Friday 21st November 2014

[MorganLlan]

Whilst I understand some people being angry with Emily Thornberry, my own view is that she is, at worst, naive.

You could have tried to have a kind of nuanced argument with the MSM who were screeching and sharpening their pencils. I don't know Emily Thornberry and so I can't say for definite what she was thinking other than here is a house with 3 England flags - and a white van. Since I don't know her, I am unable to say that she was making any kind of comment about it, and definitely not that she was sneering at the "white working class", let alone the people/person living in the house. After all she couldn't know who lived there. It was others who made the assumption, which suggests that this is something which is in their own minds - along the lines of "Through the Keyhole" - "who lives in house like this? Flags, big white van, Oh yeah, white working class, it must be Dan the shaven headed white van man". They would all have looked a bit silly if the occupants had turned out to be a married couple of football supporting Afro Carribean women.

In truth, yesterday, on that day of all days, neither you, nor I or anyone, including Ed Milliband could have won that argument. I find in life sometimes it's better to choose your battles and in politics even more so. Emily Thornberry will understand this. She's been at the front line for long enough. The only way to stop the story dead in its tracks was for her to fall on her sword. If she didn't then Ed would have been hounded by the media constantly asking him why he didn't sack her, or if he would apologise, in the same way that Brown was over the McBride episode. It may be that some find this disloyal or weak, in giving in to the bullying media.


(And whilst that is in my mind - how many among us wonder how a personal email which was written supposedly from inside the government secure internet ended up with a certain blogger? And why was there far more fuss about the offending email having been sent from a government pc/email account than there has been over the sending of official government emails with a certain government department using a private email account?)

I have to say I am a little surprised at the descriptions of Islington - it must be a consituency of huge contrasts because the bits I have seen are rather less "posh" that it is being suggested.

You've just jogged my memory....

We never did get to see Gove's Mrs Blurt emails did we.
The Tories have ignored so many misdeeds and scandals it would fill a book.

Exactly. Anyway. Unfortunately for those of us of a Welsh persuasion, I don't think the mood will be lifted tomorrow when Wales play the All Blacks. I will be watching though and as always shouting on the team in red. Especially George North.

Keep your chins up people and take care. x

In fact, when I think of it, supporting Wales at Rugby is a lot like supporting Labour. It's always a battle and it feels like the world is against us sometimes.

[citizenJA]

StephenDolan -

I'm rather looking forward to the Autumn Statement. Less than 6 months until the election, deficit practically eliminated after "weathering the storm", march of the makers has rebalanced the economy and the precious AAA rating intact.

Peston's take on the latest figures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30144813" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the link in your post above, the final lines of the article I've posted below. I don't understand the author's final paragraph at all. Could you or someone else explain what it means, please?

But, in spite of austerity, public spending was 2.3% up - due to a 2.7% rise in social benefits, supposedly mostly pension increases, and a 12.4% jump in capital spending.

Now it is possible that the widening deficit will suddenly narrow again in the coming weeks and months.

But a significant overshoot is more likely.

And that would be an explosive new element for the imminent general-election battle, because it implies any new government would have to immediately raise taxes or slash spending even more than current plans.

(my bold)

My first thought was, "oh, please go to the devil telling everyone what any new government would immediately have to to do."

Incredible numbers from the recent ONS data - Osborne & the government he's part of have no place to hide at all. Their leadership is shockingly awful; every report coming out of the National Audit Office (NAO) & the ONS, for example, is documentation of Tory-led governmental failure.

[rebeccariots2]

Confirmation, if we needed it, of utter madness and mayhem in the air ... someone BTL on this article http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... s-to-ukip/ends their comment with:

and Caroline Lucas should also be considering her position as she has a lot in common with Nige and UKIP.

I noted that Suzanne Evans - Vice Chair of Ukip - when discussing potential future defections to them on TV last night stressed that they don't want to get known for just having ex Tory MPs - being a party for disaffected Tories - and so are hoping there will be a Labour defection to show the breadth of their appeal (I'm summarising her spiel here ... easy). Apparently Nigel has been talking with one or two of them.

From the Speccie article:

Of course, it might not be a Tory. There is a rumour that Ukip thinks it might be able to lure Austin Mitchell over from Labour. He retires at the next election anyway but his Great Grimsby seat is already a good prospect for Ukip and the debacle over Emily Thornberry’s White Van Man tweet would be a useful trigger for Mitchell.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Been trying to look into the Green Party Citizen's Income.

Seeing they're aghast at any restriction on EU migrants' credits or benefits, I take it that any EU citizen can come to Britain for a subsidized holiday, whenever they want?

[ephemerid]

The Welsh dragon roaring once more and this is a great place to invest and grow.

So says David Cameron, only a few short months Offa's Dyke was the line between life and death.

Excuse me while I

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/b ... on-8150112" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OGRFG has made a complete tit of himself yet again over the reason why he thinks the Welsh Dragon is roaring once more (not that it ever stopped) and today he has shared with a breathlessly waiting world that "Welsh rail electrification will be HUGE"!!!!!!!

In July 2009, Labour got started on plans for funding of £1 Billion from central government to electrify rail from London to Swansea.
In Nov.2010, the coalition put all the plans "on hold".

Then the rows commenced -
Row 1: putting the project on hold for 3 months;
Row 2: deciding to electrify only to Cardiff;
Row 3: changing the plan again to electrify to Swansea;
Row 4: long delays in the work due to no money;
Row 5: the biggie - refusing to pay for any of it and the Welsh Secretary David Jones denying that Westminster agreed to pay;
Row 6: David Jones accuses the Welsh government of putting scheme at risk by not paying for it and resigns soon afterwards;
Row 7: new Welsh Secretary Stephen Crabb promises new agreement on funding.

And finally - no, the Westminster government will not pay the £500 Million projected cost, they'll pay £230 Million.
For refusing to honour the original agreement set up by Labour 5 years ago, Carwyn Jones has demanded that the Welsh government have total control of the franchise and keep all the profits it makes in perpetuity.

And now, Our Oleaginous Glorious Yarn-spinning Credit-claiming Fishpointer General has saved Wales!

I have it on excellent authority that dragons are not fond of fatty food - this is due to my local butchers' Red Dragon Sausages being made entirely of dragon (and I know this is true because I haven't seen one round these parts lately) and they are very lean.
This factoid is a bit of a disappointment to me, because I was hoping that a roaring Welsh dragon would shoot a quantity of very hot flames in order to Barbecue OOGYCFG prior to munching him up as a nice little snack. Seems even reptiles won't touch him.....

[Rebecca]

I am getting so tired of the constant whining about Ed/Labour from people,who,if they have the sense to see what the coalition govt is doing to this country,are unable to then have the sense to be supportive of the only party who will be able to replace them in 2015.
No politician can be perfect,no party will have policies which suit everybody.Get over it and look at the big picture.
I've been thinking this since 2010.Labour had just been dumped by the electorate,many people voted libdem instead of Labour for example,then about 2 seconds after the rose garden love-in,the whining started.Like Ed is supposed to be superman and come to our rescue.People got the bloody govt they deserved if you ask me,five years of it.
Instead of Labour ripping itself apart,Ed has pulled them together.
During the referendum it was Labour that managed to prevent a yes vote,which would have been economically disasterous for Scotland,and now they are being threatened with a wipe-out in Scotland in thanks.
There are 6 months to go before the election and I think it's high time labour supporters stopped moaning and consider the good things that the party has done this past four years.
This is a general rant,so ephe,don't start with the 'are you referring to me' like you did to Anatoly,because if I was I would have replied to your post specifically.
edited to add,I'm also sick of the Ed should say this/do that/look like this etc.Anybody who thinks they could do the job better should maybe get into politics and see how well they do.

THIS ^^^



(Can you post up the details of those raspberry things you posted about the other day please ? They sounded delicious & anything easy to produce is just fine by me )

Creme glacee aux fruits

300 ml thick jersey or other cream (thick double cream is fine btw,and I used 284ml as that is the size sold)
225g ripe soft fruit
75g castor sugar(I use vanilla sugar as I always have a jar for cooking)
450g loagf tin or whatever,I used silicone heart shape cake moulds


1)whip cream until thick
2)warm fruit in a warm oven for 20 mins to make juice flow
3)crush fruit and work through a fine seive
4)stir in sugar until it disolves
5)stir in cream
you can add bits of fruit if you don't want a smooth icecream.

6)freeze,it needs to come out for 30 mins or so before serving with.........

Sauce a la Framboise

225g raspberries
2 tablespoons castor sugar
juice of 1 lemon

1)put rasps in a wide bowl,sprinkle with sugar and leave at room temperature for an hour or so.
2)bruise the fruit ,until it's as lumpy as you like it.
3)stir in lemon juice


use fresh or freeze,I froze it in 6 portions so each heart has it's own portion of sauce,handy if you're serving one or two people.


The lemon juice makes the sauce a little tart and is perfect with the creaminess of the creme glacee.

You don't need any fancy ice cream machines for this recipe.

[rebeccariots2]

Listen up peeps. Gove interview on R4 PM in a moment with Eddie Mair ... it already promises to be sublime ... clip of Mair asking Gove why Cameron is always losing ... Gove stuttering says David Cameron is one of the greatest politicians of our age ... Mair says with an air of breathless incredulity 'of our age, really?'

[citizenJA]

Creme glacee aux fruits & Sauce a la Framboise

Dragons love this food

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Electrification of Welsh railways??!! You mean this isn't typical of Welsh rolling stock? Another dream dashed on the rocks of sad reality.

[rebeccariots2]

I love Eddie Mair!


He keeps coming back with another list of things Cameron has lost and ends with 'Why can't he win?'

Oh please tell me there's going to be an audioboo of this interview.

Editing to say:

I have to correct myself - Gove actually says David Cameron is the 'standout' politician of our age. (But he can't say what timespan qualifies as 'our age' when quizzed).

[ohsocynical]

Listen up peeps. Gove interview on R4 PM in a moment with Eddie Mair ... it already promises to be sublime ... clip of Mair asking Gove why Cameron is always losing ... Gove stuttering says David Cameron is one of the greatest politicians of our age ... Mair says with an air of breathless incredulity 'of our age, really?'

Just supposing he was right, it doesn't say much for the age we live in does it.

[ohsocynical]

Electrification of Welsh railways??!! You mean this isn't typical of Welsh rolling stock? Another dream dashed on the rocks of sad reality.

[onebuttonmonkey]

Well well well, this one sailed past me. Burying bad news and all:

George Osborne Uses Ukip And Rochester By-Election To Hide Humiliating EU Climbdown

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/11 ... _hp_ref=tw

George Osborne has quietly dropped his legal fight against the EU's bank bonus cap while attention is diverted on the Rochester by-election.

The Chancellor confirmed his politically embarassing climbdown in a letter to Bank of England governor Mark Carney, in which he wrote: "It now looks clear that there are minimal prospects for success with our legal challenge, so we will no longer pursue it."

Elsewhere, on the radio, Gove described our glorious ronsealed fishpointer as "the most standout politician of our age." Words actually fail.

[gilsey]

What I do know is that the purchaser provider split is a bloody good thing, and it has already been broken by Lansley.

You do not want the commissioner providing the services.

Shall we go with A, B or my crappy in house service C.

(Option C is being favoured by certain GPs).

Don't forget option D - the service the GPs own and make money out of.

People get hung up on the language of 'purchaser/provider split' - even the NHA Party. What it basically means, as you suggest, is that you have a different set of people assessing the needs of the community, deciding what health services can meet those needs and supporting those health services being put in place from the people who provide the services.

During my time in the NHS I have seen a lot of providers thinking they are doing the absolute best they can for the money, whereas for any number of reasons that might not be true. Letting the same people decide and provide is a good way to get a 'one size fits all', gaps in provision, and services that don't change even if they are out of date.

I'm a big fan of commissioning. It had reached a pretty high level in 2010 when Lansley buggered it all up with the stroke of a pen.

I agree entirely with that last sentence. But it took 20 years to get there.

I agree that this

you have a different set of people assessing the needs of the community, deciding what health services can meet those needs and supporting those health services being put in place from the people who provide the services.

is what it should mean. But I don't think it did mean that, initially.
The internal market attached monetary values to the services (1) so that 'the invisible hand' of supply and demand would allocate resources to the appropriate services* and (2) it was a prerequisite for privatisation because each service then had its own income stream and could therefore be hived off to the private sector.

Point (2) still stands. Point (1) was gradually overtaken by common sense until we got to the PCTs in 2010.
And no-one will ever convince me that it didn't increase administration costs.

* I believeTM that they believed that.

[ohsocynical]

What I do know is that the purchaser provider split is a bloody good thing, and it has already been broken by Lansley.

You do not want the commissioner providing the services.

Shall we go with A, B or my crappy in house service C.

(Option C is being favoured by certain GPs).

Don't forget option D - the service the GPs own and make money out of.

People get hung up on the language of 'purchaser/provider split' - even the NHA Party. What it basically means, as you suggest, is that you have a different set of people assessing the needs of the community, deciding what health services can meet those needs and supporting those health services being put in place from the people who provide the services.

During my time in the NHS I have seen a lot of providers thinking they are doing the absolute best they can for the money, whereas for any number of reasons that might not be true. Letting the same people decide and provide is a good way to get a 'one size fits all', gaps in provision, and services that don't change even if they are out of date.

I'm a big fan of commissioning. It had reached a pretty high level in 2010 when Lansley buggered it all up with the stroke of a pen.

I agree entirely with that last sentence. But it took 20 years to get there.

I agree that this

you have a different set of people assessing the needs of the community, deciding what health services can meet those needs and supporting those health services being put in place from the people who provide the services.

is what it should mean. But I don't think it did mean that, initially.
The internal market attached monetary values to the services (1) so that 'the invisible hand' of supply and demand would allocate resources to the appropriate services* and (2) it was a prerequisite for privatisation because each service then had its own income stream and could therefore be hived off to the private sector.

Point (2) still stands. Point (1) was gradually overtaken by common sense until we got to the PCTs in 2010.
And no-one will ever convince me that it didn't increase administration costs.

* I believeTM that they believed that.

Are you old enough to remember Virginia Bottomley when she was Maggie's Minister for Health?
I used to watch her on TV when she was shutting down mental health facilities. I never used to swear in those days. She was the first woman I ever called a cow.

[letsskiptotheleft]

[youtube]K4z-M_hn_0c[/youtube]


I have been on that train, Arriva Wales Trains it goes by these days.

Someone please post the mauling of Gove by Eddie Mair, when they come across it.

[ephemerid]

Electrification of Welsh railways??!! You mean this isn't typical of Welsh rolling stock? Another dream dashed on the rocks of sad reality.

Ivor the Engine of the Llantisilly Railway Traction Company, with Jones the Steam and Evans the Song.

Accompanied by Idris the Dragon who not only sang in the choir but used to cook fish and chips for them with his breath.

Marvellous stuff!

Best Welsh names for a shop I've seen so far was an ice-cream place in Caernarfon - Jones the Cones.

If anyone's got any more, please share - I love that sort of thing.

[rebeccariots2]

Electrification of Welsh railways??!! You mean this isn't typical of Welsh rolling stock? Another dream dashed on the rocks of sad reality.

Ivor the Engine of the Llantisilly Railway Traction Company, with Jones the Steam and Evans the Song.

Accompanied by Idris the Dragon who not only sang in the choir but used to cook fish and chips for them with his breath.

Marvellous stuff!

Best Welsh names for a shop I've seen so far was an ice-cream place in Caernarfon - Jones the Cones.

If anyone's got any more, please share - I love that sort of thing.

I was passed by a van in our village the other day which had 'Idris the Sweep' emblazoned down its sides - with a nice pic of chimney with a brush sticking out of its top.

[ephemerid]

Re, NHS commissioning - when it works, it's fantastic.

My last job till I got sick in 2009 was running a county-wide project to set up networks for parents/children/concerned others of people who misuse substances. I was part of a DAAT which, unusually, was entirely funded by the NHS (many are part-funded by the Home Office)

My commissioning manager was brilliant; he worked really hard for me to get some families into treatment with their addicts, which was unusual at the time. He knew exactly what I wanted, and though obviously I couldn't have everything I wished for, he did his best to get me the best possible deal on care for them all within a very limited budget.
I had a colleague who specialised in harm reduction, and the commissioner bloke helped him to get a deal on clean works for users at the drop-in centres, first aid and Naloxone (antidote) training for addicts and their families, and safe storage lock-boxes for Methadone users who had kids at home.
He'd shuffle the budget about to get the best deal, and relied on us as the experts to tell him what we needed and he didn't quibble - if we wanted it, he'd try to get it, and if he couldn't, he'd explain why. Terrific bloke.

When the PCT was disbanded, the whole team went. I wasn't replaced when I had to go; 3 of my ex-colleagues, my line manager, the head honcho, all gone. The commissioning guy got sent somewhere, but has since left the NHS.

What a waste.

[danesclose]

[youtube]K4z-M_hn_0c[/youtube]


I have been on that train, Arriva Wales Trains it goes by these days.

Someone please post the mauling of Gove by Eddie Mair, when they come across it.

Here you go

https://audioboom.com/boos/2672468-davi ... of-our-age

[yahyah]

Clegg's been very quiet, haven't seen any comments from him about the Libs appalling result last night.

[letsskiptotheleft]

Thank you danesclose, I must have said ''Hah'' at least six times during that.

Not least the end bit when Mair brought up Cameron's ''I will fight so that Reckless's fat arse won't sit back down on a green bench''

I'd shut up if I was him.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ha ha. From LDV.

Adrian Sanders 21st Nov '14 - 11:16am
Please send money and books of stamps now to all our held seats if you can’t visit personally or tele canvass from home. Thank you. We have 50 plus by-elections to fight with incumbent MPs to protect a Parliamentary bridgehead after the next election. Although the rebuilding of the Party will have to be from the grassroots rather than the Westminster Village if it is to be successful. There’s a lot of work ahead and I am very grateful to those LDV friends who are already helping.

Tsar Nicolas 21st Nov '14 - 11:27am
Adrian,

If you and your colleagues cannot take the necessary steps to sack the leader, why on earth should anybody, member or supporter, attempt to help?

This is a real, genuine question, not a troll hit.

[pk1]

Clegg's been very quiet, haven't seen any comments from him about the Libs appalling result last night.

Said the same thing to my OH not long ago.

Usual sneer from Stephen Tall on LDV though:

For Labour it was a grim, if predictable, night

You can just about hear the LDs minds shouting at us:

never mind LD troubles -->> look, a squirrel

[yahyah]

Ha ha. From LDV.

Adrian Sanders 21st Nov '14 - 11:16am
Please send money and books of stamps now to all our held seats if you can’t visit personally or tele canvass from home. Thank you. We have 50 plus by-elections to fight with incumbent MPs to protect a Parliamentary bridgehead after the next election. Although the rebuilding of the Party will have to be from the grassroots rather than the Westminster Village if it is to be successful. There’s a lot of work ahead and I am very grateful to those LDV friends who are already helping.

Tsar Nicolas 21st Nov '14 - 11:27am
Adrian,

If you and your colleagues cannot take the necessary steps to sack the leader, why on earth should anybody, member or supporter, attempt to help?

This is a real, genuine question, not a troll hit.

& Paul Barker is his usual wacky self there...
''The General Election will be primarily a struggle between serious Parties of Government,
Parties of Protest like UKIP, Labour & The Greens will be will be pushed back to the margins.''

He thinks it'll be a two horse race between the Tories and Lib Dems ?

[yahyah]

Night all.

Thanks for your posts.
Have recovered from the gloom of this morning, hope others have too.

& just remember it could be worse, you could be a Lib Dem.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Stephen Tall going along with all the Thornberry bollocks.

[letsskiptotheleft]

Ha ha. From LDV.

Adrian Sanders 21st Nov '14 - 11:16am
Please send money and books of stamps now to all our held seats if you can’t visit personally or tele canvass from home. Thank you. We have 50 plus by-elections to fight with incumbent MPs to protect a Parliamentary bridgehead after the next election. Although the rebuilding of the Party will have to be from the grassroots rather than the Westminster Village if it is to be successful. There’s a lot of work ahead and I am very grateful to those LDV friends who are already helping.

Tsar Nicolas 21st Nov '14 - 11:27am
Adrian,

If you and your colleagues cannot take the necessary steps to sack the leader, why on earth should anybody, member or supporter, attempt to help?

This is a real, genuine question, not a troll hit.

Just had an enjoyable 20 minutes reading that thread, few unintentional laughs there too.

[rebeccariots2]

Ha ha. From LDV.

Adrian Sanders 21st Nov '14 - 11:16am
Please send money and books of stamps now to all our held seats if you can’t visit personally or tele canvass from home. Thank you. We have 50 plus by-elections to fight with incumbent MPs to protect a Parliamentary bridgehead after the next election. Although the rebuilding of the Party will have to be from the grassroots rather than the Westminster Village if it is to be successful. There’s a lot of work ahead and I am very grateful to those LDV friends who are already helping.

Tsar Nicolas 21st Nov '14 - 11:27am
Adrian,

If you and your colleagues cannot take the necessary steps to sack the leader, why on earth should anybody, member or supporter, attempt to help?

This is a real, genuine question, not a troll hit.

& Paul Barker is his usual wacky self there...
''The General Election will be primarily a struggle between serious Parties of Government,
Parties of Protest like UKIP, Labour & The Greens will be will be pushed back to the margins.''

He thinks it'll be a two horse race between the Tories and Lib Dems ?

Snap yahyah - that was the comment that made me physically snort. He's a real piece of work. I note he hasn't responded to those who've picked him up on that particular flight of fantasy.

[refitman]

Night all.

Thanks for your posts.
Have recovered from the gloom of this morning, hope others have too.

& just remember it could be worse, you could be a Lib Dem.

'Night yahyah.


Just want to echo yahyah's thanks for all the great posts today. It's nice to see some positivity, when the media is so relentlessly depressing.

[rebeccariots2]

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 5m5 minutes ago
#Rochdale Labour Meeting have just endorsed my re-selection to fight the General Election next year - very pleased & proud. Thank you.

Oh wonderful news.

[citizenJA]

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 5m5 minutes ago
#Rochdale Labour Meeting have just endorsed my re-selection to fight the General Election next year - very pleased & proud. Thank you.

Oh wonderful news.

I've had a read of some comments below the line regarding Thornberry's resignation on a G article. Two or three really outstanding posts reminded me why I read there at all. I went through a couple hundred. A couple dozen were crazy; hatred - pure hatred.

[citizenJA]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... lting-away

The cocoa crisis: why the world’s stash of chocolate is melting away
It’s the world’s favourite sweet treat – and this week one of the industry’s biggest players warned that supplies could soon be running low. Guardian writers around the world report on the causes of the problem, from disease and crop failure to the rise of the chocolate crisp

Chocolate shortage story right next to

David Cameron: we will win back Rochester in general election
Prime minister says Conservatives are determined to regain seat from Ukip to ensure party remains in power after 2015 vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ction-ukip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rebeccariots2]

Maria Eagle talking a lot of sense on Any Questions this evening. Thank goodness Labour have got someone good on this particular programme.

[ErnstRemarx]

Sorry, I disagree. The meme that she put into operation is almost unbelievably toxic for the party.

But an apology would surely still have sufficed, if our MSM wasn't so poisonous.

But anyway.......if we want to do something useful instead of turning on each other, let's do everything we can to get that "selfie" of Nick Robinson with the fascist "Britain First" candidate at the Rochester count as widely known as possible - his "excuse" is that he didn't know who she was (even though she had a bloody big "CANDIDATE" badge on) but why should ignorance be a defence for him any more than the MSM allows it for politicians??

Live by the sword..........

I don't know.

First up, I don't give a hoot about the Thornberry tweet: as someone will have said better elsewhere, the manufactured outrage is completely out of touch with anything in my life (Csakagondamunka has been really good on this in the other place) but the panic of the reaction does demonstrate a certain out of touchness, too. I'd have been happy if they'd Dennis Skinnered the thing (especially because they don't seem to know what it was about the picture that had made her resignation necessary.... besides the fact there was a lot of fuss, they don't get the fuss) and called it for what it was but, as I say, I don't especially care. The whole bloody thing just makes me sick of the media and the enforced barriers on political discourse. And secondly, you'll all know I detest the one-dimensional roiling spin-engine that is Robinson - he's an agent of the news rather than a reporter of it, with all the stunning insight and startling vision of Andy Townsend, only remorselessly, toxically Tory.

But. Well, but for all that Robinson's part of the problems with the way politics is conducted, if it was wrong for Thornberry to have to resign over a stupid picture on social media, then why isn't it also wrong that he might have to resign for being involved in a stupid picture on social media? And if she shoouldn't have had to resign, why should he? Yes, he should've known better, but really, I don't doubt for one minute that a London-centric, elite establishment political editor is out of touch with full facial recognition of minority provincial racists. I also don't doubt that Thornberry didn't mean anything like what her tweet's been made into, so why should we respond to that indignity by perpetrating the same act on someone else, just because we don't like him as much as they don't like us? At best it makes us just as bad.

Robinson, if he's going to be sacked, should be sacked for the right reasons: bias being the primary one on the BBC. The same as Fox and Miller and Hunt and Gove and all the rest of them should have but usually didn't and then got to resign while denying there was any reason. We on the left (fans of Ed or not) do not beat the bastards by being just as bad as them but from the other direction. That only makes the bounds of what's acceptable and what the other lot can get inexplicably, resignation-demandingly pseudo-offended by even worse, even narrower.

It's a shame Labour didn't call it what it was but it's not really a huge deal and it'll vanish soon enough. It just marks - along with Mylene - the beginning of an onslaught. And that will require better media management whether they tough some things out or argue others of them away. But let's not become the thing we need to replace, eh? Robinson is what he is. A dumb photo that he should have known better than is the least of his offenses, and some of the outrage at that photo is as manufactured as that at the flag man. We're better than that.

</rant>

Apologies for wheeling in and mouthing off. This place is brilliant and I like to see all of your takes on what's happening. After the last week, I'm too tetchy, too, so, you know. The Sun's a filthy rag and Robinson a hack, but hey ho - we knew these were the terms. Now we need a smarter battleplan than the awful smear they're lobbing at us. Or several hundred more Dennis Skinners.

This, a thousand times, this. I'm not going to comment at length on what you've said except to the Alan Partridge phrase "Back of the net!".

No apologies accepted for brilliant and perceptive posts, and for the record I'd have said to Thornbury don't do it again, it's the sort of thing they'll beyond all recognition and then asked the meeja just what sort of image they have in their collective heads of people who drive white vans, festoon their houses with patriotic flags, vote Tory, are politically unaware to the nth degree and are into martial arts?

My answer is people who I'd avoid in real life, and if any hack pretended otherwise, I'd be all over their Facebook and LinkedIn accounts to show them just how hypocritical it is for wanky middle class reporters to pretend to be the friend of the proletariat, lumpen or otherwise.

Put up or fuck off basically. The press is vulnerable, and call them out and they will soon tone it down unless they want everyone to know about their double standards.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 5m5 minutes ago
#Rochdale Labour Meeting have just endorsed my re-selection to fight the General Election next year - very pleased & proud. Thank you.

Oh wonderful news.

Can somebody tweet the tosser something like.

Did you promise to swap parties and fight for Labour or are you sticking with the Tories?

[Tubby Isaacs]

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/20 ... welsh-gps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Director of the Welsh NHS Confederation, Helen Birtwhistle, said 20,000 patients from England are registered with GPs on this side of the border compared to 15,000 from Wales with English GPs.

Though for hospital treatment, more go the other way.

[adam]

http://labourlist.org/2014/11/carswell- ... ing-class/

''Pretending to be Labour in the North and Tories in the South'' that wants hammering home from Labour, Reckless asserting that UKIP are there for the working class is the biggest load of cobblers since the end of Twin Peaks. Owen Smith is dead right there.

Oi! Following Ohso above the twelfth commandment is clearly "skaep niwt tuoba edur be ton tlahs uoht"

[Spacedone]

#NotVotingUKIP is trending on Twitter.

[RogerOThornhill]

On the Income tax point...I looked up what the numbers were in the budget and the increases of 2014/15 over 2013/4.

PAYE....................+4.7bn
Self assessment......+6.3bn

If PAYE is pretty consistent through the year you'd expect to be getting 2.7bn more by 7 months.

January is a big month for self assessment and I would imagine this is the key month that Osborne will be looking at.

Interesting that on self assessment, it went up only by 0.3bn from 2012/13 to 2013/4

2012/3...20.6
2013/4...20.9
2014/5...27.2

That's a pretty huge jump and looks wildly optimistic from where I'm sitting.

So...20th Feb or thereabouts could be a bit of a shocker. Or saving Osborne's neck.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 75073.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

george-osborne-facing-16-billion-black-hole-in-the-public-finances-as-pledge-to-slash-deficit-unlikely

[refitman]

Found Anatoly's round-up:

Away from the madhouse, three local by-elections yesterday:

Medway - alongside the parliamentary election this contest also saw a sitting Tory incumbent who had defected see themselves re-elected as a UKIP councillor, and besting Reckless by scoring nearly half the vote having not stood in 2011 (though they did, not to any great effect, in 2007 and 2003) This is traditionally a very safe Tory ward, one of their best on the council - but this time they had a drop of 20 per cent to a third of the vote (with, rather oddly, a former English Democrat candidate here standing for them) Labour, traditionally a distant second here, dropped to third with their share also clearly down - followed by the Greens (also down a bit) and lastly the LibDems who dropped to a princely 1%, though this was of course BETTER than their parliamentary share!

Stockport - Tory hold, with a small swing in their favour from the LibDems, of one of their few "bankers" in this council recently - they have always won it since the present boundaries came into effect in 2004, though the LibDems have run them close a few times (notably the inaugural election and then on a GE turnout in 2010) Tories were likely helped by the surprising absence of UKIP when they have stood here in every election for the past decade, though never polling brilliantly; also ran positions were filled by the Greens who stood here in 2010-12 and this time polled 5% after sitting May out - this was enough to beat Labour who saw their never large vote drop further after fielding a paper candidate from outside the area.

Swansea - Independent gain from Labour, though there is more to this than meets the eye; the winner is the former LibDem candidate for Swansea West at the 2010 GE who then fell just 500 votes short of beating Labour - he also topped the poll in this ward in 2004 and 2008 when the LibDems easily won all four seats on both occasions, before finishing just 10 votes behind the last Labour candidate when they unexpectedly swept all the seats here in 2012. With the previous incumbent here being disqualified for non attendance Labour were always likely to be up against it, and they duly saw a double figure drop in their share as the winner moved ahead with nearly a third of the vote. The official LibDem fared worse, however, as they dropped from roughly 30% two years ago to a third of that now, not far ahead of the Greens who will be disappointed to see their own vote down, however (they apparently campaigned quite hard here) Next there was a "Swansea Independent" candidate who finished ahead of the Tories who also dropped on last time, then Plaid (who did not bother in 2012) with just 5% but well ahead of TUSC in their traditional last place with just 1.5% - still a better showing than the LibDems in Rochester, of course

No fewer than twelve (!) contests next week - the most since since May.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 5m5 minutes ago
#Rochdale Labour Meeting have just endorsed my re-selection to fight the General Election next year - very pleased & proud. Thank you.

Oh wonderful news.

Can somebody tweet the tosser something like.

Did you promise to swap parties and fight for Labour or are you sticking with the Tories?

I'll decline thanks. My little spat with Tom Watson was probably enough fun for one day.

I gather Owen Jones is twisting the knife again in the Guardian. He really doesn't care about anybody but himself and his own prospects any more, does he?

[TechnicalEphemera]

Oh wonderful news.

Can somebody tweet the tosser something like.

Did you promise to swap parties and fight for Labour or are you sticking with the Tories?

I'll decline thanks. My little spat with Tom Watson was probably enough fun for one day.

I gather Owen Jones is twisting the knife again in the Guardian. He really doesn't care about anybody but himself and his own prospects any more, does he?

To be honest there is nothing overly offensive about Jones's article, although it is a tiny bit incoherent.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Can somebody tweet the tosser something like.

Did you promise to swap parties and fight for Labour or are you sticking with the Tories?

I'll decline thanks. My little spat with Tom Watson was probably enough fun for one day.

I gather Owen Jones is twisting the knife again in the Guardian. He really doesn't care about anybody but himself and his own prospects any more, does he?

To be honest there is nothing overly offensive about Jones's article, although it is a tiny bit incoherent.

Possibly rushed it a bit to make sure he could catch the bandwagon.

[Tizme1]

Evening all,

Thanks Lady C for your good wishes for my youngest's 18th. We had a 'bit of a do' which was very nice. Basically family and close family friends. He has gone off to a party with his friends and I'm recovering from the exhaustion of trying to sort out the 'building site'.

Anyway, I've been reading through the comments and I was reminded of when Tony Blair speaking about John Prescott said "well you know, John is John". In a sense, I think that is what Labour have to get their heads around with regards Ed. Ed is Ed. No one is perfect. No one makes the right call every time. But Labour have to get behind him and support him to the hilt. Especially given the onslaught he is getting, and will continue to get, from the MSM.

You may think this is a bit of a cheek coming from a Green, but as I've said before, I do actually like Ed. Green Policies gel with me better than Labour Policies which I find still too neo liberal.

[Tizme1]

Been trying to look into the Green Party Citizen's Income.

Seeing they're aghast at any restriction on EU migrants' credits or benefits, I take it that any EU citizen can come to Britain for a subsidized holiday, whenever they want?

Actually, you are misrepresenting Greens there. But that is normal for right wingers who can't actually get their heads around the more nuanced stance of the Greens.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Been trying to look into the Green Party Citizen's Income.

Seeing they're aghast at any restriction on EU migrants' credits or benefits, I take it that any EU citizen can come to Britain for a subsidized holiday, whenever they want?

Actually, you are misrepresenting Greens there. But that is normal for right wingers who can't actually get their heads around the more nuanced stance of the Greens.

I don't think on any normal scale Tubby can be considered right wing.

It does raise an interesting point though, exactly how would such a scheme work within a Single European Market?

[Tizme1]

Been trying to look into the Green Party Citizen's Income.

Seeing they're aghast at any restriction on EU migrants' credits or benefits, I take it that any EU citizen can come to Britain for a subsidized holiday, whenever they want?

Actually, you are misrepresenting Greens there. But that is normal for right wingers who can't actually get their heads around the more nuanced stance of the Greens.

I don't think on any normal scale Tubby can be considered right wing.

It does raise an interesting point though, exactly how would such a scheme work within a Single European Market?

We'll have to agree to disagree on Tubby as I find quite a lot of his comments to the right. But then of course as a Green, I am very left! He also misrepresents the Green approach with regards migrants.

The citizens income would apply to Citizens - not immigrants who were working here temporarily. However at National level, I have raised the question previously and also asked about legal technicalities. Plus what help such migrants would receive if they were working here and then lost their job because I'm not entirely clear on that. If people are interested, then I'll report back once it has been clarified for me.

[gilsey]

About 30 years ago I thought citizen's income was a great idea.

Now I really don't think it would work here, because of housing costs, you'd still need housing benefit. I think getting that under control would have to come first. Not going to happen, is it.