Monday 10th November 2014

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 7:55 pm

Martin Horwood, a Lib Dem MP, says he voted with Labour earlier against the business motion.

But Yvette Cooper has got a bit carried away. There is no reason for not voting on the 11 measures MPs all agree on, he says.

Cooper intervenes. She says Labour is using this procedure because it wants a vote on all 35 measures tomorrow.

Horwood says Labour could use its opposition day debate to have a vote on the EAW.

Yeah, the Opposition should use its time to vote on stuff because Cameron didn't live up to his promise all of 5 days ago.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 7:56 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 52453.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

inde wrote:Miliband's problem isn't that he's out of touch, but that he's too neurotically in touch
Instead of fretting about the polls and focus groups, he needs to bind together a team with a shared sense of purpose

Or perhaps it is simply that the British press are, collectively, now nothing more than a load of old shite?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 7:57 pm

TOP LIB DEM ‘BANNED FROM CITY’ OVER £220M ROGUE TRADER SCANDAL

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/11/m ... r-scandal/

Here's one for YahYah.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 7:59 pm

NOW David Davis is accusing Labour of acting undemocrataically and denying mps a vote on eaw!Am gobsmacked,also typing one fingered as pup has found her sqeaky bone and we're playing tug of war.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:00 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Night PF

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Pathetic chasing of Ed with "Shoulda chosen David" stuff by Michael Crick.

Look fwd to Cameron being chased with "Your party wish theyd chosen David Davis".

And can't recall Hagues, IDS and Howard being chased with "shoulda chosen Ken Clarke!"
On tonight's showing Ken Clarke could have been a finer option. Admirable loyalty from him there, considering his recent treatment by the Party in general and May/Grayling in particular. Never less than entertaining though.

At least Ken knows how parliament works which can't be said for the tossers in charge.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:00 pm

John Baron and David Davis kicking the government's arse.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:01 pm

Oh here comes utter bellend John Hemming.

Trying to make it look like the Opposition's fault.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:05 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I love Wales, WelshIan, as I've written earlier on the thread.
You may not actually be in Wales but it's part of your name & that's enough of an excuse for me to tell the thread I love Wales for the second time today.
I live in Stoke & love Wales.

Welcome.
Hello Welshian - and welcome.

Lots of people here from Wales, and lots of people who are very pleased to see you here.

JA - I like Wales. I live in it. It's just lovely here on the border in Hay-On-Wye.

Come and visit and I'll take you to the Wye where you can see the kingfishers flash by in a turquoise and scarlet streak, or I could introduce you to the heron I have words with on occasion.....or even, if we are very lucky, we can watch the otters at play.

Bookshops, lovely people, lovelier pubs, and the best sheeps-milk ice cream ever at Shepherds (who also do a mean Illy espresso)

Come on - you know you want to.......
I look forward to it, you wonderful friend.

You've written to me some time ago about your beautiful home - I've visited some years ago but I didn't know you then. Your community is one of the most beautiful places in the world - I wished I could have stayed.

I love you dearly.

xx
JA

So let's arrange it - PM me and we can talk.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:07 pm

The Question is that The Question Be Not Put. Division.

(If this is successful, the matters will not be further debated today but The House is free to debate in full tomorrow if they wish.)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:07 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:The Question is that The Question Be Not Put. Division.

(If this is successful, the matters will not be further debated today but The House is free to debate in full tomorrow if they wish.)

Cutting the cost of politics!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:10 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Pathetic chasing of Ed with "Shoulda chosen David" stuff by Michael Crick.

Look fwd to Cameron being chased with "Your party wish theyd chosen David Davis".

And can't recall Hagues, IDS and Howard being chased with "shoulda chosen Ken Clarke!"

It did choose David Davis

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:12 pm

That was where the leaving the EPP group came from- hoovered up the Foxy supporters.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:14 pm

Paul, nicked that for Twitter, thanks.

"Oi, Dave! You only beat David Davis because of silly voting system, didn't you?"

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:17 pm

I am enjoying this evening enormously.

The sheer arrogance of this shower in government is a wonder to see.

They seem to have forgotten that Parliament exists not for them to instruct MPs on what they will vote for and what they must do, but for the MPs to discuss and debate the issues put before them under the constraints of Parliamentary procedure - which exists precisely to prevent rogue governments acting like tinpot dictators.

I am very pleased that even rampant right-wingers are very angry at this abuse of process - I've watched quite a few commons debates in my time and I can't recall one in which so many MPs from different parties have raised points of order with the Speaker.

May is getting her knuckles rapped, Gove is floundering like a gasping goldfish, and with any luck OGRFG is panicking like the coward he is.
Fantastic!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:17 pm

David Cameron has returned from the Mansion House to vote in white tie, Nick Robinson reports.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:18 pm

Cameron has to cut short his Mansion House meal, damn shame that, he's in need of a good feed.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:18 pm

John Prescott ‏@johnprescott 5m5 minutes ago
So a Prime Minister who promises a referendum on Europe can't even deliver a Commons vote. Weak, weak, weak #MajorMinor #EAW

Ah Yesss, and thank you John.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:18 pm

This tweet from Nick Robinson has made my day;

'PM races back from Mansion House dinner to vote dressed in white tie'.

whoops,snap.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:19 pm

The government has won. Labour’s motion has been defeated by 272 votes to 229 - a majority of 43.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:19 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Cameron has to cut short his Mansion House meal, damn shame that, he's in need of a good feed.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:21 pm

No PMQs on Weds. Pity!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:22 pm

Cameron had to come back from Mansion House dinner in white tie.

Bet he didn't look at all red faced and out of breath.

Would love it if picture taken of him on MP's camera phone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:23 pm

refitman wrote:The government has won. Labour’s motion has been defeated by 272 votes to 229 - a majority of 43.

Government don't know what to do with that result, do they.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:24 pm

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman · 2m2 minutes ago
Yvette really has turned up to work today. Canny tactics and angry speeches.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:26 pm

“@bbcnickrobinson: PM has races back from Mansion House dinner to vote dressed in White tie” < Like this?
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:lol!:

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:27 pm

Diane Rayburn retweeted
Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 7m7 minutes ago
Cooper now demanding vote on the remaining 24 measures not in the motion.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:29 pm

refitman wrote:The government has won. Labour’s motion has been defeated by 272 votes to 229 - a majority of 43.

The Government lost four hours ago. May's performance this evening has been woeful, she has squeaked that vote through panicked whipping; the fact that Dave and others have had to rush back from the Mansion House beanfeast to pull her backside out of the fire will have done her no favours at all.

More popcorn anyone?

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:30 pm

Thanks for the words of welcome, everyone. I used to lurk on Andrew Sparrow's blog but find that Beta has driven me away as well as most of my favourite posters and so I will generally lurk here instead! I have added a bit about me in the Greetings section.

I will try to add to the debate but I usually find that others say what I think rather more eloquently than I do.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:31 pm

Think David Davis abstained in a very stylish "voting in this farcical situation is a waste of my time" way.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:31 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:“@bbcnickrobinson: PM has races back from Mansion House dinner to vote dressed in White tie” < Like this?
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Presumably very similar, but older fatter and with a bald spot.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:31 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:“@bbcnickrobinson: PM has races back from Mansion House dinner to vote dressed in White tie” < Like this?
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Dave's aged since then. A lot. No wisdom evident thus far.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:33 pm

JP Janson De Couet retweeted
Tim Fenton ‏@zelo_street 2m2 minutes ago
Yep, #Panorama has pulled the Fake Sheikh prog - and no explanation from the Beeb. Shameful cave-in

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:34 pm

Wintour reckons this is slamming the door shut, I reckon he never opened it in the first place.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:34 pm

WelshIan wrote:Thanks for the words of welcome, everyone. I used to lurk on Andrew Sparrow's blog but find that Beta has driven me away as well as most of my favourite posters and so I will generally lurk here instead! I have added a bit about me in the Greetings section.

I will try to add to the debate but I usually find that others say what I think rather more eloquently than I do.

Lack of eloquence never stopped me!

And I suspect you do yourself a disservice anyway.

Welcome to the asylum; were you told that newbies were supposed to bring cake?

Post by **refitman** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:35 pm

Ayes 464
Noes 38

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:39 pm

Mike Smithson retweeted
Douglas Carswell MP ‏@DouglasCarswell 21m21 minutes ago
PM promised vote on EAW in PMQs. Tonight he rushes back in white tie to quash it

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:39 pm

WelshIan wrote:Thanks for the words of welcome, everyone. I used to lurk on Andrew Sparrow's blog but find that Beta has driven me away as well as most of my favourite posters and so I will generally lurk here instead! I have added a bit about me in the Greetings section.

I will try to add to the debate but I usually find that others say what I think rather more eloquently than I do.

Hi Welsh Ian missed saying hi earlier so - Hi!

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:49 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
WelshIan wrote:Thanks for the words of welcome, everyone. I used to lurk on Andrew Sparrow's blog but find that Beta has driven me away as well as most of my favourite posters and so I will generally lurk here instead! I have added a bit about me in the Greetings section.

I will try to add to the debate but I usually find that others say what I think rather more eloquently than I do.
Lack of eloquence never stopped me! And I suspect you do yourself a disservice anyway.

Welcome to the asylum; were you told that newbies were supposed to bring cake?

Numbers are more my thing than words...

I think I may have some mince pies, if that's ok? People complain about Christmas coming earlier and earlier but it's never too early for mince pies!

Post by **refitman** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:49 pm

Anatoly posted his round-up on Andrew's blog:

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Belated local council byelection round-up - just two last week:

Cornwall - Tory gain from Labour with a swing of over 9%, however this does not really tell the full story as this has traditionally been a Tory/LibDem swing area and Labour literally came from nowhere to win last year (they polled just 4% in the similar pre-boundary change division in 2009, when the LibDems just beat the Tories; both scored over 40% then, in contrast to the more fragmented contests since) This meant UKIP stayed second as last year - in the circumstances they may be disappointed to have seen a small drop in their vote - whilst Labour dropped to third but just beat the LibDems who recovered a little ground after collapsing last year. Greens last with under 5%, almost unchanged on 2013 but halved on 2009 when they came third.

Rugby DC - Tory hold of a normally safe ward, keeping their small majority on the council. They dropped on earlier this year due to a UKIP candidate standing and getting over 20% after sitting May's contest out - though there was little change compared to a 2013 by-election when UKIP also got second. LibDems will be pleased to roughly double their vote and come third, beating Labour who declined by a similar amount (Labour were well down on their 2nd place finishes in both 2014 and 2012, but only slightly compared to the previous byelection) The also ran positions were taken firstly by an Independent who beat the Greens who declined from 10% earlier this year to just a quarter of that now, and in last place TUSC - who polled 5% here in 2014 and a notably strong 10% in 2012 (all the more so given the middle class nature of this ward) but just 10 votes - 0.6% - now.

Busier again this week, with seven contests.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:51 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Wintour reckons this is slamming the door shut, I reckon he never opened it in the first place.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He told me off on Twitter.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:52 pm

WelshIan wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
WelshIan wrote:Thanks for the words of welcome, everyone. I used to lurk on Andrew Sparrow's blog but find that Beta has driven me away as well as most of my favourite posters and so I will generally lurk here instead! I have added a bit about me in the Greetings section.

I will try to add to the debate but I usually find that others say what I think rather more eloquently than I do.
Lack of eloquence never stopped me! And I suspect you do yourself a disservice anyway.

Welcome to the asylum; were you told that newbies were supposed to bring cake?
Numbers are more my thing than words...

I think I may have some mince pies, if that's ok? People complain about Christmas coming earlier and earlier but it's never too early for mince pies!

A mince pie and an irish coffee will round off the night's festivities perfectly. Thank you *nomnomnom*

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:52 pm

Well - while David Cameron missed out on his pud and afters (bet he always has afters) - Mr Riots and I have right pigged out. I was cooking a curry tonight. With every ridiculous turn and twist and arse about tit posture from this government's dishonourable representatives my zeal for the cooking increased. We have had the largest, hottest, most varied in dishes, curry ever wot I have cooked. Fuelled by fury, disbelief, snorts and hysteria.

Thank you Teresa - for a slap up dinner with added comedy.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:55 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

Mike Smithson retweeted
Douglas Carswell MP ‏@DouglasCarswell 21m21 minutes ago
PM promised vote on EAW in PMQs. Tonight he rushes back in white tie to quash it

Doesn't sound like he's regretting defecting, does it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 8:55 pm

Ah to be fair, to Wintour he sent me a friendly tweet next.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 9:02 pm

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 40m 40 minutes ago
Yvette really has turned up to work today. Canny tactics and angry speeches.

Well good - she needed to.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 9:07 pm

Dan Hodges ✔ @DPJHodges

So there wasn't a major revolt against the EAW. Which shows Tories were on top of the rebellion. Which proves it was all a cock-up.

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It's about keeping one's word, telling the truth & following through like a grown-up. That's what this is about, Dan.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 9:07 pm

AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow · 13m13 minutes ago
Labour and Tories blame each other for EAW debate being shelved - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... f821aaef4c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … - Ukip probably gain most

Nice to see Andrew still spinning merrily, can't admit for a moment that tonight was a massive blow for his precious Coalition.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 9:15 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Dan Hodges ✔ @DPJHodges

So there wasn't a major revolt against the EAW. Which shows Tories were on top of the rebellion. Which proves it was all a cock-up.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's about keeping one's word, telling the truth & following through like a grown-up. That's what this is about, Dan.

I've looked at Dan's timeline a few times tonight, out and out defence of the Tory position all night; proof, if any further were needed, that he has crossed totally to the Dark Side (despite his claims over the weekend that he would still be voting Labour).

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 9:15 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow · 13m13 minutes ago
Labour and Tories blame each other for EAW debate being shelved - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... f821aaef4c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … - Ukip probably gain most
Nice to see Andrew still spinning merrily, can't admit for a moment that tonight was a massive blow for his precious Coalition.

imo Andrew Sparrow is one of the worst of the lot at the guardian.Constant and bitchy little digs at Labour,no matter what they do or how well they do it.
At least Wintour and Watts are blatant about it instead of being sly and spiteful.

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 9:20 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Dan Hodges ✔ @DPJHodges

So there wasn't a major revolt against the EAW. Which shows Tories were on top of the rebellion. Which proves it was all a cock-up.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's about keeping one's word, telling the truth & following through like a grown-up. That's what this is about, Dan.

Yes, quite. And they were obviously not on top of the 'rebellion' as Dave had to be hurried back from the Mansion House dinner and they had to round up the rest of the troops as well.

I agree it was a cock up though, it is this Tory government we're talking about after all.