Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th November 2014

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:40 pm

Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 9h9 hours ago Camberwell, London
When oh when are those right-wing rags the Observer and the New Statesman going to lay off Ed Miliband.

Not sure if this is a genuine account or not, but if it is?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:40 pm

Bedroom tax sees Liverpool homes stand empty as they are too expensive to live in
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... es-8073137

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:42 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 9h9 hours ago Camberwell, London
When oh when are those right-wing rags the Observer and the New Statesman going to lay off Ed Miliband.

Not sure if this is a genuine account or not, but if it is?

Oh yes it is genuine, Ohso. That's his normal style - his normal attempt at sarcastic slapdowns of Ed Miliband. I try hard not to repost any of his tweets over here now. But sometimes I can't help it ... my disgust gets the better of me.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:46 pm

Hunt workers are caught on video feeding foxes offal and eggs in bid to boost the population 'for illegal hunting'
Vehicles traced back to hunt's kennels visited the site in Gloucestershire
Men dropped off dead chickens and eggs to feed thriving fox population
Footage showed animals being coaxed out of setts before hounds released
North Cotswold Hunt denies acting in contradiction of Hunting Act 2004
It is illegal to drive foxes to a hunting area with the intent to pursue them
Hunters accused of keeping them in area by providing them with food
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nting.html

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:47 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-trending" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Guardian reporting on webackEd (for those who can still stomach a visit). In brief (for those who can't) Matthew Taylor tells us that "by Sunday evening the #webacked hastag had been trending for almost 24 hours".

gail the instigator of webackEd wrote:“This is not about politicians or the mainstream media. It was about giving Labour party activists and supporters a chance to show that we back Ed and we back Labour.”

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:51 pm

I loved this comparison

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:54 pm

: GovtKillListforWildlife.jpg (82.6 KiB) Viewed 11218 times

https://www.facebook.com/stop.the.cull

Robins. Starlings. Pied wagtails. Badgers. Herring gulls. Buzzards. Cormorants. Grey squirrels. Foxes. The kill list created by the UK government is getting so long it is starting to look like the work of a psychopath. Patrick Barkham

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:56 pm

I remember asking whether Tories were psychopaths on CIF in the run up to the 2010 GE. It got modded.

How times have changed.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 5:59 pm

Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:01 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:I remember asking whether Tories were psychopaths on CIF in the run up to the 2010 GE. It got modded.

How times have changed.

I'm not quite sure how to respond to that TC ... I'm guessing you mean that the G seems to allow any kind of insult BTL these days whereas once they had some kind of standard. But it could just as well mean that nowadays they might actually seek to do something even more heinous to you for daring to cast aspersions on the Tories ... terrible thought.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:04 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:I know we've been here before, but how the hell do we get a press that can offset the right wing dominance? We used to have a public broadcaster which was quite valuable, but that's clearly no longer (and for ages hasn't been) the case. Maybe JK's got a few quid she could spare to set one up a quality paper and pay (among others) some of our star FTNers to provide the content.

If I had more money than Brenda I'd certainly be open to an approach ....
Hi TC, much of the intelligent and thoughtful commentary and analysis has already moved away from the press (as we know it) and onto the t'interwebs, so it follows that that's where the future is likely to be.

Already, places like FTN link to useful and informative sites that are miles more useful than the 'papers' since they quote raw facts and figures and suggest interpretations that you will never, ever find on the Graun and Fail websites. That is why FTN is my goto site and why I can safely discount and ignore the Graun for good. They'll get no more clicks and visits out of me, as it's a waste of my time and energy. The truth lies elsewhere.

That is why I've asked a few times here that if you still bother with the Graun, at least post up our URL in your profile and feel very free to invite switched on posters there to come here and register (and post). We're still slowly gathering new members, but we need more and we need to attract visitors and people who've become equally disillusioned by the crap served up by the MSM.

That is why I'm (personally) very much against the sorts of spat that has - apparently - seen Temulkar stop posting here. I very much regret that. FTN is, or should be, a far wider church than being an adherent of the Labour party. All shades of left are welcome, and any reasonable (ie, not bonkers) right wing poster is welcome here too. There is much to discuss and and all intelligent input is welcome. Remember, if you disagree with a post, it makes you examine your view to be able to reply.

One of the finest comments I've read today & you're up against some good competition. I've been reading here & reading the linked information inside posts.

You're right; I read the articles on the G, for example, reporting something from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), National Audit Office (NAO) or the Labour party. I have to go to the report or press release to get what's really happened or data compiled in a way published freely within their reports.

Egregiously horrid editorialising content on the G & other news websites NOT in the editorial section but reported as fact. When the G is called out on their mistakes, they disappear them - it's rare to find corrections in any place people are likely to see.

I grew accustomed to the G's format, the friends I met there are here, I found out about flythenest from Sparrow's blog & below the line commentary on the G. When the flow of mendacity becomes too great on the G, I come here to "talk" about the links & information really happening but not reported or worse, made up. It's increasingly toxic above & below the line on the G. Exposure to different opinions is a good thing. Chronic abuse from too many below the line toward me, toward other commentators isn't good & it happens too frequently now.

Your post above flipped a switch for me. The G still has commentators posting below the line I love dearly from different sections of news reported. I learn from them what I learn from everyone here.

Organisations & blogs on line post their different kinds information using science, facts & real life descriptions (excellent council meeting in Barnet). It makes good sense to spend less time on the G because it's getting too difficult to read so much inaccuracy after finding facts from sources available elsewhere.

I'm discovering fewer commentators below the line wish to disagree with me about the information from links I post in a meaningful way.

I'll post some there & keep track of those people reporting responsibly & suggest flythenest when it's appropriate to do so - I'll have to think carefully before I suggest it in a post or in my profile elsewhere.

Thank you for mentioning what happens when we vehemently disagree with others. Please stick around & wait to see if we can't continue learning good things from the continued dialogue. No one wants to lose friends. But we don't have to agree with our friends all the time. In fact, that's probably a sign of something not quite right if we're echoing each other - either too superficial, too afraid to contradict someone we admire, don't want to make a "fuss" or we're too insulated from other ideas.

I've written earlier on this thread today to call me out when I've made a mistake or I'm unclear. Don't worry so much. I'm writing all this as advice for myself. I'll post it hoping I've helped my friends who help me.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:05 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:I remember asking whether Tories were psychopaths on CIF in the run up to the 2010 GE. It got modded.

How times have changed.
I'm not quite sure how to respond to that TC ... I'm guessing you mean that the G seems to allow any kind of insult BTL these days whereas once they had some kind of standard. But it could just as well mean that nowadays they might actually seek to do something even more heinous to you for daring to cast aspersions on the Tories ... terrible thought.

Yeah - sorry - logical gap. Indeed I meant that these days it seems the trollerati at least can write whatever the hell they like. I used to like the G's comments sections (even if they made me seethe a bit) but like most people here, these days, it's just not worth the anguish.

Edited to add I take my hat off to those that still post there as I do see the value, but sadly I do not have the ability to stay mist-free myself.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:06 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?

Think it depends on the device you're using. I can put smileys in if I tweet from my phone (because my phone has inbuilt smileys) but not from my iPad/desktop.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:08 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-trending?

Guardian reporting on webackEd (for those who can still stomach a visit). In brief (for those who can't) Matthew Taylor tells us that "by Sunday evening the #webacked hastag had been trending for almost 24 hours".

gail the instigator of webackEd wrote:“This is not about politicians or the mainstream media. It was about giving Labour party activists and supporters a chance to show that we back Ed and we back Labour.”

The headline of this article is so patronising and sneery .... makes my blood boil. And the rest of the tone is similar - apart from the direct quotes from the people who started this wonderful 'attempt'.

Twitter attempt to show support for embattled Ed Miliband is trending
Hashtag to hit back at what activist calls media bias against Labour boss used 50,000 times, showing he does have backing

It's not an attempt - it's a successful Twitter campaign (you headline writer arseholes) - and yes - he does have backing - he has lots of bloody backing from so many of us who want something different to the empty PR Cameron-lite-shite - so no need to sound surprised (you sub headline writing arseholes).

Right, I feel better now.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:09 pm

Pleased to say this Tweet is playing well

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:11 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-trending?

Guardian reporting on webackEd (for those who can still stomach a visit). In brief (for those who can't) Matthew Taylor tells us that "by Sunday evening the #webacked hastag had been trending for almost 24 hours".

gail the instigator of webackEd wrote:“This is not about politicians or the mainstream media. It was about giving Labour party activists and supporters a chance to show that we back Ed and we back Labour.”
The headline of this article is so patronising and sneery .... makes my blood boil. And the rest of the tone is similar - apart from the direct quotes from the people who started this wonderful 'attempt'.
Twitter attempt to show support for embattled Ed Miliband is trending
Hashtag to hit back at what activist calls media bias against Labour boss used 50,000 times, showing he does have backing
It's not an attempt - it's a successful Twitter campaign (you headline writer arseholes) - and yes - he does have backing - he has lots of bloody backing from so many of us who want something different to the empty PR Cameron-lite-shite - so no need to sound surprised (you sub headline writing arseholes). Right, I feel better now.

Soz - didn't mean to set you off! (can we have an emoticon for the sheepish grin of a repeated, yet entirely involuntary stirrer?)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:12 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Pleased to say this Tweet is playing well

Take a bow, FTN tweeter.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:13 pm

pk1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?
Think it depends on the device you're using. I can put smileys in if I tweet from my phone (because my phone has inbuilt smileys) but not from my iPad/desktop.

Thanks - I'm on a desktop so prob can't get them then

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:15 pm

An APOLOGY to Rt Hon George Osborne MP from Tom Pride

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2012/12/0 ... tom-pride/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:15 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?

I think the easiest way is to copy them from somewhere else, into the tweet. This site looks like a good place to start: http://www.piliapp.com/twitter-symbols/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-trending?

Guardian reporting on webackEd (for those who can still stomach a visit). In brief (for those who can't) Matthew Taylor tells us that "by Sunday evening the #webacked hastag had been trending for almost 24 hours".

gail the instigator of webackEd wrote:“This is not about politicians or the mainstream media. It was about giving Labour party activists and supporters a chance to show that we back Ed and we back Labour.”
The headline of this article is so patronising and sneery .... makes my blood boil. And the rest of the tone is similar - apart from the direct quotes from the people who started this wonderful 'attempt'.
Twitter attempt to show support for embattled Ed Miliband is trending
Hashtag to hit back at what activist calls media bias against Labour boss used 50,000 times, showing he does have backing
It's not an attempt - it's a successful Twitter campaign (you headline writer arseholes) - and yes - he does have backing - he has lots of bloody backing from so many of us who want something different to the empty PR Cameron-lite-shite - so no need to sound surprised (you sub headline writing arseholes). Right, I feel better now.

Well said, you, to those sub-arseholes.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:17 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?

My honourable friend, AngryAsWell, wants smileys for Twitter. I don't like using smileys anywhere. That's fine. I don't have to use smileys. I fancy myself a writer. If I can't convey my meaning with words, I consider my attempt a failure. If I use the smileys, I'm less likely to improve my writing. If can use

for example, I'll never refine the words I use to convey that twitchy fellow. I confess, I like the twitching smiley. I use him for illustration in this post only. A picture is worth a thousand words? Yes, true. I should probably love smileys more than I do. We'll see. Perhaps I'm afraid of having to learn the fine art of using smileys. I'll contemplate this alone.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:19 pm

Peter Hunt ‏@tsdpete 9m9 minutes ago
The #webackEd trend has been the creation of the bias #bbc and the right wing press. Sometimes things come back and bite you on the arse.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:20 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?
My honourable friend, AngryAsWell, wants smileys for Twitter. I don't like using smileys anywhere. That's fine. I don't have to use smileys. I fancy myself a writer. If I can't convey my meaning with words, I consider my attempt a failure. If I use the smileys, I'm less likely to improve my writing. If can use for example, I'll never refine the words I use to convey that twitchy fellow. I confess, I like the twitching smiley. I use him for illustration in this post only. A picture is worth a thousand words? Yes, true. I should probably love smileys more than I do. We'll see. Perhaps I'm afraid of having to learn the fine art of using smileys. I'll contemplate this alone.

Sorry if this unnerves you but - you are not alone!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:21 pm

PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-trending?

Guardian reporting on webackEd (for those who can still stomach a visit). In brief (for those who can't) Matthew Taylor tells us that "by Sunday evening the #webacked hastag had been trending for almost 24 hours".

The headline of this article is so patronising and sneery .... makes my blood boil. And the rest of the tone is similar - apart from the direct quotes from the people who started this wonderful 'attempt'.
Twitter attempt to show support for embattled Ed Miliband is trending
Hashtag to hit back at what activist calls media bias against Labour boss used 50,000 times, showing he does have backing
It's not an attempt - it's a successful Twitter campaign (you headline writer arseholes) - and yes - he does have backing - he has lots of bloody backing from so many of us who want something different to the empty PR Cameron-lite-shite - so no need to sound surprised (you sub headline writing arseholes). Right, I feel better now.
Well said, you, to those sub-arseholes.

Yes - they're not even 'Senior' arseholes, are they? Thank you for reminding me of that.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:25 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:That is why I'm (personally) very much against the sorts of spat that has - apparently - seen Temulkar stop posting here. I very much regret that. FTN is, or should be, a far wider church than being an adherent of the Labour party. All shades of left are welcome, and any reasonable (ie, not bonkers) right wing poster is welcome here too. There is much to discuss and and all intelligent input is welcome. Remember, if you disagree with a post, it makes you examine your view to be able to reply.

There is a corollary to that, which is what I was trying to discuss with Temulkar (but sadly things got out of hand); inevitably, because this is a left leaning forum, a fair number of the people posting here will be "adherent(s) of the Labour Party" - that has been shown clearly this weekend. Now, the Labour Party is a broad church - it can accommodate MPs as diverse as the much discussed Mr Danczuk and the admirable Mr Skinner - and this board is an even broader one, with posters who support a number of parties/viewpoints; to that extent I am in full agreement with you, I think that provides the platform for lively and healthy debate ..... in theory at least.

My beef with Tem was that he appeared to use the "you are being partisan" card too quickly and too often; it got to a point where I felt the only people who weren't allowed an opinion was us 'adherents' (I don't think I was alone in feeling that either) so I called him out on it. And, yet again, I will apologise for how heated it got, but I felt strongly about what was happening.

Now if people are still feeling uncomfortable about that episode, if my being here is preventing others from posting, if the feeling is that I am creating an overly partisan atmosphere then I will apologise once again and re-examine my position. Over to you folks.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:31 pm

You being here doesn't make me uncomfortable GS, it would be a loss if you walked IMO..

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-trending?

Guardian reporting on webackEd (for those who can still stomach a visit). In brief (for those who can't) Matthew Taylor tells us that "by Sunday evening the #webacked hastag had been trending for almost 24 hours".

gail the instigator of webackEd wrote:“This is not about politicians or the mainstream media. It was about giving Labour party activists and supporters a chance to show that we back Ed and we back Labour.”
The headline of this article is so patronising and sneery .... makes my blood boil. And the rest of the tone is similar - apart from the direct quotes from the people who started this wonderful 'attempt'.
Twitter attempt to show support for embattled Ed Miliband is trending
Hashtag to hit back at what activist calls media bias against Labour boss used 50,000 times, showing he does have backing
It's not an attempt - it's a successful Twitter campaign (you headline writer arseholes) - and yes - he does have backing - he has lots of bloody backing from so many of us who want something different to the empty PR Cameron-lite-shite - so no need to sound surprised (you sub headline writing arseholes). Right, I feel better now.

Couldn't have said it better myself

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:33 pm

refitman wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?
I think the easiest way is to copy them from somewhere else, into the tweet. This site looks like a good place to start: http://www.piliapp.com/twitter-symbols/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:33 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:That is why I'm (personally) very much against the sorts of spat that has - apparently - seen Temulkar stop posting here. I very much regret that. FTN is, or should be, a far wider church than being an adherent of the Labour party. All shades of left are welcome, and any reasonable (ie, not bonkers) right wing poster is welcome here too. There is much to discuss and and all intelligent input is welcome. Remember, if you disagree with a post, it makes you examine your view to be able to reply.
There is a corollary to that, which is what I was trying to discuss with Temulkar (but sadly things got out of hand); inevitably, because this is a left leaning forum, a fair number of the people posting here will be "adherent(s) of the Labour Party" - that has been shown clearly this weekend. Now, the Labour Party is a broad church - it can accommodate MPs as diverse as the much discussed Mr Danczuk and the admirable Mr Skinner - and this board is an even broader one, with posters who support a number of parties/viewpoints; to that extent I am in full agreement with you, I think that provides the platform for lively and healthy debate ..... in theory at least.

My beef with Tem was that he appeared to use the "you are being partisan" card too quickly and too often; it got to a point where I felt the only people who weren't allowed an opinion was us 'adherents' (I don't think I was alone in feeling that either) so I called him out on it. And, yet again, I will apologise for how heated it got, but I felt strongly about what was happening.

Now if people are still feeling uncomfortable about that episode, if my being here is preventing others from posting, if the feeling is that I am creating an overly partisan atmosphere then I will apologise once again and re-examine my position. Over to you folks.

No please stay!

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:34 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Now if people are still feeling uncomfortable about that episode, if my being here is preventing others from posting, if the feeling is that I am creating an overly partisan atmosphere then I will apologise once again and re-examine my position. Over to you folks.

I may have missed Temulkar saying he's not going to post here again but fwiw, that's down to him. I hope he doesn't feel that way but ultimately that's his choice. You're not the first & nor will you be the last that has felt they needed to stick up for yourself - I had to do it last night.

Please don't change the person you are to suit the demands of others - that's like expecting Ed Miliband to give in to the demands of the press. You're your own man & that's how it should always be.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:34 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 9h9 hours ago Camberwell, London
When oh when are those right-wing rags the Observer and the New Statesman going to lay off Ed Miliband.

Not sure if this is a genuine account or not, but if it is?

Well, hell, everyone knows those news sources & all the others are bastions of communism far left far left I love big brother.

Dan is attempting satire, I think. About as successfully as my attempt above.

For the avoidance of doubt:
He's suggesting the Observer & New Statesman are left & anti-Ed Miliband. Dan is in a knot. Everyone supporting the Labour leader & asking why these news media are making up stories where none exist are not.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:35 pm

Aside from the plotters (or lack of them) did we catch this?

Scrutiny of free school plans too weak, DfE commissioner admits

http://news.tes.co.uk/b/news/2014/11/07 ... ioner.aspx

Scrutiny of new free school plans has not been good enough in the past, the new head of the government’s free schools and academies programme has admitted.

Frank Green, who was appointed national schools commissioner at the Department for Education earlier this year, made the admission when asked why so many free schools were being set up in areas with large numbers of surplus places.

“A few years ago, in order to launch the programme, the scrutiny process was perhaps not as strong as it should have been,” Mr Green conceded at a Westminster Education Forum event.

Well, fancy that...and there was me thinking that the DfE and the New Schools network had it all worked out right from the start...

Actually it does tie up with something that Toady said a couple of years back that the process had been tightened up considerable since he was let open a school...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:35 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:You being here doesn't make me uncomfortable GS, it would be a loss if you walked IMO..

Ditto

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:40 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?
My honourable friend, AngryAsWell, wants smileys for Twitter. I don't like using smileys anywhere. That's fine. I don't have to use smileys. I fancy myself a writer. If I can't convey my meaning with words, I consider my attempt a failure. If I use the smileys, I'm less likely to improve my writing. If can use for example, I'll never refine the words I use to convey that twitchy fellow. I confess, I like the twitching smiley. I use him for illustration in this post only. A picture is worth a thousand words? Yes, true. I should probably love smileys more than I do. We'll see. Perhaps I'm afraid of having to learn the fine art of using smileys. I'll contemplate this alone.

The reason I like smiley's (esp on twitter) is you can use them to indicate sarcasm, joking, laughing and many other emotions that can be quite lost in the written word, sometimes leading to misunderstanding when a person misses the humour intended. This is important on twitter where you are restricted to 140 (or is it 120?) character's.
Apart from which, I am not a good writer, but that fact should not stand in the way of my attempts, and if smiley's help me express myself better - well so be it, I'll use them.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:42 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:That is why I'm (personally) very much against the sorts of spat that has - apparently - seen Temulkar stop posting here. I very much regret that. FTN is, or should be, a far wider church than being an adherent of the Labour party. All shades of left are welcome, and any reasonable (ie, not bonkers) right wing poster is welcome here too. There is much to discuss and and all intelligent input is welcome. Remember, if you disagree with a post, it makes you examine your view to be able to reply.
There is a corollary to that, which is what I was trying to discuss with Temulkar (but sadly things got out of hand); inevitably, because this is a left leaning forum, a fair number of the people posting here will be "adherent(s) of the Labour Party" - that has been shown clearly this weekend. Now, the Labour Party is a broad church - it can accommodate MPs as diverse as the much discussed Mr Danczuk and the admirable Mr Skinner - and this board is an even broader one, with posters who support a number of parties/viewpoints; to that extent I am in full agreement with you, I think that provides the platform for lively and healthy debate ..... in theory at least.

My beef with Tem was that he appeared to use the "you are being partisan" card too quickly and too often; it got to a point where I felt the only people who weren't allowed an opinion was us 'adherents' (I don't think I was alone in feeling that either) so I called him out on it. And, yet again, I will apologise for how heated it got, but I felt strongly about what was happening.

Now if people are still feeling uncomfortable about that episode, if my being here is preventing others from posting, if the feeling is that I am creating an overly partisan atmosphere then I will apologise once again and re-examine my position. Over to you folks.

What the others have already said, TGS. And, FWIW, why is being partisan necessarily a bad thing? Some of us are probably more 'pragmatist' Labour supporters at the present time (i.e. still recovering from, and needing reassurance of no repeats of, some of the abominations of the Blair and Brown years ... and supporting Labour now because more Tory/Lib Dem rule will destroy things beyond redemption and we hope Labour, under Ed's leadership, will do good things) but it doesn't make me, at least, value those with more partisan views (and I'd count Tem amongst those) any less.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:43 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:That is why I'm (personally) very much against the sorts of spat that has - apparently - seen Temulkar stop posting here. I very much regret that. FTN is, or should be, a far wider church than being an adherent of the Labour party. All shades of left are welcome, and any reasonable (ie, not bonkers) right wing poster is welcome here too. There is much to discuss and and all intelligent input is welcome. Remember, if you disagree with a post, it makes you examine your view to be able to reply.
There is a corollary to that, which is what I was trying to discuss with Temulkar (but sadly things got out of hand); inevitably, because this is a left leaning forum, a fair number of the people posting here will be "adherent(s) of the Labour Party" - that has been shown clearly this weekend. Now, the Labour Party is a broad church - it can accommodate MPs as diverse as the much discussed Mr Danczuk and the admirable Mr Skinner - and this board is an even broader one, with posters who support a number of parties/viewpoints; to that extent I am in full agreement with you, I think that provides the platform for lively and healthy debate ..... in theory at least.

My beef with Tem was that he appeared to use the "you are being partisan" card too quickly and too often; it got to a point where I felt the only people who weren't allowed an opinion was us 'adherents' (I don't think I was alone in feeling that either) so I called him out on it. And, yet again, I will apologise for how heated it got, but I felt strongly about what was happening.

Now if people are still feeling uncomfortable about that episode, if my being here is preventing others from posting, if the feeling is that I am creating an overly partisan atmosphere then I will apologise once again and re-examine my position. Over to you folks.

The spats with Temulkar only served to enliven the site and didn't discomfit me at all. It's only a shame that he has such an apparently short fuse at times and I hope he'll be back. Your leaving wouldn't be of any help whatsoever - quite the opposite.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:47 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Aside from the plotters (or lack of them) did we catch this?

Scrutiny of free school plans too weak, DfE commissioner admits

http://news.tes.co.uk/b/news/2014/11/07 ... ioner.aspx

Scrutiny of new free school plans has not been good enough in the past, the new head of the government’s free schools and academies programme has admitted.

Frank Green, who was appointed national schools commissioner at the Department for Education earlier this year, made the admission when asked why so many free schools were being set up in areas with large numbers of surplus places.

“A few years ago, in order to launch the programme, the scrutiny process was perhaps not as strong as it should have been,” Mr Green conceded at a Westminster Education Forum event.

Well, fancy that...and there was me thinking that the DfE and the New Schools network had it all worked out right from the start...

Actually it does tie up with something that Toady said a couple of years back that the process had been tightened up considerable since he was let open a school...

Compare that with the lack of process for community grants in Tower Hamlets. Lack of process for opening schools.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 6:54 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote: Compare that with the lack of process for community grants in Tower Hamlets. Lack of process for opening schools.

Yes.

Did you see Wilshaw's letter to the Edu Select Committee? Short and to the point...

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/comm ... to-ESC.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am very clear that I have the powers to inspect the constituent academies of a multi-academy trust (MAT). I do not have the powers to inspect and report on the overall effectiveness of the MAT. The Secretary of State for Education has confirmed that she does not intend to introduce legislation to enable this type of inspection and I respect her decision.

I like that last line...he may respect her decision as in "accept it" but not respect as in "think it's right".

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:05 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:That is why I'm (personally) very much against the sorts of spat that has - apparently - seen Temulkar stop posting here. I very much regret that. FTN is, or should be, a far wider church than being an adherent of the Labour party. All shades of left are welcome, and any reasonable (ie, not bonkers) right wing poster is welcome here too. There is much to discuss and and all intelligent input is welcome. Remember, if you disagree with a post, it makes you examine your view to be able to reply.
There is a corollary to that, which is what I was trying to discuss with Temulkar (but sadly things got out of hand); inevitably, because this is a left leaning forum, a fair number of the people posting here will be "adherent(s) of the Labour Party" - that has been shown clearly this weekend. Now, the Labour Party is a broad church - it can accommodate MPs as diverse as the much discussed Mr Danczuk and the admirable Mr Skinner - and this board is an even broader one, with posters who support a number of parties/viewpoints; to that extent I am in full agreement with you, I think that provides the platform for lively and healthy debate ..... in theory at least.

My beef with Tem was that he appeared to use the "you are being partisan" card too quickly and too often; it got to a point where I felt the only people who weren't allowed an opinion was us 'adherents' (I don't think I was alone in feeling that either) so I called him out on it. And, yet again, I will apologise for how heated it got, but I felt strongly about what was happening.

Now if people are still feeling uncomfortable about that episode, if my being here is preventing others from posting, if the feeling is that I am creating an overly partisan atmosphere then I will apologise once again and re-examine my position. Over to you folks.
No please stay!

Agreed. I hope Tem comes back. How else will I learn from Tem? Good environmental contributions. It's easy to get thoroughly discouraged with fossil fuel based economies & the paradigm shift necessary to make renewable energy work for the needs of the people & life living, depending upon our biosphere.

I love cooperation. It's the only way to survive & thrive as human beings. It's unfair to ask any human being or group of human beings to be perfect, to be pure in every word & deed. I look forward to Labour & Greens acting together - it's in everyone's best interests for good policies to come together to hash it all out. I'm a Labour party member & supporter. I like some Green policies. Good people in the Green party.

A very few people like to create discord as cover for their despicable actions & support use the Must Be Perfect Principle & use any discrepancy, real or imagined, in fine & fallible people & groups as a method for distraction.

Worse, those despicable few influence others not despicable but impressionable (we all are impressionable, it's part of being human). Look what happens when good, decent, honest people have the audacity to speak out & act against current government, for example.

Powerful, influential & despicable people may be few but their reach is long. I don't care about them or their things but they take too much, talk too loud & tell lies to mess other people up.

For the avoidance of doubt - in case I didn't write as well as I could wish - I don't think Tem's despicable at all.

Tem called coal bed methane extraction the idea of an insane person(s). I agree. There are protests about fracking & other insane fossil fuel extraction projects all over this country & world.

I posted a map of UK coal bed methane operations taking place in Stoke under my feet. Please see the latest website link to the map below. It's the entire UK. It's from the government website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_Lics.pdf

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:06 pm

I once banned the use of "punctuation smileys" at work, because people would write e-mails that went something along the lines of:

"why are you such a worthless, inadequate and hopeless individual that you did not turn around that document I sent four weeks late within the 10 minutes that was then left to us before it needed the approval of all 20 members of the board you useless toerag piece of **** : )"

As if the : ) somehow made the rest of it sound cheerful and even respectful. (I paraphrase in may example, and to some extent, "make up" but you get my drift.)

When I first saw the emoticons here I was a bit freaked out, because not only were they smilies but they were unfamiliar ones (!) However, over time I have grown to love - and over-utilise several. Especially:

And would like more opportunity to use:

and

but appear not to have the right demeanour to require them very often.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:12 pm

Evening everyone. I'd just like to thank everyone who took the time to welcome me to twitter yesterday. I've uploaded the same pic to both this site and my twitter page so everyone who found me can be sure it's me as I used my real name for twitter (didn't feel right following Stephen King with a pseudonym somehow, don't know why).

Anyhow, I haven't been able to look at the papers much today. Too many stupid rumours being written up multiple times as "news" (yawn) so I really appreciate this site as you all find such great links and so save me doing the leg work searching the net myself. So thanks again and keep up the good work!

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:18 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
danczuk cameron.jpg
Labour backbencher Simon Danczuk told BBC One's Sunday Politics Mr Miliband would lead the party into the election, but added: "The numbers show us he's not popular. That's the reality."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29967737" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ality.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know we're not supposed to say mean stuff about what people look like but Danczuk looks a lot like a Tory
Danczuk spoke at our AGM in February - I was surprised he'd been invited, as I was aware of his being on the right of the party (just didn't realise how far right) - and he made a reasonable fist of it, but I could hardly say he impressed me. Like many MPs, he won a selection (though fuck knows what it says about Rochdale Labour party, who I hope feel ashamed of his witless utterances) and is now a bit of a loose cannon. He's very much one of those who, if I run across him again, will feel the back of me 'and (metaphorically speaking). I'll ask him how trying to stab or do down his own party leader is meant to be helpful, and why the fuck should any Labour supporter in Rochdale bother to vote for a fuckwit like him?

Could they deselect him, Ernst? For bringing the party into disrepute - or such like? Trouble is - that would probably be painted as trying to suppress criticism of the Labour local authority and peeps for any role played in the child abuse cases.

CLPs can act as they wish, but are subject to Region (although this appears to be weakening under Miliband). I'd have shot of him ASAP, but the shambles (I'm told by those in the know) that is Rochdale Labour party are their own masters. If they wish to have an idiot as an MP and candidate in 2015, that's their lookout. It would be very interesting should they wish to deselect. It would be a test of the openness of Labour and how local dissent is treated. In the past, Region has been horribly manipulative, and my sources tell me that the NEC is not above being manipulated by interested parties...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:19 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:An APOLOGY to Rt Hon George Osborne MP from Tom Pride

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2012/12/0 ... tom-pride/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tom Pride sets the records straight. Chancellor Jeffrey probably wishes he hadn't put himself through the trouble.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:27 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:An APOLOGY to Rt Hon George Osborne MP from Tom Pride

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2012/12/0 ... tom-pride/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tom Pride sets the records straight. Chancellor Jeffrey probably wishes he hadn't put himself through the trouble.

Vaginas rock! (Sorry)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:28 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Totally off topic but can anyone tell me how to get smiley's in twitter?
My honourable friend, AngryAsWell, wants smileys for Twitter. I don't like using smileys anywhere. That's fine. I don't have to use smileys. I fancy myself a writer. If I can't convey my meaning with words, I consider my attempt a failure. If I use the smileys, I'm less likely to improve my writing. If can use for example, I'll never refine the words I use to convey that twitchy fellow. I confess, I like the twitching smiley. I use him for illustration in this post only. A picture is worth a thousand words? Yes, true. I should probably love smileys more than I do. We'll see. Perhaps I'm afraid of having to learn the fine art of using smileys. I'll contemplate this alone.
The reason I like smiley's (esp on twitter) is you can use them to indicate sarcasm, joking, laughing and many other emotions that can be quite lost in the written word, sometimes leading to misunderstanding when a person misses the humour intended. This is important on twitter where you are restricted to 140 (or is it 120?) character's.
Apart from which, I am not a good writer, but that fact should not stand in the way of my attempts, and if smiley's help me express myself better - well so be it, I'll use them.

Use all the smileys you want. Smileys aren't worth losing friends over & that's why smiley use is probably best. None of us can write fabulous all the time. Smileys round out the narrative. Still don't like them.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:28 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Incredible stuff here re Sir Peter Hayman, the paedophile diplomat.

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5401/ ... phile-ring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can't copy the text, but the bit that leaps out to me is the response to a question from Tory MP, Robin Maxwell-Hyslop

M-H says Hayman sent obscene material through the post, that is an offence. Why isnt he being prosecuted?

Havers says people who commit offences aren't always prosecuted! Anyway, some people who were prosecuted got a conditional discharge.

I find the Sir Peter Fahey principle (as traduced by Simon Danczuk) rather persuasive- you have serious crime and you don't think you can make it stick? Throw the book. Get them on anything. And come back at them later when you've more.
Al Capone was sent up to prison as a convicted tax dodger in the US.
Yes, indeed.

None of this of course means Hayman was pimping out young kids to the Cabinet- he had enough friends who'd want to help him anyway- but I'm starting to see a conspiracy more than I have before.

On a similar subject, somebody mentioned 'the magic circle' a few days ago. It looks as if it might be about to resurface:

A PLAN to hold public inquiry into historical child abuse in Scotland is being prepared by the Scottish Government, Scotland on Sunday has learned.
Ministers are looking at establishing a high-profile investigation into allegations of abuse carried out in care homes, educational institutions, by religious orders and by high-profile members of the Scottish establishment...

...The inquiry is also expected to examine allegations involving the late Conservative MP Nicholas Fairbairn and a prominent member of the legal establishment, Robert Henderson QC.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3599024

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:28 pm

(in response to RR above)

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:30 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:An APOLOGY to Rt Hon George Osborne MP from Tom Pride

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2012/12/0 ... tom-pride/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tom Pride sets the records straight. Chancellor Jeffrey probably wishes he hadn't put himself through the trouble.
Vaginas rock! (Sorry)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:31 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote: (in response to RR above)

No - you're not really are you - not from me?!