Thursday 6th November 2014

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 6:49 am

Morning all.

" Perhaps unsurprisingly, the net result of all that negative attention has been that Labour’s poll average for October dropped to a new low for the parliament, at 33.5%.

Not that it did the Conservatives much good, except in relative terms (a point we’ll come back to). The Tory share also fell, to 30.9%, itself the lowest share for the Blues this year, though still within the narrow band a point either side of 31.5 that it’s been in since last summer. Indeed, apart from that dip in 2013, the Conservatives have been bumping along in the low-thirties ever since the omnishambles Budget. The concern at Number Ten and CCHQ will be the way that improved government ratings haven’t fed through to improved party scores, particularly given Labour’s decline over the same period."
http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index. ... he-bottom/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And there's the Tories big problem right there. Given that they couldn't get a majority last time how they expect to get one this time?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 7:02 am

Some quality investigative journalism. Nice change from the Guardian.
Luxembourg tax files: how tiny state rubber-stamped tax avoidance on an industrial scale

http://gu.com/p/432dy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 7:29 am

Morning. Labour lead at 1 point on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 5th November -

Con 32%, (no change)
Lab 33%, (-1)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 17%; (+2)

APP -25 (-4)

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:08 am

Morning all...bright and sunny if a bit chilly here in Hope (just North of Peterborough

)

Rupert Murdoch’s News International hoped that by “shopping their own staff” to police the publisher could stave off corporate prosecution over allegations of phone hacking and corrupt payments and save 46,000 jobs in the US, it has been claimed in court.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... CMP=twt_gu

As the excellent Mr Jukes keeps pointing out....the evidence making the news (or rather - being mentioned in court and sometimes reported) is the case for the defence...so the evidence that Rebukakakah signed off cash payments, the MSC losing/not finding documents etc is those charged saying 'not me Guv, look up the line, they all knew' - I wonder who's paying the legal costs?

I'm still amazed that Newcorpse is investigating itself - I can't think of any situation where a trading business can have upwards of 50 employees charged with criminal offences (and many convicted) and when the Police come to call...they can say 'it's all right, we'll investigate it and get back to you'...anyone would think they've been trying to cover up other stuff as well.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:27 am

Morning.

Guardian are having one of their big up the Lib Dem days.

Front page articles :
Cut petrol prices says minister [Danny Alexander]
Clegg; fix railways in the north
Lib Dem minister: prisons in crisis [Simon Hughes 'breaks rank']

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:28 am

Here we go - after Baker - now we will have a series of Lib Dems trying to criticise their own work in government and / or adopt other parties' policies - very very late in the day.

Liberal Democrat justice minister says prison system is in crisis
A Liberal Democrat justice minister has broken ranks and criticised government prison policy as knee-jerk and unsuccessful.

Simon Hughes, minister of state for justice and civil liberties, told the Independent he believed the prison system was in crisis,...

Broken wind from his mouth more like ... sorry (am feeling quite waspish and ungenerous this morning).

and then:

Clegg: fix railways in north of England
Trains and network ‘decrepit’, says deputy PM, calling for modernised links between Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... of-england

Quick Cleggy jump on the northern bandwagon. Have you just remembered you've got a constituency to fight for in 6 months? How long do you think the railways up there have been 'decrepit' for - did it just happen overnight?

Morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:30 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Guardian are having one of their big up the Lib Dem days.

Front page articles :
Cut petrol prices says minister [Danny Alexander]
Clegg; fix railways in the north
Lib Dem minister: prisons in crisis [Simon Hughes 'breaks rank']

Hah - we've noticed the same pattern then yahyah. Pathetic isn't it - mostly because they (Lib Dems and the G) seem to imagine we won't spot what they're doing ...

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:32 am

I've read a bit this a.m. about how that useless, weak, weird looking absolutely totally unelectable Mr Ed has 'brought 2 close allies into the Shadow Cabinet' and 'called for the cavalry' 'just 6 months before the election'

Nothing whatsoever to do with someone fully in control of what they're doing, knowing the MSM are relentlessly negative, knowing there's 6 months 'til the election, knowing Jim Murphy would stand down to focus on Scottish Labour, knowing Lucy Powell works well as the election co-ordinator and that making a change around now starts the ball rolling. I admit to being heartened when I heard Ms Powell stating clearly and categorically the Ed Miliband is a fantastic asset to the Labour Party and she's going to see that he gets out and about bit more, meets a few more people and starts to push back against the negativity. It's almost as thought there is a Party leader who thinks ahead and doesn't take too much notice of tomorrows chip wrappers.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:38 am

Good morning from a very wet Rome...hampering my work somewhat. Looks like a day indoors and using Saturday as a reserve if it stays like this all day.

What have I missed?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:40 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Morning.

Guardian are having one of their big up the Lib Dem days.

Front page articles :
Cut petrol prices says minister [Danny Alexander]
Clegg; fix railways in the north
Lib Dem minister: prisons in crisis [Simon Hughes 'breaks rank']
Hah - we've noticed the same pattern then yahyah. Pathetic isn't it - mostly because they (Lib Dems and the G) seem to imagine we won't spot what they're doing ...

Psychic sisters again !
[Even down to pregnant vets, ours was more than 37 weeks along when she came to the house on our cat's last day]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:43 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Good morning from a very wet Rome...hampering my work somewhat. Looks like a day indoors and using Saturday as a reserve if it stays like this all day.

What have I missed?

Good morning Roger. So it rains in Italy too, does it ... makes me feel a bit better.

Were you here for Woolf stepping down ... inevitably? May apologised.

Norman Baker stepping down as a Home Office minister? May not so secretly cock a hoop.

Politicians of a coalition hue (muddy or red faced) rushing to look north and lavish attention and love up there ...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:46 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Good morning from a very wet Rome...hampering my work somewhat. Looks like a day indoors and using Saturday as a reserve if it stays like this all day.

What have I missed?

Where's the envious smilie icon ?

The Pantheon, Trajan's market, the Forum, Raphael, can feel a bout of Stendhal Syndrome just remembering being there.

May I be nosy and ask are you doing something hands-on and if so what ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:52 am

Lonewolfie wrote:I've read a bit this a.m. about how that useless, weak, weird looking absolutely totally unelectable Mr Ed has 'brought 2 close allies into the Shadow Cabinet' and 'called for the cavalry' 'just 6 months before the election' Nothing whatsoever to do with someone fully in control of what they're doing, knowing the MSM are relentlessly negative, knowing there's 6 months 'til the election, knowing Jim Murphy would stand down to focus on Scottish Labour, knowing Lucy Powell works well as the election co-ordinator and that making a change around now starts the ball rolling. I admit to being heartened when I heard Ms Powell stating clearly and categorically the Ed Miliband is a fantastic asset to the Labour Party and she's going to see that he gets out and about bit more, meets a few more people and starts to push back against the negativity. It's almost as thought there is a Party leader who thinks ahead and doesn't take too much notice of tomorrows chip wrappers.

I only saw the prerecorded segment on Newsnight with Allegra Stratton (looking very cold outside Westminster in the dark) and Powell. I agree Lucy Powell seemed very positive about Ed - but she didn't really get a chance to say much other than that. It felt strangely like a poorly edited piece to me .... as though an awful lot of it had been cut - or alternatively that it had been so cold they had both decided they couldn't stand out there a minute more.

Anyway - this is to say I hope Powell has got some clear strategies and tactics up her sleeve to make sure Ed is able to meet real people and a more rounded picture of him develops in the media as a result. Can FTN tweet Lucy Powell to suggest an interview with Elle please. She's probably the best person to go direct to with suggestions.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 8:57 am

The centre cannot hold under austerity, in Britain or Europe
The crisis is polarising politics from Ireland to Spain, and Labour will sink unless it offers a real alternative
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... d-spain-eu
... The answer for Labour, you might think, is obvious: break with the New Labour timidity that created the space for the SNP, put the interests of working-class voters who backed independence centre stage, and embrace the progressive mood in the country. One of the candidates standing to lead Labour in Scotland, the Edinburgh parliamentarian Neil Findlay, wants to do just that – and put “clear red water” between Labour and the SNP. But the establishment and media favourite Jim Murphy – the austerity and Iraq war enthusiast who championed campaigning for a no vote in harness with the Tories – wants a return to tried-and-failed Blairite formulas.

That would seal Labour’s fate in Scotland – and possibly the rest of Britain, for that matter. Ed Miliband won Labour’s leadership making clear he understood the failure of the economic model and public revulsion at the elites. When he’s turned that into popular policy, as he did last autumn by promising to crack down on the energy cartels, Labour support has surged. But when Labour’s leaders cling to Treasury orthodoxy and drift back towards New Labour tinkering, the numbers slide and Miliband’s media-inflated quirks take centre stage. The lesson from across Europe is there are no political prizes for embracing austerity – it spells failure in opposition and disintegration in government.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:03 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Morning.

Guardian are having one of their big up the Lib Dem days.

Front page articles :
Cut petrol prices says minister [Danny Alexander]
Clegg; fix railways in the north
Lib Dem minister: prisons in crisis [Simon Hughes 'breaks rank']
Hah - we've noticed the same pattern then yahyah. Pathetic isn't it - mostly because they (Lib Dems and the G) seem to imagine we won't spot what they're doing ...

I don't think they spot what they're doing themselves - I think the 'now' culture means that they can say any old sh1t, say the opposite sh1t the following day and, as long as it's delivered with a 'serious' face it becomes a 'valid truth' for them, fully backed up by the squirrel-hunting MSM.

Unfortunately for them, however, some things have changed. Anyone think the Sun (and the rest of Uncle Ruperts' putrid organs) will win the election for Dodgy Dave? (like it/they did for Thatcher in '87 and '92 ('83 would probably be down to the Falklands Conflict, although, again, that probably wouldn't have happened had proper scrutiny been in place and the power to be able to ride roughshod over common sense) As I said yesterday, in 2010 Ashcroft gave between £4m-£5m to the Tories, all spent in key marginals and, IIRC, gained Dodgy Dave around 20 seats because of it (and because he/they (Tories) were an unknown to many as a government), thus allowing him the luxury of following orders and getting into bed with Clegg (metaphorically, I'm sure) and keeping the Ultra-Neo-Con dream alive for another 5 years. At the very least, Newcorpse is weakened and, with the Met still wanting to question Uncle Rupe and potential corporate charges in the offing, 6 months could be a very long time.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:03 am

yahyah wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Good morning from a very wet Rome...hampering my work somewhat. Looks like a day indoors and using Saturday as a reserve if it stays like this all day.

What have I missed?
Where's the envious smilie icon ?

The Pantheon, Trajan's market, the Forum, Raphael, can feel a bout of Stendhal Syndrome just remembering being there.

May I be nosy and ask are you doing something hands-on and if so what ?

Doing some research for my thesis...more than that I'd not like to say.

Anyhow, it's stopped raining so I'm going to shoot off now.

I'll check in this evening.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:09 am

MPs: Failure of IDS’s Work Programme is a scandal
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42188.html

It tells us what we always knew - and there is the inevitable DWP assertion of everything being wonderful at the end of the piece - so general it avoids addressing the specific circumstances of the harder to help people referred to in the report.

But this comment really really shows how destructive - rather than merely futile - the Work Programme is for real people who need help.

MIXO 46 minutes ago
The Work Programme is insane. The opportunities I could have taken had I not been on the work programme over the last two years makes me sick. Could have learned to drive (my social housing landlord started up a scheme for residents..but because I am on the work programme I couldn't take part).
I could have taken part in dozens of local free courses - but because I am on the work programme..cannot do them. Instead I have to sit in front of a "Consultant" who hasn't done anything for me for 2 years apart from pull moody faces and who asks me if I have job searched (of course I have - I would be sanctioned if I didn't) and who desperately wants to take the role of job search police..a role more than adequately undertaken by the job centre.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:13 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:I've read a bit this a.m. about how that useless, weak, weird looking absolutely totally unelectable Mr Ed has 'brought 2 close allies into the Shadow Cabinet' and 'called for the cavalry' 'just 6 months before the election' Nothing whatsoever to do with someone fully in control of what they're doing, knowing the MSM are relentlessly negative, knowing there's 6 months 'til the election, knowing Jim Murphy would stand down to focus on Scottish Labour, knowing Lucy Powell works well as the election co-ordinator and that making a change around now starts the ball rolling. I admit to being heartened when I heard Ms Powell stating clearly and categorically the Ed Miliband is a fantastic asset to the Labour Party and she's going to see that he gets out and about bit more, meets a few more people and starts to push back against the negativity. It's almost as thought there is a Party leader who thinks ahead and doesn't take too much notice of tomorrows chip wrappers.
I only saw the prerecorded segment on Newsnight with Allegra Stratton (looking very cold outside Westminster in the dark) and Powell. I agree Lucy Powell seemed very positive about Ed - but she didn't really get a chance to say much other than that. It felt strangely like a poorly edited piece to me .... as though an awful lot of it had been cut - or alternatively that it had been so cold they had both decided they couldn't stand out there a minute more.

Anyway - this is to say I hope Powell has got some clear strategies and tactics up her sleeve to make sure Ed is able to meet real people and a more rounded picture of him develops in the media as a result. Can FTN tweet Lucy Powell to suggest an interview with Elle please. She's probably the best person to go direct to with suggestions.

You never know - it might be in the plan anyway...if we've thought of it, I'm hopeful someone else will have as well.

Ahh yes...Miss Stratton - still married to the political editor of The Spectator, I see - and has worked for Newscorpe...definitely NOT indoctrinated or mixing in social circles that would preclude any respect or fairness to Labour.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:19 am

Clegg must have been reading the Morning Star.

Saw this piece in the paper copy on Tuesday.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-c5 ... l-services" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:20 am

Animal Aid website will let voters check politicians’ animal welfare credentials
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42292.html

Good move. Politicians of all hues should ignore issues like this at their peril. We are going to be asking questions and checking records.

I'm going to a local meeting organised by our Animal Aid group re campaigning in the run up to the election on Saturday.

We worked with and were helped by Animal Aid during our battle against badger culling in Wales. We put up a similar checker on our website and publicised it - and posted replies or quotes from candidates on it. We had a huge number of hits and I spent a lot of time answering queries from people about their MP's stance or being given evidence of what they had said / written to them (often different from what they stated elsewhere).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:21 am

Morning!

Great post from Wolfie. Yes Labour look well placed to start their campaign in two weeks time, when Cameron will almost certainly be dealing with a total disaster in Rochester & Strood.

I know the bookies can't really be relied on but people choosing to bet on UKIP at 14:1 ON makes it look like a foregone conclusion.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:24 am

yahyah wrote:Clegg must have been reading the Morning Star.

Saw this piece in the paper copy on Tuesday.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-c5 ... l-services" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is part of the reason, possibly, that Mr Ed is keeping his powder dry - why come out now with all guns blazing with shiny new policies, only for the MSM either to rip them apart in false derision (because they don't understand all the big words used and anyway, there's a squirrel over there) or for them to be nicked by the supposed Government.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:34 am

Another good piece from Tuesday's Morning Star

''The government and media are using child abuse scandals to promote the privatisation of children’s care, warns Steve Walker'
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-d6 ... Fs_nDSsUuc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Am going to buy a copy when I go into Lampeter every week.
The news agent remarked that no one buys it apart from a local lad doing his A levels.
She still stocks two copies very day though so must live in hope [not near Peterborough

].

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:39 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning!

Great post from Wolfie. Yes Labour look well placed to start their campaign in two weeks time, when Cameron will almost certainly be dealing with a total disaster in Rochester & Strood.

I know the bookies can't really be relied on but people choosing to bet on UKIP at 14:1 ON makes it look like a foregone conclusion.

Thanks

I just hope Labour increase their share of the vote...and it doesn't seem like an exciting prospect, watching the UKIP Broadcasting Corporation fawning all over itself and their chosen fruitcakes.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:40 am

And wouldn't you know it .... the G politics live blog is another 'Call Clegg' special. FFS - why do they continue with this abject pretence?

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 9:42 am

Good morning all.
To lighten the mood a bit, Bob Mortimer has tweeted a picture of the results of UKIP's genetic engineering - the Faragehound

: Faragehound.jpg (41.46 KiB) Viewed 17401 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 10:06 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Guardian are having one of their big up the Lib Dem days.

Front page articles :
Cut petrol prices says minister [Danny Alexander]
Clegg; fix railways in the north
Lib Dem minister: prisons in crisis [Simon Hughes 'breaks rank']

I suppose I should be, on the "know thine enemy" principle, but I couldn't be bothered to read the latest Simon Hughes breaks wind article in the Guardian.

Good morning, everyone.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 10:24 am

norman smith @BBCNormanS · 3h 3 hours ago
History will judge the Coaltion "very favourably" - Nick Clegg

norman smith @BBCNormanS · 3h 3 hours ago
"The coalition will continue through to the finishing line in May of next year" - Nick Clegg

He makes it sound like a race on a school sports day .... egg and spoon, sack race, stumbling AKA three-legged?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 10:34 am

Peter Jukes @peterjukes · 14h 14 hours ago
Must be said re my last tweets: I've known people who've suffered much worse for 27 years, or 12. The injustice is enormous.

Peter Jukes @peterjukes · 14h 14 hours ago
Help me calculate probability 1) Write article 2) Subject of article writes abusive email 3) Flat broken in to - all within a week?

Peter Jukes @peterjukes · 14h 14 hours ago
One day I'll tell the full story of what goes on in the background of these media trials - extraordinary: and sometimes scary.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 10:36 am

Chris Bryant retweeted
Rachel Reeves @RachelReevesMP · 1h 1 hour ago
Heading down to Rochester & Strood with @kategreenSU to campaign with @naushabahkhan this morning @UKLabour #togetherwekhan

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 10:41 am

Paddy Fisher ‏@paddyukip 20h20 hours ago
“@cgi247: "@Michael_Heaver: Appalled that in Rochester & Strood the Conservatives have put up boards in a graveyard pic.twitter.com/MYairzKVYC"”

Michael Crick
‏@MichaelLCrick
@paddyukip You sure they put them up, not opponent? Recall Tory van in marginal ward, 3am, 1971 Uxbridge by-election, screamed "Vote Labour"

Now that would have really peed people off - 3am - very uncivilised.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:00 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29931463

Allen Lambert (Gamekeeper) given 10-week suspended sentence for deliberately killing 10 buzzards and a sparrowhawk.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:02 am

LadyCentauria wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29931463

Allen Lambert (Gamekeeper) given 10-week suspended sentence for deliberately killing 10 buzzards and a sparrowhawk.

I wonder if he's going to lose his job though?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:09 am

: TheOtherEffigyofAlecSalmond.jpg (50.7 KiB) Viewed 17290 times

Jeepers - that one makes the first effigy seem very benign.

Is it just the angle that photo is shot at - or have they really hitched his kilt up to expose ... well whatever it has exposed?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:13 am

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn · 38m 38 minutes ago
The EAW vote will be on Monday, @WilliamJHague announces. Well ahead of Rochester byelection - surest sign yet Tories think they've lost it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:20 am

Frances Ryan @frances__ryan · 16h 16 hours ago
IDS now trialling IN-WORK sanctions. People who reject extra hours will lose benefits via "in-work conditionality". http://www.expressandstar.com/business/ ... -trialled/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:21 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Guardian are having one of their big up the Lib Dem days.

Front page articles :
Cut petrol prices says minister [Danny Alexander]
Clegg; fix railways in the north
Lib Dem minister: prisons in crisis [Simon Hughes 'breaks rank']

And still at 7% in today's poll - when is the Graun going to stop trying to breathe life into this corpse?

Six months today until the GE, I believe.....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:37 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheOtherEffigyofAlecSalmond.jpg
Jeepers - that one makes the first effigy seem very benign.

Is it just the angle that photo is shot at - or have they really hitched his kilt up to expose ... well whatever it has exposed?

Very odd underside there....lol

A lot of fuss about nothing though, as the society say....
We are a traditional Sussex family bonfire society and have no political affiliations. We can assure that we have no wish or intention to offend and have never found ourselves in a position where we have done so in the past. To clarify we do not burn tableaux. They are incorporated into our firework display.
So there was never any intent to burn him anyway.
and I like this bit
"Can you imagine the uproar amongst Better Together campaigners had Yes supporters burned an effigy of David Cameron?"
Well yeah.... wild applause and cheering?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 11:50 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheOtherEffigyofAlecSalmond.jpg
Jeepers - that one makes the first effigy seem very benign.

Is it just the angle that photo is shot at - or have they really hitched his kilt up to expose ... well whatever it has exposed?
Very odd underside there....lol

A lot of fuss about nothing though, as the society say....
We are a traditional Sussex family bonfire society and have no political affiliations. We can assure that we have no wish or intention to offend and have never found ourselves in a position where we have done so in the past. To clarify we do not burn tableaux. They are incorporated into our firework display.
So there was never any intent to burn him anyway.
and I like this bit
"Can you imagine the uproar amongst Better Together campaigners had Yes supporters burned an effigy of David Cameron?"
Well yeah.... wild applause and cheering?

Perhaps, if that model is to be incorporated into the firework display, the odd underside that has been exposed is actually some sort of custom mount for pyrotechnics...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:05 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheOtherEffigyofAlecSalmond.jpg
Jeepers - that one makes the first effigy seem very benign.

Is it just the angle that photo is shot at - or have they really hitched his kilt up to expose ... well whatever it has exposed?
Very odd underside there....lol

A lot of fuss about nothing though, as the society say....
We are a traditional Sussex family bonfire society and have no political affiliations. We can assure that we have no wish or intention to offend and have never found ourselves in a position where we have done so in the past. To clarify we do not burn tableaux. They are incorporated into our firework display.
So there was never any intent to burn him anyway.
and I like this bit
"Can you imagine the uproar amongst Better Together campaigners had Yes supporters burned an effigy of David Cameron?"
Well yeah.... wild applause and cheering?
Perhaps, if that model is to be incorporated into the firework display, the odd underside that has been exposed is actually some sort of custom mount for pyrotechnics...

Oh my .... whatever .... what a thought, what an image ... Not sure I should be thanking you for planting that Lady C ... but I have. I think it comes under the 'Ooo you are awful and clouts with handbag' category.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:14 pm

Grrr.....

Have finally had a response from the BBC after asking them to confirm/clarify the number of times UKIPers have appeared on Question Time since 2010 and how that may/may not be a lot more than other small parties who had a total of 17 MPs between them.

Typical sh**e BBC evasive answer, not actually tackling my questions and giving a patronising answer.

''Dear Mrs xxxxxxx

Reference xxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for contacting us regarding Question Time.

We understand you have read in a blog that UKIP have appeared on the programme “26 times” and would like to know why this is the case.

We appreciate your concern and while we’re unable to comment on an external blog. The amount of time spent covering a political party depends greatly on the prevailing news agenda, as well as on broader assessments of its electoral support. UKIP have been involved in a number of significant stories affecting UK politics as of late.
In the past few months there have been two high profile defections from the Conservative Party to UKIP, amid speculation that more MPs could follow.
This resulted in the triggering of a by-election in Clacton, which in turn saw UKIP win their first seat in Parliament. UKIP came second in the recent by-election in Heywood and Middleton, only 617 votes behind the Labour Party.
The party’s performance in these by-elections has seen UKIP making inroads in Labour and Conservative strongholds.

Taking all these factors into consideration, it follows that UKIP have featured in our news coverage as of late.
As with any other political party, they have been properly held to account.
The party’s representatives have been suitably pressed and challenged on their policies and positions during flagship programmes like ‘Question Time’, ‘Today’ and ‘Newsnight’.
The 13 October edition of Panorama looked specifically at Nigel Farage’s leadership, exploring his background, business dealings and often controversial political positions.

While discussing core UKIP policies, particularly membership of the EU and immigration, opposing political perspectives have featured, allowing our audience to make up their own minds on the issues at hand.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Kind regards
Patrick Clyde''

I am now going to complain about Patrick Clyde's response, it's obvious they don't even bother to address what you have actually asked/complained about but just send a stock response with a but tacked on.

Anyone ever tried to escalate a request for info/complaint ?
Mr Clyde seems very reluctant to confirm/deny just how many times UKIP have been on QT.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheOtherEffigyofAlecSalmond.jpg
Jeepers - that one makes the first effigy seem very benign.

Is it just the angle that photo is shot at - or have they really hitched his kilt up to expose ... well whatever it has exposed?

I can't believe I've just peered up Salmond's kilt

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:26 pm

Big demo in Brussels today that probably won't get much if any coverage. Looks pretty huge though :

http://rt.com/on-air/protest-government-policies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:28 pm

Lots of rumours on Twitter of a plot to oust Miliband

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:29 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
TheOtherEffigyofAlecSalmond.jpg
Jeepers - that one makes the first effigy seem very benign.

Is it just the angle that photo is shot at - or have they really hitched his kilt up to expose ... well whatever it has exposed?
Very odd underside there....lol

A lot of fuss about nothing though, as the society say....
We are a traditional Sussex family bonfire society and have no political affiliations. We can assure that we have no wish or intention to offend and have never found ourselves in a position where we have done so in the past. To clarify we do not burn tableaux. They are incorporated into our firework display.
So there was never any intent to burn him anyway.
and I like this bit
"Can you imagine the uproar amongst Better Together campaigners had Yes supporters burned an effigy of David Cameron?"
Well yeah.... wild applause and cheering?

There has been a serious loss of perspective on the part of some of the 45ers, the complaints about this effigy being a classic example (don't remember there being as many complaints last year, when the effigy was Katie Hopkins, or in previous years when Cameron, Clegg and Dubya featured).

Another classic was the tweet I saw at the weekend complaining that the package Ed Miliband donated to a Glasgow foodbank was full of products from companies who had supported the 'No' campaign, so was a further example of Labour's disconnection from the people of Scotland; my argument back was that the tweeter was disconnected from the real world, as I doubted the recipients of those packages would give a monkeys about that, they would be more interested in having something to eat!

I've said it before and I'll say it again; some people have forgotten who the real enemy are, and don't care who gets trampled in the march to independence. My genuine worry is that the actions of the SNP and the 45ers will lay the red carpet for Cameron, as they did for Thatcher in 1979.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:45 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Lots of rumours on Twitter of a plot to oust Miliband

Please don't do that. It made my stomach turn cartwheels and I'm still feeling a bit shaky. And I'm not making this up.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 12:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Frances Ryan @frances__ryan · 16h 16 hours ago
IDS now trialling IN-WORK sanctions. People who reject extra hours will lose benefits via "in-work conditionality". http://www.expressandstar.com/business/ ... -trialled/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

This isn't news - the claimants involved are all on Universal Credit.
Which comes with in-built in-work sanctions.

More worrying is the 7-day wait for JSA being applied to ESA too.

JSA claimants have to wait 7 days after notifying the jobcentre that they intend to claim before their claim is registered.
If they do not satisfy the jobcentre that they have fulfilled the conditions for claiming they can be sent away for another 7 days.
At this point they have no Claimant Commitment so have no contractual obligation to do anything.
Nor do they know what the conditions actually are - as they have nothing in writing.
This is effectively a PRE-CLAIM sanction - ie. punishment for failing to comply with conditions for claiming before you have a claim.
A jobcentre could keep this up for weeks.....

Now ESA claimants will have to wait 7 days too.
This is totally unjustifiable on the grounds that the claimant is ill from the date on the doctors' certificate, not a week later.

Historically, all benefit claims based on NI contributions had 3 "waiting days" ie, the first 3 days of any such claim was unpaid.
This was to deter people from claiming between jobs or just for a few days of sickness - back when most claims were NI conts-based.

The rules on NI conts-based benefits changed in the early 80s - the total NI conts record was not taken into consideration any more, only the record of Class 1 conts in specific income-tax years. Miss the year by a day and no conts-based benefits.
If you signed on or were sick for long enough, you could re-qualify for conts-based benefits once you'd accumulated enough NI conts (which are credited when you're on benefits) but that was abolished a while ago (under Labour, I think).

That's why income-based (ie, means-tested) benefits had to be introduced - once they were established, the time limits for claiming conts-based JSA were cut to the current 6 months. This government has cut ESA WRAG entitlement to 12 months, applied retrospectively - so if you were on IB or WRAG ESA for a year prior to a WCA and got WRAG again, no more conts-based benefits.
Abolishing IB has had a knock-on effect on the requalification for conts-based sickness benefits too.

Universal Credit is aimed at means-testing ALL claimants - even though the job is already half done by the other rule changes.
When you add the pre-claim waits, potential for pre-claim sanctions for JSA, plus the in-work sanctions for UC, there are a lot of people who currently have no-question entitlement who will lose it. Just like that.

We have known about the sanctions in the linked article for some time - this is what Universal Credit is all about.
The guidance for jobcentres is very clear - claimants MUST provide evidence that they are looking for more or better work.
If they work 30 hours, they must search for 35 - failure to do this will result in a sanction irrespective of circumstances.
If they work 35 hours at NMW, they must search for better-paid work; if they work 35 hours in a job that the jobcentre adviser doesn't think is "good enough" (and they don't have to say why) they will be required to look for another one, or risk a sanction.

It is becoming increasingly obvious, even to people who don't know much about social security, that means-testing will soon take over completely and NI conts-based benefits will be a thing of the past. That's why the WRA removed the presumption of NI Conts from sick children currently on DLA - we can't have them growing up (if they live that long) with a sense of entitlement, can we?

I happen to think that it's only a matter of time before this will apply to the state pension too. As things are now, people of my age are having to wait 8 years longer than they expected to qualify for their state pension - meanwhile, other pensions or retirement arrangements may kick in rendering people unlikely to be able to claim benefits if they don't have work and want it; moreover, many people are going to have to work a lot longer if they don't have those arrangements, and if they can't find work under UC they may not get benefits either if they have an older partner who is already of pension age.

I am pleased that the paper in the link has noticed this - but it's in no way unexpected. How I wish Labour would sort out some sort of coherent policy on this - Reeves and her twenty questions is all well and good, but she prefaced her letter to IDS with her support for UC. If Labour really do support UC as it is, then they are either thicker than I thought or not the party for the working man/woman.

AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 1:04 pm

PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Lots of rumours on Twitter of a plot to oust Miliband
Please don't do that. It made my stomach turn cartwheels and I'm still feeling a bit shaky. And I'm not making this up.

I think the positive way to look at it it's the Blairites' last stand. Despite everything, it seems quite likely that Labour will emerge at least as the largest party in May and Miliband will become PM.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 1:08 pm

JP Janson De Couet retweeted
Sunny Hundal ‏@sunny_hundal 4m4 minutes ago
Just two Labour MPs want Ed Miliband to stand down? That's quite low. There's about 20 Tory MPs who want Cameron to step down, no? #wato

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 06 Nov, 2014 1:15 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:JP Janson De Couet retweeted
Sunny Hundal ‏@sunny_hundal 4m4 minutes ago
Just two Labour MPs want Ed Miliband to stand down? That's quite low. There's about 20 Tory MPs who want Cameron to step down, no? #wato

There is no mechanism in the Labour Party to oust a leader. There is no ready successor, it is Blairite self harm.

Two MPs, Stringer and Danczuk. Pathetic.