Tuesday 18th November 2014

[ephemerid]

I spent a long time building that wall.


http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/ ... eview-ssac" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Freud announces review into the Social Security Advisory Committee on whether it needs to exist.

For the second day running.

One word.

Fascism.

[danesclose]

Just seen this tweet from Exaro News:

2014-11-18_204724.jpg (29.31 KiB) Viewed 11038 times

[ohsocynical]

Hah. Tonight is the first time I've watched a football match since my eyes were finally fixed.
It's amazing, I can actually see the footballer's faces. Wish I'd been able to see the World cup matches so clearly.

[AngryAsWell]

Just had to come off twitter as two people having a right go at me over PFI's - as though I signed the bloody things! Trying to get across that - I know they have not worked out as was thought - but hospitals under last tory government were in a horrendous condition. Our local hospital had leaking roofs (with buckets in corridors and porters who's job was to empty them) and wards closed down as they were to damp and cold to use. Something had to be done about them.
When I said "two strangers are having a go at me" one came back and said "I'm not a stranger" (or something - not going back to check)
This is just to say that if the person having a pop at me is from this list (the only way they could "know" me) you have seriously unnerve and upset me to the point I'm feeling very vulnerable. There was no need to go at me over something I have no control over whatsoever.
If its not someone on here my apologies for bringing my woes to the board
(feeling sad and about to cry - these are so-called Labour supporters, tory's or kippers I can handle.)

[ohsocynical]

Just had to come off twitter as two people having a right go at me over PFI's - as though I signed the bloody things! Trying to get across that - I know they have not worked out as was thought - but hospitals under last tory government were in a horrendous condition. Our local hospital had leaking roofs (with buckets in corridors and porters who's job was to empty them) and wards closed down as they were to damp and cold to use. Something had to be done about them.
When I said "two strangers are having a go at me" one came back and said "I'm not a stranger" (or something - not going back to check)
This is just to say that if the person having a pop at me is from this list (the only way they could "know" me) you have seriously unnerve and upset me to the point I'm feeling very vulnerable. There was no need to go at me over something I have no control over whatsoever.
If its not someone on here my apologies for bringing my woes to the board
(feeling sad and about to cry - these are so-called Labour supporters, tory's or kippers I can handle.)

The snag with Twitter is there isn't a high enough word allowance to get a point or opinion across. Lends itself to slogans and links but not much else.

[HindleA]

@AngryAsWell

Sorry to hear that.

[ohsocynical]

Just had to come off twitter as two people having a right go at me over PFI's - as though I signed the bloody things! Trying to get across that - I know they have not worked out as was thought - but hospitals under last tory government were in a horrendous condition. Our local hospital had leaking roofs (with buckets in corridors and porters who's job was to empty them) and wards closed down as they were to damp and cold to use. Something had to be done about them.
When I said "two strangers are having a go at me" one came back and said "I'm not a stranger" (or something - not going back to check)
This is just to say that if the person having a pop at me is from this list (the only way they could "know" me) you have seriously unnerve and upset me to the point I'm feeling very vulnerable. There was no need to go at me over something I have no control over whatsoever.
If its not someone on here my apologies for bringing my woes to the board
(feeling sad and about to cry - these are so-called Labour supporters, tory's or kippers I can handle.)

Sorry you had to deal with that. It saddens me that a lot of people become incandescent with rage at the mere mention of PFIs without really knowing much about them, particularly lumping them in with the privatisation of services that is currently taking place. The fact is there were good reasons for using PFI deals, and the later ones under the last government were a pretty good deal for the taxpayer until the banks screwed the economy and Osborne sent inflation skywards.

Moreover, anyone using intimidatory tactics on social media is not worth the time and no ally of mine, whatever their views. It saddens me a whole lot more that the left can't seem to stop attacking itself at the moment when the real enemy is plain to see.

I think it depends a lot on what sort of contracts were signed. Some allowed hospitals to buy themselves out which will save them a lot of money, but most didn't.
I felt disquiet when I heard what Blair was doing, because I knew how voracious American health companies were. I was highly suspicious of letting them in the door under any guise, however what is done wis done. Onward and upward.

[RogerOThornhill]

Heh.

Tory councillor doesn't want grammar schools opening as satellites of existing ones because....local authorities could do exactly the same with their schools!

http://www.conservativehome.com/localgo ... stake.html

Councils opposed to academies and free schools would claim the right to do the same thing in their own areas. Current government policy is based on a presumption that every new school is set up by an academy or free school group not by local authorities. For every new grammar run satellite school we would have five local authority run satellite schools by Councils ideologically opposed to losing control. It would reduce choice and quality, which runs contrary to everything this government has done so far in education. As we could not limit satellite schools to only existing grammar schools we would be opening the gates to all.

Funny, that "choice" doesn't seem to apply to LAs which have to do what the DfE tells them.

[AngryAsWell]

Thanks all, feel a bit silly really, but I'd only just logged on and got bombarded ....
Agree on the problem with not enough words on twitter, that sums up the whole problem I had tonight, that and two of them going at the same time.
Thanks for reassurance's

[AngryAsWell]

Just had to come off twitter as two people having a right go at me over PFI's - as though I signed the bloody things! Trying to get across that - I know they have not worked out as was thought - but hospitals under last tory government were in a horrendous condition. Our local hospital had leaking roofs (with buckets in corridors and porters who's job was to empty them) and wards closed down as they were to damp and cold to use. Something had to be done about them.
When I said "two strangers are having a go at me" one came back and said "I'm not a stranger" (or something - not going back to check)
This is just to say that if the person having a pop at me is from this list (the only way they could "know" me) you have seriously unnerve and upset me to the point I'm feeling very vulnerable. There was no need to go at me over something I have no control over whatsoever.
If its not someone on here my apologies for bringing my woes to the board
(feeling sad and about to cry - these are so-called Labour supporters, tory's or kippers I can handle.)

Sorry you had to deal with that. It saddens me that a lot of people become incandescent with rage at the mere mention of PFIs without really knowing much about them, particularly lumping them in with the privatisation of services that is currently taking place. The fact is there were good reasons for using PFI deals, and the later ones under the last government were a pretty good deal for the taxpayer until the banks screwed the economy and Osborne sent inflation skywards.

Moreover, anyone using intimidatory tactics on social media is not worth the time and no ally of mine, whatever their views. It saddens me a whole lot more that the left can't seem to stop attacking itself at the moment when the real enemy is plain to see.

Agree on that (blue above)
That's how I understood PFI's - and what's happened with them.
A question, if you know Robert, at the end of the contract do the buildings belong to the contractor or the NHS (or Trust or whatever) ?

[gilsey]

Do you have this one, very good pruning advice, if any of your customers have old roses. And very pretty pictures.

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookD ... %3Bsts%3Dt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No I don't - thank you, it looks very interesting. What a price differential on that link - from £68 new to £0.64 used. I will investigate more thoroughly. I started to get properly into roses last year - when we had finally got some of the right kind of space cleared here to plant some. And then, of course, suddenly customers appeared who had roses that needed attention - or transplanting to better spots etc. Funny how these things coincide.

You may be aware,if so ignore me,but when it comes to roses only two words need to be said;Peter Beales.
I have spent many a happy hour with the catalogue,beautiful photography and an amazing choice of old and new roses,Stanwell Perpetual is one of my favourites.You can order the catalogue online,it's beautiful and very helpful about where to plant etc.

A friend of mine calls it rose porn.

I confess to researching with Peter Beales and David Austin, then buying cheaper elsewhere.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I had to try and explain that the PFI figures you see aren't what they understand as debts but liabilities- ie they include lots of future running costs too, which we would be paying anyway.

I noted that some of the people weren't remotely interested in this distinction.

[RogerOThornhill]

Interesting.

Wednesday's Telegraph -
"Exclusive: Father claims Scotland Yard covered up son's murder"

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/5 ... 48/photo/1

Have there been any rumours about which Tory MP it might have been?

[AngryAsWell]

If anyone interested I found the PFI answer to the question I asked Robert...
On PFI projects, a single integrated supply team is appointed with design, construction and facilities management expertise to design and build a development and then to operate it for a period of time. A special purpose vehicle (SPV), of which the integrated supply team is a part, finances the project and leases it to the government for an agreed period (perhaps 30 years) after which the development reverts to government ownership.
So basically a hospital build under PFI is still a state "asset" - albeit a long term one - which has been built and maintained (including security staff on some) for 30+ years by private money, for which we paid "rent".
Humm - much to think about there, as if we'd not had the crash of '08 they (may?) still have been reasonable(ish) value? Or at least not as outlandishly expensive when taking the value of the (maintained) property into account.
Must do more research on this.
Won't get copped again....
Edit to add link to above quote

http://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wik ... initiative" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tubby Isaacs]

Are those £300 to change a light bulb PFI stories true?

[AngryAsWell]

Are those £300 to change a light bulb PFI stories true?

Not sure, but if so its more understandable as to why the costs seem/are so high.

[AngryAsWell]

I had to try and explain that the PFI figures you see aren't what they understand as debts but liabilities- ie they include lots of future running costs too, which we would be paying anyway.

I noted that some of the people weren't remotely interested in this distinction.

Not been back on twitter - rummaging around PFI info......

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's also worth saying that many PFI deals can be bought out, and a couple of Tory MPs were proudly telling Parliament their local hospital had done so and saved money.

Which is interesting, because of course Gordo "locked us into them for 30 years".

[refitman]

Are those £300 to change a light bulb PFI stories true?

Not sure, but if so its more understandable as to why the costs seem/are so high.

I can't find it now, but from what I remember it was a specialist bulb (not your standard 40W) and required a technician to install it. I think it was in some equipment.

[adam]

YouGov Labour lead by 2

Labour 34
Con 32
UKIP 15
Lib Dem 7
Green 6

[adam]

On changing technology - my dad retired in 1986 but until then was working on the British Library Catalogue of Printed Books, overseeing the day by day upkeep and updating of the 'working' copy. By hand. Sticking little slips of paper onto the right place on pages and sticking in extra pages. I'm sure that there was more to his job than this but not actually entirely sure.

Also on changing technology I recommend a look at the unaired 1994 pilot for '24' (allegedly).

[youtube]JMLH_QyPTYM[/youtube]

[Tubby Isaacs]

This didn't seem to go anywhere.

Osborne's review of PFI in 2011.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/trea ... i-projects" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gilsey]

Problems with PFI.

One is the effective privatisation of the hospital infrastructure, so the clinical management had no control over maintenance etc. It has been said to be very difficult to get minor problems fixed, as they would have to go up the NHS chain of command and then down the contractor's. I suppose 'in the old days' Matron would just pop down to see the handyman.

Another was the ridiculous justification that the 'risk' of undertaking the building contract was transferred to the contractor. I never could understand what risk was involved. The contractors charged a huge premium for taking on the so-called risk. And of course, they borrowed the money to finance the contract, at a far higher rate of interest than the government would be charged. The rate was fixed for the life of some of the early contracts, I think most were re-negotiated, even the contractors had to admit it was ridiculous after rates had fallen.

[ErnstRemarx]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -diversity" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Abbot is right, but a post on the Graun notes her bona fides for the article (and is quite right to do so, despite coming from a right wing poster):

"After university she became an administration trainee at the Home Office (1976 to 1978), and then a Race Relations Officer at the National Council for Civil Liberties (1978 to 1980).[11] Abbott was a researcher and reporter at Thames Television from 1980 to 1983 and then a researcher and reporter at the breakfast television company TV-am from 1983 to 1985. Abbott was a press officer at the Greater London Council under Ken Livingstone from 1985 to 1986 and Head of Press and Public Relations at Lambeth Council from 1986 to 1987"

My missus works as a coal face rep, and has done for over 20 years in the trade union movement, has served on the NEC of Unite and prior to it MSF and Amicus. She's been in about half a dozen selections and never got the nod.

That tells me plenty about what needs to change in the Labour party.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It has been said to be very difficult to get minor problems fixed, as they would have to go up the NHS chain of command and then down the contractor's

I worked in places where they outsource everything but the core business, and you didn't really notice anything.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is from the heady days when the Coalition were thought to be saving money with common sense.

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/governme ... 15.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note the Defend Council Housing bloke there. Says he happy about these cuts.

I wouldn't be surprised if the money never showed up in Northampton for housing at all.

So I guess PFI did at lease ensure future governments couldn't come in and cut everything.

[rebeccariots2]

Conservative MPs complain that Rochester election leaflet links crime and immigration
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... ation.html

Another leaflet that's seriously below the standard that should be required. Activists and MPs don't want to distribute it!

[AngryAsWell]

Off to bed thank for support/ kindness
Catch ya all tomorrow

[RogerOThornhill]

Conservative MPs complain that Rochester election leaflet links crime and immigration
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... ation.html

Another leaflet that's seriously below the standard that should be required. Activists and MPs don't want to distribute it!

Love that last line...

P.S: If immigration is uncontrolled, who’s responsible for this?

"Hey, nothing to do with us...we've only been in power for...is it really four years...er..."

[Tubby Isaacs]

This is the sort of leftist stuff on PFI I find frustrating.

http://www.aworldtowin.net/blog/pfi-alb ... ivate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yesterday, a special administrator recommended that South London Healthcare Trust should be broken up in the wake of its financial failure. The Department of Health should write off £207 million worth of debts built up by the trust driven to the brink of bankruptcy by PFI deals, the administrator said.

It should also provide up to £25 million extra per year to help continue pay for PFI deals. Two of the trust’s three hospitals were built under Labour using PFI funding. The trust plans to slash its workforce over the next five years, from 5,838 whole time equivalents in March 2012 to 4,755 in March 2016.

Administrator Matthew Kershaw said the money spent on PFIs accounted for around a third of the trust's £65 million overspend in the last financial year.

If they overspent by £40m on stuff nothing to do with the PFI just in one year, then there are clearly much bigger problems.

And of course overspend/underspend is internal accounting anyway. If there's a particular problem the hospital can do nothing about, as seems to be the case with PFI, then set them a bigger budget.

Happier attacking Labour than Hunt, who's set up the standards the trust's failed by,

It's also unnecessarily snarky

Margaret Hodge, a member of the previous government and now chair of the PAC, presumably saw no irony in agreeing the committee’s report

She never even got beyond Minister of State, and not in anything to do with PFI.

[rebeccariots2]

Labour’s new immigration policy: more moderate voices needed
http://leftfootforward.org/2014/11/labo ... es-needed/

[PaulfromYorkshire]

@Tubby

Well PFI, designed by Major and continued by New Labour, may not be one of the UK's crowning glories but compared to the list of other shambles being visited on the population it's positively successful.

Or, in other words, why don't we just say PFI wasn't the best idea ever but at least it built hospitals. Better than scamming the money to build banks.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... hiles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just unbelievable testimony. As others have said I hesitate to post it here.

[Tubby Isaacs]

@Tubby

Well PFI, designed by Major and continued by New Labour, may not be one of the UK's crowning glories but compared to the list of other shambles being visited on the population it's positively successful.

Or, in other words, why don't we just say PFI wasn't the best idea ever but at least it built hospitals. Better than scamming the money to build banks.

Yep.

As we've seen, capital funding is always the first thing to get cut.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... hiles.html

Just unbelievable testimony. As others have said I hesitate to post it here.

I cannot believe that I'm reading this

According to the man, a 12-year-old boy was strangled by a Conservative MP at a town house in front of other victims.
On another occasion, a boy of around 10 was deliberately run down and killed by a car being driven by one of his abusers, the man claimed.

[HindleA]

're Government defeat earlier


http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... -landlords" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rebeccariots2]

Rochester by-election victory for Ukip will spark 'instability and insecurity' warns Cameron
PM issued the stark warning during a final visit to the Kent constituency
He also refused to deny house prices could tumble if Tories lose seat
Tory defector Mark Reckless looks set to win the seat on Thursday
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... meron.html

It sounds as though Cameron was at his most fatuous today in Rochester.

I think the instability and insecurity sparked will most probably be for him and his leadership.

This piece includes some rather sweet examples of typically crap PR choices by Cameron and utter irony failure:

The scale of Mr Cameron's task was underlined by the fact that the boss of the firm he was visiting admitted he had been wavering over whether to end his long history of voting for the Conservatives on Thursday.

He said he had been encouraged by what he heard from Mr Cameron about action to force banks to lend, complaining that the refusal of the bank he had used for more than 30 years to provide funds when the firm was hit by the recession and had to shed several posts had seriously delayed its resurgence

What a cheek by Cameron eh. They've only had 4 1/2 years to take such action ... and signally failed to do so. If this business owner believes Cameron on that ... and votes for him on the basis of it ... he will deserve a Tory government.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Given that Cameron's all but said "we're in the shit", he'd be well advised on not expecting too much lending from his bank.

Forcing banks to lend? Sounds like that nasty Ed stuff about forcing developers to sell land.

[pk1]

Rochester by-election victory for Ukip will spark 'instability and insecurity' warns Cameron
PM issued the stark warning during a final visit to the Kent constituency
He also refused to deny house prices could tumble if Tories lose seat
Tory defector Mark Reckless looks set to win the seat on Thursday
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... meron.html

It sounds as though Cameron was at his most fatuous today in Rochester.

I think the instability and insecurity sparked will most probably be for him and his leadership.

This piece includes some rather sweet examples of typically crap PR choices by Cameron and utter irony failure:

The scale of Mr Cameron's task was underlined by the fact that the boss of the firm he was visiting admitted he had been wavering over whether to end his long history of voting for the Conservatives on Thursday.

He said he had been encouraged by what he heard from Mr Cameron about action to force banks to lend, complaining that the refusal of the bank he had used for more than 30 years to provide funds when the firm was hit by the recession and had to shed several posts had seriously delayed its resurgence

What a cheek by Cameron eh. They've only had 4 1/2 years to take such action ... and signally failed to do so. If this business owner believes Cameron on that ... and votes for him on the basis of it ... he will deserve a Tory government.

Did you see C4 news tonight ? Can't get a working link unfortunately.

17 yr old lad declared he was a Tory & regurgitated the lines heard from the mouths of tory MPs - he will be selected for a tory seat within the next 10 years, mark my words - can spot em a mile away.

[pk1]

Newsnight debated repealing the hunting ban with a Tory MP(against) & a Labour peer (for), although she was also something to do with the Countryside Alliance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... t-18112014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There was a piece with Yvette Cooper on her speech but which Wark just seemed to want to accuse Cooper of wanting to be party leader

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ledge.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... mes-london" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Boris Johnson could cut 90% of funding for schemes targeted at some of London’s most deprived and vulnerable young people, under proposals drawn up by officials. Documents seen by the Guardian detail a schedule for the mayor to take the axe to funds currently directed towards mentoring, volunteering, supplementary schooling, healthy eating and services for young people excluded from schools. The proposed spending reductions are so swingeing that officials fear London might have difficulty obtaining further finance from Europe, which is triggered by match funding.

Probably leaked, so that he can "order a rethink" and save a few projects where he has his photo taken.

[Tubby Isaacs]

There was a piece with Yvette Cooper on her speech but which Wark just seemed to want to accuse Cooper of wanting to be party leader

Yeah, Shadow Cabinet member announcing policy. Clear leadership pitch.

[ErnstRemarx]

Are those £300 to change a light bulb PFI stories true?

Are they bollocks. They were atypical stories about changing specialist (and very expensive) bulbs in equally expensive and and specialist unit's kit. Emphatically not a 60w Osram bulb in the corridor.

But don't expect those right wing jerks out there in the meeja to mention it.

[RogerOThornhill]

There was a piece with Yvette Cooper on her speech but which Wark just seemed to want to accuse Cooper of wanting to be party leader

Yeah, Shadow Cabinet member announcing policy. Clear leadership pitch.

They can't win - it's "Ed's not a hit so others should be stepping up to announce policy"...but when they do they get a "Aha, leadership challenge!"

[Tubby Isaacs]

Are those £300 to change a light bulb PFI stories true?

Are they bollocks. They were atypical stories about changing specialist (and very expensive) bulbs in equally expensive and and specialist unit's kit. Emphatically not a 60w Osram bulb in the corridor.

But don't expect those right wing jerks out there in the meeja to mention it.

It's the leftwing jerks who get me.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Couple of people seem to reckon restricting EU migrant tax credits is outdoing UKIP.

Bloke on another board, who basically did an MA on the EU, reckons that it's virtually a done deal anyway, as it came up in the Commission President debate, brought up by Guy Verhofstadt who is very federalist.

Never mind, sounds a bit like UKIP.

[gilsey]

It has been said to be very difficult to get minor problems fixed, as they would have to go up the NHS chain of command and then down the contractor's

I worked in places where they outsource everything but the core business, and you didn't really notice anything.

I think you're a 'bit' younger than me, Tubby. It took a while for people to get the hang of outsourcing.

And of course overspend/underspend is internal accounting anyway. If there's a particular problem the hospital can do nothing about, as seems to be the case with PFI, then set them a bigger budget.

Oh, if only.


I should be clear, I always thought PFI was poor value for money but I blame the politicians less than the Treasury. It all stemmed from the daft public expenditure accounting traditions.
In reality, it was the only way the hospitals would get built, as Paul rightly says.

[HindleA]

NAO Report into the Financial Sustainability of Local Authorities
The impact of funding reductions on local authorities


http://www.nao.org.uk/report/financial- ... ties-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-impact ... thorities/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TheGrimSqueaker]

http://www.barterbooks.co.uk/html/About ... okshop.php

Looks like my kinda place. Would they allow me to bring a sleeping bag & stay for the week?