Monday 10th November 2014

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:23 pm

WelshIan wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:
Out of interest, on the same subject, I've been contacted again by the above mentioned office, requesting I detail exactly which bits of the 22 (I think it was 22 pieces in 9 days IIRC) anti-Welsh NHS pieces in the Daily Heil are untrue and that I'm actually complaining about (obviously a general 'you shouldn't let a paper lie continually like that' isn't good enough) - does anyone know if there's a resource (Welsh Government/health activist blog/someone here) that would give me the info? Im going to try to find examples, but I'll only really have what the Heil has printed, but no facts or evidence by way of rebuttal/example.

This is the Welsh Government's response to the Mail, refuting a number of it's lies:

http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/healthands ... l/?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi WelshIan & welcome. We're a friendly bunch so pull up a chair & join in

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:24 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
pk1 wrote:http://labourlist.org/2014/11/labour-pp ... eadership/

Over 100 Labour PPCs have signed a letter today calling on “an anonymous few” to stop orchestrating a “campaign of briefing to destabilise Ed and his leadership”. The letter (published in full below) has been signed by candidates from across the political spectrum of the party, and includes many candidates from the party’s key marginal and target seats.
And guess what? The Progress supporting PPC of Bury North is not a signatory...

Interesting - quite a few Progressites *have* signed it, however. It is a very impressive display at short notice, both in numbers and across the party spectrum.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:25 pm

Nick Cohen ‏@NickCohen4 7m7 minutes ago
If only the Times still had Michael Gove's satiric pen to ridicule the shambles in the Commons tonight

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:28 pm

Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 1m1 minute ago
Rochester & Strood is in 10 days. Pouring gasoline on the Eurosceptic bonfire is an interesting strategy #eaw

Is anyone opening a book on how many defections there will be to ukip on the basis of this farce ?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:28 pm

Theresa May now, um, explaining why there was no reason why the EAW had to be voted on by The House. I think. I have never seen anyone on a Govt. Front Bench look and sound so angrily upset and close to tears, ever.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:29 pm

Hiya @WelshIan. Glad to see you.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:30 pm

pk1 wrote:
Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ 1m1 minute ago
Rochester & Strood is in 10 days. Pouring gasoline on the Eurosceptic bonfire is an interesting strategy #eaw

Is anyone opening a book on how many defections there will be to ukip on the basis of this farce ?

Hope she's keeping a check on her blood sugar levels. This furore won't be doing it any favours.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:31 pm

pk1 wrote:
WelshIan wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:
Out of interest, on the same subject, I've been contacted again by the above mentioned office, requesting I detail exactly which bits of the 22 (I think it was 22 pieces in 9 days IIRC) anti-Welsh NHS pieces in the Daily Heil are untrue and that I'm actually complaining about (obviously a general 'you shouldn't let a paper lie continually like that' isn't good enough) - does anyone know if there's a resource (Welsh Government/health activist blog/someone here) that would give me the info? Im going to try to find examples, but I'll only really have what the Heil has printed, but no facts or evidence by way of rebuttal/example.

This is the Welsh Government's response to the Mail, refuting a number of it's lies:

http://wales.gov.uk/newsroom/healthands ... l/?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hi WelshIan & welcome. We're a friendly bunch so pull up a chair & join in

Welcome to Welshian from me, too – and thanks for the link

Post by **refitman** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:31 pm

Howdy WelshIan, pleasure to meet you.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:32 pm

The House has divided on the question of the Business Motion for this debate. What the ? happens if it is defeated?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:33 pm

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 15m 15 minutes ago
Whips now racing to get ministers in, I hear. They could lose the business motion.

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 19m 19 minutes ago
The government cannot respond until MPs stop giving points of order. But MPs are now giving more points of order.

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 21m 21 minutes ago
Furious speech from Richard shepherd who ends by suggesting house should talk the motion out "until the end of time"

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 22m 22 minutes ago
Now greg hands is talking to Gove. I can't believe the government will pursue this motion.

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 28m 28 minutes ago
Gove is back talking to May and Grayling. And now to Don Foster.

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 30m 30 minutes ago
Gove and May appear to have agreed something. He gets up and walks towards speaker's chair

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 31m 31 minutes ago
Not one person in the whole of the house has supported what the government is doing.

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 32m 32 minutes ago
Theresa May and Michael Gove are now in frantic conversation on front bench

Well - if I hadn't already been told by FTNers that Dave & co were in meltdown (shall I call it 'crisis'?) mode in the HoC - this string of tweets would have let me know!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:33 pm

Sir Richard Shepherd, a Conservative, says the government is treating the Commons with contempt. MPs should talk out the timetable motion until the government returns with a proper timetable motion, he says.

He's very rightwing, but principled, and led the way on freedom of information for years and years.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:35 pm

Oooh. Just living up to my name because I'm suddenly wondering if May has been accidentally on purpose manoeuvred onto this shambles to muck up her leadership chances?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:37 pm

Isabel Hardman retweeted
The Spectator @spectator · 4m 4 minutes ago
Live: European arrest warrant debate in a shambles, reports @IsabelHardman http://specc.ie/1xdwn0v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In case you'd like an alternative report to Andrew Sparrow and the G.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:39 pm

I love Wales, WelshIan, as I've written earlier on the thread.
You may not actually be in Wales but it's part of your name & that's enough of an excuse for me to tell the thread I love Wales for the second time today.
I live in Stoke & love Wales.

Welcome.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:39 pm

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 4m4 minutes ago
So Bercow says the vote is not a vote on the European Arrest Warrant. May says the Govt will treat it as if it is. #haveigotthisright

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:40 pm

Ferguson reckons there's a meltdown on the Conservative benches.. 'Scuse me while I PMSL.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:40 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Oooh. Just living up to my name because I'm suddenly wondering if May has been accidentally on purpose manoeuvred onto this shambles to muck up her leadership chances?

Doesn't play badly just for her though, Ohso. But Cameron is so non strategic you might actually be right ... as someone said earlier in a tweet - sometimes these things come back and bite you on the arse.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:40 pm

Wow.

All because they didn't want Miliband to say "you needed our help". Which is what the public think political parties should do anyway!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:43 pm

Diane Abbott MP ‏@HackneyAbbott 3m3 minutes ago
Complete procedural mess over European Arrest Warrant. Gove, in his new role as Chief Whip, trying to be too clever by half #omnishambles

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:44 pm

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 1m 1 minute ago
time for #webacktheresa?

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:44 pm

Ive just got in and it appears I've been missing some fun. Can anyone give me a quick recap of what's happening?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:44 pm

To summarise in as few letters as i can manage;
EdMROFLHAO

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:47 pm

This hideous mess is a complete embarrassment. Since the Tories want to crank the political clock back a couple of centuries, can't the Queen just step in and dissolve Parliament now?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:48 pm

@Welshlan

Hello!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:50 pm

Is it just me - or is she talking gobbledygook?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:52 pm

Iain Duncan Smith MP ‏@IDS_MP 3m3 minutes ago
I have no idea what's going on with this European Arrest Warrant vote. But I'm getting overtime for being here. Winning.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:53 pm

mbc1955 wrote:This hideous mess is a complete embarrassment. Since the Tories want to crank the political clock back a couple of centuries, can't the Queen just step in and dissolve Parliament now?

Don't give them ideas. I used to think of that kind of thing & laugh at it's light reverie. E2 is fabulous. The rest of the aristocracy are dictatorial; some of them make up current government.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:54 pm

Spacedone wrote:Ive just got in and it appears I've been missing some fun. Can anyone give me a quick recap of what's happening?

Gove, Grayling and May...Says it all.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:54 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Iain Duncan Smith MP ‏@IDS_MP 3m3 minutes ago
I have no idea what's going on with this European Arrest Warrant vote. But I'm getting overtime for being here. Winning.

Oh you're not joking are you

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:56 pm

I bet Ed has the widest grin when no-one's looking. He has to be saying 'Karma'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:57 pm

Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 2m 2 minutes ago
12 days ago Cameron promised a vote on EAW. May promised a vote *YESTERDAY* - now government aren’t allowing a vote! http://labli.st/1Ev7MFs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 8m 8 minutes ago
Theresa May can’t bring herself to say - plainly and clearly - this is NOT a vote on the EAW. Why can’t she just be clear and honest??

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:57 pm

Spacedone wrote:Ive just got in and it appears I've been missing some fun. Can anyone give me a quick recap of what's happening?

MPs were expecting to vote on the European Arrest Warrant only to disciover today that the EAW is excluded from tonight's vote.

Fury & mayhem have ensued with everybody in uproar whilst Theresa May sat gurning on the front bench refusing to set the record straight.

A vote on the business motion was held that would have determined whether the debate took place - the govt 'won' that vote by 9.

There is much anger because the Cons tried pulling the wool over MPs eyes, including their own side.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:59 pm

Tory MP accuses May of making up Parliamentary procedure as she goes along. May replies that it's all Labour's fault.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:00 pm

I'm looking over the G feeds on Sparrow's thread & May is talking madness - trying to get away with a blank vote to be filled in with the policy later.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:01 pm

Spacedone wrote:Tory MP accuses May of making up Parliamentary procedure as she goes along. May replies that it's all Labour's fault.

That Yvette Cooper sent me a letter & she wanted answers.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:02 pm

citizenJA wrote:I'm looking over the G feeds on Sparrow's thread & May is talking madness - trying to get away with a blank vote to be filled in with the policy later.

It wouldn't be the first time.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:03 pm

Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 16s 17 seconds ago
I haven’t seen a Commons performance this bad since Jeremy Hunt was at DCMS…

Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 34s 35 seconds ago
The Tory Right are lining up to slam Theresa May’s duplicity here. Absolute shambles. But quite a sight to behold

Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 3m 3 minutes ago
12 days ago Cameron was cock-a-hoop when he said there’d be an EAW vote. Now it’s all falling apart. Silly PM… http://labli.st/1Ev7MFs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:04 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 2m 2 minutes ago
12 days ago Cameron promised a vote on EAW. May promised a vote *YESTERDAY* - now government aren’t allowing a vote! http://labli.st/1Ev7MFs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 8m 8 minutes ago
Theresa May can’t bring herself to say - plainly and clearly - this is NOT a vote on the EAW. Why can’t she just be clear and honest??

Just do as you're told & no one gets hurt.

They're Tories.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:07 pm

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:07 pm

Welcome WelshIan !

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:08 pm

A vote against .... flim flam, flabber, flabber, flabbermastic .... the package .... blllllll, flabber, flabber, bllllll ..... Lisbbbboooonnn

please let my tongue work properly again, please, flabber, flabber, flabbbbbberrrrr

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:08 pm

http://labourlist.org/2014/11/tories-in ... -promised/

diGriz · Post by **diGriz** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:09 pm

Early election while Labour is 'weakened' after the recent onslaught? Explains the concerted efforts in attacks.

This all feels staged and that Labour knew it was on the cards as they offered Opposition Day to discuss this law. (Which I found odd at the time).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:11 pm

ohsocynical wrote:http://labourlist.org/2014/11/tories-in ... -promised/

Everyone, I think this LabourList article sums up the situation quickly & clearly.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:11 pm

diGriz wrote:Early election while Labour is 'weakened' after the recent onslaught? Explains the concerted efforts in attacks.

This all feels staged and that Labour knew it was on the cards as they offered Opposition Day to discuss this law. (Which I found odd at the time).

Cripes. How early do you think?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:12 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Iain Duncan Smith MP ‏@IDS_MP 3m3 minutes ago
I have no idea what's going on with this European Arrest Warrant vote. But I'm getting overtime for being here. Winning.

Oh you're not joking are you

It's a sham account, but it does make me laugh and somehow never seems that far from what George Smith is really thinking.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:14 pm

Hey peeps - this package also includes the 'Swedish initiative'.

How can you not vote for this thing that isn't clear what you are voting for ... but includes a 'Swedish initiative' - that sounds juicy, yes?

It's a 'package' and it's linked to a 'Swedish initiative' - you must vote for it now.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:15 pm

JP Janson De Couet ‏@ostercywriter 2m2 minutes ago
@Tubby_Isaacs @Markfergusonuk #saveGove

Suggested Douglas Carswell might wish to call for a resignation on this...

Gove dispatched to backbenches would be good for UKIP.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 10 Nov, 2014 6:16 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell

I've been posting that letter since late last night, both here (last night) and on AS blog (twice today) trying to find out what is going on and if there will or will not be a vote. The reason I posted the above was to find out if any one on here had seen Rees-Mogg actually say there would be not be a vote.
I'm unable to get the Parliament live to work on my computer (Silverlight) for some reason & BBC Parliament Live would make me pay for a license if I dared watch the MPs live & I won't pay to watch the MPs.

So, I'm unable to tell you at the point what Rees-Mogg did or didn't say.

Any advice would be grand. It's getting dark outside.

Sorry I did not see this earlier. If you have an onscreen message saying that the video cannot play because Silverlight is not available, just scroll a little down the page and you should see a link that says: Try another player. I think, from memory, that will give you the option to use RealPlayer instead – or it might be MediaPlayer or WinPlayer. Click on that and the video should then work. I get that message all the time because I am using an old Mac iBook which cannot run the latest version of Flash or any version of Silverlight. Hope that helps!