Saturday 22st & Sunday 23rd November 2014

[rebeccariots2]

Hundreds of government-funded boreholes are set to be drilled across Britain to try to persuade the public that a looming shale gas boom can be developed safely, the Observer has learned. Sensors in the boreholes would detect possible water pollution or earthquakes caused by fracking and the information would be made public.

“We will be taking the pulse of the sub-surface environment and will reveal if things are going wrong, but also if they are going right,” said Professor Mike Stephenson, director of science and technology at the British Geological Survey, which would drill the boreholes. “The aim is to reassure people that we can manage the sub-surface safely.”

The plan, called the energy security and innovation observing system, will cost taxpayers £60m-£80m. It is awaiting final approval from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, where energy minister Matthew Hancock, a fracking enthusiast, holds another ministerial post...
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -boreholes

Un bloody believable. Now the government is paying up front for the privateering profiteers pass to make their billions out of our natural resources ...

Talk about subsidies for the favoured few ... This makes me want to live up to my username.

[HindleA]

Yougov has Lab/Con tied at 33%

[mbc1955]

I'm probably not the first person here to think of this but let's assume that come next May we get the outcome that the UK so desperately needs and Labour win enough seats to form the next Government. How likely is it that Cameron and his desperate band of terrorists will actually step down and leave and not just simply refuse to surrender power?

[rebeccariots2]

I'm probably not the first person here to think of this but let's assume that come next May we get the outcome that the UK so desperately needs and Labour win enough seats to form the next Government. How likely is it that Cameron and his desperate band of terrorists will actually step down and leave and not just simply refuse to surrender power?

Well remember the nasty narrative that was spun about Brown supposedly refusing to leave? I have no idea what Cameron and co might do in that situation, their sense of entitlement is so ingrained. Do we have a special constitutional bailiffs team?

[mbc1955]

I'm probably not the first person here to think of this but let's assume that come next May we get the outcome that the UK so desperately needs and Labour win enough seats to form the next Government. How likely is it that Cameron and his desperate band of terrorists will actually step down and leave and not just simply refuse to surrender power?

Well remember the nasty narrative that was spun about Brown supposedly refusing to leave? I have no idea what Cameron and co might do in that situation, their sense of entitlement is so ingrained. Do we have a special constitutional bailiffs team?

Call me ultra-pessimistic or ultra-cynical (or both, more likely) but I have this strange feeling that we might need one.

But at least I've been wrong about such apocalyptic predictions in the past.

[adam]

If Labour have a majority in parliament then there's nothing the cons can do. If they don't I would expect they will stick by hook, no, make that by crook where they are and just refuse to budge, pretending they'd never dreamt of criticising Brown for not instantly resigning. Expect them also to argue about the legitimacy of a Labour government elected on a comparatively small share of the vote, whilst somehow still being very keen on first past the post.

[rebeccariots2]

Police forced to take patients to hospital as ambulances fail to show
A stroke patient died after an hour's wait for paramedics, The Telegraph can disclose, as a national inquiry is launched into how ambulance chiefs are using police officers to fill the gaps in their service
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... -show.html

[LadyCentauria]

Er..what's a Pan Haggerty?
I'm not having the pie for Christmas dinner,just preparing it for when I need a pie over the holidays.
see,we really need a christmas thread so I won't be cluttering up the politics page talking about food.

The basic version is a pound of sliced potatoes, eight ounces grated cheddar, four ounces sliced onions, four ounces of butter. Use some of the butter to gently fry the onions to soft light golden, put half the rest of the butter in an oven-and-hob-proof frying pan or shallow (two-or-three inch deep but wide) pie-dish, in a medium (Mk5) oven to pre-heat it and melt the butter. Once that butter is melted take the pan out onto the hob, put a layer of sliced potatoes in and fry until the base of them is golden. Then layer up so it goes potatoes, onion, cheese, repeat, until the cheese it used up, top with potatoes, dot with the remaining butter and put back in the oven for half an hour. Raise the temperature to medium hot (Mk7) for another 15 mins. Once finished, use a spatula to loosen around the edge, lay dinner- or serving-plate on top, flip over, lift off the pan, slice and serve. Reduce/increase quantities and size of pan according to appetite and numbers.

Now, my Grandma Wilkinson's versions grew and shrank with what was available so she would add layers of cabbage and/or other vegetables, chopped or sliced cooked meat, mash, etc., Even leftover pie sliced fine with the pastry still on. And if there wasn't much meat left she'd shred it or chop it up and mix it and the cheese into the mash and use that as one layer. Often, and especially after feast-days, she'd start with sliced roasted potatoes instead of raw – and reduce the cooking time by about five minutes. So, that's five generations of us, at least, making it as either a cheap feast or a post-feast-day standard, including my son – and my not-my-daughters.

Edit: to remove accidental double quote...

[LadyCentauria]

When I was young we were still getting horse and carts around the streets, the ice cream man rode a bike with a box trailer and kept the ice cream in dry ice and the rag and bone man came every month or so. And a lot of the older working class men still wore collarless shirts, thick leather belts, white cotton mufflers and flat caps.
Edited to add. Some of the old customs and ways of doing things carried on into the fifties. I am a dinosaur.

Some of them carried on into the seventies! My mum was widowed in the mid-sixties, when she remarried in 1968 we moved down to Mitcham in South London where some of these things still survived; the local bakery, Coombes, used to deliver bread on a Saturday using a horse and cart until the early '70s, and my stepdad used to buy cockles & winkles (vile things) from the sea food man who used to go around the local pubs every sunday (mind you, we'd had that in Bermondsey as well).

And the rag and bone man went on using the horse and cart until well into the '80s; it was a family business run by the Sparrowhawks (reputedly part of the inspiration for Steptoe & Son), they actually got filmed for ITV's Magpie - this clip brought back a few memories!!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of my girl-friends is a Sparrowhawk! And the Mitcham Sparrowhawks used to come to us when we were in Thornton Heath around the time you were over Mitcham way! Plus, up until the mid-sixties our milkman, baker, and coal-man were all horse-drawn, too. The coal-man taught me to drive and I 'helped' him do our street. The milkman was the first to change. And, in the early-eighties, you could even have seen me driving a London Trolley with a pretty little bay between the shafts, and a grey hitched on behind, between two of the South London City Farms – we had a mini-co-op going to keep feed and bedding costs down, plus we borrowed their ponies to teach our local kids to ride. There were the brewery drays right up until recently, around here. Sadly, both Ind Coope and Watney's are gone, now but at least one of the Ind Coope shires came to work in Richmond Park. They still work horses in the park – mowing, harrowing, hauling felled trees and logs, and carting.

Thanks for that clip and all the memories it brings!

[TechnicalEphemera]

Cracking article this.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... mentpage=1

The hate BTL is enough to atomise a small planet. Quite funny, have a go you will all feel better.

[HindleA]

@TechnicalEphemera

I did post a comment,I was polite beyond the call of duty.It was brief and I do feel better.

[TechnicalEphemera]

@TechnicalEphemera

I did post a comment,I was polite beyond the call of duty.It was brief and I do feel better.

Polite isn't a requirement.

Frankly speaking I think the person writing F*ck ten times instead of Fuck is rather overdoing the courtesy.

[HindleA]

@TechnicalEphemera

I did post a comment,I was polite beyond the call of duty.It was brief and I do feel better.

Polite isn't a requirement.

Frankly speaking I think the person writing F*ck ten times instead of Fuck is rather overdoing the courtesy.

[Hobiejoe]

Cracking article this.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... mentpage=1

The hate BTL is enough to atomise a small planet. Quite funny, have a go you will all feel better.

Thanks to all who flagged up this bunch of words. I'd call it an article, but I have some residual respect for the journalistic profession.

And blimey yes, what an extraordinary excoriation btl. Raises the spirits somewhat.

[Tubby Isaacs]

In a week that saw the Lib Dems poll 0.87%, yes I will repeat that, 0.87% it's comforting to know there are still those who care who what nonsense they still spout.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... mentpage=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All bollocks of course, Cable became irrelevant within months of office, his record since gave nothing to change that view.

Love the last paragraph.

Labour is also pressing the chancellor to explain how the tax cuts would be paid for, and to rule out a rise in VAT, which the Conservatives have refused to do. Chris Leslie, the shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, said he had written to the chancellor several weeks ago but had not received a reply. “I am waiting by my post box,” he said.

So Labour said the same, weeks ago.

I'd say Cable (not even the whole Lib Dem party) is "also" pressing the Chancellor.

[LadyCentauria]

A bit of Science Sunday. Hear the sound of Philae touching down:

http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2014/11/20 ... -touchdown

Once you have clicked through to the Rosetta Blog, there is a Soundcloud recording overlaid on an image of Philae. If it doesn't play automatically just download it to your desktop. Double-clicking on that saved file should launch your player and you will hear what the sensors in Philae's feet picked up, processed by the onboard SESAME-CASSE instrument, which was switched on during the descent.

Over the next months/years, all sorts of interesting stuff will emerge from the mass of data which Philae (via Rosetta) streamed back to Earth before the batteries went so low that it had to be put into sleep mode. But there is also some potential good news resulting from Philae finally coming to land in a very shaded spot: being in shade will keep Philae cool so it should last longer than they'd originally thought, as Comet 67P gets close to the Sun.

[Spacedone]

The Indy smells a rat because NHS England aren't publishing their weekly statistics on how hospital A&Es are coping during November, unlike last year, despite the fact that a number of hospitals have already declared the highest level of alert over their capacity.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 77877.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"If you look at the number of people admitted [to hospital] this year, the population has not got that old, nor that frail, that quickly," he said. "We've been rolling back social care spending and the number of people getting services for a couple of years has been falling, as part of local government's contribution to deficit reduction. The risk is, what we're seeing now is the consequences of that rollback."

[refitman]

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 8h8 hours ago

There's another YouGov poll tonight -
Sun on Sunday
LAB 34,
CON 33,
UKIP 15,
LD 8.

[DonutHingeParty]

The Daily Maul this morning has an article which is basically a sneeringbmap to the shadow cabinets houses. I've heard of one rule for the rich and one for the poor but I didn't think it was supposed to work this way #Leveson.

Incidentally, Alistair Cameron and David Miliband are private individuals so shouldn't they be protected?

[ephemerid]

edited to add;ok,who eats potatoes with pie here?

Potatoes IN pies - Cornish Pasties, proper Northern Meat and Potato Pie, Turkish Feta and Spinach Borek.....

I eat spuds with pie. Not apple, pie, obvs. Although I have been told you can obtain an apple pie with potatoes in it at Macdonalds.

[RogerOThornhill]

The Daily Maul this morning has an article which is basically a sneeringbmap to the shadow cabinets houses. I've heard of one rule for the rich and one for the poor but I didn't think it was supposed to work this way #Leveson.

Incidentally, Alistair Cameron and David Miliband are private individuals so shouldn't they be protected?

Just seen that - since when was Neil Kinnock part of "Ed Miliband's elite"?

Not quite sure what the point is "MPs who primarily work in London...have houses in London"? Shocked...

[ephemerid]

I'm probably not the first person here to think of this but let's assume that come next May we get the outcome that the UK so desperately needs and Labour win enough seats to form the next Government. How likely is it that Cameron and his desperate band of terrorists will actually step down and leave and not just simply refuse to surrender power?

Well remember the nasty narrative that was spun about Brown supposedly refusing to leave? I have no idea what Cameron and co might do in that situation, their sense of entitlement is so ingrained. Do we have a special constitutional bailiffs team?

Call me ultra-pessimistic or ultra-cynical (or both, more likely) but I have this strange feeling that we might need one.

But at least I've been wrong about such apocalyptic predictions in the past.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - although the system should prevent them from hanging on, as it usually does, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some sort of emergency was declared/invented (terrorist threat?) that Cameron would use as the reason why he should stay for a bit....

There is no question in my mind now that these people are fascists. They have all the characteristics. I was watching a film last night called Bunker in which Anthony Hopkins played Hitler in his last days - although it's not accurate, I was struck anew by the way an entire nation was bamboozled into letting horrific things happen.

Cameron and his henchmen aren't even bothering to pretend any more. We've had nearly 5 years of clever-clever manipulation of words and obfuscation, and IDS with his denials of the obvious stood out - now they're all like him. Cameron and Osborne and the blatant lying when they got back from the EU, May and Gove attempting to subvert Parliamentary procedure, they're all at it.

I've said thousands of times in the past few years that we are being lied to on a massive scale - they were careful about it for a while but the gloves are off now. This week, the G has had an article from OGRFG, the hideous Zahawi, and now Beaker - all lies and very very obvious propaganda designed to convince us that they have our best interests at heart.

This is how it starts - convince the people that some among them are a bit different, then convince them that those people cost a lot of money and aren't like the good guys. Then marginalise them, cut off their support (personal as well as financial), make them work for their pittance, remove their services, all the while pretending that they are the source for all our troubles.
Next - pretend there is a clear and present danger, indulge in warlike rhetoric, encourage people to think they are hardworking plucky little souls with the machinery of government supporting them, and demonise the enemy within whilst whipping up hatred of all things foreign and making out that only "we" can save the nation from it all.

And if all that doesn't work, suppress protest and claim that it's necessary to keep the nation safe from its enemies. Fascism.

[yahyah]

Lady C's started a food/recipes thread in the Pub.

Unfortunately the Pub is now members only and won't show unless you are logged in.

The traffic to the Pub seems to have dropped dramatically since that change, am wondering if the admin peeps could be kind enough to make it public again ?

I don't know about how others feel, but when I was feeling very low recently the sort of topics and chat in the Pub helped tremendously and it's a shame that it is getting used less since being privatised.

Am happy to have responsibilty for zapping any Russian viagra merchants who may lurk there.

[yahyah]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... er-4675574" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems hard to pin down exactly what the Lib Dems mean by 'wealthy pensioners'.
Some reports in the last year or so suggested they think anyone living on an income above pension credit level is wealthy.

[rebeccariots2]

Morning all. Sometimes there are days when the collective headlines just scream out what a sorry state this country and its most vulnerable are now in. On the very day Danny Alexander pens his offensive rubbish about the coalition helping the poor more than the rich these say something else entirely.

Guardian
Food banks face record demand as low-income families look for help
Almost 500,000 adults and children were given three days’ food in the first six months of the current financial year
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ord-demand" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Taxpayers to fund fracking sites
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -boreholes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Security services 'in abuse coverup'
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... abuse-ring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No prosecutions over minimum wage
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... prosecuted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Independent
A&E winter crisis: Hospitals declare 'black alerts' as admissions shatter records, but full stats still unpublished
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 77877.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Broke Britain: Millions 'only days from the breadline,' claims report
Many have no strategy to deal with 'loss of income' – and would quickly have to rely on benefits
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 77881.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Benefit changes are killing the vulnerable, say campaigners
The sister of a mentally ill man who starved to death warns that many more could die this winter
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 77872.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[adam]

Well remember the nasty narrative that was spun about Brown supposedly refusing to leave? I have no idea what Cameron and co might do in that situation, their sense of entitlement is so ingrained. Do we have a special constitutional bailiffs team?

Call me ultra-pessimistic or ultra-cynical (or both, more likely) but I have this strange feeling that we might need one.

But at least I've been wrong about such apocalyptic predictions in the past.

I've said this before and I'll say it again - although the system should prevent them from hanging on, as it usually does, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some sort of emergency was declared/invented (terrorist threat?) that Cameron would use as the reason why he should stay for a bit....

There is no question in my mind now that these people are fascists. They have all the characteristics. I was watching a film last night called Bunker in which Anthony Hopkins played Hitler in his last days - although it's not accurate, I was struck anew by the way an entire nation was bamboozled into letting horrific things happen.

Cameron and his henchmen aren't even bothering to pretend any more. We've had nearly 5 years of clever-clever manipulation of words and obfuscation, and IDS with his denials of the obvious stood out - now they're all like him. Cameron and Osborne and the blatant lying when they got back from the EU, May and Gove attempting to subvert Parliamentary procedure, they're all at it.

I've said thousands of times in the past few years that we are being lied to on a massive scale - they were careful about it for a while but the gloves are off now. This week, the G has had an article from OGRFG, the hideous Zahawi, and now Beaker - all lies and very very obvious propaganda designed to convince us that they have our best interests at heart.

This is how it starts - convince the people that some among them are a bit different, then convince them that those people cost a lot of money and aren't like the good guys. Then marginalise them, cut off their support (personal as well as financial), make them work for their pittance, remove their services, all the while pretending that they are the source for all our troubles.
Next - pretend there is a clear and present danger, indulge in warlike rhetoric, encourage people to think they are hardworking plucky little souls with the machinery of government supporting them, and demonise the enemy within whilst whipping up hatred of all things foreign and making out that only "we" can save the nation from it all.

And if all that doesn't work, suppress protest and claim that it's necessary to keep the nation safe from its enemies. Fascism.

Our strange ally in all of this might be Bercow as speaker - if there is a Labour majority I suspect he will hear them on the floor of the house regardless of what Cameron et al might have to say about it and whether or not they deign to leave COBRA to turn up.

You might have noticed the other day the DUP looking forward to helping form the next government. I'm sure the present lot will scour the benches for votes, giving away anything to ulster and to any UKIP members who make it through, and courting the Labour benches too - there are a handful of people who I can imagine making speeches about how regrettably, for the good of the country, they must lend their vote to others...

The polls still say that Labour are going to win even that 'sun on sunday' poll with a 1 point lead gives a labour majority. Scotland feels very up in the air and I'm still not sure how bad it will turn out for Labour but it's worth remembering there that Labour seats are almost always the harder ones for the SNP to win - they will mop up almost everyone else first - so every tightening of the gap in Scotland will do a lot for labour's seat count.

And it's also worth remembering that a crash in the polls in Scotland hasn't done very much to Labour's overall share of the vote, which is because Labour and the tories are more or less neck and neck in England - when last time the share was Con 39 Lab 28.

And if all else fails I suspect the most obvious workable alliance that will be left is the Labour/SNP one.

Don't take anything for granted, but don't despair...

[rebeccariots2]

I see LibDemVoice have now posted up a report on / link to the Danny Alexander - let's pretend our shit is chocolate pudding - article. Only two comments BTL so far. I wonder how many they will allow that tell them chocolate pudding really doesn't smell this bad.

LibLink: Danny Alexander – The coalition has helped, not hurt the poor
http://www.libdemvoice.org/liblink-dann ... 43478.html

I wonder if the LibDems thought it was safe to come out now ... having been virtually ignored for the past couple of months.

I've got news for them. It isn't.

[DonutHingeParty]

Even though the SNP thing isn't a real problem for the left, as Sturgeon would never vote with the Tories - at least, not for the same reasons, its the old EVEL thing that will cause problems when talking about education health or those devolved welfare issues. In actual fact, its in Cameron's interests to devolve as much as possible because he's effectively denying Labour a vote on each measure. As budgets are still decided centrally, it won't be a problem in terms of whos PM, but it won't half make things awkward.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

The Daily Maul this morning has an article which is basically a sneeringbmap to the shadow cabinets houses. I've heard of one rule for the rich and one for the poor but I didn't think it was supposed to work this way #Leveson.

Incidentally, Alistair Cameron and David Miliband are private individuals so shouldn't they be protected?

Just seen that - since when was Neil Kinnock part of "Ed Miliband's elite"?

Not quite sure what the point is "MPs who primarily work in London...have houses in London"? Shocked...

Dangerously close to an incitement to violence imo, if just one of those houses is targeted for some form of attack in the near future the Mail are in deep shit; Dacre et al may think they are being clever, but those houses contain the MP's families as well.

@LadyC, you're very welcome. And wonderfully coincidental to hear that we were in much the same area at the same time!

On the subject of dray horses, Young's used them for local deliveries from their Ram Brewery in Wandsworth eight up until its closure in 2006 and they still maintain a couple of teams for promo purposes. And quite a number of local breweries all over the country have started using them again for local deliveries, for environmental, promotional and (even) economic reasons. All quite luvverly.

[adam]

Even though the SNP thing isn't a real problem for the left, as Sturgeon would never vote with the Tories - at least, not for the same reasons, its the old EVEL thing that will cause problems when talking about education health or those devolved welfare issues. In actual fact, its in Cameron's interests to devolve as much as possible because he's effectively denying Labour a vote on each measure. As budgets are still decided centrally, it won't be a problem in terms of whos PM, but it won't half make things awkward.

It's all speculation, but I suspect that if we had a labour/snp coalition then at least some of the other minor parties would fall in on a confidence and supply basis to keep it in power - even the lib dems - and the SNP not voting on English matters at westminster would become less significant. If that didn't work then the tories would be busy destroying themselves in the wake of a further GE loss and the government could engineer a confidence vote and win a more comfortable position in a second election.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Sooner or later the Nat bubble in Scotland will burst - its just a question of when.

[rebeccariots2]

And then there's also this, Danny. Another thing for you to crow about - or deny is happening?

Kate Green retweeted
Anna Turley ‏@annaturley 16m16 minutes ago
83% of parents with disabled children say their family is now going without http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 77801.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Benefit changes mean a choice of 'eat or heat' for an increasing number of families
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 77801.html
... One third of families with disabled children are worse off as a result of benefit changes – nearly half by more than £1,500 a year, the report warns. Changes to tax credits, a reduction in help with council tax and the "bedroom tax" were the commonest problems reported...

... The research, called Counting the Costs, is a UK-wide survey of more than 3,500 families with disabled children. Researchers found that debt was a growing problem for families with a disabled child, with 36 per cent having taken out a loan to cover costs, up from 29 per cent in 2012.

[adam]

On the subject of dray horses, Young's used them for local deliveries from their Ram Brewery in Wandsworth eight up until its closure in 2006 and they still maintain a couple of teams for promo purposes. And quite a number of local breweries all over the country have started using them again for local deliveries, for environmental, promotional and (even) economic reasons. All quite luvverly.

There have been very long generational times in my family - my dad was 43 when I was born, his dad was in his 40s when he was born - so my paternal grandfather, back in the 20s when my dad was a kid, was a baker's delivery man with a horse and wagon. As my dad said, come pay day it was lucky that the horse knew the way home...

(It carried on the generation before too, my paternal line great grandparents were married in 1871, in St Mary's Islington, just along the road from where I went to school a hundred years later. My kids still have great grandparents alive now!)

[NonOxCol]

There is no question in my mind now that these people are fascists. They have all the characteristics. I was watching a film last night called Bunker in which Anthony Hopkins played Hitler in his last days - although it's not accurate, I was struck anew by the way an entire nation was bamboozled into letting horrific things happen.

Cameron and his henchmen aren't even bothering to pretend any more. We've had nearly 5 years of clever-clever manipulation of words and obfuscation, and IDS with his denials of the obvious stood out - now they're all like him. Cameron and Osborne and the blatant lying when they got back from the EU, May and Gove attempting to subvert Parliamentary procedure, they're all at it.

I've said thousands of times in the past few years that we are being lied to on a massive scale - they were careful about it for a while but the gloves are off now. This week, the G has had an article from OGRFG, the hideous Zahawi, and now Beaker - all lies and very very obvious propaganda designed to convince us that they have our best interests at heart.

This is how it starts - convince the people that some among them are a bit different, then convince them that those people cost a lot of money and aren't like the good guys. Then marginalise them, cut off their support (personal as well as financial), make them work for their pittance, remove their services, all the while pretending that they are the source for all our troubles.
Next - pretend there is a clear and present danger, indulge in warlike rhetoric, encourage people to think they are hardworking plucky little souls with the machinery of government supporting them, and demonise the enemy within whilst whipping up hatred of all things foreign and making out that only "we" can save the nation from it all.

And if all that doesn't work, suppress protest and claim that it's necessary to keep the nation safe from its enemies. Fascism.

I can't stop thinking about the f-word either. Judging from Twitter, we're far from alone.

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... r-sun-says" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't agree with everything in it. I'm still firmly behind Miliband and Labour. The principal flaw of her argument is that the overwhelming onslaught of the right-wing media (including the BBC, which no longer deserves any benefit of the doubt whatsoever) is not a recent phenomenon; it began in 2009 with deficit hysteria. I really have no idea how a knackered Labour government was supposed to cut through all that and create a "social democratic moment". I'm still dizzied by how successful the right was in transforming the narrative within months of the crash. Almost everything we're stuck with now can be traced back to 2009. In this context, the most significant new development of the coalition years is not, per se, the rise of UKIP and the pathetic, fawning coverage of their "insurrection", but the fact that Clegg's actions between May and December 2010 had a spectacular multiplier effect on political apathy and cynicism. It's amazing that the article misses that.

But, having said all that, no article has come closer to summing up how I've felt for the last 48 hours.

[WelshIan]

Picking up on Friday's theme of Welsh shop names, our local grocer is Veg of Evans.

I particularly like the very apt name of a firm of Newport estate agents - Crook & Blight.

[rebeccariots2]

Picking up on Friday's theme of Welsh shop names, our local grocer is Veg of Evans.

I particularly like the very apt name of a firm of Newport estate agents - Crook & Blight.

Mr Riots' grandson works on the fish counter in the largest supermarket in his town. He's known as Ben the Fish by all the other staff. I wonder if there's also a John the Cheese and Rees the Dogfood and so on?

[rebeccariots2]

Jon Trickett ‏@jon_trickett 1m1 minute ago
117000 tweets and trending 4th worldwide. #CameonMustGo. We now speak to each other via social media, not through prism of right wing press

[HindleA]

If they can shoot rabbits....

[ephemerid]

Re. Twitter: #CameronMustGo is trending 4th - worldwide. (Miley Cyrus' birthday is a bit more important to the rest of the world.....)

Re. Heavy horses: I had a flat just round the corner from the Wandsworth Youngs Brewery. Had my wedding reception upstairs in the Brewery Tap, and the big horses were around a lot in those days (mid-late 80s) The mounted police trained their horses at Youngs, as there was one of those round sand things (cantering circles?) and you could see it from the road - I used to watch 'em for hours.

Re. bonkers Welsh retailers - I am liking the contributions so far. I saw a Bread of Evans somewhere, I love Veg of Evans, and we've got a man running the Post Office in Hay called Like the Post (he really is called Mr.Like) - but my favourite so far is still Jones the Cones.

Re. Fascism: the current government have all the characteristics of it; and I am absolutely serious when I say this.
The lies, the cover-ups, the propaganda, the subversion of democracy, the suppression of protest, the fawning on and fostering of elites - it's all there.
I am also absolutely serious when I say that I believe Cameron would stoop to anything to cling on, and I think he will exaggerate the terrorist threat soon.
Given his recent behaviour, I think he is a very angry and frightened man. He will fight tooth and nail to keep his position, and he is thus more dangerous than he's ever been. He won't win - his own party will see to that - but he'll make our lives a misery before he's gone.
If he actually manages to get into office again (most likely unelected like last time) we are in for some serious trouble. It can't go on like thsi.

[NonOxCol]

I've not yet read the article but a lot of what you say about it makes perfect sense. I've felt since 2010 that we were being 'shock doctrined' (and I think Naomi Klein's book should be required reading for anyone who wants to know why the world is how it is today). This notion only backs that up.

I read it in spring 2008. I re-read it in spring 2012. A new chapter on the right's response to the crash would have fit right in. She's spot on.

I can hear The Sunday Politics through the door as I write. A puff-piece for UKIP. It really is soul-destroying.

[Eric_WLothian]

Morning All.

What are the odds that this won't go any further before the GE?

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5413/ ... ch-officer

[Eric_WLothian]

Even though the SNP thing isn't a real problem for the left, as Sturgeon would never vote with the Tories - at least, not for the same reasons, its the old EVEL thing that will cause problems when talking about education health or those devolved welfare issues. In actual fact, its in Cameron's interests to devolve as much as possible because he's effectively denying Labour a vote on each measure. As budgets are still decided centrally, it won't be a problem in terms of whos PM, but it won't half make things awkward.

I wouldn't bet on the SNP not voting with the Tories if it suits their single policy. With reference to the Smith Commission:

Last night a source close to the negotiations said the “centre of gravity” of the talks had coalesced around the ­Tories and Lib Dems income tax plans.
A Labour insider said: “We have been forced to accept it. It’s an SNP/Tory stitch up. If we don’t accept it the Nats will say we are holding back Scotland and the Tories will say we are holding back devolution.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3613434

And, of course, health, education etc in England affect the devolved administrations through the Barnet formula.

[giselle97]

I've not yet read the article but a lot of what you say about it makes perfect sense. I've felt since 2010 that we were being 'shock doctrined' (and I think Naomi Klein's book should be required reading for anyone who wants to know why the world is how it is today). This notion only backs that up.

I read it in spring 2008. I re-read it in spring 2012. A new chapter on the right's response to the crash would have fit right in. She's spot on.

I can hear The Sunday Politics through the door as I write. A puff-piece for UKIP. It really is soul-destroying.

I bought Klein's Shock Doctrine, together with NHS plc by Allyson Pollock and The Plot Against The NHS by Colin Leys and Stewart Player. Theses books and Clegg were my conversion to becoming politically active.

Klein was complicated at first to read but then shock, awe and anger was the outcome for me!

I'm pleased to say that after the chill wind yesterday it is 69F and heading for 72F at La Cala Mijas as I eat my baked potato with tomato and onions in olive oil and balsamic vinegar on the balcony to be followed with some small sense of guilt by a slice of lemon meringue pie!! Will have long walk to compensate.

[george guessing]

Jon Trickett ‏@jon_trickett 1m1 minute ago
117000 tweets and trending 4th worldwide. #CameonMustGo. We now speak to each other via social media, not through prism of right wing press

Anybody pick up the small story about Tesco and Asda , I think , covering up the front pages of the scabrous tabloids ; just the title will be visible.
Imagine people not being able to see the front page , which is I'm led to believe supposed to register in the mind and draw people in. Watch Cameron try to claim this as his idea instead of the parental power behind it.
Manners , sorry , morning all.

[seeingclearly]

There is no question in my mind now that these people are fascists. They have all the characteristics. I was watching a film last night called Bunker in which Anthony Hopkins played Hitler in his last days - although it's not accurate, I was struck anew by the way an entire nation was bamboozled into letting horrific things happen.

Cameron and his henchmen aren't even bothering to pretend any more. We've had nearly 5 years of clever-clever manipulation of words and obfuscation, and IDS with his denials of the obvious stood out - now they're all like him. Cameron and Osborne and the blatant lying when they got back from the EU, May and Gove attempting to subvert Parliamentary procedure, they're all at it.

I've said thousands of times in the past few years that we are being lied to on a massive scale - they were careful about it for a while but the gloves are off now. This week, the G has had an article from OGRFG, the hideous Zahawi, and now Beaker - all lies and very very obvious propaganda designed to convince us that they have our best interests at heart.

This is how it starts - convince the people that some among them are a bit different, then convince them that those people cost a lot of money and aren't like the good guys. Then marginalise them, cut off their support (personal as well as financial), make them work for their pittance, remove their services, all the while pretending that they are the source for all our troubles.
Next - pretend there is a clear and present danger, indulge in warlike rhetoric, encourage people to think they are hardworking plucky little souls with the machinery of government supporting them, and demonise the enemy within whilst whipping up hatred of all things foreign and making out that only "we" can save the nation from it all.

And if all that doesn't work, suppress protest and claim that it's necessary to keep the nation safe from its enemies. Fascism.

I can't stop thinking about the f-word either. Judging from Twitter, we're far from alone.

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... r-sun-says" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't agree with everything in it. I'm still firmly behind Miliband and Labour. The principal flaw of her argument is that the overwhelming onslaught of the right-wing media (including the BBC, which no longer deserves any benefit of the doubt whatsoever) is not a recent phenomenon; it began in 2009 with deficit hysteria. I really have no idea how a knackered Labour government was supposed to cut through all that and create a "social democratic moment". I'm still dizzied by how successful the right was in transforming the narrative within months of the crash. Almost everything we're stuck with now can be traced back to 2009. In this context, the most significant new development of the coalition years is not, per se, the rise of UKIP and the pathetic, fawning coverage of their "insurrection", but the fact that Clegg's actions between May and December 2010 had a spectacular multiplier effect on political apathy and cynicism. It's amazing that the article misses that.

But, having said all that, no article has come closer to summing up how I've felt for the last 48 hours.

Morning all. I'd just like to gently, because it's Sunday and still before noon, challenge that 2009 reference. I'd date it to well before that, perhaps 2005. It seems to have been a continuum from at least the beginning of GBs time as PM. it would also have taken longer for the Tories to have put together their plan of action, they shot off the starting blocks in 2010, and were legislating on all kinds within months. That takes preparation, and the media onslaught was part of it. Not to be confused with the Blair glory days of spin, the flavour is different.

I remember the horse drawn deliveries too, what a delight to read people's memories of them. In the summer our milkman used to allow kids to sit on the end of his dray, legs swinging, and hand him the bottles. Even silver top had cream that rose to the top, and in winter the sparrows would get to it before mum sent us to bring the bottles in. Our coal was delivered by horse drawn drays too, the coal men were big and muscley and covered in coal dust. They signalled that winter was coming, and that my brother and I would take turns in filling the coal bucket every evening. There were tigers on the landing so it was a job we did very quickly. We had a monthly delivery right up to the sixties, and our house had a disused coach house on one side. In the hayloft there was an immense sack of sugar cubes that someone had stashed away during the war. Horses were always greeted with sugarcubes by our gate, we would be bouncy with anticipation by the time they got there and I don't think my brother and I missed a single visit; they were beautiful great things, piebald, hairy-hoofed and snorty, and an absolute delight, though just a little bit scary too. Groceries were delivered by the bicycle boy who lived in the next road down. A blessing for mum once my brother was no longer in a pram. The last winter I remember I was 13, starting to grow up, and only my brother bounced for the horses, though we both fed them, it was 1963, and the only winter I remember that we didn't bring in the coal. The icicles from the eaves of our house were around seven foot long, and mum didn't trust us not to forget about not walking under them. It's a sign of the current times that autocorrect did not like the word 'dray' and replaced it first with x-Ray and then with pray!

[WelshIan]

I've not yet read the article but a lot of what you say about it makes perfect sense. I've felt since 2010 that we were being 'shock doctrined' (and I think Naomi Klein's book should be required reading for anyone who wants to know why the world is how it is today). This notion only backs that up.

I read it in spring 2008. I re-read it in spring 2012. A new chapter on the right's response to the crash would have fit right in. She's spot on.

I can hear The Sunday Politics through the door as I write. A puff-piece for UKIP. It really is soul-destroying.

I haven't read The Shock Doctrine, it has now been added to my list.

The book I am seeing parallels with is A Very British Coup by Chris Mullin. I keep a book diary, and this is what I wrote about it: A plausible scenario with the Establishment bringing down a left wing government.
We are now at the stage where the Establishment is doing all they can to stop a vaguely left wing government being elected, and they are not even being particularly subtle about it any more.

[adam]

Monbiot's 'Captive State', published back in 2000, is a good look at the precursors of TTIP, amongst other things.

[AngryAsWell]

Morning all
To add to the right wing discussion, here's some more news suppression

#CameronMustGo: 107,000 Tweets Decry PM's Policies on Welfare, NHS and Banker's Bonuses on Sunday Morning

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cameronmustgo- ... ng-1476144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AngryAsWell]

Martin Rowson ‏@MartinRowson · 46 secs47 seconds ago
I could get used to not filing a Graun toon on a Sunday so my soul'd be unsullied by the gallimaufry of these ludicrous cunts in the "news"

[NonOxCol]

Morning all. I'd just like to gently, because it's Sunday and still before noon, challenge that 2009 reference. I'd date it to well before that, perhaps 2005. It seems to have been a continuum from at least the beginning of GBs time as PM. it would also have taken longer for the Tories to have put together their plan of action, they shot off the starting blocks in 2010, and were legislating on all kinds within months. That takes preparation, and the media onslaught was part of it. Not to be confused with the Blair glory days of spin, the flavour is different.

Hello. You may well be right - I was ill from December 2005 to March 2008, and everything that happened in politics, culture and sport (usually three massive areas of interest) was nothing more than background noise.

The crash of autumn 2008 was such a huge event, that the right's direct response to it still takes my breath away. That's all I was passing comment on, and that's the only reason I chose 2009 as a watershed year (from memory, they waited until after Christmas before turning the deficit hysteria and really poisonous anti-Brown rhetoric up to 11). Of course, given how successful they were, it would not surprise me if certain elements of the strategy were already in place before the crash.

Edited for rogue 'i' in poisonous.