Tuesday 28th September 2021

[refitman]

Morning all.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Good morefternoon, all.

[refitman]

[AnatolyKasparov]

What boomers want, boomers get.

Said it the day after the last GE, and do again now - I doubt if meaningful change will be possible until large numbers of them have died off.

[notnowsonny]

What boomers want, boomers get.

Said it the day after the last GE, and do again now - I doubt if meaningful change will be possible until large numbers of them have died off.

Shouldn't that be "until large numbers of us have died off", or am I in a minority here?

[gilsey]

Pointless discussion.

[AnatolyKasparov]

What boomers want, boomers get.

Said it the day after the last GE, and do again now - I doubt if meaningful change will be possible until large numbers of them have died off.

Shouldn't that be "until large numbers of us have died off", or am I in a minority here?

Yes, people like you are (sadly) a minority amongst your age group.

You surely know what most of them are like - "WE WON THE WAR" and "BORIS IS SO FUNNY".

(and I am - narrowly - Generation X, so don't have much more to boast about really)

[gilsey]

What boomers want, boomers get.

Said it the day after the last GE, and do again now - I doubt if meaningful change will be possible until large numbers of them have died off.

Shouldn't that be "until large numbers of us have died off", or am I in a minority here?

No you're not, or at least you're not alone.

However the political landscape we take for granted will be completely up-ended by climate change before time's up for significant numbers of boomers.

[notnowsonny]

What boomers want, boomers get.

Said it the day after the last GE, and do again now - I doubt if meaningful change will be possible until large numbers of them have died off.

Shouldn't that be "until large numbers of us have died off", or am I in a minority here?

Yes, people like you are (sadly) a minority amongst your age group.

You surely know what most of them are like - "WE WON THE WAR" and "BORIS IS SO FUNNY".

(and I am - narrowly - Generation X, so don't have much more to boast about really)

[Removes tongue in cheek before typing]

Indeed, most of my friends locally are Tory-voting Brexiteers, so I am very aware of the type, though to be fair I don't hear so much of the WWTW and most of the "Boris" comments are hedged around with caveats!

[notnowsonny]

What boomers want, boomers get.

Said it the day after the last GE, and do again now - I doubt if meaningful change will be possible until large numbers of them have died off.

Shouldn't that be "until large numbers of us have died off", or am I in a minority here?

No you're not, or at least you're not alone.

However the political landscape we take for granted will be completely up-ended by climate change before time's up for significant numbers of boomers.

[See earlier comment for context]

I guess we just have to work a little bit harder to prove we're not all the stereotypical boomers and at the same time convince more people to take climate change seriously!

[Willow904]

I'm not sure how offering more of the same will win votes when people inevitably get fed up of the status quo. Promising to match the Tories like for like on austerity didn't work so why will parroting them on Brexit?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Because most who voted for Brexit still see the slightest criticism of it as a mortal insult against their own identity?

(which ties in with what I said above, they tend to be older voters and once enough of them die perhaps change on this will be possible)

[tinyclanger2]

Perhaps I've been living in a parallel universe.

[Willow904]

Because most who voted for Brexit still see the slightest criticism of it as a mortal insult against their own identity?

(which ties in with what I said above, they tend to be older voters and once enough of them die perhaps change on this will be possible)

Bollocks.

The exact same thing was being said about austerity not so long ago. It's what people want, blah, blah. Yet where's austerity now?

Surely we all know by now that the Tories use the press and propaganda to manipulate people into wanting what the Tories want to give them. It's always been that way and Brexit is no different. It's not some special case, some sacred cow, it's no different from every other shit idea the Tory party have sold the nation.

And although I accept that choosing to rejoin is not the same as choosing not to leave and is not the automatic follow on from opposing Brexit, a real political party would at least make space for debate. A real political party would question whether our current Brexit is working and have the vision to offer something different. Not kowtow to Tory bullshit propaganda. If Labour can't change people's minds they're not going to change anything.

[Willow904]

And do boomers really get what they want?

Did they really want all the libraries to shut, bus services gutted, GP surgeries overwhelmed, social care on its knees and nursing homes with an annual cost equivalent to a small cottage in Cornwall?

(OK, that last one might not be true yet, but we're getting there)

[gilsey]

Don't you think our expectations are being successfully manoeuvred downwards since 2010?
And Labour doing sod all to change that now, despite herculean efforts from McDonnell.

[gilsey]

a real political party would at least make space for debate. A real political party would question whether our current Brexit is working and have the vision to offer something different. Not kowtow to Tory bullshit propaganda. If Labour can't change people's minds they're not going to change anything.

See my quote of Peter Foster's tweet above for what happens when Labour debate it. Hopeless.

[AnatolyKasparov]

What boomers mostly care about is sticking it to brown people, furriners and "yoof snowflakes".

Yes, I'm cynical. But recent experience is proving me correct.

As for political parties changing the terms of debate, I have become deeply sceptical about that as long as our *still* overwhelmingly powerful and dominant amongst older voters mainstream media (plus a bit of radicalisation from Facebook, of course) remains as it is.

It might be something for a legacy party to try, but not one that aspires to goverment in the next 20 years or so.

What I am really saying here is that those obsessing about what Labour are doing are missing the wood for the trees. Yes indeed, Starmer is an uninspiring and disappointing leader who is also (and this is the bit that has surprised me) not very good at the nuts and bolts of the job. But the fact is that the party tried to take the system head on in 2019, and was all but annihiliated. Quite simply, "they" are more powerful *and* numerous than "us" and changing that will be partly about demographics (as I have already said) but also about organising and raising consciousness outside party politics.

Been wanting to get something like this off my chest for a while

[Willow904]

What I am really saying here is that those obsessing about what Labour are doing are missing the wood for the trees.

I think it's more that some of us are worried that while Labour are failing to win people over with what the Tories are already giving them they're losing the few voters they do have.

And they're certainly not going to win over undecideds with an aura that's dripping with powerlessness and an inability to change anything.

Because that's what I hear when Labour MPs say we're not going to rejoin the SM or customs union - that they're not going to change anything. If you can't say how you're going to do something better, then don't talk about it at all, talk about what you will do.

Skyrocketing energy prices?

Don't say you're not going to renationalise energy, say you're going to invest in renewables which are already starting to be cheaper than fossil fuels.

Etc, etc

[Willow904]

I'm also not entirely convinced that boomers mostly care about "sticking it to brown people, furriners and "yoof snowflakes".

These are themes they are encouraged to get riled up about by the papers. Stuff they get riled up about all on their own tend to be things like new housing developments (not in my backyard), bad parking near schools and buses passing too far away/too close to their house (depending on whether or not they catch buses).

Or maybe that's just round my way.....

[AnatolyKasparov]

Yes, newspapers that they not just still read but actually believe.

[RogerOThornhill]

Good evening.

Well, I have 'er indoors back indoors again - high temperature on Sunday morning involved dropping her at A&E and then sitting at home waiting for an email saying "please come and collect me" - which today seemed to take forever.

There are still long queues for petrol at every garage that actually has some...

In other news, I see the chap with a statue fetish is telling Mary Beard what she wrote rather than what she - and many others - thought she wrote.

[tinyclanger2]

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Quite simply, "they" are more powerful *and* numerous than "us" and changing that will be partly about demographics (as I have already said) but also about organising and raising consciousness outside party politics.

But that's not true though is it? "They" are a minority, an unfortunately sizeable one, but a minority nonetheless. The Tories are only in power with an 80 seat majority because of our voting system.

Even the miserable little compromise of AV would have handed Corbyn victory in 2017, he'd have had to cobble together a coalition but it would have had the numbers to defeat May and the DUP and he'd have been Prime Minister. As a result it seems highly unlikely we'd have left the EU. Yet despite Ed Miliband's best efforts at the time over half of Labour MPs voiced their opposition to AV and supported a campaign replete with so many lies it would have made the brexiters blush.

"We" are a majority, of which the Labour party is but a part. Something it seems eternaly unable to recognise or admit to itself which has resulted in years of unnecessary Tory misrule. Promise after promise about electoral reform broken, even when they were in power, because despite claiming to be Socialists the last thing the Labour party wants to do is share.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56435341

[PorFavor]

What a missed opportunity that under-rated and much-maligned man was. Ed Miliband, that is.

[PorFavor]

I only discovered, yesterday, that Nanci Griffith died recently. Therefore -

[Sky'sGoneOut]

[Sky'sGoneOut]

If you have the time, this is worth a watch.



I like the little guy at the front with the tambourine.

[PorFavor]

[PorFavor]

Indulging my maudlin streak. Nanci Griffith has that effect on me.

[PorFavor]

Night night.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

We're all fragile and weird.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Sleep tight,