operation Ore/Avalanche -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ore

http://www.tpuc.org/blair-covering-up-p ... e-scandal/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2003/01/29/ ... r-machine/

Of course, following it's publication, the reputation of Operation Ore was destroyed in the public consciousness (bottom of Wiki page).

...there seems to be at least one more 100 year 'D' notice, to do with the whole Elm Guest House/Leon Brittan thing...am trying to find links.

In any case, any CSA Inquiry will have to have full access to all documentation, secret or otherwise, before it can be viewed as 'thorough'.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:02 am

Also, a few links with rebuttal info for anyone undergoing 'Harman/PIE/Labour' trollery...at best, a non-party political issue (and to be clear - abuse is abuse is abuse)...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ffice.html

http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2 ... change-hq/ (containing links to more info)

There are not now and there have never been any links whatsoever between the publicly stated position on child abuse of Newcorpse (Brookes/'Sarahs Law'), the real situation wrt to child abuse (as is becoming clear), and the lack of any MSM investigation into the links between the elites of the US and UK, Bohemian Grove and their, at best, odd practices (each year, the attendees perform the ceremony of 'The Cremation Of Care'). Absolutely none. No connection. Definitely not.

http://rt.com/usa/bohemian-blair-powell-guccifer-811/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

http://bohemiangroveexposed.com/

où est mon chapeau de papier d'aluminium

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:05 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

This is Nigel Farage's mum. Yes, really.

Can see where he gets his oddball 'end of the pier' persona from.

More pics of her déshabillé over at the Mail if anyone cares to look.
To be fair she was doing it for charity.

She'd obviously finished cleaning behind the fridge by this point

...and as a parent, I know you can't always control the worst excesses of your progeny.

Edited to remove offending pic

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:05 am

Morning, peeps,

Sad to see that Roger Helmet is divorcing his second wife after getting caught visiting massage parlours. And he says gay marriage undermines the sanctity of the institution, right?

Also, with reference to Rochester and Strood, what do people think of the idea that Labour are running a Rope a Dope sch me, using the process to introduce their candidate and then letting UKIP and the Tories waste their war chests scoring political points off each other for the winner to sit in post for three months, including Christmas break, before the whole shooting match has to be run again when the general election campaign starts in February?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:08 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, it's certainly that. But not sure it's the area I see as most immediately in need of some radical change ... or that will resonate with public. We could do with some of that radical thinking and action in other policy areas.

And trouble with reform / abolition of HoL as Lib Dems and coalition have found is that it has a tendency to suck a load of time and energy out for very little shift and return - so far. They are real limpets.

I am of the the exact opposite opinion. House of Lords reform is one of the highest priority issues for me and I would have been extremely disappointed if Labour didn't have some serious proposals on this in their manifesto. The biggest mistake New Labour made was lack of ambition. They had the mandate, they were in a position to make changes that had permanence, yet in a few short years the Coalition government has reversed everything they did. That's because destruction is so much quicker and easier to achieve than construction. The endless swing from one to the other is an extremely costly way to run a country and has to end. Electoral reform is of utmost importance because otherwise anything Labour achieves if it does achieve power may once again only be fleeting. Not to mention the fact that the Tory cronies David Cameron has stuffed the Lords with will make life difficult for any left-wing government. To add further to the unelected chamber to reflect the latest popular vote (Cameron's madhatter Lord's policy) will swell the HofL to ridiculous proportions. Something has to be done and if that something can generate headlines along the lines of "Labour to scrap the House of Lords" then it's along the right tracks. People want change and abolishing the House of Lords is a simple and powerful way of communicating a readiness to implement real and lasting change.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:13 am

DonutHingeParty wrote:Morning, peeps,

Sad to see that Roger Helmet is divorcing his second wife after getting caught visiting massage parlours. And he says gay marriage undermines the sanctity of the institution, right?

Also, with reference to Rochester and Strood, what do people think of the idea that Labour are running a Rope a Dope sch me, using the process to introduce their candidate and then letting UKIP and the Tories waste their war chests scoring political points off each other for the winner to sit in post for three months, including Christmas break, before the whole shooting match has to be run again when the general election campaign starts in February?

I hadn't thought of it that way and I like it! Sounds like the clever sort of thing a grown up party with serious aspirations of (to?) power might do

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:15 am

DonutHingeParty wrote:Morning, peeps,

Sad to see that Roger Helmet is divorcing his second wife after getting caught visiting massage parlours. And he says gay marriage undermines the sanctity of the institution, right?

Also, with reference to Rochester and Strood, what do people think of the idea that Labour are running a Rope a Dope sch me, using the process to introduce their candidate and then letting UKIP and the Tories waste their war chests scoring political points off each other for the winner to sit in post for three months, including Christmas break, before the whole shooting match has to be run again when the general election campaign starts in February?

Re. Rochester, makes sense to me. Naushabah Khan is a very strong candidate, it was an honour to help out with her doorstep campaign a couple of weeks back; the noises we were getting is that she is respected in the area by many, and this campaign will raise her profile (she has had a lot of support from HQ, including visits from Ed and other senior figures), but that people may well vote UKIP this time to give the Tories a bloody nose - Reckless wasn't much liked by many I spoke to, and I think they will be glad to see the back of him next year.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:19 am

Spacedone wrote:That's not his Mum. She doesn't have a pint in her hand or anything.

Of course she doesn't. Everybody knows it is a pint for the man, white wine or fruit based drink for the ladies .......

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:19 am

Oh dear...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tributions

..oh dear, oh dear

...and I'm still in the dark as to why Britains' contribution has risen so much since 2010 -

: ukont.PNG (106.52 KiB) Viewed 20559 times

Does anyone know?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:31 am

Lonewolfie wrote:Oh dear...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tributions

..oh dear, oh dear

...and I'm still in the dark as to why Britains' contribution has risen so much since 2010 -

ukont.PNG
Does anyone know?

I don't actually know but the only change that happened in 2010 that could explain it that I can think of was a rise in VAT to 20%. I believe there is a connection between VAT receipts and the EU bill but I'm no expert. Worth looking into, I suspect.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:42 am

Lonewolfie wrote:Oh dear...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tributions

..oh dear, oh dear

...and I'm still in the dark as to why Britains' contribution has risen so much since 2010 -

ukont.PNG
Does anyone know?

It's all Labour's fault?

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:47 am

Willow904 wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:Oh dear...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tributions

..oh dear, oh dear

...and I'm still in the dark as to why Britains' contribution has risen so much since 2010 -

ukont.PNG
Does anyone know?
I don't actually know but the only change that happened in 2010 that could explain it that I can think of was a rise in VAT to 20%. I believe there is a connection between VAT receipts and the EU bill but I'm no expert. Worth looking into, I suspect.

Thanks Willow904....uurmmm...wouldn't that have been a fully foreseeable effect then?

Sorry....BUT WHO THE F*****G F*******Y F**K put these F*****G CHILDREN IN CHARGE?

Oh...that's right - this c***...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg

(Sincere apologies for the sweariness

...red mist got the better of me and don't have time to rewrite)

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 11:47 am

frightful_oik wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:Oh dear...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tributions

..oh dear, oh dear

...and I'm still in the dark as to why Britains' contribution has risen so much since 2010 -

ukont.PNG
Does anyone know?
It's all Labour's fault?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 12:08 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Giselle, re. your Tom Watson request, can you ask him why he thinks it clever to be undermining the Labour Party in the run up to the General Election?

What has he been doing now??

I like him on the whole, but he can be infuriating......

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 12:08 pm

Good afternoon.

I asked this as I departed last night - but has anyone heard from ohsocynical who has been conspicuous by her absence?

I caught, last night and through the haze of sleep, a bit of BBC News24's newspaper review. There was a photo' in one of the papers of Ed Miliband giving money to someone begging on the street. Some sort of terrible gaffe, apparently. It was A Bad Thing. I switched off in exasperation so don't know the details - or the newspaper concerned. Does anyone know any more, please? I've had a bit of a look but haven't yet come across the article which is probably headed something along the lines of "Ed Miliband in Show of Compassion Scandal".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 12:12 pm

That Miliband photo has been quite a big thing on social media - the allegation is that the Huff Post had several pics of him doing this and deliberately picked the most unflattering one (hard to believe that, I know)

Re ohso - IIRC she is on Twitter, has she been posting lately?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 12:13 pm

Each country's payment is divided into three parts: a fixed percentage of gross national income (GNI), customs duties collected on behalf of the EU (known as "traditional own resources") and a percentage of VAT income.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm

VAT went down to 15% in Dec 2008, went back up to 17.5% in Jan 2010 and then rose to 20% in Jan 2011. I'm not sure it completely explains the sudden jump in 2010. Blair's rebate reduction ran from 2007-2013. It was supposed to be 20% less throughout this time but Cameron's negotiations for a freeze in the EU budget in 2010 may have impacted on the original Blair agreement of 2005, I don't know. What I do know is that it is really hard hunting down this stuff without knowing where to look! Which makes me think it must have been Cameron's cock-up somehow, because otherwise why is the press so shy about the reasons behind the sudden increase?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 12:27 pm

Morning.

Lovely sunny day here.

Today I voted "Yes" for Unison to retain their political fund and in "trauma" after the visage of Cameron appeared on a Tory Party "survey"-unsolicited mail of a offensive nature,there should be a law against it.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 12:33 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good afternoon.

I asked this as I departed last night - but has anyone heard from ohsocynical who has been conspicuous by her absence?

I caught, last night and through the haze of sleep, a bit of BBC News24's newspaper review. There was a photo' in one of the papers of Ed Miliband giving money to someone begging on the street. Some sort of terrible gaffe, apparently. It was A Bad Thing. I switched off in exasperation so don't know the details - or the newspaper concerned. Does anyone know any more, please? I've had a bit of a look but haven't yet come across the article which is probably headed something along the lines of "Ed Miliband in Show of Compassion Scandal".

Independent has the story in their printed edition but not online.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 12:33 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Giselle, re. your Tom Watson request, can you ask him why he thinks it clever to be undermining the Labour Party in the run up to the General Election?
What has he been doing now??

I like him on the whole, but he can be infuriating......

Nothing specific, but give him time ...... I've kinda lost patience with him.

PorFavor, he made the mistake of giving money to a street beggar when there were lots of photographers around; needless to say this was a Bad Thing because:

a) he looked awkward doing it. Don't we all? I know I do, a mixture of guilt, anger & embarrassment that such a thing is necessary.
b) He only gave a coin (some are saying 2p) not paper money. Of course if he had stopped, pulled out his wallet and given a note he would have been accused of doing it for a photo op. And I don't know what coinage it was, but I rather suspect that may have been all he had in his pocket.

Now, the cynic in me thinks that part of the reason the usual damage control team has leaped into action is because Ed giving that money (however much it was) is in marked contrast to Sir George Young's alleged "the homeless are what you step over when you come out of the opera" and BoJo's no tolerance campaign against rough sleepers in London; he has, once again, shown his basic humanity and highlighted their own callousness.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10 ... 82608.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 1:00 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:That Miliband photo has been quite a big thing on social media - the allegation is that the Huff Post had several pics of him doing this and deliberately picked the most unflattering one (hard to believe that, I know)

Re ohso - IIRC she is on Twitter, has she been posting lately?

Hello.

Thanks for the response.

Re ohsocynical - I haven't been aware of her around these parts for a couple of days now. But if she's Twittering (isn't she now one of our designated "Twitterers"?) then she's still around and firing on all four cylinders, I presume.

Edited to add

I've just checked Twitter (I think - not my area of expertise!) and she hasn't posted anything, so says the site (assuming she's going under her FTN name which I've inferred she is).

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 1:15 pm

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose........

Maximus, the company taking over from Atos for the WCA, has some very interesting members of staff in the UK.

Alasdair Emslie, whose company Health Management is a subsidiary of Maximus in the UK, is also working for OHAssist, which is the new name for Atos Healthcare's occupational health division in the UK.
Maximus and OHAssist (ie.Atos) run the government's Fit For Work programme in which someone calls a sick employee at home and decides that they should go back to work whatever their doctors say.

Professor Michael O'Donnell, is also a director of Health Management, and is a fairly new appointment - he was until recently a director of Atos Healthcare, something he has now removed from his LinkedIn profile. Maximus say he is not going to be involved in "administering the new contract" and they are "in the process of appointing a chief medical officer in this role".
O'Donnell also worked for Unum, and wrote this "We know that our views and understanding are not yet in the mainstream of doctor's thinking, but government policy is moving in the same direction, to a large extent being driven by our thinking and that of our close associates".

The DWP said this - "To make sure there is a seamless transfer from Atos, Maximus will inevitably draw on many of the existing Atos assessors. Mike O'Donnell is Medical Director of the Health Management Limited and will not be supporting Maximus in it's management of the work capability assessment contract".

So - what to deduce from all this?

Atos Healthcare is a subsidiary of Atos IT Services UK. Atos Healthcare continues to supply assessments to DWP under that name.
It used to supply occupational health services under that name to many large companies and government departments - that branch of the business is now called OHAssist.
Atos Healthcare has various links to Unum - despite the denials from both companies. Unum funds a research centre in Cardiff presided over by the ex-DWP medical chief Mansel Aylward who was instrumental in the development of the WCA, which is based on LIMA software pioneered by Unum and owned in the UK by Atos.

The Chief medical Officer of Unum was Michael O'Donnell, who then became CMO of Atos Healthcare, who is now working for Health Management.
He has written various papers in which he opines that the bio/psych/social model of illness and disability must be integrated into "welfare" as it is in insurance, and has stated that to do this it is necessary to have an adherent at the forefront of political influence - hence the investment by Unum into the research centre at Cardiff and the active promotion of Mansel Aylward.
The head honcho at Health Management is Alasdair Emslie, who works for Maximus in reality, and is now the President of the Society of Occupational Medicine - this is a charity, not to be confused with the Faculty of Occupational Medicine which is an accredited member of the Royal Colleges of Medicine and is the recognised statutory body for the specialty.

Staff working for Atos Healthcare will be moving to Maximus, as DWP has confirmed. Maximus denies so far that O'Donnell will be involved in the management of the WCA contract, but as their CMO in the UK I don't see how he can pretend that he won't be; and he has chosen to erase where possible his associations with Atos.
Tony Stalgis, who is the Service Delivery Director of OHAssist, has not chosen to erase his work history with Atos and his office is in the Head Office of Atos in Leeds. Lisa Allan hasn't hidden her background either - she's been with Atos since 2000, and now with OHAssist in the same job in the same place for a year.

All of these people belong to the same professional groups and all work for the same companies under different names and guises.
The companies and the people are all linked.
Maximus will be no different from Atos or Unum because the people people who lead it in the UK are the same people who led Atos and in some cases still do - nothing will change.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 1:29 pm

The more I look at this EU bill, the more complicated it gets! I've discovered our contribution went up by 1bn in 2010 and the rebate went down by 1.6bn. The complicated bit is I keep finding snippets of information that suggests that the size of the rebate is dependent upon (among other things) VAT receipts! Our rebate is also reduced by a higher percentage of CAP payments to new members, something which explains the more recent hikes in our contributions for which Cameron does have to take responsibility for, apparently.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 1:34 pm

I've now found the Ed Miliband donation story in the "Telegraph".

I can think many reasons for him finding the situation uncomfortable. One being that he was conscious of his stated intention to eschew photo' opportunities yet being unable to simply pass on by without offering at least some help despite it. What does a man with a conscience do? He'd have got hammered by the press either way, no doubt. So he opted for the route which at least offered something to someone.

Remember his "press not welcome" work at Christmas.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 1:50 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:That Miliband photo has been quite a big thing on social media - the allegation is that the Huff Post had several pics of him doing this and deliberately picked the most unflattering one (hard to believe that, I know)

Re ohso - IIRC she is on Twitter, has she been posting lately?

Hello.

Thanks for the response.

Re ohsocynical - I haven't been aware of her around these parts for a couple of days now. But if she's Twittering (isn't she now one of our designated "Twitterers"?) then she's still around and firing on all four cylinders, I presume.

Edited to add

I've just checked Twitter (I think - not my area of expertise!) and she hasn't posted anything, so says the site (assuming she's going under her FTN name which I've inferred she is).

I'm fairly sure her twitter ID is @dimayray & if it is, she hasn't posted anything since Oct 30th.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 2:17 pm

Lonewolfie wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:Oh dear...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... tributions

..oh dear, oh dear

...and I'm still in the dark as to why Britains' contribution has risen so much since 2010 -

ukont.PNG
Does anyone know?
I don't actually know but the only change that happened in 2010 that could explain it that I can think of was a rise in VAT to 20%. I believe there is a connection between VAT receipts and the EU bill but I'm no expert. Worth looking into, I suspect.
Thanks Willow904....uurmmm...wouldn't that have been a fully foreseeable effect then?

Sorry....BUT WHO THE F*****G F*******Y F**K put these F*****G CHILDREN IN CHARGE?

Oh...that's right - this c***...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg

(Sincere apologies for the sweariness ...red mist got the better of me and don't have time to rewrite)

afternoon all
Part of this is also - without a word of a lie - due to "earnings" from the black market being included in our GDP (or some national earnings) figures as that made us look good and more prosperous than we actually are.
Black market "earnings" included estimates of "profits" from prostitution and drug dealing...
Will look for a link - only just got home form shopping - but last week there was a short interview with an EU treasury lady (Latvian if anyone knows her name) who said with a slightly twisted smile/grin..
"This is based on figures provided by your own treasury, perhaps they need to be more precise in their calculations". Then turned her back and walked away. Think it was on C4 news.

Hope Ohso is OK - fingers crossed.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 2:24 pm

OK, so its not just us that counted black market earnings
Counting Drugs and Prostitution in GDP Makes a Mockery of Budget Rules

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... ion-in-gdp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 2:36 pm

Full Fact has an article about EU payments:

https://fullfact.org/europe/uk_pay_eu_b ... nomy-35944" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 2:54 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Giselle, re. your Tom Watson request, can you ask him why he thinks it clever to be undermining the Labour Party in the run up to the General Election?
What has he been doing now??

I like him on the whole, but he can be infuriating......
Nothing specific, but give him time ...... I've kinda lost patience with him.

PorFavor, he made the mistake of giving money to a street beggar when there were lots of photographers around; needless to say this was a Bad Thing because:

a) he looked awkward doing it. Don't we all? I know I do, a mixture of guilt, anger & embarrassment that such a thing is necessary.
b) He only gave a coin (some are sayin

g 2p) not paper money. Of course if he had stopped, pulled out his wallet and given a note he would have been accused of doing it for a photo op. And I don't know what coinage it was, but I rather suspect that may have been all he had in his pocket.

Now, the cynic in me thinks that part of the reason the usual damage control team has leaped into action is because Ed giving that money (however much it was) is in marked contrast to Sir George Young's alleged "the homeless are what you step over when you come out of the opera" and BoJo's no tolerance campaign against rough sleepers in London; he has, once again, shown his basic humanity and highlighted their own callousness.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10 ... 82608.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The potential for burst photography to capture such awkward moments has been used on ED more than a few times. It represents exactly that a moment in a continuum of action. Trying to imply motivation, mindset or anything else from such carefully chosen 'moments' still fools the public, who love this knee jerk stuff. It seems likely he acted spontaneously as passing, judging from the picture itself, and was actually almost past the action itself. In this way the camera can be made to lie over and again. Especially to prove this particular man is a soulless weirdo.

Just noticed this

ty to whoever made it available.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 2:57 pm

Did anyone catch a Beeb report on police cautions this morning? Something to do with a Grayling announcement.....

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 3:01 pm

I've said this repeatedly at t'other place, but as it seems relevant. . .

In the 1980s Britain was poor. Because we didn't get as much out of the CAP Thatcher managed to get a rebate in exchange for not rocking the boat. This was at the time of EU butter mountains and wine lakes. In 2003 we were not so poor, although we did have a shortage of skilled tradesmen (as everyone who could build was self employed doing up property). The EU had become so awesome that 8 countries wanted to join, but there would be a cost for that. Britain was asked to stump up some money for ten years which was roughly the same amount as our rebate. France had been getting sniffy and saying that as we weren't so poor we shouldn't still be getting the rebate anyway. Blair agreed that we would offset our rebate for ten years to cover the cost of the A8 reasoning that the increase in GDP would make it worthwhile, and shutting the French up. Ten years later, that offset expired, enabling Cameron to effectively pay more to the EU than we thought, and as there was no longer an A8 fund for us to contribute to, no one noticed.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 3:04 pm

seeingclearly wrote:Did anyone catch a Beeb report on police cautions this morning? Something to do with a Grayling announcement.....

The BBC has written it up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29859758" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as I am aware this was never mentioned prior to today yet it comes into force today !

Grayling seems to slither under the radar as far as the media is concerned.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 3:11 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

Radical enough for everybody?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29857849" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Me like. Me also like FibDem faux outrage. Those pricks brought their HoL disaster on themselves. They deserved what they got, and whilst I voted for AV in the referendum, I wasn't at all surprised that those two faced shystersgot an absolute shoeing from the electorate. The only surprise was that they were surprised. The sooner that party is destroyed for good, the better.