Thursday 4th September 2014

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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Danny Finkelstein looking an arse.

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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

odysseanproject ‏@odysseanproject 1h
@DisIdealist @warwickmansell @BeckyFrancis7 Don't look for logic. When ppl out of their depth operate in chaos what u see is what u get
Cummings not impressed with Morgan.
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

Scottish Independence: Nigel Farage accuses Alex Salmond of ‘stirring up excessive nationalism’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sc ... 11666.html

It feels increasingly like I'm living in La-La land.

Edited, ever so late :o
Last edited by ohsocynical on Thu 04 Sep, 2014 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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letsskiptotheleft
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

ohsocynical wrote:Scottish Independence: Nigel Farage accuses Alex Salmond of ‘stirring up excessive nationalism’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sc ... 11666.html

It feels increasingly like living in La-La land.
Reading Mark Ferguson twitter feed it hasn't been too pleasant today up there, some Nat said to Margaret Curran ''you should be ashamed to be Scottish'' sound horrible, reminds me of when there was an Eistedffod around here years ago, a North Walian said to me ''call yourself Welsh, you can't even speak it'' as he was drunk he kept on, until I poured a pint over his head.

Nationalism can turn viscous , I hope it gets no worse up there. But agree, Farage is a right one to talk.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Gawd bless Shiny Dave, he really doesn't have a clue, does he?
This is also the right place to discuss defence. Wales has more castles, medieval castles per head than anywhere else in the world, around 640 of them, and I hope that will be something you’ll get to visit while you’re in Wales at this conference.
Yes Dave, the castles built by the Normans and Plantagenets (especially Edward I) to subjugate and contain the defeated Welsh. Not so much shining beacons of defence, but solid & lasting symbols of aggression and oppression.
:lol: :lol:

He really is the emptiest PR conman ever, isn't he? That bit of speel is pure plonkerism.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Christ, is this Johnson producing something useful?

http://www.citymetric.com/two-new-cycli ... ned-london" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Watch out for Andrew Gilligan's press pals big him up.

Includes a plan to run a cycle lane through the godawful Parliament Square traffic. Whole darned thing needs sorting out. Two of the most famous buildings situated in a dump.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Scottish Independence: Nigel Farage accuses Alex Salmond of ‘stirring up excessive nationalism’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sc ... 11666.html

It feels increasingly like living in La-La land.
Reading Mark Ferguson twitter feed it hasn't been too pleasant today up there, some Nat said to Margaret Curran ''you should be ashamed to be Scottish'' sound horrible, reminds me of when there was an Eistedffod around here years ago, a North Walian said to me ''call yourself Welsh, you can't even speak it'' as he was drunk he kept on, until I poured a pint over his head.

Nationalism can turn viscous , I hope it gets no worse up there. But agree, Farage is a right one to talk.
Brilliant typo there letsskip. :lol: Nationalism can turn 'viscous'.

It sure can be very nastily sticky ... eggs anyone?
Working on the wild side.
letsskiptotheleft
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Scottish Independence: Nigel Farage accuses Alex Salmond of ‘stirring up excessive nationalism’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sc ... 11666.html

It feels increasingly like living in La-La land.
Reading Mark Ferguson twitter feed it hasn't been too pleasant today up there, some Nat said to Margaret Curran ''you should be ashamed to be Scottish'' sound horrible, reminds me of when there was an Eistedffod around here years ago, a North Walian said to me ''call yourself Welsh, you can't even speak it'' as he was drunk he kept on, until I poured a pint over his head.

Nationalism can turn viscous , I hope it gets no worse up there. But agree, Farage is a right one to talk.
Brilliant typo there letsskip. :lol: Nationalism can turn 'viscous'.

It sure can be very nastily sticky ... eggs anyone?
Hah! Bloody Knackered, I should be sleeping instead of writing typos..
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

David Lammy putting his name into the hat for London mayor must be pretty underwhelming, for Londoners?
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by StephenDolan »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Well known Marxist James Forsyth declares the election is Miliband's to lose and Tory MPs are planning their careers of outside Parliament. :lol: Still, wish he wouldn't make statements like that, I can remember '92.


http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/930 ... dont-rule/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ouch, that's a pretty bruising piece. There's very few columnists out there that like Dave now. Shame.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

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http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index. ... -findings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

The Sparrow does a good line in sarcasm, at times, under a twitter pic of Cardiff Castle, he wrote ''Cardiff Castle, one of the 640 Cameron spoke about earlier''

:lol:
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

''Blairforce One'' is there an insect spray to get rid of these people?

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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Hang on just a min.

That YouGov poll again, from the PB site.
YouGov, of course, made big methodological changes to their Scottish polls in mid-August. Until then they hadn’t been including 1-17 years olds and they now have a weighting based on whether people were born in Scotland.
Release the Guardvarks.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:David Lammy putting his name into the hat for London mayor must be pretty underwhelming, for Londoners?
Most of that list are underwhelming. Sadiq will be better in Cabinet, my personal preference is Christian, who knows his stuff (he has written extensively on London, especially the transport issues) and doesn't have any real baggage ....so it will be one of the others!!!
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Temulkar
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Temulkar »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:David Lammy putting his name into the hat for London mayor must be pretty underwhelming, for Londoners?
Most of that list are underwhelming. Sadiq will be better in Cabinet, my personal preference is Christian, who knows his stuff (he has written extensively on London, especially the transport issues) and doesn't have any real baggage ....so it will be one of the others!!!
Knowing Londoners it wouldn't surprise me if Eddie Izzard won, couldn't be worse than the clown they have got at the moment.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
odysseanproject ‏@odysseanproject 1h
@DisIdealist @warwickmansell @BeckyFrancis7 Don't look for logic. When ppl out of their depth operate in chaos what u see is what u get
Cummings not impressed with Morgan.
He's talking about the people in No 10 whose leak it was. Cummings has been very scathing about them interfering before.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

StephenDolan wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Well known Marxist James Forsyth declares the election is Miliband's to lose and Tory MPs are planning their careers of outside Parliament. :lol: Still, wish he wouldn't make statements like that, I can remember '92.


http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/930 ... dont-rule/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ouch, that's a pretty bruising piece. There's very few columnists out there that like Dave now. Shame.
Mostly barking mad BTL I note.

It's a highly thoughtful piece, and as someone who rarely agrees with Forsyth, it's interesting to see that he's hit all the bases with the criticisms in the article. There's nothing there, I think, that we all haven't said on FTN over the last year or more, yet Forsyth with his undoubted access to MPs and ministers has produced something of a tour de force, with some of the juiciest quotes I've seen in a long time.

A far cry from Nick Watt/Nick Robinson with their interminable 'sources in Westminster'. I now more fully understand the forces ranged against Cameron on the right (not that I feel much pity for him, mind), and see how the tectonic plates are grinding Cameron between them.

An excellent article that should be more widely read (but without the mouthbreather commentary below it).
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Eric_WLothian »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Hang on just a min.

That YouGov poll again, from the PB site.
YouGov, of course, made big methodological changes to their Scottish polls in mid-August. Until then they hadn’t been including 1-17 years olds and they now have a weighting based on whether people were born in Scotland.
Panelbase polls have generally shown a greater pro-independence preference than other polls. They apparently had problems with excessive numbers of nationalists signing up.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3080830
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

''Douglas Carswell is Farage's bitch'' ouch, I bet that hurt, is it me or have things turned decidedly bonkers this week?


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Eric_WLothian »

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Indeed, very interesting stuff. So would Cameron be forced out a matter of months before a full UK wide general election? It would be a gift to all non-government parties. Mind you, knowing the shameless, bacon faced PR man as we do, does anyone believe that he'd not mount a last ditch rearguard action, leading to the mass implosion of the Tory party?

I think we would be moving into uncharted waters ina very big way.
Dave's said he won't go after a 'yes' vote and Salmond's said he won't go after a 'no' vote - so it seems we're stuck with them both until the relevant elections!

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3531036

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3531594

With regard to the 'devo-max' comments above, I don't see how it could have been a referendum option. Firstly, it has never been defined; secondly, it would have meant extending the referendum to the whole of the UK. Scotland can vote on whether to stay in the club - but it can't vote to change the rules of the club without the consent of all the members.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

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TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Gawd bless Shiny Dave, he really doesn't have a clue, does he?
This is also the right place to discuss defence. Wales has more castles, medieval castles per head than anywhere else in the world, around 640 of them, and I hope that will be something you’ll get to visit while you’re in Wales at this conference.
Yes Dave, the castles built by the Normans and Plantagenets (especially Edward I) to subjugate and contain the defeated Welsh. Not so much shining beacons of defence, but solid & lasting symbols of aggression and oppression.
He'll know that, the 'Camberons' were part of the Norman invasion and helped themselves to the spoils iirc.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

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Been busy of late, have lurked and had the news on but missing general chat.

Is it me or has it become more evident of late that Cameron is way out of his depth on all matters?
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Oh dear, things not looking good at Birbalsingh's school...

Michaela parent interviews cancelled as school remains a building site

http://wembleymatters.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... l?spref=tw
We checked to see if there were any entrances we had missed. But no, there was only one way in and that definitely looked like only builders should enter wearing the required hard hat. On the Michaela website it had announced that staff would be in from today and parents would be invited in over the next two weeks for interviews.

On checking the website again today it now says the parent interviews have been cancelled. Oh dear. Does that mean those much vaunted behaviour contracts won't be signed before children are allowed in the school? Will children arrive with the wrong socks and different coloured shoe laces and be sent home before they get a chance to set foot in the door?

Well, as you can see from the photo there may not be a door ready for them to come in. Wondering what was happening, I checked with the foreman. No-one was expected on site and no-one had requested permission to do so. He was confident that everything would be ready on time for the children in two weeks time (but actually it's only 8 days away) well at least a few rooms on the first and second floor. But ready in what sense? No playground area for sure, not that there will be much of that anyway even when it is finished.
Great policy. Convert buildings totally unsuited to be a schools and then not be ready in time for term starting....inlcuding not being able to meet parents beforehand.

t gets worse...according to their website they have "Teaching Fellows".

It's a school not a freaking college or university. Delusions of grandeur.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

diGriz wrote:Been busy of late, have lurked and had the news on but missing general chat.

Is it me or has it become more evident of late that Cameron is way out of his depth on all matters?

He always has been but I think he's made so many blunders that our news media is finally catching on. Or rather are unable to ignore it any more.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Interesting...the last time I looked at the list of governors for Birbalsingh's school they had two governors whose names caught my eye when I wrote this last year:

http://flythenest.freeforums.org/is-the ... -t463.html
A couple of local people which is fine - have no problem with that but read on...

Daisy Christodoulou
Governor for Knowledge


Hang on...I know that name. yes, that's the Daisy Christodoulou of the Curriculum Centre popping up again.(4)

Oh and:

Harriet Sergeant
Harriet is a journalist, author and Research Fellow for the Centre for Policy Studies, and independent Think Tank
http://www.mcsbrent.co.uk/governors/

But look now and these two seem to have bailed out. Wonder why they've gone even before the school has even opened?
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

Temulkar wrote: Knowing Londoners it wouldn't surprise me if Eddie Izzard won, couldn't be worse than the clown they have got at the moment.
Izzard has said if he stands it will be in 2020, so not this time around. Again, like Christian, he doesn't carry a mass of baggage and is well informed, so could be an eminently suitable choice.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by pk1 »

Unusual to see ITV news having unflattering images of Cameron:

Image

That's exactly as it appeared, not because of my crap photography.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

Eric_WLothian wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
Indeed, very interesting stuff. So would Cameron be forced out a matter of months before a full UK wide general election? It would be a gift to all non-government parties. Mind you, knowing the shameless, bacon faced PR man as we do, does anyone believe that he'd not mount a last ditch rearguard action, leading to the mass implosion of the Tory party?

I think we would be moving into uncharted waters ina very big way.
Dave's said he won't go after a 'yes' vote and Salmond's said he won't go after a 'no' vote - so it seems we're stuck with them both until the relevant elections!

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3531036

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3531594

With regard to the 'devo-max' comments above, I don't see how it could have been a referendum option. Firstly, it has never been defined; secondly, it would have meant extending the referendum to the whole of the UK. Scotland can vote on whether to stay in the club - but it can't vote to change the rules of the club without the consent of all the members.
Hi Eric, to my mind the DM question should have been the 'no' option on the ballot paper. Just as people who'll vote 'yes' aren't voting on a solid set of proposals, the DM/'no' option could be similarly viewed - nowt nailed down but the intention.

I don't believe the current settlement is sustainable for the Scots: if it were then Wee Eck's merry band wouldn't have got the traction they have. The Scots clearly like devolved government, and DM is a far better option than 'no' (ie, no change) and would have committed the UK government to think rather more carefully about the whole issue, as well as enabling pro-Union advocates to point to positive reasons for staying in. It would also shoot the 'yes' campaign's fox regarding negativism.

Just my opinion. It simply frustrates me that Cameron blithely set up a referendum that he was arrogant to assume he'd win without apparently ever giving any thought on how to entice Scots to stay in the UK.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh dear, things not looking good at Birbalsingh's school...

Michaela parent interviews cancelled as school remains a building site

http://wembleymatters.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... l?spref=tw
We checked to see if there were any entrances we had missed. But no, there was only one way in and that definitely looked like only builders should enter wearing the required hard hat. On the Michaela website it had announced that staff would be in from today and parents would be invited in over the next two weeks for interviews.

On checking the website again today it now says the parent interviews have been cancelled. Oh dear. Does that mean those much vaunted behaviour contracts won't be signed before children are allowed in the school? Will children arrive with the wrong socks and different coloured shoe laces and be sent home before they get a chance to set foot in the door?

Well, as you can see from the photo there may not be a door ready for them to come in. Wondering what was happening, I checked with the foreman. No-one was expected on site and no-one had requested permission to do so. He was confident that everything would be ready on time for the children in two weeks time (but actually it's only 8 days away) well at least a few rooms on the first and second floor. But ready in what sense? No playground area for sure, not that there will be much of that anyway even when it is finished.
Great policy. Convert buildings totally unsuited to be a schools and then not be ready in time for term starting....inlcuding not being able to meet parents beforehand.

t gets worse...according to their website they have "Teaching Fellows".

It's a school not a freaking college or university. Delusions of grandeur.
Reckon we might get a rather awkward stream of bad stories in the run up to the election? I'd have thought the DfE might have been advised to hold her school back another year.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Spacedone »

ohsocynical wrote:
diGriz wrote:Been busy of late, have lurked and had the news on but missing general chat.

Is it me or has it become more evident of late that Cameron is way out of his depth on all matters?

He always has been but I think he's made so many blunders that our news media is finally catching on. Or rather are unable to ignore it any more.
It might also be because of the last reshuffle. Cameron dumped most of his competent ministers like Hague, Grieve and Clarke, people who might actually argue with him about issues, and replaced them with right-wing ideologues and empty suits from lower ministerial positions... and then brought in more of the same to fill the vacant positions.

It's like watching a government being run by Tim Nice But Dim and his inbred cousins.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ephemerid »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Scottish Independence: Nigel Farage accuses Alex Salmond of ‘stirring up excessive nationalism’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sc ... 11666.html

It feels increasingly like living in La-La land.
Reading Mark Ferguson twitter feed it hasn't been too pleasant today up there, some Nat said to Margaret Curran ''you should be ashamed to be Scottish'' sound horrible, reminds me of when there was an Eistedffod around here years ago, a North Walian said to me ''call yourself Welsh, you can't even speak it'' as he was drunk he kept on, until I poured a pint over his head.

Nationalism can turn viscous , I hope it gets no worse up there. But agree, Farage is a right one to talk.

I've had that too, letskip - someone had a go at me saying I had no business here/bloody english/whatever.
I smiled very sweetly and asked if his mother hadn't taught him not to mock the afflicted.
Everyone laughed but him.....

I think most nationalities have a few rabid nasties who are, effectively, racist.
Sometimes Show really goes off on one at the Beeb when they get Welsh history wrong (as they frequently do) but he has as much contempt for the Welsh Language police as he does for the likes of Godfrey Bloom.

The current business in Scotland is bringing out the worst in some of the Nats; but that was inevitable, and my pals up there are saying that generally it's a good-natured (if sometimes very passionate) debate most of the time.

You find prats everywhere - and they tend to be concentrated in groups like UKIP who are basically not very intelligent....
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by diGriz »

Spacedone wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
diGriz wrote:Been busy of late, have lurked and had the news on but missing general chat.

Is it me or has it become more evident of late that Cameron is way out of his depth on all matters?

He always has been but I think he's made so many blunders that our news media is finally catching on. Or rather are unable to ignore it any more.
It might also be because of the last reshuffle. Cameron dumped most of his competent ministers like Hague, Grieve and Clarke, people who might actually argue with him about issues, and replaced them with right-wing ideologues and empty suits from lower ministerial positions... and then brought in more of the same to fill the vacant positions.

It's like watching a government being run by Tim Nice But Dim and his inbred cousins.
He just seems to be drifting. Says stuff, doesn't do anything.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

diGriz wrote:Been busy of late, have lurked and had the news on but missing general chat.

Is it me or has it become more evident of late that Cameron is way out of his depth on all matters?
Hi diGriz, a pleasure to see you round these parts - like the new place? Your room is just as you left it.

Cameron's got problems. That Forsyth article linked above is excellent reading and outlines a lot of the issues. To my mind, it's because he can't be arsed. He can do effort in increasingly short bursts, but actually knuckling down, putting in a shift every day and thinking carefully about where he's going seem to be things that aren't appealing to him - so he doesn't bother doing them.

In 2010, that wasn't as apparent a problem as it's increasingly become over the last few years; the media was heavily supportive, the public had given him the benefit of the doubt (if no ringing endorsement), his ministers 'believed' they knew the answers and Clegg was in his pocket, so he could coast, particularly as it began to look as though the more bonkers on his benches might get away with some pretty Friedmanite policies and ideas. The ideas and policies were fag packet stuff, but there was still an aura of credibility about the government.

Scroll forward to 2014 and survey the scene. Apart from the supine - I would say suicidal - acquiescence of the FibDems, a lot of the above has changed for the worse.

The media is now far more critical and aggressive towards him (not his rebels!), barring the BBC of course; the public have been making it increasingly clear that they don't like what's going on; pretty well all of the changes foisted upon the country have been, at best, of dubious benefit and at worst expensive ideological fuck ups that have impoverished the lives of voters; his ministers are seen largely as incompetent fools who won't listen to experts or even justify themselves in public; the policies are now just seen as an asset stripping exercise for the benefit of his mates.

And, the real killer, Europe. Cameron is, I suspect, a supporter of the UK's membership of the EU, regardless of the nonsense he utters to the great unwashed both at large and in his party. But it's precisely in his party where his biggest problems lie. They don't like him much, don't like TehGayz getting equal rights as a policy, they hate the EU with an intensity that borders upon psychopathy, loathe the welfare state and all things public sector and they probably wish for a leader who would "make the trains run on time" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

With that backdrop, the challenge from UKIP knocking on his door and the strong possibility that Scots will vote to go their own way, he's in extremely deep shit. If he were sensible, he'd start putting in 24 hour shifts for as long as it takes. The problem is he's just not like that. Brown was - as have other previous PMs - but not Cameron. If he's not overwhelmed in the outcome of the referendum by his right wingers, he will come May 2015. Regardless of whatever else happens to the Tories, Cameron will be gone.

Time, perhaps, for another holiday.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Dare I say it, the Prime Minister isn't looking terribly "prime ministerial" any more is he? :lol:
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by PorFavor »

Goodnight, everyone.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.
Night, PF.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

As I said yesterday, some in the media have also started to notice the Tory party isn't in a great state - intellectually or organisationally.

Also notable - in contrast to a year ago - that efforts to get anti-Ed bandwagons going in the media (most recently Watt the other day) are falling flat.

(all the more reason, btw, for Scots to put on their nose pegs and vote "no")
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Knowing Londoners it wouldn't surprise me if Eddie Izzard won, couldn't be worse than the clown they have got at the moment.
Izzard has said if he stands it will be in 2020, so not this time around. Again, like Christian, he doesn't carry a mass of baggage and is well informed, so could be an eminently suitable choice.
Eddie Izzard is - or would be - a good choice. I've heard him speak and it quickly became apparent that he has a good brain. I suspect he's not a full on lefty, but he's not shy, he knows whereof he speaks and he wears his heart on his sleeve. Him or David Lammy? That's an easy choice.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.
Night PF :)
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Dare I say it, the Prime Minister isn't looking terribly "prime ministerial" any more is he? :lol:
I could almost hear Jim Naughtie's inner giggle of disbelief at Cameron's response to his question this morning asking what Cameron was actually able to do about IS and their threat to kill the British hostage. You could hear Cameron's thought pauses (like in a job interview that's going pretty badly) as he searched for what he could say ... and came up with he's going to personally supervise getting everyone together from the Government, security forces and 'others' (you could really hear him searching before that word came out) to see what we can do ....

'Personally supervise' - what does that mean ... approve an invite list? It was waffle. The man is pathetic.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Dare I say it, the Prime Minister isn't looking terribly "prime ministerial" any more is he? :lol:
I could almost hear Jim Naughtie's inner giggle of disbelief at Cameron's response to his question this morning asking what Cameron was actually able to do about IS and their threat to kill the British hostage. You could hear Cameron's thought pauses (like in a job interview that's going pretty badly) as he searched for what he could say ... and came up with he's going to personally supervise getting everyone together from the Government, security forces and 'others' (you could really hear him searching before that word came out) to see what we can do ....

'Personally supervise' - what does that mean ... approve an invite list? It was waffle. The man is pathetic.
It's the illusion of activity. He's not given it much thought so time to fall back on the sound bites, regardless of how lame they come over as.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Eric_WLothian »

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: Dave's said he won't go after a 'yes' vote and Salmond's said he won't go after a 'no' vote - so it seems we're stuck with them both until the relevant elections!

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3531036

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3531594

With regard to the 'devo-max' comments above, I don't see how it could have been a referendum option. Firstly, it has never been defined; secondly, it would have meant extending the referendum to the whole of the UK. Scotland can vote on whether to stay in the club - but it can't vote to change the rules of the club without the consent of all the members.
Hi Eric, to my mind the DM question should have been the 'no' option on the ballot paper. Just as people who'll vote 'yes' aren't voting on a solid set of proposals, the DM/'no' option could be similarly viewed - nowt nailed down but the intention.

I don't believe the current settlement is sustainable for the Scots: if it were then Wee Eck's merry band wouldn't have got the traction they have. The Scots clearly like devolved government, and DM is a far better option than 'no' (ie, no change) and would have committed the UK government to think rather more carefully about the whole issue, as well as enabling pro-Union advocates to point to positive reasons for staying in. It would also shoot the 'yes' campaign's fox regarding negativism.

Just my opinion. It simply frustrates me that Cameron blithely set up a referendum that he was arrogant to assume he'd win without apparently ever giving any thought on how to entice Scots to stay in the UK.
I agree to a certain extent - but the 'no' argument is built on rational arguments, the 'yes' case is largely based on emotion. 'No' doesn't mean no change (the Scotland Act 2012 comes into force next year and will devolve more taxation powers to Holyrood). I would argue that 'no' represents gradual change which can be reversed if it goes pear-shaped. Immediate independence is irreversible.
If it were perfectly balanced, the referendum might say "rank in order of preference (a) independence; (b) Devo-Max; (c) the status quo; (d) scrap Holyrood.

The SNP have managed to make it Scotland vs Tories, which is wrong from two points of view. (1) Cameron and the Tories aren't a permanent fixture at No 10 and (2) 413,000 Scottish voters voted Tory (491,000 voted SNP) at the 2010 GE. It's difficult for the 'no' campaign to put forward a vision of the future when the three main participants only agree on a single issue of continuing the union. Alistair Darling's view of the future of the UK is (I hope) significantly different to Cameron's.

On a lighter note, I recently saw the "more pandas in Edinburgh Zoo than Scottish Tory MPs" jibe countered by "more chimps in Edinburgh Zoo than SNP MPs". :D
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

BBC Politics ‏@BBCPolitics 45m
The Lib Dems and Conservatives are set for a Commons showdown over the "bedroom tax" or "spare room subsidy". http://bbc.in/1Be6RaN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No they're not - you know - they're really not. The Lib Dems would consider wrinkling their collective nose at a fart as a 'showdown'. Andrew George's bill would make a terrible situation a bit better - but still leave a stinkingly bad and unjust policy in place. It will be interesting to see how many of his Lib Dem colleagues get behind it ... but showdown it won't be.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by frightful_oik »

Wasn't 'No' doing just fine until Callme decided to make a speech on the subject? Back in the spring I think. Then it started to go wrong.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Eric_WLothian »

ErnstRemarx wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Knowing Londoners it wouldn't surprise me if Eddie Izzard won, couldn't be worse than the clown they have got at the moment.
Izzard has said if he stands it will be in 2020, so not this time around. Again, like Christian, he doesn't carry a mass of baggage and is well informed, so could be an eminently suitable choice.
Eddie Izzard is - or would be - a good choice. I've heard him speak and it quickly became apparent that he has a good brain. I suspect he's not a full on lefty, but he's not shy, he knows whereof he speaks and he wears his heart on his sleeve. Him or David Lammy? That's an easy choice.
He's pretty good in "Castles in the Sky" too imo. (Saw it at the cinema, but it's on BBC2 tonight).
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I wonder if the recent polls in Scotland will actually concentrate minds in a way not entirely to Salmond's liking??

It is one thing to sound off about "Cameron......Tories......so I'm voting yes" when "no" looks certain to win anyway.

But if "the unthinkable" genuinely seems possible, some might actually think hard whether they *really* want to take such an irrevocable step?
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

... What do I think of Farage? Well it now seems that he has replaced democracy with his casting couch. Apparently if you fit the bill he will slip you into the position of his choice. Now that Douglas Carswell is Nigel’s bitch, he will perpetually be picking up the political equivalent of prison soap. Trust me on that one...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... s-carswell
Oh, I say ... :shock:
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I wonder if the recent polls in Scotland will actually concentrate minds in a way not entirely to Salmond's liking??

It is one thing to sound off about "Cameron......Tories......so I'm voting yes" when "no" looks certain to win anyway.

But if "the unthinkable" genuinely seems possible, some might actually think hard whether they *really* want to take such an irrevocable step?
I'd like to think you may be right. The irrevocable nature of voting YES is what is hitting me, and probably a lot of others, most hard in these last couple of weeks. There is no turning around in a few months or years time. And what is going on in Europe is less than reassuring at the same time.
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Re: Thursday 4th September 2014

Post by Spacedone »

Eric_WLothian wrote:He's pretty good in "Castles in the Sky" too imo. (Saw it at the cinema, but it's on BBC2 tonight).
Thanks for reminding me, I'd forgotten that was on.
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