Tuesday 25th November 2014

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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Hadn't seen that IDS has said the "bulk" of claimants will not be on UC till 2019.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hadn't seen that IDS has said the "bulk" of claimants will not be on UC till 2019.
He has missed a 0 off the end of that. 20190.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by citizenJA »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:A line from Sticky99's post earlier today -
Public transport is excellent to London and the town centre, everywhere else it is wholly inadequate.
citizenJA -
The rest of the country can have the excellent public transportation London enjoys. It's a choice leadership has decided that other regions don't have the good public transportation infrastructure London has.
TechnicalEphemera -
No they can't. All of our rail network converges on London.
citizenJA -
It doesn't have to remain converged in London, that's my point.
TechnicalEphemera -
London has the only tube network in England.
citizenJA -
That's a damned shame - other places in the UK can use a good network too - there's nothing stopping that from happening.
TechnicalEphemera -
Things are so hopeless that if I arrange a multi company meeting in England London is just about the only sensible venue, everything else is impossible to get to.
citizenJA -
Make another venue not impossible to get to.
TechnicalEphemera -
Don't believe me, consider people coming from Ipswich, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol, Reading, Basingstoke and Hull. London is the only venue that makes sense, even though Birmingham is more central.
citizenJA-
(my bold) Why? Because London has what other regions don't?
TechnicalEphemera -
The costs would be huge per city, it would take 50 years...
citizenJA -
We can't begin any earlier - fifty years of work, eh? Sound likes lots of useful jobs employed in a useful purpose.
TechnicalEphemera -
...and who is going to pay for it?
citizenJA -
The same organisation that paid for the NHS in 1948.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

The Party of In! Which likes to make out that it's sticking to some principles that make up for it being very right wing economically, or something. Reduced to trying to beat Cameron to an announcement.

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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Harry Leslie Smith ‏@Harryslaststand 1m1 minute ago
#CameronMustGo b/c under his watch the civilised state built under the premise that we are all in it together is dismantled brick-by-brick.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

BenGoldacre_MostIrresponsibleThingIHaveEverSeenFromHealthMinister.jpg
BenGoldacre_MostIrresponsibleThingIHaveEverSeenFromHealthMinister.jpg (37.02 KiB) Viewed 17909 times
ben goldacre @bengoldacre · 2h 2 hours ago
This is without question the most stupid, insightless and irresponsible thing I have ever seen from a health minister
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adam
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by adam »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Brilliant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebri ... in-UK.html

Somebody should tell Angelina that the whole point of the mansion tax is to discourage rich tossers from buying up UK property.

It is clearly doing its job.
Angelie Jolie could afford to buy just about any property in the UK she wanted and to pay some kind of tax at a rate much higher than Labour are proposing without even noticing. When the super super extremely disgustingly wealthy complain about taxes we should either laugh at them or throw things at them. Maybe both.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

citizenJA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:A line from Sticky99's post earlier today - citizenJA -
The rest of the country can have the excellent public transportation London enjoys. It's a choice leadership has decided that other regions don't have the good public transportation infrastructure London has.
citizenJA -
It doesn't have to remain converged in London, that's my point. citizenJA -
That's a damned shame - other places in the UK can use a good network too - there's nothing stopping that from happening. citizenJA -
Make another venue not impossible to get to. citizenJA-
(my bold) Why? Because London has what other regions don't?citizenJA -
We can't begin any earlier - fifty years of work, eh? Sound likes lots of useful jobs employed in a useful purpose.
citizenJA -
The same organisation that paid for the NHS in 1948.
If you look at the train timetables you will see everybody can get to London rapidly by direct train, and nowhere else.

Manchester London Easy. Manchester Hull, Ipswich, Reading forget it. Even Birmingham is just a little slower than London, plus you have to take a cab from the station everywhere else.

Ipswich to Birmingham, Manchester or Hull - you go via London.

So yes it could be done and funded by the tax payer but the Green Party won't like it, neither will a lot of Nimbys when we start laying a full mesh railway network in.

Funding tubes and trams everywhere would be slightly more practical but you still need a linkage. Maybe the answer is transit cities with fast links (in effect adding more hubs than just London). Maybe Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Peterborough, Swindon, Newcastle, plus a couple of Towns along the South Coast. Still a load of rail though.
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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Ipswich to Birmingham, Manchester or Hull - you go via London.
Quickest Ispswich to Hull is change at Peterborough, not London.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Has Toby Young stopped writing for the Telegraph / been 'let go'? Haven't seen anything from him there for some time now. Seems to be writing a bit for the Spectator - but not much. His Twitter profile has changed substantially. I see his now minimalist biog simply says Classical Liberal (what's that and is it really what he is?). No mention of free school involvement or other gigs ... and seems to be far fewer tweets generally.

Not that I'm missing him mind. Not at all.
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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

You can also do Ipswich to Birmingham via Ely, though for some reason it's far, far more expensive than going via London.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Just noticed what a ghastly job I've now got ... Deputy PM .... hmmmm, where to look for a good role model ..... hmmmm, where not to look for a good role model ... could somebody please tell me who the current FTN PM is, then I might have some basis for a decision.
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LadyCentauria
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by LadyCentauria »

ohsocynical wrote:
pk1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:What does Jeremy Hunt mean by: ''I think we have to recognise that society is changing and people don’t always know whether the care that they need is urgent or whether it is an emergency''.

What's changed in society ? Why are people less able to assess now whether the care they need is urgent ?
It's because the NHS is always there 24/7 & as a society, many people think they have 'entitlement' to a superior service than their health needs warrant so they turn up at A & E, grumble that they have to wait then whine that the Doctors didn't treat their twisted ankle with the full gamut of investigative techniques.

One could say that the NHS is a victim of it's success.
I'd also argue that doctors don't 'doctor' as they used to.
They don't do house calls, take out stitches, do weekend or night time cover. If your need is urgent unless you get on the phone at 8am, then wait for ages for them to pick up because it's busy, you won't get an appointment that day.
There is so much they don't do now, and A&Es are bearing the brunt.
It does depend on the Practice. Ours is one of three based in the local health centre. There are five partners, two part-timers, and one trainee in the one I am registered with. They share the other facilities in the centre with the other two Practices: a team of nurses, led by a Nurse Practitioner; a bloods clinic which runs every morning; a dedicated room for minor surgery; and another consulting room which is used by visiting physiotherapists, psychiatrists, and psychologists – all of whom do one or two half-days a week there. They share the large admin and reception team, too. There is a pretty good after-hours service (sub-contracted) and the Practices' Doctors make home-visits, themselves, where necessary. Next door is the Area Physiotherapy Centre, which is very handy. I know how lucky we are to have such good facilities and such good services; and I truly wish it were that way for everyone in the UK – for everyone in the world, even!
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adam
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by adam »

I wonder if one issue about a greater desire to see doctors is because we live in such an information rich environment and when it comes to medical information, almost whoever it's coming from online if there is any risk at all it's pretty much obliged to recommend seeking medical attention.

(Full disclosure - both of my daughters have direct access to the children's ward at the hospital, they are effectively permanent outpatients, so either something is bad enough to go straight there or perfectly fine to wait for an appointment).
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by citizenJA »

TechnicalEphemera -

If you look at the train timetables you will see everybody can get to London rapidly by direct train, and nowhere else.

Manchester London Easy. Manchester Hull, Ipswich, Reading forget it. Even Birmingham is just a little slower than London, plus you have to take a cab from the station everywhere else.

Ipswich to Birmingham, Manchester or Hull - you go via London.

So yes it could be done and funded by the tax payer but the Green Party won't like it, neither will a lot of Nimbys when we start laying a full mesh railway network in.

Funding tubes and trams everywhere would be slightly more practical but you still need a linkage. Maybe the answer is transit cities with fast links (in effect adding more hubs than just London). Maybe Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Peterborough, Swindon, Newcastle, plus a couple of Towns along the South Coast. Still a load of rail though.
Thank you, yes, I need your help. I'm thinking nothing less than the entire UK transportation infrastructure renovated, fully functional - create the links - create the rail links, comprehensive, affordable, easy to use, integrated, interconnected, safe & frequent.

I made a comment to another commentator earlier about providing professional drivers to those requiring to get somewhere they're not able to walk or cycle. I wasn't being a smart ass. This service would be run nationally providing cab service to rural areas if it's cost effective, for example.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by citizenJA »

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just noticed what a ghastly job I've now got ... Deputy PM .... hmmmm, where to look for a good role model ..... hmmmm, where not to look for a good role model ... could somebody please tell me who the current FTN PM is, then I might have some basis for a decision.
My condolences - sincerely. Last time I checked I was Whip.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

rebeccariots2 wrote:Has Toby Young stopped writing for the Telegraph / been 'let go'? Haven't seen anything from him there for some time now. Seems to be writing a bit for the Spectator - but not much. His Twitter profile has changed substantially. I see his now minimalist biog simply says Classical Liberal (what's that and is it really what he is?). No mention of free school involvement or other gigs ... and seems to be far fewer tweets generally.

Not that I'm missing him mind. Not at all.
He lost interest in education when Gove was sacked/moved. The last one on 1st Sept was effectively just a plug for his book. Occasionally tweets about the WLFS but he's not a governor now so does less cheerleading.
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letsskiptotheleft
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

Turns out Charlotte Vere is shortlisted for the Conservatives, well, well, there's a surprise, no wonder she wanted to disparage Labour's education policies..
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

citizenJA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera -

If you look at the train timetables you will see everybody can get to London rapidly by direct train, and nowhere else.

Manchester London Easy. Manchester Hull, Ipswich, Reading forget it. Even Birmingham is just a little slower than London, plus you have to take a cab from the station everywhere else.

Ipswich to Birmingham, Manchester or Hull - you go via London.

So yes it could be done and funded by the tax payer but the Green Party won't like it, neither will a lot of Nimbys when we start laying a full mesh railway network in.

Funding tubes and trams everywhere would be slightly more practical but you still need a linkage. Maybe the answer is transit cities with fast links (in effect adding more hubs than just London). Maybe Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Peterborough, Swindon, Newcastle, plus a couple of Towns along the South Coast. Still a load of rail though.
Thank you, yes, I need your help. I'm thinking nothing less than the entire UK transportation infrastructure renovated, fully functional - create the links - create the rail links, comprehensive, affordable, easy to use, integrated, interconnected, safe & frequent.

I made a comment to another commentator earlier about providing professional drivers to those requiring to get somewhere they're not able to walk or cycle. I wasn't being a smart ass. This service would be run nationally providing cab service to rural areas if it's cost effective, for example.

It is a brilliant vision, but the opex might be eye watering, even if we write off the infrastructure build out.
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Tizme1
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tizme1 »

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just noticed what a ghastly job I've now got ... Deputy PM .... hmmmm, where to look for a good role model ..... hmmmm, where not to look for a good role model ... could somebody please tell me who the current FTN PM is, then I might have some basis for a decision.
My condolences - sincerely. Last time I checked I was Whip.
I noticed earlier that I am now a committee member. I'm sure I was something even more humble last time I looked. I hope I haven't missed too many committee meetings..........
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

Tizme1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Tizme1 wrote: Hi yahyah, and citizenJA, plus everyone else,

I read your question this morning yahyah but didn't have a chance to answer. So far I've managed to read page 1 of today's comments on here! I didn't bookmark the item at the time and I've had a quick look but haven't found it again. I may manage to do so later. It was written by a 'young green' explaining why they had switched from Labour. It struck me for two reasons, I pretty much agreed with the whole of it apart from the bit I mentioned. But also,given it was a young person who wrote it, I accepted they might be more aware of the policies being proposed by various parties regarding youngsters. Although having 3 under 25's myself, I do normally pick up on these things. And as I said, it didn't quite gel with my memory.

If I can find it again, I want to re read it and check specifically what was said. If it was that Labour propose to do away with JSA for under 25's then that is broadly correct. If it says Labour intend to do away with all benefits for under 25's it's wrong and I would feel I had to point that out.

From the Green perspective, we don't agree with withdrawing JSA and providing an alternative which is means tested on the parents earnings. So if the claim in the article is that Labour proposes withdrawing JSA from under 25's it's a fair comment. Particularly as this is the young person's explanation of how they feel, and why they have switched.

As to why many Greens feel angry towards the Labour party, there are I'm sure many reasons but for a lot of Greens, it's not misrepresented policies but actual policies that Labour are proposing. It's the acceptance of the Tory premise that there must be cuts to services and benefits, plus the lack of opposition, and in particular, the lack of help given to the sick, the disabled, and the vulnerable.

citizenJA - there are I'm afraid a whole raft of differences between The Greens and Labour. That said, if we have MPs after the election next year, they'd almost certainly be prepared to support a Labour gov to one degree or another but I imagine hell would freeze over before they entered any sort of arrangement with the Tories. I'm glad you find Caroline inspirational - I do too. By the same token, I find John McDonnell
very impressive. He should be a Green. ;)
I don't mean to be argumentative Tiz but...
Currently a young person who has no financial support from their parents (just a room in the house to sleep in) cannot go to collage to improve (or gain extra) qualification because by doing so they lose JSA. In other words they have zilch to live on and, as I have witnessed, some parents won't let their kids go to collage because they can't afford to lose the £50 and few pennies per week JSA from the household income. So the kids hang around looking for none existent jobs, only to be told on the odd interview they do get that they need better qualifications. Which they cant get because....and round the circle goes.
Under Labour's proposal they CAN go to collage to get those qualifications, and get Youth Allowance to the same level as JSA. This would apply to anyone who's parents earn under £44k (?to be confirmed, it might be 40K) This is the same amount as kicks in for university fees "means testing".
Sorry but anyone earning £40+K in this day and age can/should be able to afford to help their kids out till they start earning. If they can't then maybe its time to sell the second car.
I agree that it would be good if young people who were out of work, could go to college. It would be easy to change existing JSA laws though to allow that. In any case, why only young people? Why not also allow older people who are out of work, to retrain or take new qualifications? And what about youngsters who go to uni? The means testing there doesn't mean they get their course paid for. It just means they get a loan. They might start to wonder why the hell am I getting into 30k + of debt while my peers/siblings are paid to continue studying.

I disagree with the means testing of the parents. If I earned 40k a year, I'd be very comfortable. But if I was in rented accommodation in Watford, and if I had to use a car for work, and had to support my three youngsters, I would start to struggle. Not as much as many people already are struggling. Indeed not as much possibly as I struggle some months as it is. But why would I want to see people earning a good salary brought down to the same level of struggle as me?

What about a young person who left school at 17 and went straight into work. 7 years later they get made redundant. But, because they are only 24, the tax and NI they have paid doesn't count. How is that right? Finally though, at what stage do we consider a young person a citizen in their own right rather than an appendage of their parents? 18? 21? 25? Why not 30? Surely it should be once they reach adulthood?
I'm not even sure I follow the last paragraph, if someone has worked for 7 years and are redundant they go onto JSA. Why would they not. Times have changed, young people are staying at home longer and until we can tackle the reasons for that (youth unemployment, high rent and house prices) we need to adjust our thinking. To my mind providing means to allow a young person to gain additional skills (and I include the arts in that) is a better option than leaving them hanging round the job centre.
The older person point is not relevant in a discussion about youth unemployment, they are treated separately under different schemes.
I disagree that someone earning 40k+ would struggle to look after their own child for a couple of years extra.
Sorry but we'll have to agree to differ on this one I think :)
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:You can also do Ipswich to Birmingham via Ely, though for some reason it's far, far more expensive than going via London.
Ipswich to Hull via Peterborough is only just quicker than via London (factoring in the underground leg).

Plus you need a change.

Nobody I know ever travelled Ipswich Birmingham via Ely, always via London. 1.15 + 1.30 + 30

Still it is 3+ hours by car (if the A14 is behaving).

Well spotted though I didn't realise it was possible.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by citizenJA »

adam wrote:I wonder if one issue about a greater desire to see doctors is because we live in such an information rich environment and when it comes to medical information, almost whoever it's coming from online if there is any risk at all it's pretty much obliged to recommend seeking medical attention.

(Full disclosure - both of my daughters have direct access to the children's ward at the hospital, they are effectively permanent outpatients, so either something is bad enough to go straight there or perfectly fine to wait for an appointment).
In times of prolonged strain, our health may be compromised. Anecdotally speaking - my latest doctor's appointment for a check up soothed me greatly. A training medical student is always welcome to me during the visit - a young person training for a career in medicine sits in during my check ups. My point is people may like the interaction with a good doctor & their staff; it's rather therapeutic. I'm very fortunate. Now I think of it though, that doesn't explain A&E increases. Though shutting down walk-in clinics was a piss poor thing for current government to do. Walk in & have a chat, get checked out, leave less worried. Let's bring them back - the walk-in clinics.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Tizme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just noticed what a ghastly job I've now got ... Deputy PM .... hmmmm, where to look for a good role model ..... hmmmm, where not to look for a good role model ... could somebody please tell me who the current FTN PM is, then I might have some basis for a decision.
My condolences - sincerely. Last time I checked I was Whip.
I noticed earlier that I am now a committee member. I'm sure I was something even more humble last time I looked. I hope I haven't missed too many committee meetings..........
You think you have problems, I am Chief Whip. Everybody hates me and sniggers behind my back.

Now piss off plebs I have got some public land to give away to my rich mate to build a joke school on.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

Anyone following feed / page ?
https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by citizenJA »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera -

If you look at the train timetables you will see everybody can get to London rapidly by direct train, and nowhere else.

Manchester London Easy. Manchester Hull, Ipswich, Reading forget it. Even Birmingham is just a little slower than London, plus you have to take a cab from the station everywhere else.

Ipswich to Birmingham, Manchester or Hull - you go via London.

So yes it could be done and funded by the tax payer but the Green Party won't like it, neither will a lot of Nimbys when we start laying a full mesh railway network in.

Funding tubes and trams everywhere would be slightly more practical but you still need a linkage. Maybe the answer is transit cities with fast links (in effect adding more hubs than just London). Maybe Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Peterborough, Swindon, Newcastle, plus a couple of Towns along the South Coast. Still a load of rail though.
Thank you, yes, I need your help. I'm thinking nothing less than the entire UK transportation infrastructure renovated, fully functional - create the links - create the rail links, comprehensive, affordable, easy to use, integrated, interconnected, safe & frequent.

I made a comment to another commentator earlier about providing professional drivers to those requiring to get somewhere they're not able to walk or cycle. I wasn't being a smart ass. This service would be run nationally providing cab service to rural areas if it's cost effective, for example.

It is a brilliant vision, but the opex might be eye watering, even if we write off the infrastructure build out.
I'm glad I know you, seriously. I have some ideas. Engineering, plans making ideas into reality require more than words. I don't need to be right. I want people happier, better cared for, better employed - enjoying a good train ride one day to hike somewhere & getting back without having to worry about a pay day lender loan to finance it is a dream I have. I don't think it's too much to ask.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

AngryAsWell wrote:Anyone following feed / page ?
https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Woah Nellie.

Has this been public domain in the past?

We wait to see if George will take her to court. Somehow I really doubt it.
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pk1
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by pk1 »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Turns out Charlotte Vere is shortlisted for the Conservatives, well, well, there's a surprise, no wonder she wanted to disparage Labour's education policies..
She was on Daily Politics with the ghastly, utterly repugnant Kelvin McKenzie (why does the BBC employ his services, when he is a proven liar but particularly whilst the Hillsborough inquests are still taking place ??) & I don't recall Jo Coburn introducing her as a Tory candidate ! Naughty Naughty !!
Last edited by pk1 on Tue 25 Nov, 2014 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

AngryAsWell wrote:Anyone following feed / page ?
https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am now. :lol:
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by pk1 »

Yougov:

LAB – 33% (-1)
CON – 32% (+2)
UKIP – 16% (-2)
LDEM – 7% (+1)
GRN – 6% (-)
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Just torn myself away from Newsnight (no not really). My eyes hurt from the blinding intellect and logic of Emily Maitliss (no not really). Really, I have just been thoroughly depressed by her woeful interview with Malcolm Rifkind .... she seems not to understand what an algorithm can do or anything about basic searches, filters etc. Just for once - I felt for Rifkind. #flabbyquestioning
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

'nite all
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by citizenJA »

I've got to get some sleep, everyone.
Have a warm & safe night - please care for yourselves first, your family & community.
Love,
JA
letsskiptotheleft
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

And to think the EU want to slap 20% on marigolds!
pk1
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by pk1 »

Good night AAW & citizenJA, sleep well
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by pk1 »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:And to think the EU want to slap 20% on marigolds!
Not too keen on marigolds, prefer daffodils myself........ :lol:
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

pk1 wrote:Good night AAW & citizenJA, sleep well
and it's goodnight from me to you both too.
Working on the wild side.
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refitman
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by refitman »

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just noticed what a ghastly job I've now got ... Deputy PM .... hmmmm, where to look for a good role model ..... hmmmm, where not to look for a good role model ... could somebody please tell me who the current FTN PM is, then I might have some basis for a decision.
You're currently the highest ranking member of the site. Ohso, Tubby & AAW are all Speakers and letsskip is Chancellor.
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Tizme1
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tizme1 »

AngryAsWell wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: I don't mean to be argumentative Tiz but...
Currently a young person who has no financial support from their parents (just a room in the house to sleep in) cannot go to collage to improve (or gain extra) qualification because by doing so they lose JSA. In other words they have zilch to live on and, as I have witnessed, some parents won't let their kids go to collage because they can't afford to lose the £50 and few pennies per week JSA from the household income. So the kids hang around looking for none existent jobs, only to be told on the odd interview they do get that they need better qualifications. Which they cant get because....and round the circle goes.
Under Labour's proposal they CAN go to collage to get those qualifications, and get Youth Allowance to the same level as JSA. This would apply to anyone who's parents earn under £44k (?to be confirmed, it might be 40K) This is the same amount as kicks in for university fees "means testing".
Sorry but anyone earning £40+K in this day and age can/should be able to afford to help their kids out till they start earning. If they can't then maybe its time to sell the second car.
I agree that it would be good if young people who were out of work, could go to college. It would be easy to change existing JSA laws though to allow that. In any case, why only young people? Why not also allow older people who are out of work, to retrain or take new qualifications? And what about youngsters who go to uni? The means testing there doesn't mean they get their course paid for. It just means they get a loan. They might start to wonder why the hell am I getting into 30k + of debt while my peers/siblings are paid to continue studying.

I disagree with the means testing of the parents. If I earned 40k a year, I'd be very comfortable. But if I was in rented accommodation in Watford, and if I had to use a car for work, and had to support my three youngsters, I would start to struggle. Not as much as many people already are struggling. Indeed not as much possibly as I struggle some months as it is. But why would I want to see people earning a good salary brought down to the same level of struggle as me?

What about a young person who left school at 17 and went straight into work. 7 years later they get made redundant. But, because they are only 24, the tax and NI they have paid doesn't count. How is that right? Finally though, at what stage do we consider a young person a citizen in their own right rather than an appendage of their parents? 18? 21? 25? Why not 30? Surely it should be once they reach adulthood?
I'm not even sure I follow the last paragraph, if someone has worked for 7 years and are redundant they go onto JSA. Why would they not. Times have changed, young people are staying at home longer and until we can tackle the reasons for that (youth unemployment, high rent and house prices) we need to adjust our thinking. To my mind providing means to allow a young person to gain additional skills (and I include the arts in that) is a better option than leaving them hanging round the job centre.
The older person point is not relevant in a discussion about youth unemployment, they are treated separately under different schemes.
I disagree that someone earning 40k+ would struggle to look after their own child for a couple of years extra.
Sorry but we'll have to agree to differ on this one I think :)
Are you saying this policy would cover under 25's that had never worked only and not under 25's that have worked and then find themselves unemployed?

Truly if I were earning 40k in Watford but having to pay private rent, run a car for work, and support my three children, it would get tight. These are aprox figures based on Watford rental and council tax, my own gas and electric charges, and what my daughter spends to use her car 5 days a week to and from her work placement.

Monthly

Take home pay £2,500
Rent £1,500
Council tax £100 [actually it would be just over that on a band C property]
Car expenditure £250 [I'm allowing about £50 a month to cover insurance,tax, MOT, maintenance etc which is probably a bit hopeful of me].
Gas and Electric £160

As you can see, that leaves just under £500 per month for food, clothes, 'phone, house insurance and so on. Not exactly a vast sum. Now realistically, I have less than that each month but I don't have to fully support all of my children. And I know other ftn's have considerably less than that. And we manage by scrimping. £40,000 seems like a huge salary to me but in reality, if you were paying for private rental [round here, worse in London no doubt] - it isn't.

The older person point may not seem relevant in a discussion about 'young people' but we should be looking at the whole situation and not dealing with things in a piecemeal way.

I don't think you answered why a uni student should get into 30k+ debt while their peer/sibling was paid to continue studying. Nor did you answer at what age an individual becomes a citizen in their own right.
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Ian McMillan @IMcMillan · 16h 16 hours ago
Bloke said he was flirting with the Greens. Next thing I heard, he'd married a cauliflower.
With deepest apologies to Tizme and anyone else of a Green persuasion. It's just I'm a sucker for Ian McMillan tweets at the mo.
Working on the wild side.
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Tizme1
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tizme1 »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:My condolences - sincerely. Last time I checked I was Whip.
I noticed earlier that I am now a committee member. I'm sure I was something even more humble last time I looked. I hope I haven't missed too many committee meetings..........
You think you have problems, I am Chief Whip. Everybody hates me and sniggers behind my back.

Now piss off plebs I have got some public land to give away to my rich mate to build a joke school on.
Shouldn't you call me a sweaty shit or something? I only ask 'cos obviously I need to learn my place.
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

refitman wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just noticed what a ghastly job I've now got ... Deputy PM .... hmmmm, where to look for a good role model ..... hmmmm, where not to look for a good role model ... could somebody please tell me who the current FTN PM is, then I might have some basis for a decision.
You're currently the highest ranking member of the site. Ohso, Tubby & AAW are all Speakers and letsskip is Chancellor.
I think I might have to go quiet for a bit. If I reach the heady heights of PM you'll all be plotting and sniping against my leadership - anonymously no doubt.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tizme1 »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
refitman wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just noticed what a ghastly job I've now got ... Deputy PM .... hmmmm, where to look for a good role model ..... hmmmm, where not to look for a good role model ... could somebody please tell me who the current FTN PM is, then I might have some basis for a decision.
You're currently the highest ranking member of the site. Ohso, Tubby & AAW are all Speakers and letsskip is Chancellor.
I think I might have to go quiet for a bit. If I reach the heady heights of PM you'll all be plotting and sniping against my leadership - anonymously no doubt.
We already are mwahahaha.....................
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
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ErnstRemarx
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe · 15 mins15 minutes ago
To all my twitter friends, a little known fact to you guys but known for a long time by the media, regarding @George_Osborne is coming up :?:
Is this a story of substance do you think?
Ha ha.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Tizme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Tizme1 wrote: I noticed earlier that I am now a committee member. I'm sure I was something even more humble last time I looked. I hope I haven't missed too many committee meetings..........
You think you have problems, I am Chief Whip. Everybody hates me and sniggers behind my back.

Now piss off plebs I have got some public land to give away to my rich mate to build a joke school on.
Shouldn't you call me a sweaty shit or something? I only ask 'cos obviously I need to learn my place.
Sorry, my generic term for the great unwashed is Muppet. Best I can do, otherwise I would have to stop preening myself in the media and pay attention.
Release the Guardvarks.
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:A line from Sticky99's post earlier today -
Public transport is excellent to London and the town centre, everywhere else it is wholly inadequate.
The rest of the country can have the excellent public transportation London enjoys. It's a choice leadership has decided that other regions don't have the good public transportation infrastructure London has.
No they can't. All of our rail network converges on London. London has the only tube network in England. Things are so hopeless that if I arrange a multi company meeting in England London is just about the only sensible venue, everything else is impossible to get to.

Don't believe me, consider people coming from Ipswich, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol, Reading, Basingstoke and Hull. London is the only venue that makes sense, even though Birmingham is more central.

The costs would be huge per city, it would take 50 years and who is going to pay for it?
That's the choice TE.

We could haul back and integrate bus, rail, tram and so forth were there a political will to do so - and the balls to tell shareholders to get stuffed. They'd call it expropriation, I'd call it justice, seeing as they were actually given the bloody infrastructure in the first place.

In the end, we have no choice. I own a car but the car is not the panacea to sort out our transport issues, particularly in a time of post peak oil and global warming. We either get serious about transport issues or else we are walking into a blind alley.

We can - as a nation - do whatever we want. We only have to have the courage and imagination as a people to get that and plan out how we get there and our priorities, and I suspect that that's going to be breaking new ground within western economies if we're brave enough to do it.

In a way, we don't have a choice. The car owning democracy was a nice little dream for the 80s, in the same way that some thought that Dire Straits were a good idea too. The reality, even then, belied the dream, and we simply can't afford any more right wing dreams like that, socially, economically or environmentally.

Incidentally - best to you; the above isn't in any way criticism of you personally.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

40 years since Nick Drake's untimely death.

This one has a story behind it with Joe Boyd playing some stuff for John Cale and then getting to Nick. Cale was amazed - "Who the fuck is this guy? I have to meet him...where is he...where is he right now?" They recorded Northern Sky and Fly the next day...one day after Cale had met him for the first time. Cale is on piano, organ and celeste. Enjoy...

[youtube]S3jCFeCtSjk[/youtube]
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

ErnstRemarx wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:A line from Sticky99's post earlier today - The rest of the country can have the excellent public transportation London enjoys. It's a choice leadership has decided that other regions don't have the good public transportation infrastructure London has.
No they can't. All of our rail network converges on London. London has the only tube network in England. Things are so hopeless that if I arrange a multi company meeting in England London is just about the only sensible venue, everything else is impossible to get to.

Don't believe me, consider people coming from Ipswich, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol, Reading, Basingstoke and Hull. London is the only venue that makes sense, even though Birmingham is more central.

The costs would be huge per city, it would take 50 years and who is going to pay for it?
That's the choice TE.

We could haul back and integrate bus, rail, tram and so forth were there a political will to do so - and the balls to tell shareholders to get stuffed. They'd call it expropriation, I'd call it justice, seeing as they were actually given the bloody infrastructure in the first place.

In the end, we have no choice. I own a car but the car is not the panacea to sort out our transport issues, particularly in a time of post peak oil and global warming. We either get serious about transport issues or else we are walking into a blind alley.

We can - as a nation - do whatever we want. We only have to have the courage and imagination as a people to get that and plan out how we get there and our priorities, and I suspect that that's going to be breaking new ground within western economies if we're brave enough to do it.

In a way, we don't have a choice. The car owning democracy was a nice little dream for the 80s, in the same way that some thought that Dire Straits were a good idea too. The reality, even then, belied the dream, and we simply can't afford any more right wing dreams like that, socially, economically or environmentally.

Incidentally - best to you; the above isn't in any way criticism of you personally.
Oddly Dire Straits were good, just not Brothers in Arms.

Telegraph Road is a classic.

Peak oil is an interesting concept, especially as we have hit it. But also the UK's oil use has peaked. Will the car survive the demise of cheap oil with increasingly frugal hybrid PEVs?

The critical thing is volume, the railways could go back to the 1950s but better, if people will use them. Otherwise you end up with zero revenue but huge running costs (see the decline of the French rail system).

Incidentally Tubby's Ely route is going to get used by me, but not to get to Ipswich. Very useful indeed.
Release the Guardvarks.
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

AngryAsWell wrote:Anyone following feed / page ?
https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Crikey, just picked up the "Osborne likes being spanked in rubber pants" tweet with the invitation for m'learned friends to intervene.

She's pretty plucky, and it's clear to me she's not a great fan of right wing Tories and hypocrisy.
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Re: Tuesday 25th November 2014

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Here is the news!

https://brianwernham.wordpress.com/2014 ... ao-report/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- The start of Universal Credit replacement of Tax Credits from January 2015 has been abandoned. DWP has delayed plans by at least 2 years for the transfer of the majority of tax credits claimants to Universal Credit to 2019. It does not have plans to transfer the remaining 555,000 tax credit and Employment and Support Allowance claimants before 2020.
Water (Dead therein).
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