Monday 24th November 2014

[rebeccariots2]

Bonnie Greer retweeted
John Prescott @johnprescott · 33m 33 minutes ago
Genuinely think watching the test card would be more informative that this Owen Paterson interview #newsnight

It really was quite something.

Total failure to answer Evan Davis' repeated point that the 'Norwegian' model of being part of the single market but not a full member of the EU still means they have to comply with all the regulations - business and social. Or that article 50, once invoked, is pretty much irrevocable exit as the country invoking it has to leave - it would take all the other EU countries to vote to accept to keep you in should the country change its mind and want to stay ...

Clear that Paterson has leadership of the Tories in his sights though. Very clear. Another one who thinks he should get to do something because he thinks he'd be good at it. He kept insisting that he knew (yes he knew) that his views were truly representative of the Conservative grass roots. Gave an example of a teacher who had heard him speak earlier today who came up to him and said he had been waiting a long time to hear a Conservative say those things ... and, of course, he's coming back from Ukip. Paterson the saviour.

[citizenJA]

Owen Patterson is no more competent running a Dyson mini-vac - let him nowhere near a Wind Turbine or a political leadership position - does his constituency know what he gets up to?

[citizenJA]

I think Tristram Hunt's article in the G is a fine game-changer. Please let me know if I'm mistaken, anyone. ChrisDean, everyone, thank you. I love you people. Have a good night. I write & read more soon.

Love,
JA

[rebeccariots2]

Owen Patterson is no more competent running a Dyson mini-vac - let him nowhere near a Wind Turbine or a political leadership position - does his constituency know what he gets up to?

I believe he's in one of the safest Tory seats going Citizen. So either they are fully aware of, and happy with, what he gets up to ... or they're all asleep or their attention is otherwise occupied when it comes to voting.

(By the way - I tried a Dyson vac once (not a mini one), it was damn complicated and heavy to use - I hated it and have never used one again. You are right, it would be way beyond Paterson.)

[ChrisDean]

@ErnstRemarx.

Thank you, but I do feel somewhat of a "sinner" here, having bought my council house in 1983, when I became "established" in the Civil Service, and thought to myself well I can get this shoddy roof and wind buckling windows replaced...took me 25 years and very high interest rates to pay for it all...I'm still here and not a "buy to let" type of person. Getting, of course, a very meagre return on what little savings I have, but it helps the kids today with their mortgages, no problem.

There ya go then, I've opened up.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Engineering jobs
http://www.justengineers.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Including.....

Automotive jobs
Aviation jobs
Building Services jobs
Construction jobs
Defence jobs
Environmental jobs
FMCG jobs
Highways & Transport jobs
Manufacturing jobs
Mining jobs
Nuclear jobs
Oil & Gas jobs
Power & Energy jobs
Rail jobs
Scientific jobs
Telecommunications jobs
Utilities jobs
Water jobs
Renewable Energy jobs

(started new thread as other a bit long..)

Dude, I work in the industry. I am aware that jobs exist.

Now go and compare the size of our Engineering sector with France, Germany and America. Which is kind of my point.

The conversation was centred on cars, racing and vacuum cleaners, I checked other areas.
If we don't have a skilled workforce we ain't going to build anything never mind rebuild industries.
I think that's the point of EdM drive for more qualified engineers - no?
Dude? Hum. There was no suggestion that you, or anyone, doesn't know jobs exist. Just an attempt to widen the conversation. I'll give that one up then.

No it is a fair point, I am just snappy today, sorry about that.

The problem is the UK specialised in financial services pretty much to the exclusion of dirty engineering. All of our major companies (well not all but the vast majority) got taken over by large foreign companies, often asset stripped and shut down.

This is an issue because the R&D typically resides in the multinational owner even if they leave manufacturing local. Siemens UK is the UK arm of a huge German company, their key R&D is German. Motorsport is oddly an exception, but the engines are of course foreign.

If Ed's plans are to work we need an industrial policy and an investment bank (please drop the Green tag as lots of engineering is worth investing in). We also need to stop foreign companies buying out and shutting down our innovative startups.

Linking this industrial policy with academia and research, plus a hit of devolution, may well over 10 years start to fulfil the promise Ed holds out. But my point is without this additional support all our trained engineers will do is emigrate.

[Tizme1]

Evening all. I've been too hectic to post the last few days and have been busy trying to catch up.

@Tubby - I saw your comment from Friday evening apologising if you'd caused offence - thank you. In like spirit, my apologies if my comments caused offence.
.

It's fine, no problem.

Nice to see you here again.

Thank you. I am still looking for answers to the particular questions I have regarding Citizens Income, plus I have taken on board the questions raised by various FTN's. I will report back as and when.

[Tizme1]

Evening all. I've been too hectic to post the last few days and have been busy trying to catch up.

@Tubby - I saw your comment from Friday evening apologising if you'd caused offence - thank you. In like spirit, my apologies if my comments caused offence.

I'm wondering if you can all help me with something. I read a blog the other day by an ex Labour person who has switched to Green. Most of what they had written I agreed with. However,they claimed Labour were going to stop benefits for under 25's. I know the Tories have made suggestions along those lines but I don't recall even Reeves suggesting that. Anyone know where this idea may have come from? I'm guessing it may be to do with the Jobs Guarantee idea but I'm not sure.

Jobs Guarantee scheme, if a young person does not have the literacy or numeracy to enable them to get a job then they will be offered training to bring them to employable standards. If they refuse the training they will forfeit right to JSA. It is hoped that people with special needs who missed being "spotted" at school will get the extra help needed.
For the age group 16 - 25 (?) without skills JSA will be stopped and replaced by a Youth Allowance (equal to JSA) this means that if a young person wants to go to collage to train some more, they can without losing benefit. Currently a youngster on JSA cannot go to collage unless they forfeit JSA because under JSA "terms" they have to be available for work at all times, if they in collage they are deemed to be unavailable.
On the down side, Youth Allowance will be means tested using parents income, I think the upper limit will be around £44k - or whatever the University means test is as it will be set on par with that.

Thank you AAW. This was the policy suggestion I was thinking of and as I said, I don't consider that the same thing as denying benefits to all under 25's. Thank you also to RR and TE for your replies. Relieved to know my memory isn't that bad and I hadn't forgotten/missed some major announcement. Obviously as a Green I have a different view on such matters BUT I'm relieved to know that my memory was right and Labour policy is not how it was being portrayed.

[danesclose]

The only issue I have with this is the need for more Engineers?

Really, where are they going to work?

Rolls Royce just announced layoffs, Marconi - gone, Rover - gone, BAE looking iffy.

We seem to have very few engineering companies. So what the UK needs is more Engineering companies first, then more engineers. However since most UK companies are run by useless accountants who refuse to take risk and invest I can't see it.

There are a couple of exceptions to this doom, but they are exceptions.

Depends what type of engineer.
My son has just started a degree in Electrical Engineering. The course tutor has told him that due to power companies reducing apprenticeships, and the old guard retiring, they will require twice the number of graduates in Electrical Engineering over the next 5 years
One of my other sons is looking at studying Chemical Engineering - the oil companies in Scotland are paying a fortune to graduates

[seeingclearly]

Was very bemused by the talk of engineers and Polish workers, etc. surely to built for the future do anything forward looking people with engineering skills are needed. Whether it were hi speed rail, high rise buildings, new manufacturing, whatever, if British people are to do the work then they need an understand of how things work.

On the matter of why use Polish workers, something anecdotal. I'll start by saying they aren't just respected as workers here, but throughout Western Europe, with good reason.

I spent a fair amount of time in France a few years ago, fulfilling a voluntary role. On the same site was a massive building project that had taken many years to get off the ground.

A Polish company won the building contract, they rolled in complete with everything they would need, were welbehaved and respectful on site and off, and completed their part of the project exactly to the day. Cue celebrations all round. The next day they were gone, off to start a new job in Germany. They weren't ripped off, they had their own very good facilities, meals cooked onsite, good sleeping quarters, they were just organised and disciplined. In France this is virtually unheard of, building projects regularly drag on and go over budget. The next stage of the project was electrical, and the French company that did the work were every bit as slow and ineffective as locals expected them to be.

That's why Polish workers get contracts, they've got a good reputation for being very reliable and delivering what they are contracted to do. Mostly pretty well educated too.

[ErnstRemarx]

@ErnstRemarx.

Thank you, but I do feel somewhat of a "sinner" here, having bought my council house in 1983, when I became "established" in the Civil Service, and thought to myself well I can get this shoddy roof and wind buckling windows replaced...took me 25 years and very high interest rates to pay for it all...I'm still here and not a "buy to let" type of person. Getting, of course, a very meagre return on what little savings I have, but it helps the kids today with their mortgages, no problem.

There ya go then, I've opened up.

No worries, I quite understand people owning their own place - I do (well, bits of it) - and it's nice of you to reveal a bit more about yourself.