Monday 3rd November 2014

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:35 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AndrewSparrow @AndrewSparrow · 39s 39 seconds ago
No 10 says Cameron wants to stop free movement being an 'unqualified right' in EU - full summary of lobby briefing - http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ome-office" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
He's entered into cloud cuckoo land now.

There is speculation out there. I think that reflects that no decisions have been taken.

David Cameron

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:42 pm

Jesse Norman=- that tax mailshot thing can't be propaganda because it's "a graph". And the way it's presented was "pored over by civil servants"

Post by **refitman** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:45 pm

What the Tories won’t tell you in their ‘transparent’ tax statement
Only 3% of the welfare budget goes on unemployment, 46% goes on pensions. But if they told us that, how could they justify more cuts?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... sions-cuts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Someone at the Graun's spotted the bullshit.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:47 pm

The state pension is separated out. Benefits to pensioners aren't.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:50 pm

FFS long bit on Daily Politics about Labour dissent over the Mansion Tax.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:54 pm

Apparently it doesn't solve property speculation.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:58 pm

Would have hoped for better from Griff Rhys Jones.

''Pay Labour's mansion tax? I'm moving abroad, says Griff Rhys Jones
Griff Rhys Jones says he would move to a 'massive palace' abroad if Labour introduce the 'fatuous' tax''
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... Jones.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:59 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:The state pension is separated out. Benefits to pensioners aren't.

Some of them are - pension credit, 5% and winter fuel allowance, 2%.

So 46% on state pensions plus 7% on those two benefits targeted at pensioners - I make that 53% - more than half - of 'welfare' spending going to pensioners.

But the Mail will still obsess over any benefit that a 'migrant' might be able to qualify for - or the raging out of control problem of 0.07% of fraud.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:09 pm

yahyah wrote:Would have hoped for better from Griff Rhys Jones.

''Pay Labour's mansion tax? I'm moving abroad, says Griff Rhys Jones
Griff Rhys Jones says he would move to a 'massive palace' abroad if Labour introduce the 'fatuous' tax''
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... Jones.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheerio then.

Ashcroft has just tweeted that one party has recorded it's lowest share of the vote since he started the weekly polling, think you can safely assume it's Labour?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:11 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
yahyah wrote:Would have hoped for better from Griff Rhys Jones.

''Pay Labour's mansion tax? I'm moving abroad, says Griff Rhys Jones
Griff Rhys Jones says he would move to a 'massive palace' abroad if Labour introduce the 'fatuous' tax''
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... Jones.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheerio then.

Ashcroft has just tweeted that one party has recorded it's lowest share of the vote since he started the weekly polling, think you can safely assume it's Labour?

Dums?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:15 pm

Don't think we've had this

Populus
Con 34 (nc)
Lab 35 (+1)
LD 9 (+1)
UKIP 13 (-2)
GRN 4 (-1)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:18 pm

OhSo's been viewing, hope thinks ok with you if you read this, we were concerned about your absence.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:19 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
yahyah wrote:Would have hoped for better from Griff Rhys Jones.

''Pay Labour's mansion tax? I'm moving abroad, says Griff Rhys Jones
Griff Rhys Jones says he would move to a 'massive palace' abroad if Labour introduce the 'fatuous' tax''
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... Jones.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheerio then.

Ashcroft has just tweeted that one party has recorded it's lowest share of the vote since he started the weekly polling, think you can safely assume it's Labour?
Dums?

Distinct possibility, hope so?!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:19 pm

Alastair Campbell @campbellclaret · 18h 18 hours ago
Have known and worked with Alistair Darling for a couple of decades. Great guy, and was a good minister in every job he did. Politics' loss

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:19 pm

Hi yahyah think you may have missed a few posts. PK1 posted populus and Ohso was here

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:22 pm

Well said Suzanne Moore

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... sions-cuts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tory-tax-statement-welfare-budget-unemployment-pensions-cuts

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:24 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hi yahyah think you may have missed a few posts. PK1 posted populus and Ohso was here

Sorry, will go back and check, have been eating lunch at the same time as reading FTN, hence Marmite and toast crumbs everywhere as well as missing those posts.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:31 pm

yahyah wrote:Would have hoped for better from Griff Rhys Jones.

''Pay Labour's mansion tax? I'm moving abroad, says Griff Rhys Jones
Griff Rhys Jones says he would move to a 'massive palace' abroad if Labour introduce the 'fatuous' tax''
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... Jones.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But isn't the idea that the tax is levied on the property, not the individual, whether you're a Welsh comedian or a Liberian despot, so if he leaves the country, all very well, but the tax will keep getting rolled up and up until he actually either sells the thing, or dies and passes it onto his kids - and then he gets slapped with a shiny tax bill that someone has to pay, or else he loses the property.

Unless he's saying that he won't buy up any more British properties to "do up" in which case I say "Good. That was the point of the policy."

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:43 pm

The leader of the Labour group in K&C seemed think the tax could be avoided by owning the place through a company. I wouldn't think so. Presumably the company would pay it.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:46 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:The leader of the Labour group in K&C seemed think the tax could be avoided by owning the place through a company. I wouldn't think so. Presumably the company would pay it.

The only exceptions that have been approved are if part of the property is open to the public; to protect places like Burleigh, Chatsworth and Buckingham Palace. Presumably we can look forward to the Roman Abramovich Experience opening soon in Kensington.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 1:48 pm

Ah, I think she must have meant that they could avoid being hit personally by the company paying.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:13 pm

I missed this from yesterday.

Don’t fight it … work in London, regional cities told
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 34338.html
Professionals living in Britain’s provincial cities should commute to London for “a day or two a week” to earn more money, and stop being jealous of the capital’s economic success, a former Conservative minister has suggested.

In echoes of Norman Tebbit’s infamous “get on your bike” remarks in the 1980s, John Redwood told a meeting of council leaders that people living in Britain’s smaller cities should not fight against the dominance of London but be prepared to travel to take advantage of it.

“I’m one of the few that goes around to the rest of England and says, ‘It is good news that our capital city is so colossally successful – so don’t fight it, work with it”, he told a New Local Government Network debate. “When I last met a load of business people in Liverpool … those who were earning the most were doing a day or two days a week in London… That is exactly how you should harness the mighty capital with this phenomenal economic success.”

Keith Wakefield, leader of Leeds City Council, said Mr Redwood’s remarks showed “how out of touch these Tories are”. He added: “We hear all these empty promises about how they want to help the North, but they really don’t understand people up here at all.”...

Who is HS2 really meant to benefit? Discuss.

I think Redwood is another one deserving of one of my words beginning with a p ... - Plonker, pillock, p***ck. Take your pick.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:17 pm

Debate at 2.30 with Mark Harper on ESA cuts as reported. http://m.parliamentlive.tv/MeetingStatus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:17 pm

Who is HS2 really meant to benefit? Discuss.

Provided other stuff is done, Birmingham more than anywhere.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:20 pm

Ohso, hope you're feeling better. Keep well.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:24 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Who is HS2 really meant to benefit? Discuss.
Provided other stuff is done, Birmingham more than anywhere.

It will just destroy all the affordable places our creatives currently inhabit, and the commuter classes will move in. Without other employment development it won't do anything.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:44 pm

Just in term of artists, it'll create lots more custom for them, and fewer will have to move to London for career reasons.

It won't get anything like as silly for houseprices as London, but even here, with sodding Johnson as Mayor, there are lots of artists living in Hackney, Tower Hamlets etc, which are very near the City.

Birmingham could do itself a big favour in terms of "branding" in protecting arty places. It wouldn't have to grab the money like parts of London have.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:50 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Alastair Campbell @campbellclaret · 18h 18 hours ago
Have known and worked with Alistair Darling for a couple of decades. Great guy, and was a good minister in every job he did. Politics' loss

Quite a few people weren't happy with him cancelling eg the Leeds Supertram. But in fairness to Darling, there've been some financial problems with other trams (not least in Edinburgh).

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:52 pm

It's not just artists, it's out self employed creative workers. I don't think you grasp how few opportunities there are here and how little we want people to just move here so they can commute to the south. It will send our house prices sky high, and local,people will lose out. What we really need, like many other cities are some real efforts to create some means to work, not a rail link that will act as a proxy for the help we really need.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 2:54 pm

IDS obscuring reality again. Reeves really is hopeless.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:11 pm

Last weekend my constituency chose it's candidate for the next GE, to say I am underwhelmed is an understatement. I wasn't there, I was in London but I knew the result reasonably quickly. The Morning Star here have a few things wrong, it also has a few things the winning candidate chose not to divulge.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-93 ... FeVRtFybrc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For starters it was a ridiculously long drawn out process, how some can do it in a matter of weeks and others can't is beyond me, only 6 put their name forward, 6, in a safe seat like Neath, a 99.9% chance of Labour winning! Ok, the AWS didn't help, and a few capable local men had their noses put out of joint, they were rightly aggrieved. But 6 FFS, almost wish I had put my name forward for the hell of it.

The winning candidate, Christina Rees, Christ, where do I start? She came to the ward selection promising all kind of golden nuggets, bring back everything that was sold back into public ownership, all very well and good, no mention of the cost, no mention of how markets would react, I would like to be able to say ''fuck the markets'' but unfortunately it isn't that easy, she was very strong on coming down hard on business, possibly playing to the gallery? But according to the Star has been previously backed by effing Progress? They are hardly radical are they? She turned up a friends house, a church goer and spoke of her ''faith'' never mentioned her faith to anyone else, done her research well?

The MS has a few things right, and a few wrong, the ''parachute'' handled herself with credit, and even though she wasn't ''local'' would have been an asset, anyway this is turning into a rant, suffice to say next May I will be helping out elsewhere, there's a few Tories a drive away, i'd sooner get shot of them.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:14 pm

seeingclearly wrote:It's not just artists, it's out self employed creative workers. I don't think you grasp how few opportunities there are here and how little we want people to just move here so they can commute to the south. It will send our house prices sky high, and local,people will lose out. What we really need, like many other cities are some real efforts to create some means to work, not a rail link that will act as a proxy for the help we really need.

The self-employed creative workers will get a bigger Birmingham scene for starters, with more customers and sponsorship available.

Having the life sucked out of it by London is something that happens to places the size of Gravesend. Hasn't happened to eg Brighton, which has the same sort of commuting time Birmingham will have. When a place already has a size and a status, it shouldn't decline when it gets good transport links. The development, handled intelligently, leads to improvements there- Tower Hamlets has done that very well, doing up its housing stock and building as much as a small borough can. A city can do far more.

You can plan for increases in population and mitigate London-style house prices. London's problem is that it's a "world city", which Birmingham wouldn't be.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:23 pm

By the way, how do you create jobs in Birmingham?

Surely transport links and facilities are an important part of that. It'll be, arguably, the best connected city in England. Some places, like Newcastle and Edinburgh get shorter times to Birmingham than to London, the reverse happening now.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:26 pm

Murphy on 27 nominations for Scottish leader, so far, Findlay on 11 and Boyrack on 10.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:30 pm

The city itself needs huge inward investment, and support from government. It's not been getting that, HS2 will take some time, in the meantime nothing will happen, and frankly not hearing how difficult things are here doesn't help. We've got young people in desperate straits here, being told to lose their skills and ambitions. Many of them have excellent creative skills and knocking the heart out of our creative districts will not help that at all. Investment from the EU is what has held us together for a long time, thanks to this terrible government that is likely to slow down, and God help us if the Tories return. I just don't know how you can argue a rail link will help, it's not even coming directly into the city. It will only be useful if huge amounts of other things happen, and no one is even talking about that.

We've talked about this before. Your ideas on this do not stand up to any kind of Birmingham based scrutiny. People here do not need an influx from the south.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:32 pm

Change the way government happens, move it to Birmingham, then things might change otherwise we need proper investment, non-tory style.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:34 pm

But hey, last week Labour were on course to lose all but 4 of their Scottish seats, today it's only 20!

Onwards and upwards.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:38 pm

I'm not against high speed rail per se, but I don't believe it's Birmingham's most urgent transport need.

As I've said so many times before, for a fraction of the cost, more quickly and with greater impact, the Government could and should IMO get on and upgrade existing lines and stations to take longer, faster and more modern trains. And even more importantly, they should enable modern, integrated, affordable local networks to ensure everybody is connected effectively to their stations.

In short we need better networks more urgently than megafast privileged corridors.

Tubby don't forget you already have an integrated local transport networking London!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:51 pm

Okay - I may be ready to call a halt to reading & posting on the G.

I come running back to the nest & feel guilty for not attending classes here regularly. What's that make me? A foul weather friend? - dropping in here when I get fed up elsewhere?

I like the additional emoticon I've not seen before; the hand smacking the forehead in "dang it" moment.

Oh, the popcorn eater, too!

That firefighter is interesting - firefighters are getting hosed all right - goddamn Tory government.

Good afternoon, peoples.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:53 pm

@Paul

...the Government could and should IMO get on and upgrade existing lines and stations to take longer, faster and more modern trains. And even more importantly, they should enable modern, integrated, affordable local networks to ensure everybody is connected effectively to their stations.

Yes!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:Okay - I may be ready to call a halt to reading & posting on the G.

I come running back to the nest & feel guilty for not attending classes here regularly. What's that make me? A foul weather friend? - dropping in here when I get fed up elsewhere?

I like the additional emoticon I've not seen before; the hand smacking the forehead in "dang it" moment.

Oh, the popcorn eater, too!

That firefighter is interesting - firefighters are getting hosed all right - goddamn Tory government.

Good afternoon, peoples.

Hi CJA
Nice to see you back

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 3:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:Okay - I may be ready to call a halt to reading & posting on the G.

I come running back to the nest & feel guilty for not attending classes here regularly. What's that make me? A foul weather friend? - dropping in here when I get fed up elsewhere?

I like the additional emoticon I've not seen before; the hand smacking the forehead in "dang it" moment.

Oh, the popcorn eater, too!

That firefighter is interesting - firefighters are getting hosed all right - goddamn Tory government.

Good afternoon, peoples.

To be fair, I would probably spend more time on Andrew Sparrow (oo er) if he wasn't on bloody Beta, which doesn't work with my work's set browser of explorer 8.

Camaraderie is all very well, but you can't beat fisking a ranting UKIPPER with facts.

Yes, I said fisKing.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:04 pm

DonutHingeParty wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Okay - I may be ready to call a halt to reading & posting on the G.

I come running back to the nest & feel guilty for not attending classes here regularly. What's that make me? A foul weather friend? - dropping in here when I get fed up elsewhere?

I like the additional emoticon I've not seen before; the hand smacking the forehead in "dang it" moment.

Oh, the popcorn eater, too!

That firefighter is interesting - firefighters are getting hosed all right - goddamn Tory government.

Good afternoon, peoples.
To be fair, I would probably spend more time on Andrew Sparrow (oo er) if he wasn't on bloody Beta, which doesn't work with my work's set browser of explorer 8.

Camaraderie is all very well, but you can't beat fisking a ranting UKIPPER with facts.

Yes, I said fisKing.

Unfortunately that usually results in another rant. Highlights to others how the kipper is behaving but, still, there's no getting through to far too many of them. Sigh.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:05 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB · 3m3 minutes ago
The LDs will be delighted to jump 3% to 10% in today's @LordAshcroft phone poll. LAB down on 29%

I just don't trust these polls, they are so out of step with people I speak to, I don't understand.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:07 pm

CON 30-1
LAB 29-2
LD 10+
UKIP 16-2
GRN 6+1

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:07 pm

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/11/as ... 6-green-6/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:08 pm

Thank you for the attention, friends.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:13 pm

StephenDolan wrote:http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/11/as ... 6-green-6/

I've thanked you all to acknowledge I've read & appreciate the content of your post. I was wary of Ashcroft & Co when Labour were up & I continue to be wary. He's a Tory.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:20 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB · 3m3 minutes ago
The LDs will be delighted to jump 3% to 10% in today's @LordAshcroft phone poll. LAB down on 29%

I just don't trust these polls, they are so out of step with people I speak to, I don't understand.

Yep. There's too much fear, hostility thrown around by current government & supporters to indicate real popularity- it's not hubris, it's ugly. Something is going on - it's not people falling in love with Tories. I don't think Labour's core support is gone either.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 4:23 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:The state pension is separated out. Benefits to pensioners aren't.

State Pension expenditure isn't part of the ("welfare") social security budget? Please clarify because that's not my understanding.