Friday 21st November 2014

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 7:00 am

Morning all.

Thanks to LC for the R&S postings. As usual this is the place I come for my first look at "news".

Who'd've thunk it?

Tax relief schemes ‘losing billions’ for Treasury claims Whitehall watchdog

http://gu.com/p/43fq9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So based upon these figures

Mark Reckless, a former Tory MP whose defection to Ukip triggered the byelection received 16,867 votes, or 42.1% of the poll.

His Conservative opponent, Kelly Tolhurst, took 13,947 votes (34.8%). The Conservative vote fell by 14.4%.

Labour’s Naushabah Khan came third with 6,713 (16.8%, down 11.7%) and the Liberal Democrats just 349 (0.9%, down 15.4%).

the third subheading is "Labour plummets", no mention of the Lib Dems. Fuck me.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 7:14 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Thanks to LC for the R&S postings. As usual this is the place I come for my first look at "news".

Who'd've thunk it?

Tax relief schemes ‘losing billions’ for Treasury claims Whitehall watchdog

http://gu.com/p/43fq9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So based upon these figures

Mark Reckless, a former Tory MP whose defection to Ukip triggered the byelection received 16,867 votes, or 42.1% of the poll.

His Conservative opponent, Kelly Tolhurst, took 13,947 votes (34.8%). The Conservative vote fell by 14.4%.

Labour’s Naushabah Khan came third with 6,713 (16.8%, down 11.7%) and the Liberal Democrats just 349 (0.9%, down 15.4%).

the third subheading is "Labour plummets", no mention of the Lib Dems. Fuck me.

Morning.
I was just about to post the same thing.Labours share of the vote fell less than the tory or libdem,but,Labour plummets?That's all I'm reading at the guardian this weekend,it is becoming bizzare.
I don't see what was wrong with the Thornberry photo myself,but,in a way,if Eds getting furious maybe it will be a good thing.Time he kicked some ass.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 7:52 am

Morning!

A reasonably balanced account of the by-election from Rowena Mason

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... id-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:13 am

Here's an actual photo of the media reaction to Thornberry's photo.

"She turned me into a newt!...... I got better."

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:17 am

The Guardian have a profile piece up about Emily Thornberry, her schooling, where she was brought up, a council house, and her parents marital status, it is open for comments, the usual troll fest, as you would expect, another example of the plain downright nastiness of that paper imo, or from a financial viewpoint, click bait?

Reckless in his ''victory'' speech called Ukrap the home of the radical working class, bollocks of course, Thatcher had plenty of working class voters, they weren't radical, and they usually lived in the south east.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:24 am

New Statesman retweeted
The Staggers ‏@TheStaggers 3m3 minutes ago
Lib Dems suffer worst-ever by-election result for a major party as they win just 0.9%: http://bit.ly/1uNB2o7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:36 am

Oh, and don't get me started on John Harris, he lost all legitimacy when he reckoned Plaid Cymru were running amok in the South Wales valleys, they aren't. Today's piece is in a similar vein.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:41 am

Photo of Nick Robinson doing the rounds, he's posing with a member of ''Britain First'' surely a resigning issue?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:43 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:New Statesman retweeted
The Staggers ‏@TheStaggers 3m3 minutes ago
Lib Dems suffer worst-ever by-election result for a major party as they win just 0.9%: http://bit.ly/1uNB2o7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Every cloud has a silver lining.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:44 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Photo of Nick Robinson doing the rounds, he's posing with a member of ''Britain First'' surely a resigning issue?

He''s furiously tweeting apologies "I had no idea who she was.My mistake"

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:47 am

HindleA wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Photo of Nick Robinson doing the rounds, he's posing with a member of ''Britain First'' surely a resigning issue?

He''s furiously tweeting apologies "I had no idea who she was.My mistake"

What a tit!

It's lashing down, and have to take hounds out.

Oh, for the love of dogs!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:48 am

What a depressing morning.

Hugh Muir in the G writes a more reflective piece on Ukip and the travails of Conservative, Labour and Libs and what could and should be addressed.

BTL is like the Mail on steroids. Unreadable.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:51 am

HindleA wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Photo of Nick Robinson doing the rounds, he's posing with a member of ''Britain First'' surely a resigning issue?

He''s furiously tweeting apologies "I had no idea who she was.My mistake"

That's the problem with the 'metropolitan elite', they just haven't got a clue about 'real working class' people have they ?

Heard him say if it hadn't been for Thornberry everyone would be talking about the Tories & UKIP today. But he & his media pals would have blown up another anti-Labour story instead.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 8:59 am

This will get a tiny fraction of the amount of publicity that Thornberry's tweeted pic did:

'Revealed: How the world gets rich – from privatising British public services
Exclusive: ‘Scandal’ of UK citizens’ millions that go to foreign state-owned public services'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 74048.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:18 am

Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick · 5h 5 hours ago
Geoff juby's Lib Dem percentage vote fell from 16.3% to 0.9, fall of about 95%

It wasn't even quite 0.9%.

0.87% to be precise.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:20 am

Morning.

Possibly the most depressed I've been since the Health and Social Care Act was passed. The Thornberry business just looks from here like Roy Scheider throwing some chum out of the boat. The shark isn't remotely satisfied and you're still more likely to get eaten than not. Are Labour still haunted by Gillian Duffy, or what? Do they not know they were losing the 2010 election regardless?

But that's relatively small beer compared to this:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or this:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

About three years ago, of course, some of us could actually debate the signs of proto-fascism in Britain over at the Guardian. Not a hope in hell now.

Still, I recommend putting the word "fascism" into Twitter search. If only to demonstrate that Britain isn't quite as fucking stupid a country as it appears to be this morning.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:23 am

Rebecca wrote:Morning.
I was just about to post the same thing.Labours share of the vote fell less than the tory or libdem,but,Labour plummets?That's all I'm reading at the guardian this weekend,it is becoming bizzare.
I don't see what was wrong with the Thornberry photo myself,but,in a way,if Eds getting furious maybe it will be a good thing.Time he kicked some ass.

Morning all. Shame about Thornberry, lot of media driven fuss over nothing; but I agree it is time he kicked some ass, would just rather it had been the ass of "Rentagob" Danczuk who seems determined to screw over all his colleagues.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:25 am

Royal Bournemouth Hospital threatens to evict elderly patients
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 74045.html

How times change. When I worked with health/social services for older people ... this area was held up as pioneering in its ability to provide a fast response to putting the required services so they could come back to, or remain in, their homes.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:29 am

Good morning.

Andy Coulson has been released from prison after five months. More details soon … (Guardian breaking news tickertape thingy)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:30 am

...blown up another anti-Labour story instead.

It's not fair or just these deliberate, disproportionate attacks on Labour - It was acknowledged at the West Midlands Labour conference I attended last week this is what Labour can expect from the media in the run up to May 2015.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:31 am

Good morning, everyone.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:33 am

I have to take my hat off to 5Live this morning. Never has a larger collection of idiots been assembled in one place. I include their presenters in that. Does that make me snobbish?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:36 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Royal Bournemouth Hospital threatens to evict elderly patients
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 74045.html
How times change. When I worked with health/social services for older people ... this area was held up as pioneering in its ability to provide a fast response to putting the required services so they could come back to, or remain in, their homes.

Is this change the result of budget constraints & making vital staff redundant? What a joke that word - redundant - people working in social care with elderly people are desperately needed. So much work needing to be done & we're being deliberately starved instead.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:37 am

frightful_oik wrote:I have to take my hat off to 5Live this morning. Never has a larger collection of idiots been assembled in one place. I include their presenters in that. Does that make me snobbish?

It means you're likely to be a good judge of character.

Post by **adam** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:38 am

Borrowing for this fiscal year 6.1% up on last year, as public borrowing figures hit expected level of 7.7bn (down on 7.9bn this time last year)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:40 am

frightful_oik wrote:I have to take my hat off to 5Live this morning. Never has a larger collection of idiots been assembled in one place. I include their presenters in that. Does that make me snobbish?

Thank you...was desperately in need of a laugh this depressing morning, and your post made me literally smile from ear to ear.

Just hope I'm not being beamed onto the net by Russian webcam hackers - 'middle aged woman in Wales, in a pink fleece, looking demented.'

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:44 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:What a depressing morning.

Hugh Muir in the G writes a more reflective piece on Ukip and the travails of Conservative, Labour and Libs and what could and should be addressed.

BTL is like the Mail on steroids. Unreadable.

I haven't looked at the G or any other publication yet. I'm still working on my first cup of tea. I'll have a gander in a bit.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:45 am

yahyah wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:I have to take my hat off to 5Live this morning. Never has a larger collection of idiots been assembled in one place. I include their presenters in that. Does that make me snobbish?

Thank you...was desperately in need of a laugh this depressing morning, and your post made me literally smile from ear to ear.

Just hope I'm not being beamed onto the net by Russian webcam hackers - 'middle aged woman in Wales, in a pink fleece, looking demented.'

I believe that may be what is known in the web cam hacking fraternity as "Specialist Content."

If your webcam has a password make sure you have actually set it, rather than going with default, and you should be good.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:52 am

If there was a mistake in Emily Thornberry's tweet, it was displaying the number plate of the individual - that wasn't a good move. She also tweeted #Rochester, when the house was in Strood. She was attempting citizen journalism, and it was no more a judgment on the individual than those economy stories in the Guardian where they show a row of shops marked "Closing Down".

But who would have thought that the owner turned out to be a shaven headed Tory voter who was into Mixed Martial Arts?

I've always liked Thornberry on Question Time, and have a bit less respect for Ed for sacking her, though. She was the Shadow Attorney General, for crying out loud; of course she's going to be a well educated solicitor from a wealthy family - who's he going to replace her with; Dennis Skinner?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:56 am

DonutHingeParty wrote:If there was a mistake in Emily Thornberry's tweet, it was displaying the number plate of the individual - that wasn't a good move. She also tweeted #Rochester, when the house was in Strood. She was attempting citizen journalism, and it was no more a judgment on the individual than those economy stories in the Guardian where they show a row of shops marked "Closing Down".

But who would have thought that the owner turned out to be a shaven headed Tory voter who was into Mixed Martial Arts?

I've always liked Thornberry on Question Time, and have a bit less respect for Ed for sacking her, though. She was the Shadow Attorney General, for crying out loud; of course she's going to be a well educated solicitor from a wealthy family - who's he going to replace her with; Dennis Skinner?

Agreed, without the number plate that picture was fine. Is it
me or are the media running a risky game hitching their wagon to a person that they don't know anything about?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 9:57 am

DonutHingeParty wrote:If there was a mistake in Emily Thornberry's tweet, it was displaying the number plate of the individual - that wasn't a good move. She also tweeted #Rochester, when the house was in Strood. She was attempting citizen journalism, and it was no more a judgment on the individual than those economy stories in the Guardian where they show a row of shops marked "Closing Down".

But who would have thought that the owner turned out to be a shaven headed Tory voter who was into Mixed Martial Arts?

I've always liked Thornberry on Question Time, and have a bit less respect for Ed for sacking her, though. She was the Shadow Attorney General, for crying out loud; of course she's going to be a well educated solicitor from a wealthy family - who's he going to replace her with; Dennis Skinner?

Wealthy now but from fairly humble roots.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:01 am

frightful_oik wrote:
DonutHingeParty wrote:If there was a mistake in Emily Thornberry's tweet, it was displaying the number plate of the individual - that wasn't a good move. She also tweeted #Rochester, when the house was in Strood. She was attempting citizen journalism, and it was no more a judgment on the individual than those economy stories in the Guardian where they show a row of shops marked "Closing Down".

But who would have thought that the owner turned out to be a shaven headed Tory voter who was into Mixed Martial Arts?

I've always liked Thornberry on Question Time, and have a bit less respect for Ed for sacking her, though. She was the Shadow Attorney General, for crying out loud; of course she's going to be a well educated solicitor from a wealthy family - who's he going to replace her with; Dennis Skinner?
Wealthy now but from fairly humble roots.

I think her mother was humble, but she was pretty heavily financially supported by her father, who went on to be UN Assistant Secretary General; which is hardly Living Wage material, so I stand by the fact that she probably didn't have to struggle financially.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:06 am

Rochester by-election: Labour MP Emily Thornberry resigns after posting white van and England flags tweet

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 74088.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:13 am

Morning All.

I see I've been promoted to Committee Member! I never really intended to become a regular here, but I seem to have become hooked!

Anyway, to business:

He said Rochester was the kind of seat Labour would only win if it won a landslide nationally.

We’ve been campaigning hard, but the truth is this was a landslide seat for Labour, not a majority seat. It was number 124 on our target list and in that sense of course we were going to be under pressure.

The "he" being Douglas Alexander. The bit which staggers me is the fact that Rochester and Strood was only 124 on Labour's target list. I had no idea it was that low. My constituency, currently held by Rees-Mogg, is number 72 on the list and still quite a challenge (I'm not really expecting to see him ousted in May) which gives me a whole new perspective on this by-election. Rochester is clearly as right-wing as the results this morning suggest.

Which brings me to a little bugbear of mine. Why is it that Labour are expected to represent working class people regardless of the political persuasion of those working class people? Labour was created to achieve greater equality for the working classes via socialism, a left-wing philosophy of redistribution of wealth. To my mind, Labour hasn't abandoned the working classes, it is the working classes who have abandoned them. By voting for Ukip they are rejecting socialism and embracing the me, me, me politics of Thatcherism, the politics of tax cuts and privatisation. If Labour loses such minded individuals, I just can't see that as Labour having done something wrong.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:14 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all. Thoroughly sick of everything this morning. Today Programme rabid with coverage of 'that tweet'. Did Thornberry really just tweet a picture of the house with flags and the van and caption 'Picture from #Rochester'? I've been trying to find out what else she said that might have compounded it but there doesn't seem to have been anything. (My wife was listening before I was and said she thought there had been a suggestion Thornberry had also said 'this is everything we are fighting against' but I think that must have been 'interpretation' as I can find no mention of it anywhere else).

It's clear from now on that any tiny slip by anyone from Labour is going to be pounced on and torn to shreds in the MSM, BBC included, while anything the other parties do is just going to be greeted with a shrug. This is nauseating. In David Cameron we have the worst PM in living memory, an economy in some respects worse than it was five years ago, the slowest recovery since the South Sea Bubble, the NHS in crisis, public services being handed over to the private sector at an unprecedented rate, a Chancellor going to bat for bankers while taxing the poor, a SofS for Work and Pensions who laughs when told about a woman subjected to the bedroom tax because of the panic room to orotect her from a violent ex partner... Not that you'd know about that last one from the Today Programme because their Thursday morning coverage of PMQs focussed exclusively on Myleen Fucking Klass jokes!

What the hell is wrong with these people?

Thank you, good post. My frustration matches yours.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:16 am

Emily Thornberry cocked up, in my opinion. That's not to say that I approve of, or agree with, the way the press is dealing with the issue but with a bit of thought she could have avoided all this. The inclusion of the vehicle's registration number was an especially monumentally stupid thing to have done.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:16 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Oh, and don't get me started on John Harris, he lost all legitimacy when he reckoned Plaid Cymru were running amok in the South Wales valleys, they aren't. Today's piece is in a similar vein.

I used to like John Harris but I'm increasingly baffled as to what it is that he wants. After writing seemingly weekly articles about how UKIP are eating into Labour's vote, and how they have to start addressing the concerns of potential UKIP voters and talk about immigration, he suddenly does a complete turnaround and claims Labour are pushing potential voters away to the Greens by sounding too much like UKIP and banging on about immigration! It's just ridiculous.

Does he honestly think that there is some kind of magical policy ground that Labour can adopt which will appeal to both potential Green and UKIP voters (and presumably attract those flirting with the SNP as well)? If so, I wish he'd bloody well share it with the rest of us.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:18 am

Willow904 wrote:Morning All.

I see I've been promoted to Committee Member! I never really intended to become a regular here, but I seem to have become hooked!

Anyway, to business:

He said Rochester was the kind of seat Labour would only win if it won a landslide nationally.

We’ve been campaigning hard, but the truth is this was a landslide seat for Labour, not a majority seat. It was number 124 on our target list and in that sense of course we were going to be under pressure.

To my mind, Labour hasn't abandoned the working classes, it is the working classes who have abandoned them. By voting for Ukip they are rejecting socialism and embracing the me, me, me politics of Thatcherism, the politics of tax cuts and privatisation. If Labour loses such minded individuals, I just can't see that as Labour having done something wrong.

This, this, this!
If you're interested in "What's in it for me, and me alone" that's a better indicator of your long term political affiliations, not what your current financial status is.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:19 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all. Thoroughly sick of everything this morning. Today Programme rabid with coverage of 'that tweet'. Did Thornberry really just tweet a picture of the house with flags and the van and caption 'Picture from #Rochester'? I've been trying to find out what else she said that might have compounded it but there doesn't seem to have been anything. (My wife was listening before I was and said she thought there had been a suggestion Thornberry had also said 'this is everything we are fighting against' but I think that must have been 'interpretation' as I can find no mention of it anywhere else).

I can't find anything that would justify the reaction either. Someone pointed out yesterday that she'd sent another tweet of a house covered in England flags but on this one she wrote a message that was very positive about it. That tweet seems to be being ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative or if it is mentioned it's used as an example of how she's a 'hypocrite'.

As far as I can tell someone decided to interpret the picture as negative and everything that's followed has just been the sheep-like regurgitation of that. I've spotted a handful of media people breaking away from the herd to question why the hell everyone is reacting like they are over nothing but they seem to be a very small minority.

Another 6 months of manufactured outrage and attempts to fix the election to go...

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:19 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all. Thoroughly sick of everything this morning. Today Programme rabid with coverage of 'that tweet'. Did Thornberry really just tweet a picture of the house with flags and the van and caption 'Picture from #Rochester'? I've been trying to find out what else she said that might have compounded it but there doesn't seem to have been anything. (My wife was listening before I was and said she thought there had been a suggestion Thornberry had also said 'this is everything we are fighting against' but I think that must have been 'interpretation' as I can find no mention of it anywhere else).

It's clear from now on that any tiny slip by anyone from Labour is going to be pounced on and torn to shreds in the MSM, BBC included, while anything the other parties do is just going to be greeted with a shrug. This is nauseating. In David Cameron we have the worst PM in living memory, an economy in some respects worse than it was five years ago, the slowest recovery since the South Sea Bubble, the NHS in crisis, public services being handed over to the private sector at an unprecedented rate, a Chancellor going to bat for bankers while taxing the poor, a SofS for Work and Pensions who laughs when told about a woman subjected to the bedroom tax because of the panic room to orotect her from a violent ex partner... Not that you'd know about that last one from the Today Programme because their Thursday morning coverage of PMQs focussed exclusively on Myleen Fucking Klass jokes!

What the hell is wrong with these people?

Look the whole sneering thing was largely invented by Anne Perkins in her Guardian article. Thornbury just posted a striking picture of a building she does that a lot. Her second mistake was following up with an apology - what she should have posted is - what is offensive about a house with England flags?

Here are the lessons.

1. The Guardian is the enemy, treat it like the Daily Mail. It really is out to cause Labour maximum damage and will make stuff up to do it.

2. If you do take a picture provide your own context. Something like -Proudly flying the flag in Rochester would do the job.

3. If you don't provide context nasty right wing hacks like Perkins will make stuff up in the most damaging way possible.

4. Twitter is best used for bland good news and hammering your opponents gaffes with faux outrage.

The media resembles Russia. Our PM is an aristocrat, his wife is an aristocrat, the chancellor is an aristocrat, the man of the people is an ex public schoolboy banker.

And the problem apparently is that the one party that isn't pissing on the majority from a great height is run by a rich elite.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:20 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all. Thoroughly sick of everything this morning. Today Programme rabid with coverage of 'that tweet'. Did Thornberry really just tweet a picture of the house with flags and the van and caption 'Picture from #Rochester'? I've been trying to find out what else she said that might have compounded it but there doesn't seem to have been anything. (My wife was listening before I was and said she thought there had been a suggestion Thornberry had also said 'this is everything we are fighting against' but I think that must have been 'interpretation' as I can find no mention of it anywhere else).

It's clear from now on that any tiny slip by anyone from Labour is going to be pounced on and torn to shreds in the MSM, BBC included, while anything the other parties do is just going to be greeted with a shrug. This is nauseating. In David Cameron we have the worst PM in living memory, an economy in some respects worse than it was five years ago, the slowest recovery since the South Sea Bubble, the NHS in crisis, public services being handed over to the private sector at an unprecedented rate, a Chancellor going to bat for bankers while taxing the poor, a SofS for Work and Pensions who laughs when told about a woman subjected to the bedroom tax because of the panic room to orotect her from a violent ex partner... Not that you'd know about that last one from the Today Programme because their Thursday morning coverage of PMQs focussed exclusively on Myleen Fucking Klass jokes!

What the hell is wrong with these people?

No, literally all she did was post the photograph with that caption, the rest of it is a Lynton & Staines froth job which the MSM have dutifully carried out to the letter. Whether or not it was right for her to go (and, personally, I don't think it was but at least it takes some wind out of their sails) it has to be said she is conducting herself with immense dignity this morning, in marked contrast to the likes of Mitchell and Miller when they eventually went.

On another matter, Clive Efford's "National Health Service (Amended Duties and Powers) Bill" is currently having its second reading in the House; for those of you who still go Over There, has Sparrow even bothered mentioning it or is he too busy eulogising Reckless & condemning Thornberry? Anyway, needless to say Dennis Skinner is on fine form:

MagsNews ‏@MagsNews · 10m10 minutes ago
Dennis Skinner - I have a UN heart bypass. It was done by a Syrian cardiologist, a Malaysian surgeon, a Dutch doctor, a Nigerian registrar....

MagsNews ‏@MagsNews · 10m10 minutes ago
Dennis Skinner - .... and these two people here talk about sending them back (Carswell & Reckless)

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:22 am

I just can't bring myself to go onto the Guardian web-site today, not even for Sport or Culture. I cannot believe how thoroughly the paper I've been reading for nearly thirty five years has betrayed every principle it ever stood for and turned intself into so comprehensive a vehicle for lies, untruths, misrepresentations and the ignoring of things.

Edited for typo

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:23 am

Willow904 wrote:Morning All.

I see I've been promoted to Committee Member! I never really intended to become a regular here, but I seem to have become hooked!

Anyway, to business:

He said Rochester was the kind of seat Labour would only win if it won a landslide nationally.

We’ve been campaigning hard, but the truth is this was a landslide seat for Labour, not a majority seat. It was number 124 on our target list and in that sense of course we were going to be under pressure.
The "he" being Douglas Alexander. The bit which staggers me is the fact that Rochester and Strood was only 124 on Labour's target list. I had no idea it was that low. My constituency, currently held by Rees-Mogg, is number 72 on the list and still quite a challenge (I'm not really expecting to see him ousted in May) which gives me a whole new perspective on this by-election. Rochester is clearly as right-wing as the results this morning suggest.

Which brings me to a little bugbear of mine. Why is it that Labour are expected to represent working class people regardless of the political persuasion of those working class people? Labour was created to achieve greater equality for the working classes via socialism, a left-wing philosophy of redistribution of wealth. To my mind, Labour hasn't abandoned the working classes, it is the working classes who have abandoned them. By voting for Ukip they are rejecting socialism and embracing the me, me, me politics of Thatcherism, the politics of tax cuts and privatisation. If Labour loses such minded individuals, I just can't see that as Labour having done something wrong.

And there's no finer example of the 'me me me' politics of Thatcherism than white van man himself who voted Tory last time but didn't know why and couldn't give a flying one about what his neighbours think of his England flags on his home all the time.

OK, I'm a snob - I'd hate someone like that living near me. That's not 'working class' - they had respect for themselves and their neighbours - this is just selfish, boorish behaviour.

The irony is that it's all a bit PC when someone can't some out and say something like this.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:27 am

The media really are trying to have it both ways, aren't they? On the one hand they're going after Ed for his "Politics of Envy" in taxing multimillionaire houses and then they're saying that those living in multimillionaire houses - like Emily - are out of touch by marvelling at a man who is so passionate about his flag that he uses it to restrict his vision of the world outside his window (to paraphrase Geldof)

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:29 am

Tish wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Oh, and don't get me started on John Harris, he lost all legitimacy when he reckoned Plaid Cymru were running amok in the South Wales valleys, they aren't. Today's piece is in a similar vein.
I used to like John Harris but I'm increasingly baffled as to what it is that he wants. After writing seemingly weekly articles about how UKIP are eating into Labour's vote, and how they have to start addressing the concerns of potential UKIP voters and talk about immigration, he suddenly does a complete turnaround and claims Labour are pushing potential voters away to the Greens by sounding too much like UKIP and banging on about immigration! It's just ridiculous.

Does he honestly think that there is some kind of magical policy ground that Labour can adopt which will appeal to both potential Green and UKIP voters (and presumably attract those flirting with the SNP as well)? If so, I wish he'd bloody well share it with the rest of us.

I don't 'get' John Harris. In the run up to the Health & Social Care Bill (aka Lansley's payback to the donors) he was just about the only journo on there speaking out against it most of the time; belatedly (very belatedly) Polly and Zoe joined in, but Harris did most of the running, certainly earned my admiration for his stance.

But I lost all of that admiration as he switched to his "Isn't Nigel a clever boy" tack with, as you say, weekly articles into how UKIP were stealing the Labour vote. Does he think there is some kind of magical policy? Doubt it, he and Owen Jones are cut from similar cloth, they don't 'do' solutions just constantly criticise and undermine.

Post by **adam** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:32 am

PorFavor wrote:Emily Thornberry cocked up, in my opinion. That's not to say that I approve of, or agree with, the way the press is dealing with the issue but with a bit of thought she could have avoided all this. The inclusion of the vehicle's registration number was an especially monumentally stupid thing to have done.

I agree, although I think it's worth adding that she seems to be behaving extremely honourably about it all today.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:32 am

OK, my Ofsted story for today and one that sums up my contempt for Gove and his outrageously stupid academy conversion programme.

Audenshaw School Academy Trust converted in September 2010 i.e. at the earliest possible opportunity. At the time they were rated as 3 - Satisfactory so quite why they were let is an issue.

They've been inspected twice since - Nov 2013 (Grade 3 - now called Requires Improvement) and the latest...Grade 4 Inadequate.

Given that they're a converter they're on their own so what do I see?

Partnerships with external agencies help to promote the care of students most in need. Tutorial provision, assemblies and life-skills classes were seen during inspection to be preparing students to better understand life in modern Britain. The academy trust works with the local authority across a range of matters and initiatives.

Interesting that in the Evening Standard there was an article over one of the top performing primary schools in the country (Grinling Gibbons) ....and there was not a single mention of academies in the entire article. And no, they're not an academy...

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:33 am

According to some journo from The Sun there's no worse crime than "having a go at someone for being patriotic".

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:33 am

Double post.

Not quite sure what happened there.

Just reading the Johhn Cass Ofsted report. That looks like a lot of fuss over not very much too.

Love the way that Today were asking the Tower Hamlets man what they were going to do about the Islamic independent schools...er...not much as they're not allowed in.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Fri 21 Nov, 2014 10:36 am

Willow904 wrote:Morning All.

I see I've been promoted to Committee Member! I never really intended to become a regular here, but I seem to have become hooked!

As committee chair, let me say we welcome your continued output, especially if it's of the same quality and coherency of thought as this post.

I noted that Peter Bone has put out a piece saying how much he really, really loves the Tories, and doesn't want to join UKIP at all.

I'd have thought Rees Mogg might be in the second wave of defectors. If Carswell and Reckless can manage to convince UKIP to push the more openly socially liberal agenda (for British people, anyway) and are prepared to draw a line in the sand with regards to the quasi-BNPers, RM might be persuaded - of course, it depends on what happens with regards to Cameron's successor. I'm hoping for my MP, Liam Fox, to get a bloody nose next May, but I don't think he'll get defenestrated.