Tuesday 6th July 2021

[refitman]

Morning all.

[RogerOThornhill]

Good morning.

I can't be the only person absolutely baffled as to how Trevor Phillips is a member of the party.

Labour lifts Trevor Phillips’ suspension for alleged Islamophobia

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... SApp_Other

The Guardian understands Phillips was reinstated at least three weeks ago, without the matter having gone to a National Executive Committee disciplinary panel. A Labour source told the Guardian the investigation into Phillips is ongoing and its procedures allow for this to happen even after a member’s suspension has been lifted.

I note that besides him, Khalid Mahmood has now joined Policy Exchange as a senior fellow.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/people/

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Mystifying how the Phillips suspension got lifted as well, given there was no NEC input.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Come on now Dr Costello, that seems a bit unfair. What did Aleister Crowley ever do to be quoted in comparison to Savid Javid?

[RogerOThornhill]

Quite.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Also, if anyone could explain to me what Chris Whitty was wittering on about yesterday when he said continuing social distancing and mask wearing would only delay hospitalisations and deaths which would happen regardless, I'd love to hear it. As, it would appear, would a great many scientists.

[RogerOThornhill]

Some people really are losing their minds.

[RogerOThornhill]

Oh dear...and it was going so well at the beginning. Remember all of the triumphalist tweets about beating BBC & Sky News?

Could it be that most viewers actually want factual, balanced news rather than the one-sided stuff that GB comes out with?

[Willow904]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57733276

Covid: Self-isolation to be scrapped for double-jabbed and children in England

I don't understand this. Am I missing something? If you are traced as a contact of a positive case you are currently being asked to isolate for 10 days in case you have caught covid in order to reduce the possibility of passing it on.

People who are double jabbed are (hopefully) protected from serious illness but can still catch and pass it on as far as we know. Unvaccinated children can definitely catch and pass it on.

So why should these groups be treated differently from other people who can catch and pass it on and are still being asked to isolate? What exactly does the government think isolation is for? Or has there been research that shows children and/or jabbed people can't catch covid/aren't contagious that I've completely missed?

Genuinely baffled

[AnatolyKasparov]

Also, if anyone could explain to me what Chris Whitty was wittering on about yesterday when he said continuing social distancing and mask wearing would only delay hospitalisations and deaths which would happen regardless, I'd love to hear it. As, it would appear, would a great many scientists.

I think the idea is that whenever we fully open up, some increase in cases (and, even if less markedly, serious illness and deaths) is inevitable.

[Willow904]

Also, if anyone could explain to me what Chris Whitty was wittering on about yesterday when he said continuing social distancing and mask wearing would only delay hospitalisations and deaths which would happen regardless, I'd love to hear it. As, it would appear, would a great many scientists.

I think the idea is that whenever we fully open up, some increase in cases (and, even if less markedly, serious illness and deaths) is inevitable.

This is why you need effective measures that can be implemented permanently - like better ventilation in schools and hospitals and funding for local public health teams to operate proper test, track and trace to keep low numbers low. Vaccines can protect against serious illness but can they stop people from catching Covid over and over and being ill enough to not be able to go to work. I guess we'll find out.

[gilsey]

Mark Cavendish.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I think the idea is that whenever we fully open up, some increase in cases (and, even if less markedly, serious illness and deaths) is inevitable.

That's true, but what nobody seems to be able to convincingly explain is why now? Whitty claimed delaying would only forestall the inevitable, but that's evidently bollocks. The more people are fully vaccinated the more protected the entire population is, to try to claim opening up fully now would make no difference to waiting x amount of time until x amount more people are vaccinated is arrant nonsense and yet that's what he claimed. A claim he made without a shred of evidence or an explanation of his reasoning. It sounded very much like he was providing cover for a government that wants to abrogate itself of any further responsibility and allow a novel virus to spread throughout the population unhindered.

The most charitable interpretation of his claim is that they think it's better to let the virus rip through the country now rather than in the Winter, but even that makes no sense at all. If they think the vaccines are effective enough to protect us now, with 50% of the population vaccinated, what makes the Winter any different? Unless they think vaccines don't work when it's cold. Why not delay until all adults (at least) are fully vaccinated? Surely then we'd be facing the Winter with a more robustly protected population?

From a public health perspective what he said yesterday was total bunkum that doesn't bear the slightest bit of scrutiny. He's bullshitting on behalf of a government that's about to conduct an experiment on the population of this country, the results of which neither he nor they can predict. Which, in my opinion, is a shocking disgrace.

(Rant over).

[refitman]

Mark Cavendish.

Ed Balls? Mornington Crescent?

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Or has there been research that shows children and/or jabbed people can't catch covid/aren't contagious that I've completely missed?

Genuinely baffled

Nope, there is research that shows children/fully vaccinated people are less contagious, but not not contagious at all. It's baffling because it makes absolutely no sense from any logical public health perspective, but it seems such perspectives are no longer fashionable.

Johnson wants the beaches open for the Summer and instead of hiring a boat to catch the giant shark our Chief Medical Officer is encouraging people into the water claiming it's better to be eaten by the shark now rather than later.

[gilsey]

Mark Cavendish.

Ed Balls? Mornington Crescent?

‘an astonishing sporting comeback from the Manx Missile’

- Guardian

[gilsey]

I’m on holiday in Devon, following a bit of sport and trying to avoid much politics.

They don’t care if we die.

[tinyclanger2]

It's true. They don't.

[Willow904]

Or has there been research that shows children and/or jabbed people can't catch covid/aren't contagious that I've completely missed?

Genuinely baffled

Nope, there is research that shows children/fully vaccinated people are less contagious, but not not contagious at all. It's baffling because it makes absolutely no sense from any logical public health perspective, but it seems such perspectives are no longer fashionable.

Johnson wants the beaches open for the Summer and instead of hiring a boat to catch the giant shark our Chief Medical Officer is encouraging people into the water claiming it's better to be eaten by the shark now rather than later.

It really is baffling because if the fully vaccinated and children don't tend to pass it on then the virus will quickly stop circulating anyway and fewer and fewer people will need to isolate without any change to the isolation rules because eventually the vast majority of the population will either be a child or double jabbed. This is essentially a decision to end test, track and trace but without saying so or providing any evidence it's no longer needed.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

This is essentially a decision to end test, track and trace but without saying so or providing any evidence it's no longer needed.

Indeed, it's become too much of an inconvenience to businesses and schools. They won't admit it, they'll simply keep watering it down until it's gone.

Next to go will be this...https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

According to Tory backbenchers and right wing commentators, the public having access to such knowledge is 'counterproductive'.

I expected Javid to be a disaster, but I didn't think the Tories would rid themselves of the bothersome shackles of regarding Covid as a public health matter quite so quickly. Nor did I think senior public servants would be so eager to help them.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I’m on holiday in Devon, following a bit of sport and trying to avoid much politics.

Dartmoor?

[gilsey]

South coast, enough moors at home.

Been to Burgh Island today, scenic but a tad blustery.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Looks lovely. Did you venture into the snazzy art deco hotel?

[gilsey]

There’s no indication that it’s open to non-residents, so no.

We found a bench and waited a bit for the tide to come in, wondered if there’d be anyone late coming back to the mainland, no beach tractor because of the wind. In fact the last people to cross were hotel guests, the water was up to their knees. Idiots.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Let's see what epidemiologist Eric Feigl-Ding who's been right about Covid19 from the very beginning thinks about our glorious leader's plan to kill us all.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

There’s no indication that it’s open to non-residents, so no.

We found a bench and waited a bit for the tide to come in, wondered if there’d be anyone late coming back to the mainland, no beach tractor because of the wind. In fact the last people to cross were hotel guests, the water was up to their knees. Idiots.

Ha ha.

I bet they were posh, I just checked the prices and the cheapest rooms seem to be £350 a night.

[tinybgoat]

"New Zealand not willing to risk UK-style ‘live with Covid’ policy, says Jacinda Ardern"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Epidemiologist : Michael Baker

Baker said public health professionals were “disturbed” by the UK’s return to allowing Covid to circulate unchecked, and that the phrase “living with it” was a “meaningless slogan” that failed to communicate the consequences of millions of infections, or the alternative options for managing the virus.

“We often absorb a lot of our rhetoric from Europe and North America, which have really managed the pandemic very badly,” he said. “I don’t think we should necessarily follow or accept Boris Johnson and co saying: “Oh, we have to learn to live with virus.’

“We always have to be a bit sceptical about learning lessons from countries that have failed very badly.”