Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th November 2021

[refitman]

Morning all.

[tinyclanger2]

Hello.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Hello.

In answer to your question in the early hours - yes it does appear that anti-Brexit sentiment has increased a bit, but not so much that we will be in a fit state to hold another referendum to rejoin (let alone win it by the decisive margin that would be required) any time soon.

Until it is seen by enough people to have clearly failed - and more older pro-Brexit voters dying off will help there - we are a bit stuck.

[Willow904]

Re Brexit I think it also has to be remembered that there is a huge difference between rejoining compared to not leaving in the first place.
Which is why those behind Brexit were so desperate to get it over the line, regardless of the damage it would do to the country, and worry about the details later. They knew it would be hard to reverse.
The opposition now has no choice but to start from where we currently are and personally for me rejoining the EU wouldn't be a priority at this point. We need to improve our relations with the EU as best we can, of course, but we really need to concentrate on the domestic mess the Tories have got us in, which is huge. Campaigning to rejoin the EU will use time and energy better spent elsewhere on things like corruption, climate change and living standards - areas in which Labour should be in a strong position to appear a better bet than the Tories.
Also, look at it from the EU side, our leaving has solved some problems for them. All members are now either in the Eurozone or joining, the imbalance of our being half in/half out on advantageous terms is now sorted for them. We'll only be allowed back if we agree to join fully, which will be even harder to convince the public of than simply retaining the good deal we had before, once you start getting into the details of what rejoining actually involves.
Eventually we may be in the position to negotiate a bespoke deal, like Switzerland, but we've got a lot of damage to repair first before that's even remotely possible. Which is why Labour is very sensible not to make promises on Europe, they could be hard to keep compared to, say, making promises on tackling corruption or climate change which would be much more straightforward to deliver and have great potential to improve lives.

[tinyclanger2]

There's a lot of room between acting like Brexit isn't an issue and trying to get back in.

[PorFavor]

There's a lot of room between acting like Brexit isn't an issue and trying to get back in.

Agreed!

[AnatolyKasparov]

There's some room, but I'm on the more cautious side regarding this.

[Willow904]

Brexit is good for the Tories, though, and shit for Labour. It's not surprising they don't want to talk about it.

Corruption, on the other hand, is bad for the Tories and plays to Starmer's strengths.

Also, I feel climate change is up for grabs at the moment, Labour need to position themselves so they are more in tune with the public on green issues than the Tories. Particularly they need to cash in on the way current government has sleep-walked us into an energy crisis with their lack of strategic energy planning. People are going to be really angry when the bills start landing on the doormat this winter, we are very exposed to the wholesale price spike compared to other countries.

[tinyclanger2]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 1636804342

Good for Barnsley. We need to see more kindness and decency being acknowledged and valued.

[AnatolyKasparov]

No need to worry everybody, Seb Payne has done a safari to Ashfield (the usual business of vox-popping pensioners in a town centre during weekdays) and has thus conclusively demonstrated that nobody cares about Tory corruption and the polls are wrong

[gilsey]

for me rejoining the EU wouldn't be a priority at this point. We need to improve our relations with the EU as best we can, of course, but we really need to concentrate on the domestic mess the Tories have got us in, which is huge. Campaigning to rejoin the EU will use time and energy better spent elsewhere on things like corruption, climate change and living standards - areas in which Labour should be in a strong position to appear a better bet than the Tories.

I don't think there's any danger of Labour campaigning to rejoin, I'm more worried that the whole Shadow cabinet is stuck fighting the last war, on anti-semitism as well as Brexit, while the media and the public have moved on. They need to be a lot lighter on their feet.

The domestic mess, as it affects most of us, is inextricably linked to our relationship with the EU though, Labour really need to be thinking about how to move forward. Can't leave it until the next GE is 6 months away.

[gilsey]

eg Starmer's talking about, in effect, buying British as part of the solution, but Brexit has almost destroyed our fishing industry and is starting on agriculture. Also it hardly helps with labour shortages. Need some better ideas.

[PorFavor]

@gilsey

Labour probably isn't best served by going full tilt for "rejoin" but needs to keep subtly niggling away (whilst "Brexit" is still toward the forefront of people's minds) that leaving the EU is at the root of a lot of our problems.

[tinyclanger2]

Quite

[frog222]

@Gilsey 6.30pm

I don't think there's any danger of Labour campaigning to rejoin, I'm more worried that the whole Shadow cabinet is stuck fighting the last war, on anti-semitism as well as Brexit, while the media and the public have moved on. They need to be a lot lighter on their feet.

I don't think genuine 'antisemitism' has anything to do with it. Anti-Leftism is the new religion, and they have no problem with Jewish activists being a prime target.

[gilsey]

Yes, so unnecessary. Why do they think they need to do that when everyone else has moved on?

Young people about to get shafted again by the change to student loan repayments, but it wouldn't do for Labour to try to attract rather than repel them.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Queen not turning up to the Cenotaph after all, hmmm.......

[refitman]

Remember when Jeremy Corbyn did... anything.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Wonder if the BBC will "accidentally" doctor their coverage again, like they did two years ago.

[frog222]

So when was this photo taken ?
(I thought the ceremony was today ? )

[frog222]

[AnatolyKasparov]

Going back to my earlier comment, "sprained back"?? Do they seriously expect anybody to believe that?

[gilsey]

Some of us are old enough to remember Michael Foot's 'donkey jacket'.

[gilsey]

If you were Priti Patel, god forbid, would you pick that particular shot of yourself at the cenotaph for twitter?
The notorious smirk on display. Ghastly woman.

[AnatolyKasparov]

No sign of Sky on here for a few days now.