Tuesday 18th November 2014

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 6:57 am

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1029130 ... ers-as-new" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay. So I know this is a targeted press release and I may appear nitpicking, but... Personally, using language like 'Labour is on side of people who work hard and do the right thing but are being let down by David Cameron’s government. ' plays into the Conservatives hands.

Hard working. Do the right thing. These phrases are used so often by the current government as to indicate that there are "others". Those that aren't hard working. Don't do the right thing (since when was this a binary decision? Anyway, I digress). Which breeds the true politics of envy, that attempt to dislike, fear, hate those not like us that aren't pulling their weight, doing their fair share. What happened to One Nation? We're all pulling together towards a common goal, a fairer society?

Maybe I'm waiting for the caffeine to kick it, but that wording raises a lot of red flags and appears to concede a lot of ground towards the coalition’s divisive narrative.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 7:17 am

Morning all.

@Stephen, Rachel & Chuka have, prudently, only been preprogrammed with a limited of phrases they can use; this has been done with all the remaining Blairites, to stop them getting ideas above their station.

Good performance by Miliband on The Agenda last night with a panel every bit as balanced as QT; ex-Ambassador Christopher Meyer (Tory), Alison Pearson from the Torygraph (Tory) and Myleene Klass (possibly Tory, definitely numpty). As I recall the panel was similarly odd last time he was on, and he came out ahead then too. A selection of comments from Twitter give the flavour:

Krishnan Guru-Murthy ‏@krishgm · 8h8 hours ago
Hats off to @tombradby getting Ed miliband on #TheAgenda. Brilliant zoology. Chemistry between Ed and the other guests intriguingly weird

Thomas Hemingford ‏@THemingford · 8h8 hours ago
#TheAgenda Actually good to hear @Ed_Miliband doesn't read the papers much. Newspapers are full of bullsh*t anyway.

Bertie Buttons ‏@bertiebuttons1 · 8h8 hours ago
#theagenda Myleene has done a charity single! That should abrogate her conscience from paying her fair share of tax while many go without.

Patrick Strudwick ‏@PatrickStrud · 8h8 hours ago
Myleene Klass' knowledge of politics, theory and structures, is right up there with Miliband's knowledge of Hearsay lyrics. #TheAgenda

John O'Shea ‏@politicalhackuk · 8h8 hours ago
Nice work by @Ed_Miliband on #theagenda - showing a sense of humour and perspective.

JamieJones77 ‏@JamieJones77 · 7h7 hours ago
Staring at a squealing lunatic rich person and calmly restating your point. Best Ed's done for ages and I'm not a fan. #theagenda

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 7:30 am

Boo

Conservatives lead at 1

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 17th November - Con 33%, Lab 32%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%; APP -18

Post by **refitman** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 7:32 am

Morning all. Tory lead at 1 point on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 17th November -

Con 33%, (+2)
Lab 32%, (no change)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 15%; (no change)
Green 8% (+3)

APP -18 (+9)

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 8:03 am

refitman wrote:Morning all. Tory lead at 1 point on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 17th November -

Con 33%, (+2)
Lab 32%, (no change)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 15%; (no change)
Green 8% (+3)

APP -18 (+9)

Either a sampling error or the Guardian trick of promoting the Green Party is working well.

I suspect sampling error.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 8:12 am

Longtermeconomicplanlongtermeconomicplanlongtermeconomicplan(TM)

This long-term economic plan is so long term it was invented in 2013. OGRFG and Gidiot pretend they've had it all along. They so haven't.
The AAA rating that was so desperately important before February 2013 became irrelevant after February 2013 when it was downgraded.
It took Osborne several months to come up with his mantra, and it got its first outing at the Tory Party Conference in 2013.
Ever since then, at every opportunity, whether relevant to the discussion or not, all the Tories repeat the mantra. Again and again and again.

For four-and-a-half years, the economic troubles we have had in the UK were entirely due to the Labour party. All of them. Bar none.
If there really was a worldwide recession, that was Labour's fault too. It is now "The Great Recession"(TM) caused by Labour.
For more than a year, the longtermeconomicplan(TM) has been a great success and is fixing themessweinherited(TM)
Never mind the debt. Gloss over deficit reduction, which has been un-eliminated despite Osborne's goal of ridding us of it in 5 years.
None of that matters, because we are the only country so far unaffected by the flashingredlightsonthedashboard(TM)
That is due to Ebola, Russia, and the EU - and the only way to escape it is to return a Conservative government at the next election.

Our Glorious Ronsealed Fishpointer General will save us! Only he can rescue us from the terrible fate which awaits the rest of the world!

This, boys and girls, is the narrative that Lynton Crosby is building up to render us all fearful jellies in the hope that we will view Cameron and Osborne as the saviours of our green and unpleasant land - and if Cameron gets chucked out by his ungrateful backbenchers Osborne will take over and continue to save us from perdition.
In order to do this, he will be reluctantly forced to remove taxpayers money in ever greater quantities and give it to his friends who, in turn, will ensure that his policies of removing social security from ill people or whatevs are absolutely guaranteed to solve all the financial woes the rest of the world and Labour and the unions and the scroungers have foisted upon us.

This why he has ensured that Maximus (who are Atos really, who are Unum really) has £50 Million more a year than Atos/Unum etc. had before to cull people with, plus another £10 Million for Atos (who are....etc) to run the systems that make the decisions that do the culling.
This is why he has given G4S £50 Million to recruit 20 Reservists - that's £2.5 Million per part-time soldier. A real bargain.

When there is absolutely no money left, because we have given it to Osborne to give it all away to his friends in order for his friends to take even more from us directly, we will be instructed to blame it all on Labour. Or Ebola, or the Russians, or the EU. Or the Japanese. Or ourselves.

Vote Tory. You know it makes sense.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:08 am

Morning folks,
Did anyone notice Sajid Javid saying, on "How the rich get richer" last night, "Look, we've just come out of the worst recession for 300 years".
I thought OGRFG denies that there ever was a recession?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:24 am

55DegreesNorth wrote:Morning folks,
Did anyone notice Sajid Javid saying, on "How the rich get richer" last night, "Look, we've just come out of the worst recession for 300 years".
I thought OGRFG denies that there ever was a recession?

He used to.

Now, it's "The Great Recession" brought about by Labour. Obviously.

David Blanchflower wrote an article in the Indy some months ago, in which he opined that Britain had taken longer to recover from this recession than at any time since the South Sea Bubble.
Which was 314 years ago.
He said that his previous statement that this was the worst in 100 years was wrong.

Javid, in his speech to the Tories at their conference, said this - "Labour brought us the deepest recession in 100 years" (I wonder where he filched that from?) and now he's saying it's 300 years (I wonder where he filched that from?)
Far be it from me to suggest that young Sajid would choose to quote selectively from a left-leaning economist of note; I am quite sure he's above that kind of thing......

Of course, Blanchflower didn't confine himself to the 300-year thing - he also said that the government's "triumphalism over restoring output to its starting level is totally misplaced".
I don't suppose that Javid mentioned that bit......

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:26 am

Sports Direct has lost our custom
We have five children attending local schools and sixth-form college and we use the local gym. As a family we have a large demand for trainers, shin pads, gym wear, racquets etc and we were quite happy using Sports Direct to provide us with these. Until the weekend that is. Perhaps we were naïve, but we were shocked to discover its employment practices (Letters, 17 November). We were even more shocked that, after Ed Miliband raised the issue, the company chose to mock him rather than deal with it (or justify it). Perhaps it is not surprising that “playing the man and not the ball” should be the tactic of a sports equipment company, however, this argumentum ad hominem demonstrates their overall attitude: immoral employment practices, contempt for logic and bigoted politics. They have lost our custom.
Martin and Judy Miller
Cheadle Hulme, Cheshire
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... our-custom

Just because it's good to hear the views of decent people ... I hope there are many more like this. (No, I'm not imagining there will be a mass boycott of Sports Direct - too much to hope for. But I hope there are some comments being left on their Facebook page or product reviews.)

Post by **adam** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:31 am

From Mike Smithson's twitter feed

Some consolation for red team. @LordAshcroft poll today had LAB & CON level pegging in England where CON had 11.5% lead at GE2010.

Some consolation indeed.

And it's followed by a reminder of how few Labour/SNP marginals there are in Scotland. Take nothing for granted, but polling continues to show Labour on course.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:34 am

Tessa Jowell ‏@jowellt 20m20 minutes ago
Ripping up an iconic and well-used athletics track is a strange way of preserving Olympic legacy at Crystal Palace http://insidecroydon.com/2014/11/17/jow ... ics-track/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Good article that she links to:

Jowell criticises Boris plan to ‘rip up iconic athletics track’
... Most groups have seen through the consultation as a means for Boris Johnson to deliver another chunk of the Grade II-listed Crystal Palace Park into the interests of the ZhongRong Group, the Chinese company which has proposed to build a replica of the Crystal Palace at the park’s top site.

The mishandled consultation has seen Lord Coe accused of “world-class hypocrisy” for his company’s involvement in a scheme which utterly undermines previous promises of an Olympic legacy for London. The consultation has created an unusual coalition opposed to the schemes, which includes Tory-run Bromley Council, a group behind a Free School which is included in all four options, and now senior Labour MP Jowell...
http://insidecroydon.com/2014/11/17/jow ... ics-track/

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:35 am

Morning.

Was a bit distracted but heard a Tory quote on Radio 4 - a spokesman saying something or other showed that 'Labour were not yet ready for government.'

Suspect we'll be hearing that a lot more, and am concerned it will stick with listeners/viewers.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:40 am

Seats could be left vacant if more Tory MPs defect to Ukip before election
William Hague says it will be for parliament to decide whether byelection is necessary in event of further defections
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-election

How late could a sitting MP leave it to jump ship ....? Wouldn't there have to be a cut off point to give sufficient time before the election for another candidate to be found for their deserted party?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:44 am

I've often wondered how the Republican and Conservative parties got tagged as being "better with the economy" and have been all my lifetime as an accepted fact by the general population.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2014 ... al-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:49 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Was a bit distracted but heard a Tory quote on Radio 4 - a spokesman saying something or other showed that 'Labour were not yet ready for government.'

Suspect we'll be hearing that a lot more, and am concerned it will stick with listeners/viewers.

I think that was about the charging overseas visitors on visa waiver scheme a tenner to pay for the extra border guards.

Some Tory said "sums don't add up"* and therefore...and you heard the rest.

* I think I'd die of shock if they said that "labour's plans do add up".

Post by **adam** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:52 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Seats could be left vacant if more Tory MPs defect to Ukip before election
William Hague says it will be for parliament to decide whether byelection is necessary in event of further defections
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-election
How late could a sitting MP leave it to jump ship ....? Wouldn't there have to be a cut off point to give sufficient time before the election for another candidate to be found for their deserted party?

After the Clacton by-election, Carswell was quoted saying that there was a convention that there were no by-elections in the last six months of a parliament and therefore there was no need for a defecting MP to resign her/his seat. There is, of course, no requirement that an MP crossing the floor has to resign (although I'm happy to give Reckless and Carswell a good deal of credit and say that I think they did the right thing, and there should be a convention that you put yourself back before your constituents, even if they did it in part at least for PR reasons). I suspect this is what would happen if there are further defections - they would cite the proximity of the next election and decline to resign their seats.

(I welcome the pedantry point about MPs not being allowed to resign but having to engineer their own dismissal).

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:54 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sports Direct has lost our custom
We have five children attending local schools and sixth-form college and we use the local gym. As a family we have a large demand for trainers, shin pads, gym wear, racquets etc and we were quite happy using Sports Direct to provide us with these. Until the weekend that is. Perhaps we were naïve, but we were shocked to discover its employment practices (Letters, 17 November). We were even more shocked that, after Ed Miliband raised the issue, the company chose to mock him rather than deal with it (or justify it). Perhaps it is not surprising that “playing the man and not the ball” should be the tactic of a sports equipment company, however, this argumentum ad hominem demonstrates their overall attitude: immoral employment practices, contempt for logic and bigoted politics. They have lost our custom.
Martin and Judy Miller
Cheadle Hulme, Cheshire
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... our-custom
Just because it's good to hear the views of decent people ... I hope there are many more like this. (No, I'm not imagining there will be a mass boycott of Sports Direct - too much to hope for. But I hope there are some comments being left on their Facebook page or product reviews.)

Let's face it, Sports Direct isn't a difficult place to boycott, it's a depressing shopping experience before you even get into the ethics.

It's places like Tesco and Amazon I have trouble with, it's so hard to avoid them. I have to drive 4 times as far to the local independent Co-op to avoid Tesco, I just can't justify the trip every time. And then there's Amazon. We drove 40 miles recently to buy a tent from an independent retailer to avoid using Amazon but with Christmas coming up I've just caved and now I have to feel guilty about contributing to their tax-avoiding, poor employment practice induced profits.

What we need is a government committed to stamping out poor, exploitative employment practices and closing tax loopholes. Hmm....I wonder if there's a party that's pledging to do such things? Labour have the right policies and the right leader. I believe the media is wrong in their analysis of why they're not doing that well in the polls. The truth is that 35 years of Thatcherite greed and individualism has eroded our ability to act as a society and make choices based on what's best for everyone rather than just ourselves. People don't like tax avoidance and zero hours contracts but they do like the convenience and cheap prices that these companies offer. They, erroneously in my opinion, believe there is a heavy price to be paid for being 'fair'. Labour need to show how that isn't necessarily the case. It's a tall order, especially how you help those who can't afford housing with lower prices and rents, without hurting those who are already on the housing ladder, but if Labour can resolve these conundrums, they would probably attract wider support.

Post by **adam** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:56 am

On the 'no by-elections within six months' convention point - I can't find it anywhere other than Carswell's speech. There was a by-election in February 1997 just a couple of months before the general election.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 9:56 am

adam wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Seats could be left vacant if more Tory MPs defect to Ukip before election
William Hague says it will be for parliament to decide whether byelection is necessary in event of further defections
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-election
How late could a sitting MP leave it to jump ship ....? Wouldn't there have to be a cut off point to give sufficient time before the election for another candidate to be found for their deserted party?
After the Clacton by-election, Carswell was quoted saying that there was a convention that there were no by-elections in the last six months of a parliament and therefore there was no need for a defecting MP to resign her/his seat. There is, of course, no requirement that an MP crossing the floor has to resign (although I'm happy to give Reckless and Carswell a good deal of credit and say that I think they did the right thing, and there should be a convention that you put yourself back before your constituents, even if they did it in part at least for PR reasons). I suspect this is what would happen if there are further defections - they would cite the proximity of the next election and decline to resign their seats.

(I welcome the pedantry point about MPs not being allowed to resign but having to engineer their own dismissal).

In which case they could cause maximum damage to the party by switching as late as possible leaving the Tories scrabbling around looking for a replacement candidate.

Can you imagine the chaos if they switched the day before nominations were due in?

Post by **adam** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:01 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Can you imagine the chaos if they switched the day before nominations were due in?

I'm sure they'd never even consider such dishonourable behaviour [/asif]

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:05 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
adam wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: How late could a sitting MP leave it to jump ship ....? Wouldn't there have to be a cut off point to give sufficient time before the election for another candidate to be found for their deserted party?
After the Clacton by-election, Carswell was quoted saying that there was a convention that there were no by-elections in the last six months of a parliament and therefore there was no need for a defecting MP to resign her/his seat. There is, of course, no requirement that an MP crossing the floor has to resign (although I'm happy to give Reckless and Carswell a good deal of credit and say that I think they did the right thing, and there should be a convention that you put yourself back before your constituents, even if they did it in part at least for PR reasons). I suspect this is what would happen if there are further defections - they would cite the proximity of the next election and decline to resign their seats.

(I welcome the pedantry point about MPs not being allowed to resign but having to engineer their own dismissal).
In which case they could cause maximum damage to the party by switching as late as possible leaving the Tories scrabbling around looking for a replacement candidate.

Can you imagine the chaos if they switched the day before nominations were due in?

Mass defection leading to a vote of no confidence. Interesting

I wonder how Lib Dem mps would vote? Enjoy the chance to put a distance between the real them and what they've had to do as part of the coalition? So much to daydream about.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:12 am

RR2 quoted a letter above & it reminded me to post the one that made me chuckle at the weekend:

Daniel Boffey was probably right when he wrote: “The headlines (relating to the Labour leadership) are distracting from significant problems currently facing David Cameron.”

They certainly seem to have distracted him and his colleagues on Sunday’s paper from writing about Mr Osborne’s dissimulation with regards to the UK’s payments to the EU. In the Observer this important issue was conspicuous by its absence.

However, this edition of the paper did devote the title page and four other pages to a leadership struggle in the Labour party in which the principal heir has specifically refused to stand now or ever.

All of this was inspired by some gutless wonders so confident in their stance that they were afraid to express their views openly.

Paul Hewitson

Berlin

http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/ ... d-miliband

I love a bit of good old sarcasm

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:13 am

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sports Direct has lost our custom
We have five children attending local schools and sixth-form college and we use the local gym. As a family we have a large demand for trainers, shin pads, gym wear, racquets etc and we were quite happy using Sports Direct to provide us with these. Until the weekend that is. Perhaps we were naïve, but we were shocked to discover its employment practices (Letters, 17 November). We were even more shocked that, after Ed Miliband raised the issue, the company chose to mock him rather than deal with it (or justify it). Perhaps it is not surprising that “playing the man and not the ball” should be the tactic of a sports equipment company, however, this argumentum ad hominem demonstrates their overall attitude: immoral employment practices, contempt for logic and bigoted politics. They have lost our custom.
Martin and Judy Miller
Cheadle Hulme, Cheshire
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... our-custom
Just because it's good to hear the views of decent people ... I hope there are many more like this. (No, I'm not imagining there will be a mass boycott of Sports Direct - too much to hope for. But I hope there are some comments being left on their Facebook page or product reviews.)
Let's face it, Sports Direct isn't a difficult place to boycott, it's a depressing shopping experience before you even get into the ethics.

It's places like Tesco and Amazon I have trouble with, it's so hard to avoid them. I have to drive 4 times as far to the local independent Co-op to avoid Tesco, I just can't justify the trip every time. And then there's Amazon. We drove 40 miles recently to buy a tent from an independent retailer to avoid using Amazon but with Christmas coming up I've just caved and now I have to feel guilty about contributing to their tax-avoiding, poor employment practice induced profits.

What we need is a government committed to stamping out poor, exploitative employment practices and closing tax loopholes. Hmm....I wonder if there's a party that's pledging to do such things? Labour have the right policies and the right leader. I believe the media is wrong in their analysis of why they're not doing that well in the polls. The truth is that 35 years of Thatcherite greed and individualism has eroded our ability to act as a society and make choices based on what's best for everyone rather than just ourselves. People don't like tax avoidance and zero hours contracts but they do like the convenience and cheap prices that these companies offer. They, erroneously in my opinion, believe there is a heavy price to be paid for being 'fair'. Labour need to show how that isn't necessarily the case. It's a tall order, especially how you help those who can't afford housing with lower prices and rents, without hurting those who are already on the housing ladder, but if Labour can resolve these conundrums, they would probably attract wider support.

Morning Willow

Your post reminds me that Osborne said that as of 1 January Amazon would have to pay VAT at UK rates on purchases made from the UK. Is this still happening?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:14 am

StephenDolan wrote: Mass defection leading to a vote of no confidence. Interesting

I wonder how Lib Dem mps would vote? Enjoy the chance to put a distance between the real them and what they've had to do as part of the coalition? So much to daydream about.

Not so much that but the way that a party could be frantically looking for a candidate before nominations closed when their man decides he's not playing for their side any longer.

Nasty tactics but it's a belter of an idea.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:18 am

Aaah it applied to downloads only

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/m ... -downloads" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but it looks like it was the EU that made this happen not Georgie boy who presumably decided to take credit for something he couldn't block

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... ole-ebooks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone care to do a bit more research on this? Looks like it's an example of EU legislation that is fair, benefit UK retailers, but make things dearer for the UK customer.

Post by **adam** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:30 am

From the guardian's rolling business blog

Britain’s supermarket sector has suffered its first drop in grocery sales in two decades, according to data just released:

All is well.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:31 am

Mirror with piece detailing MP's with links to private healthcare:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/se ... st-4646154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Much as I dislike him, can't help thinking the Mirror does itself no favours by mis-spelling someone's name: Kwarsi Kwateng

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:41 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

@Stephen, Rachel & Chuka have, prudently, only been preprogrammed with a limited of phrases they can use; this has been done with all the remaining Blairites, to stop them getting ideas above their station.

Good performance by Miliband on The Agenda last night with a panel every bit as balanced as QT; ex-Ambassador Christopher Meyer (Tory), Alison Pearson from the Torygraph (Tory) and Myleene Klass (possibly Tory, definitely numpty). As I recall the panel was similarly odd last time he was on, and he came out ahead then too. A selection of comments from Twitter give the flavour:

Krishnan Guru-Murthy ‏@krishgm · 8h8 hours ago
Hats off to @tombradby getting Ed miliband on #TheAgenda. Brilliant zoology. Chemistry between Ed and the other guests intriguingly weird

Thomas Hemingford ‏@THemingford · 8h8 hours ago
#TheAgenda Actually good to hear @Ed_Miliband doesn't read the papers much. Newspapers are full of bullsh*t anyway.

Bertie Buttons ‏@bertiebuttons1 · 8h8 hours ago
#theagenda Myleene has done a charity single! That should abrogate her conscience from paying her fair share of tax while many go without.

Patrick Strudwick ‏@PatrickStrud · 8h8 hours ago
Myleene Klass' knowledge of politics, theory and structures, is right up there with Miliband's knowledge of Hearsay lyrics. #TheAgenda

John O'Shea ‏@politicalhackuk · 8h8 hours ago
Nice work by @Ed_Miliband on #theagenda - showing a sense of humour and perspective.

JamieJones77 ‏@JamieJones77 · 7h7 hours ago
Staring at a squealing lunatic rich person and calmly restating your point. Best Ed's done for ages and I'm not a fan. #theagenda

I saw a clip from The Agenda and, with the benefit of hindsight, have prepared a few responses.

Mylene: "2 million gets you a garage in London."
Ed: "And do you think that's a good thing; or should we try to use the levers of state to discourage such astronomical costs for those living in the centre?"

Mylene: "You can't just point at something like - like this water - and say I want to tax it."
Ed: If you have a situation whereby 1% of the country is hoarding the country's water resources and making it inaccessible to the rest of us, then it is right to use the levers of taxation to try and redress that balance.

Meyer: "You're going to hit me with this mansion tax"
Ed: "With respect, Christopher, I guess you're not going to be too happy about the 50% tax band, either."

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:57 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-n ... ge-4646673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:07 am

The figures show that Swansea’s victims are losing a combined total of £130,000 in housing benefit to the under-occupancy policy each month.

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2014 ... s0.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yet Myleene Klass complains about stumping up £250 a month out of all those millions she has.......

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:13 am

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
refitman wrote:Morning all. Tory lead at 1 point on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 17th November -

Con 33%, (+2)
Lab 32%, (no change)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 15%; (no change)
Green 8% (+3)

APP -18 (+9)
Either a sampling error or the Guardian trick of promoting the Green Party is working well.

I suspect sampling error.

The approval figure gives this one away rather.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:20 am

pk1 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-n ... ge-4646673

Myleene Klass is worth £11 million!!!!

My entire knowledge of her is that she was once in an X-Factor style pop band about 15 years ago (which is no long term money spinner if you don't write the songs). Then she presented CD:UK for a few months in its dying, post Ant & Dec days. I thought she was one of those D List celebs who scrapes by from getting married every couple of years and selling the pics to OK magazine. What on earth has she been doing in the past few years to amass such a fortune?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:24 am

pk1 wrote:
The figures show that Swansea’s victims are losing a combined total of £130,000 in housing benefit to the under-occupancy policy each month.
http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2014 ... s0.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yet Myleene Klass complains about stumping up £250 a month out of all those millions she has.......

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You are so unfeeling, poor Myleene is really struggling to pay this tax that doesn't even exist yet. Luckily other people have stepped in to help her ......

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-n ... ge-4646673" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **adam** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:28 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Yet in Daily Telegraph land...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... n-tax.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Singer Myleene Klass ‘wipes the floor’ with Ed Miliband over mansion tax
Singer Myleene Klass went 'full Paxman' on the Labour leader during a TV debate in a stunning annihilation of his mansion tax policies

Andrew Sparrow's comment on the guardian daily politics

On Twitter this morning there are claims Myleene Klass demolished Ed Miliband on the subject of the mansion tax. Quite why is a mystery. Having watched the exchange, she just sounded like a shouty celeb not engaging very well with Miliband’s argument. If this counts as a political win, God help us all

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:34 am

It's Christmas time,
There's no need to pay your tax
At Christmas time
We get richer off disabled people's backs.
And in our world of plenty
We shouldn't have to pay our way
Put the burden on the poor at Christmas time!

So say a prayer,
A prayer for those in SW1
At Christmas time, my house has only risen by 12.1 (percent)
There's a world outside the M25
But its full of dragons and ghosts
Do they know how expensive garages are in London?

Rinse the poor!
Let us off without paying our tax!

Rinse the poor!
Let us off without paying our tax!

Here's to us in our three storey converted mews
Here's to them in their tenements and second hand shoes
Do they know how much cocaine costs today?

Rinse the poor!
Let us off without paying our tax!

[Repeat to Fade]

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:35 am

adam wrote:On the 'no by-elections within six months' convention point - I can't find it anywhere other than Carswell's speech. There was a by-election in February 1997 just a couple of months before the general election.

Wirral South, which fell vacant in early November '96 when the sitting MP died. More than six months before the *last possible* GE date (late May '97)

Two seats where the incumbents died in early 1997 (Meriden and Don Valley) were not filled until the GE.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:49 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tish wrote:
pk1 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-n ... ge-4646673

Myleene Klass is worth £11 million!!!!

My entire knowledge of her is that she was once in an X-Factor style pop band about 15 years ago (which is no long term money spinner if you don't write the songs). Then she presented CD:UK for a few months in its dying, post Ant & Dec days. I thought she was one of those D List celebs who scrapes by from getting married every couple of years and selling the pics to OK magazine. What on earth has she been doing in the past few years to amass such a fortune?
Adverts.

If Labour are going to task success, where's the incentive for British people to get off their arses, roll up their sleeves and shower in a white bikini on I'm a Celebrity?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:52 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Just because it's good to hear the views of decent people ... I hope there are many more like this. (No, I'm not imagining there will be a mass boycott of Sports Direct - too much to hope for. But I hope there are some comments being left on their Facebook page or product reviews.)
Let's face it, Sports Direct isn't a difficult place to boycott, it's a depressing shopping experience before you even get into the ethics.

It's places like Tesco and Amazon I have trouble with, it's so hard to avoid them. I have to drive 4 times as far to the local independent Co-op to avoid Tesco, I just can't justify the trip every time. And then there's Amazon. We drove 40 miles recently to buy a tent from an independent retailer to avoid using Amazon but with Christmas coming up I've just caved and now I have to feel guilty about contributing to their tax-avoiding, poor employment practice induced profits.

What we need is a government committed to stamping out poor, exploitative employment practices and closing tax loopholes. Hmm....I wonder if there's a party that's pledging to do such things? Labour have the right policies and the right leader. I believe the media is wrong in their analysis of why they're not doing that well in the polls. The truth is that 35 years of Thatcherite greed and individualism has eroded our ability to act as a society and make choices based on what's best for everyone rather than just ourselves. People don't like tax avoidance and zero hours contracts but they do like the convenience and cheap prices that these companies offer. They, erroneously in my opinion, believe there is a heavy price to be paid for being 'fair'. Labour need to show how that isn't necessarily the case. It's a tall order, especially how you help those who can't afford housing with lower prices and rents, without hurting those who are already on the housing ladder, but if Labour can resolve these conundrums, they would probably attract wider support.
I'm also in the position where if I want people to buy my books, I have to promote Amazon as it's by far the easiest (and usually cheapest) place for people to get them. There's a whole other argument about Amazon's domination of publishing, but I make little enough money out of a lot of work as it is. Waterstones don't want to know unless you can shift units JK Rowling style, and there are precious few other games in town.

Amazon is a godsend to me.
As you know,my daughter is autistic.She is also incredibly fussy,won't watch tv etc.
So,when she badly wants the 1985 Sleeping Beauty filmed at Covent Garden ballet,where else do I find it?On Amazon,£122 new(yikes)and £18.75 used.Same for The Nutcracker filmed around that time,The Kirov ballets version of whatever..you get me here?
And when I can get hold of a book or dvd for 1p it's much cheaper than driving to town with her,parking the car and maybe finding it in a charity shop.
Anyway,morning all.Just about to look at my bank balance to see how much I can donate to poor,sad,multi millionaire Klass to help pay her mansion tax.I mean,be fair,£250 a month?That's almost double my council tax for my £42,500.00 house.She'll be wearing her dresses twice now if we don't chip in.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 11:59 am

DonutHingeParty wrote:It's Christmas time,
There's no need to pay your tax
At Christmas time
We get richer off disabled people's backs.
And in our world of plenty
We shouldn't have to pay our way
Put the burden on the poor at Christmas time!

So say a prayer,
A prayer for those in SW1
At Christmas time, my house has only risen by 12.1 (percent)
There's a world outside the M25
But its full of dragons and ghosts
Do they know how expensive garages are in London?

Rinse the poor!
Let us off without paying our tax!

Rinse the poor!
Let us off without paying our tax!

Here's to us in our three storey converted mews
Here's to them in their tenements and second hand shoes
Do they know how much cocaine costs today?

Rinse the poor!
Let us off without paying our tax!

[Repeat to Fade]

Brilliant !

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 12:12 pm

adam wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:Yet in Daily Telegraph land...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... n-tax.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Singer Myleene Klass ‘wipes the floor’ with Ed Miliband over mansion tax
Singer Myleene Klass went 'full Paxman' on the Labour leader during a TV debate in a stunning annihilation of his mansion tax policies
Andrew Sparrow's comment on the guardian daily politics

On Twitter this morning there are claims Myleene Klass demolished Ed Miliband on the subject of the mansion tax. Quite why is a mystery. Having watched the exchange, she just sounded like a shouty celeb not engaging very well with Miliband’s argument. If this counts as a political win, God help us all

Hope for Sparrow yet. As for the risible Telegraph piece .....

I succumbed, for the first time in weeks, and took a peep at Sparrow's blog (shan't be doing it again, still a trollfest and utter waste of time) and I noticed Notso had, predictably, made a similar "Miliband looked bewildered" comment; well, I may be Partisan ®, but it seemed to me his look was one of embarrassment for the specyable Klass was making of herself, and politeness in not interrupting her (as she was doing, constantly) to make her aware of what utter garbage she was uttering. But I appreciate manners and class are things the Right have problems with, so no surprise that both the Telegraph and Notso are so confused.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 12:14 pm

On a lighter note, anybody else having fun with the YouGov Profiler?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 12:16 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
adam wrote:
Andrew Sparrow's comment on the guardian daily politics

On Twitter this morning there are claims Myleene Klass demolished Ed Miliband on the subject of the mansion tax. Quite why is a mystery. Having watched the exchange, she just sounded like a shouty celeb not engaging very well with Miliband’s argument. If this counts as a political win, God help us all
And that's what stands for political debate in the UK in 2014. God help us all.

Unfortunately Andrew's measured opinion is contrary to the Guardian in general which already has two, yes two!, articles on this already. I daren't venture btl. I can already imagine how the very same people who lecture poor people on how they shouldn't have children if they can't afford to keep them, will be applying the exact inverse logic to rich people who can't afford to keep their ridiculously expensive homes. ie. the rest of us should help subsidise them and their lavish lifestyle, because, you know, a mansion's for life, not just for Christmas.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 12:20 pm

Tish wrote:
pk1 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-n ... ge-4646673

Myleene Klass is worth £11 million!!!!

My entire knowledge of her is that she was once in an X-Factor style pop band about 15 years ago (which is no long term money spinner if you don't write the songs). Then she presented CD:UK for a few months in its dying, post Ant & Dec days. I thought she was one of those D List celebs who scrapes by from getting married every couple of years and selling the pics to OK magazine. What on earth has she been doing in the past few years to amass such a fortune?

She has a range of baby/toddler products that are sold through Mothercare.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 12:22 pm

Michael Sylvain's comment about Klass is worth reposting from t'other place:

OneButtonMonkey wrote:It’s with a heavy heart that we should all turn away from speeches about trivialities like immigration and instead focus on some profound and critical news of genuinely earthshattering import to us all. After all, many of the regulars here are deeply concerned about social justice, about fairness and about how we can, together, create the kind of society that acts as a beacon for justice and dignity to the world. And that’s why I’m sure everyone will be as distraught as me at the clarion call for decency emitted by polical philosopher and marvel of the age Mylene Klass. Only her wise words can save us all from ruin.

Poor Mylene has generously and benevolently taken time out of her busy schedule hawking mince pies for high street shops and smiling vacuously on daytime TV interviews that are so shallow they’d make graphene blush in order to issue an urgent and crucial warning about the dangers of a Labour government and its plan to introduce a mansion tax. How terrible it is that the evil Ed Miliband is suggesting levying a mansion tax on such worthy, leading lights as unassuming, millionaire warblesmith Mylene Klass. It’s not her fault she lives a pampered life of the kind of luxury that only lots and lots of money can buy – and it’s horrible that a politician has mistakenly said that people with more money might be able to afford to pay more money in return from the loads of money they have – that’s not how maths works, is it? That's communism! So thank heavens that we have people like her to aspire to and listen to over matters of taxation.

Mylene’s thesis – to call it any less would be a grave insult to the depth of her argument - has two vital prongs:

1) Poor millionaires in their big homes that they bought with their six- and seven-figure salaries can’t possibly afford to pay any tax on things because, like, they can’t. And she’s right, isn’t she? I mean, it’s not like millionaire pop stars simply hire a number of accountants to stick as much cash as they can offshore to avoid tax while they look the other way, is it? Being paid lots of money for fat fuck all is a full time job and it’s people who don’t have a job that we should be taxing, obviously. And all those apologies they have to mouth their way through when they’re found out really get in the way of the time you need to produce even more valuable cultural artefacts like adverts and interviews about dieting tips. And it’s not like, when they’re not contributing to the advertising pressure to overspend at Christmas that is part of the reason why debt spirals out of control each year, they could, I don’t know, realise some of their enormous assets to pay their taxes if it turned out they couldn’t afford them? These houses don’t pay for themselves, do they? It would be unfair to expect those who earn the most to live within their means because of something or other to do with envy. It’s everyone else who must budget on pennies when they’re not walking five miles to a food bank.

2) The mansion tax won’t raise any money anyway, says Mylene. And she’s clearly right about this, too, and is in no way directly contradicting the lie about not being able to afford it by immediately saying it won’t actually amount to much money.

Mylene’s public spirited bleating about having to pay some tax in return for living in incredibly expensive houses bought with pots and pots of barely-taxed cash has opened my eyes to the injustice of expecting those with most to pay stuff to the place where they live and to the people that buy their witless, ear-curdling product. I mean, it isn’t the avoidance of tax by corporations and millionaire celebrities that has created our problems. It’s the selfish refusal to be able to do things by disabled people that has really ruined our country. When I look at the problems we face, thanks to Mylene, I now realise it’s malnourished children in families that self-centredly can’t afford both food and heating who can afford to pay more. If we should be taxing anyone more, it’s those with no money – or food banks – not well-to-do celebrities like Mylene, who are the only people with the sense to see through our social problems and unselfishly point out how the richest already give us the most just by existing. We should give them more money and demand nothing in return, shouldn’t we? It’s people with no shoes living in flats that have an extra room that are bankrupting us all. It wasn’t banks and politicians that destroyed this country – it was poor people breathing air and drinking water as if everyone should be allowed to do that without paying tax for it.

How would we survive without celebrities to make sense of our lives, eh? The mind boggles.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:04 pm

@DonutHingeParty

"You can't just point at necessary cost saving rooms for care ,deem them spare and penalise them"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Seats could be left vacant if more Tory MPs defect to Ukip before election
William Hague says it will be for parliament to decide whether byelection is necessary in event of further defections
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-election
How late could a sitting MP leave it to jump ship ....? Wouldn't there have to be a cut off point to give sufficient time before the election for another candidate to be found for their deserted party?

I wonder if they'll just slide any late jumpers into marginals and tell the UKIP PPC to hop it. They've already done that and it didn't seem to do much damage.
If all the legwork's been done, and UKIP supporters continue to be thick as two short planks, I doubt there'll be much of a problem.

Post by **adam** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:19 pm

Miliband tweeting in reply to Klaas

Here’s why our NHS needs a mansion tax. It’s Pure and Simple.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:20 pm

Labour's actual proposals regarding the Mansion Tax

http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/six ... ansion-tax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:27 pm

Judicial review proceedings start tomorrow -'re Sanctuary rooms and bedroom tax

http://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/art ... olence-vic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:31 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 10m10 minutes ago
12% of CON voters tell Opinium that LAB's opposition to an EU referendum is a reason to vote for EdM's party.

Funny really. Those who hate the EU and want a referendum will lean towards UKIP
The Conservatives can't make up their mind.
Labour are Pro EU.

Doesn't take a genius to see what will happen.