Friday 28th January 2022

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Locked
User avatar
refitman
Site Admin
Posts: 7693
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom

Friday 28th January 2022

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 11115
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Good morning.

I can see this report, when it finally turns up, being a bit of a damp squib. And then the Met conveniently will find nothing wrong.

If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
notnowsonny
Committee Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun 12 Apr, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by notnowsonny »

@sky from last night

Please carry on with the QT reviews. I frequently watch the programme on catch-up because something you’ve written catches my eye!
frog222
Prime Minister
Posts: 5340
Joined: Sun 29 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by frog222 »

RogerOThornhill wrote: Fri 28 Jan, 2022 9:14 am Good morning.
I can see this report, when it finally turns up, being a bit of a damp squib. And then the Met conveniently will find nothing wrong.
frog222
Prime Minister
Posts: 5340
Joined: Sun 29 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by frog222 »

notnowsonny wrote: Fri 28 Jan, 2022 10:15 am @sky from last night
Please carry on with the QT reviews. I frequently watch the programme on catch-up because something you’ve written catches my eye!
Yes, much appreciated !
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 11115
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Yes, this bit.
Lionel Barber
@lionelbarber
Met position unfathomable: first, nothing to see here. Then, after Sue Gray conducts a proper investigation, they big foot a report which would have laid bare Covid rule-breaking under the noses of the coppers in Downing Street. Am I missing something?
9:07 AM · Jan 28, 2022·Twitter for iPad
Dick ought to now explain why something didn't need to be investigated, but now she wants all details of what she didn't want investigated removed!
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Most people will see it as a cover up - which it is.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by gilsey »

There you go. Johnson'll be celebrating this weekend.


That Byline TV film of the lorry drivers has found its way to Samuel West, who has 85k followers.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by gilsey »

Anyone wanting more discussion of the ins and outs of partygate, Adam Wagner's thread and replies seems to cover all the bases.

One world, like it or not - John Martyn
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.

Sue Gray must be complicit in this - or at least have had her arm twisted. She could and should have moved when the Met first said that she could do so. Instead, she delayed and allowed enough time for Boris Johnson to marshall his forces (otherwise known as Cressida Dick and the Met).
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by Willow904 »

Is it just me or are Tory MPs actually trying to get away with pretending they're on the public's side and upset about the NI hike they all voted for? It's like Jeremy Hunt wistfully lamenting what a terrible state the NHS was in when he was Health Secretary - like it had absolutely nothing to do with him. Do politicians in other countries get away with this? Or is it just us with our conniving press?
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PorFavor wrote: Fri 28 Jan, 2022 12:03 pm Good morfternoon.

Sue Gray must be complicit in this - or at least have had her arm twisted. She could and should have moved when the Met first said that she could do so. Instead, she delayed and allowed enough time for Boris Johnson to marshall his forces (otherwise known as Cressida Dick and the Met).
Though didn't the Met originally brief that they had no problem with Gray going ahead?

One reason why this looks rather like Dick repaying favours.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote: Fri 28 Jan, 2022 1:07 pm
PorFavor wrote: Fri 28 Jan, 2022 12:03 pm Good morfternoon.

Sue Gray must be complicit in this - or at least have had her arm twisted. She could and should have moved when the Met first said that she could do so. Instead, she delayed and allowed enough time for Boris Johnson to marshall his forces (otherwise known as Cressida Dick and the Met).
Though didn't the Met originally brief that they had no problem with Gray going ahead?

One reason why this looks rather like Dick repaying favours.
Yes they did, but I go back to my original point that Sue Gray allowed space for things to have taken the turn that they have. She can't be so naive as to not have seen the distinct possibility of this development. I'm assuming that the report was in a "ready to go" state when the Met gave its original go-ahead. So, if that was the case, the question remains: why did Sue Gray hold back on releasing it - thus giving Cressida Dick the chance to formulate excuses to (as you no doubt rightly say) "repay favours"?
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by PorFavor »

We can but hope. Although I'm running on fumes at this point.
Senior lawyers were today split over whether the Met was justified in asking Sue Gray to only make minimal references to events under investigation.

Nazir Afzal, the former chief prosecutor, who has been critical of the police for not investigating parties in Downing Street, wrote:

This is absolute nonsense from the Met Police.

A purely factual report by Sue Gray cannot possibly prejudice a police investigation.

They just have to follow the evidence, of which the report will be a part.

Andrew Keogh, the barrister who runs the criminal law resource CrimeLine, wrote that there is a possibility that proceedings are already active – so an arrest, warrant, or proceedings issues could be imminent – and the Met’s request ‘seems sensible”. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Edited - typo
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I mean "the cover-up was worse than the crime" is a commonly used phrase for a reason.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by gilsey »

Willow904 wrote: Fri 28 Jan, 2022 12:48 pm Is it just me or are Tory MPs actually trying to get away with pretending they're on the public's side and upset about the NI hike they all voted for?
I wasn't in favour of raising taxes at all, because of the perilous state of the economy after Brexit, but it's actually going to raise a lot of dosh from the higher parts of the earned income scale. NI as a whole is regressive but this increase isn't.
Such are the cost of living challenges facing the poorest (quarter? third?) that a bit more NI will be neither here nor there, rather like Labour's beloved VAT on fuel.

The advantage is that we'll be able to point to it whenever* they're trying to cut NHS services. Hang on, we're paying this extra tax that you said would fund it properly .....


* like, all the time
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by Willow904 »

The NI rise was supposed to pay for social care, wasn't it? You may be right that disowning it might not be as popular as backbench Tories think. Paying more tax to fund health and social care is often quite popular with the public. I wonder if they're worried that if they defend the tax to pay for health and social care people might expect it to translate into better services. When we all know it's just going to disappear into the black hole of Covid and privatisation.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6175
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by gilsey »

Social Care gets some of it in the third year, or something like that, even then it's not actually for better services, just to stop a few comfortably off people losing their inheritance.
I wonder if they're worried that if they defend the tax to pay for health and social care people might expect it to translate into better services
Yes.

I'd guess it's partly that and partly kneejerk tory aversion to higher taxes/public spending.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Yes that's pretty powerful.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 8083
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

notnowsonny wrote: Fri 28 Jan, 2022 10:15 am @sky from last night

Please carry on with the QT reviews. I frequently watch the programme on catch-up because something you’ve written catches my eye!
Will do, I daresay a sober viewing bares little resemblance to my drunken ramblings.
notnowsonny
Committee Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun 12 Apr, 2015 10:34 am

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by notnowsonny »

@sky

Perhaps, rather, your enhanced awareness brings something else to the game!
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15626
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Looks like the Met have at least partially backed down and Gray's report might appear next week with some relatively limited redactions.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by tinyclanger2 »

A place for everything and everthing in its place - including entoptic phenomena (sensu Richard Rudgley)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by PorFavor »

Sue Gray report: redacted version is imminent, say government sources (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -partygate

User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by tinyclanger2 »

God it's depressing.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by PorFavor »

Yes, isn't it just? But I'd be doing my best Boris Johnson impression if I said I was surprised.
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by PorFavor »

And I think he's enjoying it.
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Friday 28th January 2022

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Many high-scoring countries with relatively “clean” public sectors also continue to enable transnational corruption – with consequences for their own corruption levels.
score 78 United Kingdom rank 11

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021/index/gbr
maybe a review of the index is in order
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Locked