Tuesday 25th November 2014

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:27 pm

Just watching Tristram Hunt on C4 News...intriguing that I haven't heard a peep out of any Tory education ministers. Probably because they actually agree with it.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:31 pm

citizenJA wrote:
yahyah wrote:@Tizme

Will you be contacting the Green convert blogger about his misinformation about Labour's youth policy ? If people are deliberately/accidentally portraying Labour's policies or comments wrongly, no wonder so many Greens come across as so angrily anti-Labour.
I respectfully second this - I can't see into the hearts & minds of others - I know my own. The Green & Labour parties seem natural allies. Regardless, cooperative effort, genuine goodwill is healthy ground making. Green party MP Caroline Lucas is an inspiration to me personally.

Hi yahyah, and citizenJA, plus everyone else,

I read your question this morning yahyah but didn't have a chance to answer. So far I've managed to read page 1 of today's comments on here! I didn't bookmark the item at the time and I've had a quick look but haven't found it again. I may manage to do so later. It was written by a 'young green' explaining why they had switched from Labour. It struck me for two reasons, I pretty much agreed with the whole of it apart from the bit I mentioned. But also,given it was a young person who wrote it, I accepted they might be more aware of the policies being proposed by various parties regarding youngsters. Although having 3 under 25's myself, I do normally pick up on these things. And as I said, it didn't quite gel with my memory.

If I can find it again, I want to re read it and check specifically what was said. If it was that Labour propose to do away with JSA for under 25's then that is broadly correct. If it says Labour intend to do away with all benefits for under 25's it's wrong and I would feel I had to point that out.

From the Green perspective, we don't agree with withdrawing JSA and providing an alternative which is means tested on the parents earnings. So if the claim in the article is that Labour proposes withdrawing JSA from under 25's it's a fair comment. Particularly as this is the young person's explanation of how they feel, and why they have switched.

As to why many Greens feel angry towards the Labour party, there are I'm sure many reasons but for a lot of Greens, it's not misrepresented policies but actual policies that Labour are proposing. It's the acceptance of the Tory premise that there must be cuts to services and benefits, plus the lack of opposition, and in particular, the lack of help given to the sick, the disabled, and the vulnerable.

citizenJA - there are I'm afraid a whole raft of differences between The Greens and Labour. That said, if we have MPs after the election next year, they'd almost certainly be prepared to support a Labour gov to one degree or another but I imagine hell would freeze over before they entered any sort of arrangement with the Tories. I'm glad you find Caroline inspirational - I do too. By the same token, I find John McDonnell
very impressive. He should be a Green.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:31 pm

Is it just me - I can't see some of the text on this site!

Right now I can see OT out of my name, only 3.4 of the page numbers, the Daily Politics on the thread title and I can't see the text in the Post box.

Odd.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:WorldMedicalTimes ‏@WMTEditor 1h1 hour ago
Cure the NHS in “Handbags At Dawn”: Julie Bailey of Cure the NHS [CTHS] fame did something uncharacteristic t... http://bit.ly/1vKhqmn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The latest instalment in the Julie Bailey alleged charity scam
Oh dear. Oh deary dear.

Ouch. I presume this has been cut, pasted, saved, and given a prominent place?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:34 pm

Robert Peston @Peston · 6h 6 hours ago
This is brilliant and funny on Tesco's very strange pricing policy by @Louiseaileen70 http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=ab4 ... 010b2e0c23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Yes it is. And fits perfectly with the experience of the elderly couple I garden for on a Tuesday morning. They arrived back from doing a Tesco shop today with grim faces. The wife got out of the car and came over to me proclaiming loudly 'Well, I see Tesco have properly twigged that the promised Sainsbury is not coming here now ... we've just been properly scammed'. She said that she had bought nothing out of the ordinary or extra since their last shop ... but when she heard what the bill was she couldn't believe it. They hadn't got enough money out of the cash machine so had to put in on a card instead. She was fuming.

Yes - we have finally been told what we all knew anyway. The new Sainsbury which was supposed to underpin the development of a new hospital / healthcare facility - and for which part of the countryside on the edge of Cardigan has been utterly savaged in preparation, and the council has built big new roads and roundabouts that go nowhere at our expense .... is not going to be built. We had statement after statement after statement from both Sainsbury, council, healthboard and AM throughout last year and the first 6 months of this insisting it was all going ahead. We're not thick around here - no one believed it. The land (which they should have properly assessed first of all) is not stable and acts as an essential drain for the rather too frequent flooding that part of town experiences. We all knew that. Wonder who got the benefit out of this expensive charade.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:34 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Is it just me - I can't see some of the text on this site!

Right now I can see OT out of my name, only 3.4 of the page numbers, the Daily Politics on the thread title and I can't see the text in the Post box.

Odd.

I replied to Grim in another section and it came up under his pseudo, swear I haven't done a Rachael Johnson on him!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:34 pm

[quote="RogerOThornhill"]Is it just me - I can't see some of the text on this site!

Right now I can see OT out of my name, only 3.4 of the page numbers, the Daily Politics on the thread title and I can't see the text in the Post box.

I seem to be okay.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:36 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Is it just me - I can't see some of the text on this site!

Right now I can see OT out of my name, only 3.4 of the page numbers, the Daily Politics on the thread title and I can't see the text in the Post box.

I seem to be okay.

Sorry,, who said that?

I can see your photo avatar but not your name!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:36 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Just watching Tristram Hunt on C4 News...intriguing that I haven't heard a peep out of any Tory education ministers. Probably because they actually agree with it.

You're not impressed with this policy announcement, Roger?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:37 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Robert Peston @Peston · 6h 6 hours ago
This is brilliant and funny on Tesco's very strange pricing policy by @Louiseaileen70 http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=ab4 ... 010b2e0c23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Yes it is. And fits perfectly with the experience of the elderly couple I garden for on a Tuesday morning. They arrived back from doing a Tesco shop today with grim faces. The wife got out of the car and came over to me proclaiming loudly 'Well, I see Tesco have properly twigged that the promised Sainsbury is not coming here now ... we've just been properly scammed'. She said that she had bought nothing out of the ordinary or extra since their last shop ... but when she heard what the bill was she couldn't believe it. They hadn't got enough money out of the cash machine so had to put in on a card instead. She was fuming.

Yes - we have finally been told what we all knew anyway. The new Sainsbury which was supposed to underpin the development of a new hospital / healthcare facility - and for which part of the countryside on the edge of Cardigan has been utterly savaged in preparation, and the council has built big new roads and roundabouts that go nowhere at our expense .... is not going to be built. We had statement after statement after statement from both Sainsbury, council, healthboard and AM throughout last year and the first 6 months of this insisting it was all going ahead. We're not thick around here - no one believed it. The land (which they should have properly assessed first of all) is not stable and acts as an essential drain for the rather too frequent flooding that part of town experiences. We all knew that. Wonder who got the benefit out of this expensive charade.

It's damned disgraceful when stores can charge what they like because customers don't have much choice in where they'll shop and Tesco are unmentionable hypocrites.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:39 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Robert Peston @Peston · 6h 6 hours ago
This is brilliant and funny on Tesco's very strange pricing policy by @Louiseaileen70 http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=ab4 ... 010b2e0c23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Yes it is. And fits perfectly with the experience of the elderly couple I garden for on a Tuesday morning. They arrived back from doing a Tesco shop today with grim faces. The wife got out of the car and came over to me proclaiming loudly 'Well, I see Tesco have properly twigged that the promised Sainsbury is not coming here now ... we've just been properly scammed'. She said that she had bought nothing out of the ordinary or extra since their last shop ... but when she heard what the bill was she couldn't believe it. They hadn't got enough money out of the cash machine so had to put in on a card instead. She was fuming.

Yes - we have finally been told what we all knew anyway. The new Sainsbury which was supposed to underpin the development of a new hospital / healthcare facility - and for which part of the countryside on the edge of Cardigan has been utterly savaged in preparation, and the council has built big new roads and roundabouts that go nowhere at our expense .... is not going to be built. We had statement after statement after statement from both Sainsbury, council, healthboard and AM throughout last year and the first 6 months of this insisting it was all going ahead. We're not thick around here - no one believed it. The land (which they should have properly assessed first of all) is not stable and acts as an essential drain for the rather too frequent flooding that part of town experiences. We all knew that. Wonder who got the benefit out of this expensive charade.
It's damned disgraceful when stores can charge what they like because customers don't have much choice in where they'll shop and Tesco are unmentionable hypocrites.

I wonder if Tesco will step in? It's what they do.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:40 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Is it just me - I can't see some of the text on this site!

Right now I can see OT out of my name, only 3.4 of the page numbers, the Daily Politics on the thread title and I can't see the text in the Post box.

I seem to be okay.
Sorry,, who said that?

I can see your photo avatar but not your name!

Twas Ohsocynical the famous Tweeter followed by Michael White.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:43 pm

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Just watching Tristram Hunt on C4 News...intriguing that I haven't heard a peep out of any Tory education ministers. Probably because they actually agree with it.
You're not impressed with this policy announcement, Roger?

Yes, I'm fine with it - when you think of how much land a lot of these public schools occupy I can't see why they shouldn't share some of it with state schools.

The other issue is that there's a significant number of (i) foreign pupils in fee-paying schools and Ii) fee paying schools with overseas branches - I don't see why they should benefit from a tax break.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:43 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Robert Peston @Peston · 6h 6 hours ago
This is brilliant and funny on Tesco's very strange pricing policy by @Louiseaileen70 http://us6.campaign-archive2.com/?u=ab4 ... 010b2e0c23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Yes it is. And fits perfectly with the experience of the elderly couple I garden for on a Tuesday morning. They arrived back from doing a Tesco shop today with grim faces. The wife got out of the car and came over to me proclaiming loudly 'Well, I see Tesco have properly twigged that the promised Sainsbury is not coming here now ... we've just been properly scammed'. She said that she had bought nothing out of the ordinary or extra since their last shop ... but when she heard what the bill was she couldn't believe it. They hadn't got enough money out of the cash machine so had to put in on a card instead. She was fuming.

Yes - we have finally been told what we all knew anyway. The new Sainsbury which was supposed to underpin the development of a new hospital / healthcare facility - and for which part of the countryside on the edge of Cardigan has been utterly savaged in preparation, and the council has built big new roads and roundabouts that go nowhere at our expense .... is not going to be built. We had statement after statement after statement from both Sainsbury, council, healthboard and AM throughout last year and the first 6 months of this insisting it was all going ahead. We're not thick around here - no one believed it. The land (which they should have properly assessed first of all) is not stable and acts as an essential drain for the rather too frequent flooding that part of town experiences. We all knew that. Wonder who got the benefit out of this expensive charade.
It's damned disgraceful when stores can charge what they like because customers don't have much choice in where they'll shop and Tesco are unmentionable hypocrites.

It is. We do have a smallish Aldi - which is ever more popular - but there are some things you can't get there. And we still - just - have a Co-op, but that was hit badly when Tesco opened and it's pretty small so can't really expand to compete. It has become a bit moribund with almost no visible staff presence - and they keep discontinuing things we want to buy, never a good sign. Still, on the bright side - Mr Riots has discovered they put reduced fruit pies by the till at the end of the day - and indulged himself with a very fine gooseberry pie for £1 yesterday evening. That's pure pleasure in his book.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:46 pm

citizenJA wrote:My desktop computer's operating system is Linux - the UK Parliamentary website uses Silverlight to view media - it doesn't cost anything but I've not been able to download, open & use it for watching Parliament TV. Chronic error messages. I'd thought I had success last week using AdobeFlash but that option is no longer available.

There are two things to look for on it the error message page. 1) There is now a link for Linux users to get Silverlight installers – it says Linux users: please see the help pages for installer links, 2) There is a line which reads Try Windows Media Player. The words help pages and Try Windows Media Player are both clickable links.

I use Windows Media Player which, sadly cannot be set as default so I have to choose it every time. Don't forget you can also watch on BBC iPlayer, as long as you are not watching live.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:46 pm

J Hunt getting heat for his "took kids to A&E" thing.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:47 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Yes it is. And fits perfectly with the experience of the elderly couple I garden for on a Tuesday morning. They arrived back from doing a Tesco shop today with grim faces. The wife got out of the car and came over to me proclaiming loudly 'Well, I see Tesco have properly twigged that the promised Sainsbury is not coming here now ... we've just been properly scammed'. She said that she had bought nothing out of the ordinary or extra since their last shop ... but when she heard what the bill was she couldn't believe it. They hadn't got enough money out of the cash machine so had to put in on a card instead. She was fuming.

Yes - we have finally been told what we all knew anyway. The new Sainsbury which was supposed to underpin the development of a new hospital / healthcare facility - and for which part of the countryside on the edge of Cardigan has been utterly savaged in preparation, and the council has built big new roads and roundabouts that go nowhere at our expense .... is not going to be built. We had statement after statement after statement from both Sainsbury, council, healthboard and AM throughout last year and the first 6 months of this insisting it was all going ahead. We're not thick around here - no one believed it. The land (which they should have properly assessed first of all) is not stable and acts as an essential drain for the rather too frequent flooding that part of town experiences. We all knew that. Wonder who got the benefit out of this expensive charade.
It's damned disgraceful when stores can charge what they like because customers don't have much choice in where they'll shop and Tesco are unmentionable hypocrites.
It is. We do have a smallish Aldi - which is ever more popular - but there are some things you can't get there. And we still - just - have a Co-op, but that was hit badly when Tesco opened and it's pretty small so can't really expand to compete. It has become a bit moribund with almost no visible staff presence - and they keep discontinuing things we want to buy, never a good sign. Still, on the bright side - Mr Riots has discovered they put reduced fruit pies by the till at the end of the day - and indulged himself with a very fine gooseberry pie for £1 yesterday evening. That's pure pleasure in his book.

I haven't had goosegog pie in decades!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:47 pm

Oh.

This is posted on another tab when I open the site up again...and I can see everything again. Er...what?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:49 pm

mbc1955 wrote:
I haven't had goosegog pie in decades!

Neither had Mr Riots. He was in heaven. And he calls them goosegogs too.

Editing to add: And I realise 'reduced fruit pies' sounds like they've shrunk in size. Not nice. They haven't ... just the price.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:51 pm

Have we had this nasty piece of work yet?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 83013.html

The Indy often leaves stories hanging around.

It just makes their Labour are child molesters campaign even more disgusting.

Child abuse is not a political issue.

Incidentally on the Blair thing, it is worth mentioning that Tony largely comes out in credit here.

Iraq was made no worse by intervention (only because it was already desperate), while Sierra Leone and Kosovo were interventions that undoubtedly stopped mass murder.

He certainly has a better track record than Call Me Dave - Libya and Syria, and John Major - Bosnia.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:52 pm

@LadyCentauria -

Many thanks for your help on the Parliamentary TV - I'll let you know how I get on. I'm able to read what was shown live within a short period of time. Also, I know how impressionable I am. I like to limit how much acting I see. It could cloud my judgement & I don't need more than that.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:52 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
I haven't had goosegog pie in decades!
Neither had Mr Riots. He was in heaven. And he calls them goosegogs too.

Editing to add: And I realise 'reduced fruit pies' sounds like they've shrunk in size. Not nice. They haven't ... just the price.

The devils work, that and Rhubarb.

Evil evil evil.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:55 pm

Frances Ryan @frances__ryan · 24m 24 minutes ago
No easy tax breaks for private schools? The Right convulse like it's communism with a black lesbian President. http://www.newstatesman.com/education/2 ... tax-breaks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:56 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:I think I need to make an opticians appointment.

This morning I read Hunt's speech regarding public schools and their charity status. It seemed a reasonable step in the right direction. However venturing BTL and reading the numerous comments at the G for example, it would appear that what Hunt's speech had really said was a call to arms in the class war, that the politics of envy is stirring up unnecessary hatred towards those born to rule.
Serious establishment jitters. They've played all their cards and errr realise they don't have the foggiest of a Tory majority in 2015, even with the Yellow ones.

Honestly, I feel they are losing it. Talking class warfare is exactly what the Bullingdon boys don't want.
And that's exactly what the idiots have got!

Realistically (check out all the French-origin surnames of our politicos and landowners) it's exactly what it is.
Bring out your knitted guillotines (and cream teas), for an English and/or British revolution looms!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 7:56 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
I haven't had goosegog pie in decades!
Neither had Mr Riots. He was in heaven. And he calls them goosegogs too.

Editing to add: And I realise 'reduced fruit pies' sounds like they've shrunk in size. Not nice. They haven't ... just the price.
The devils work, that and Rhubarb.

Evil evil evil.

Oh dear. No hope for you - at all.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:05 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
yahyah wrote:@Tizme

Will you be contacting the Green convert blogger about his misinformation about Labour's youth policy ? If people are deliberately/accidentally portraying Labour's policies or comments wrongly, no wonder so many Greens come across as so angrily anti-Labour.
I respectfully second this - I can't see into the hearts & minds of others - I know my own. The Green & Labour parties seem natural allies. Regardless, cooperative effort, genuine goodwill is healthy ground making. Green party MP Caroline Lucas is an inspiration to me personally.
Hi yahyah, and citizenJA, plus everyone else,

I read your question this morning yahyah but didn't have a chance to answer. So far I've managed to read page 1 of today's comments on here! I didn't bookmark the item at the time and I've had a quick look but haven't found it again. I may manage to do so later. It was written by a 'young green' explaining why they had switched from Labour. It struck me for two reasons, I pretty much agreed with the whole of it apart from the bit I mentioned. But also,given it was a young person who wrote it, I accepted they might be more aware of the policies being proposed by various parties regarding youngsters. Although having 3 under 25's myself, I do normally pick up on these things. And as I said, it didn't quite gel with my memory.

If I can find it again, I want to re read it and check specifically what was said. If it was that Labour propose to do away with JSA for under 25's then that is broadly correct. If it says Labour intend to do away with all benefits for under 25's it's wrong and I would feel I had to point that out.

From the Green perspective, we don't agree with withdrawing JSA and providing an alternative which is means tested on the parents earnings. So if the claim in the article is that Labour proposes withdrawing JSA from under 25's it's a fair comment. Particularly as this is the young person's explanation of how they feel, and why they have switched.

As to why many Greens feel angry towards the Labour party, there are I'm sure many reasons but for a lot of Greens, it's not misrepresented policies but actual policies that Labour are proposing. It's the acceptance of the Tory premise that there must be cuts to services and benefits, plus the lack of opposition, and in particular, the lack of help given to the sick, the disabled, and the vulnerable.

citizenJA - there are I'm afraid a whole raft of differences between The Greens and Labour. That said, if we have MPs after the election next year, they'd almost certainly be prepared to support a Labour gov to one degree or another but I imagine hell would freeze over before they entered any sort of arrangement with the Tories. I'm glad you find Caroline inspirational - I do too. By the same token, I find John McDonnell
very impressive. He should be a Green.

I don't mean to be argumentative Tiz but...
Currently a young person who has no financial support from their parents (just a room in the house to sleep in) cannot go to collage to improve (or gain extra) qualification because by doing so they lose JSA. In other words they have zilch to live on and, as I have witnessed, some parents won't let their kids go to collage because they can't afford to lose the £50 and few pennies per week JSA from the household income. So the kids hang around looking for none existent jobs, only to be told on the odd interview they do get that they need better qualifications. Which they cant get because....and round the circle goes.
Under Labour's proposal they CAN go to collage to get those qualifications, and get Youth Allowance to the same level as JSA. This would apply to anyone who's parents earn under £44k (?to be confirmed, it might be 40K) This is the same amount as kicks in for university fees "means testing".
Sorry but anyone earning £40+K in this day and age can/should be able to afford to help their kids out till they start earning. If they can't then maybe its time to sell the second car.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:15 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Just watching Tristram Hunt on C4 News...intriguing that I haven't heard a peep out of any Tory education ministers. Probably because they actually agree with it.
You're not impressed with this policy announcement, Roger?
Yes, I'm fine with it - when you think of how much land a lot of these public schools occupy I can't see why they shouldn't share some of it with state schools.

The other issue is that there's a significant number of (i) foreign pupils in fee-paying schools and Ii) fee paying schools with overseas branches - I don't see why they should benefit from a tax break.

Well, as we keep hearing- charity begins at home.

I see the headteacher of Hunt's old school has gone full on buffoon.

The Tories seem to have shown some discretion. Going to be a hard principle to oppose- whether it makes much difference in practice (it'll vary) it's very effective dividing line stuff.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:25 pm

You know how the Government were saying this afternoon that the security services need more powers to snoop because they didn't have access to internet communications? Someone just posted the full list of undersea fibre optic cables that GCHQ has been tapping and have written an article about the involvement of Cable & Wireless.

http://international.sueddeutsche.de/po ... iary-cable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:My desktop computer's operating system is Linux - the UK Parliamentary website uses Silverlight to view media - it doesn't cost anything but I've not been able to download, open & use it for watching Parliament TV. Chronic error messages. I'd thought I had success last week using AdobeFlash but that option is no longer available.
Just a thought and don't want to scare you, but I thought I read that even if you only watch BBC programmes on a computer you need to pay the license fee. Does anyone on here know? Hope I'm wrong.

Only if you are watching (or recording) the live broadcast.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:37 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Yes it is. And fits perfectly with the experience of the elderly couple I garden for on a Tuesday morning. They arrived back from doing a Tesco shop today with grim faces. The wife got out of the car and came over to me proclaiming loudly 'Well, I see Tesco have properly twigged that the promised Sainsbury is not coming here now ... we've just been properly scammed'. She said that she had bought nothing out of the ordinary or extra since their last shop ... but when she heard what the bill was she couldn't believe it. They hadn't got enough money out of the cash machine so had to put in on a card instead. She was fuming.

Yes - we have finally been told what we all knew anyway. The new Sainsbury which was supposed to underpin the development of a new hospital / healthcare facility - and for which part of the countryside on the edge of Cardigan has been utterly savaged in preparation, and the council has built big new roads and roundabouts that go nowhere at our expense .... is not going to be built. We had statement after statement after statement from both Sainsbury, council, healthboard and AM throughout last year and the first 6 months of this insisting it was all going ahead. We're not thick around here - no one believed it. The land (which they should have properly assessed first of all) is not stable and acts as an essential drain for the rather too frequent flooding that part of town experiences. We all knew that. Wonder who got the benefit out of this expensive charade.
It's damned disgraceful when stores can charge what they like because customers don't have much choice in where they'll shop and Tesco are unmentionable hypocrites.
It is. We do have a smallish Aldi - which is ever more popular - but there are some things you can't get there. And we still - just - have a Co-op, but that was hit badly when Tesco opened and it's pretty small so can't really expand to compete. It has become a bit moribund with almost no visible staff presence - and they keep discontinuing things we want to buy, never a good sign. Still, on the bright side - Mr Riots has discovered they put reduced fruit pies by the till at the end of the day - and indulged himself with a very fine gooseberry pie for £1 yesterday evening. That's pure pleasure in his book.

I sometimes go into the Co-o purely for their sell by reduced items...On the right day there's a good selection. If I can get tubs of double cream I'm dead pleased because I make my own butter if the cream is cheap enough.
Our Aldi is trying to cover most of what we might need. They are even doing some organic veg. I used to go every week to Sainsbury's for the items I couldn't get at Aldi but I rarely need to now.
They're supposed to be opening a lot more stores next year.
We were lucky. They took over the large Waitrose, and at first it seemed very empty of stock but three years later it's bulging at the seams. I even managed to get some Christmas presents from there. Their cookware is top quality.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:37 pm

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:43 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote: Serious establishment jitters. They've played all their cards and errr realise they don't have the foggiest of a Tory majority in 2015, even with the Yellow ones.

Honestly, I feel they are losing it. Talking class warfare is exactly what the Bullingdon boys don't want.
And that's exactly what the idiots have got!
Realistically (check out all the French-origin surnames of our politicos and landowners) it's exactly what it is.
Bring out your knitted guillotines (and cream teas), for an English and/or British revolution looms!

I've booked a front seat.
So pleased to see the tables finally turned against the toffs. They are idiots though. They've stirred up a real hornets nest and won't be immune from the stings.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 8:53 pm

Spacedone wrote:You know how the Government were saying this afternoon that the security services need more powers to snoop because they didn't have access to internet communications? Someone just posted the full list of undersea fibre optic cables that GCHQ has been tapping and have written an article about the involvement of Cable & Wireless.

http://international.sueddeutsche.de/po ... iary-cable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vodafone has history here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_wire ... E2%80%9305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Given the requirements to sign no spying agreements before doing business in parts of the German market I think this signals the end for government contracts for Vodafone in Germany.

See also:

http://mobile.cio.co.uk/news/networks/g ... us-spying/

Also note the US has refused to sign a no spying agreement with Germany, and Germany is considering ripping up existing US/UK/France no spying deals.

And this one.

http://www.eteknix.com/germany-france-l ... -networks/

By the way if anybody knows why the first link refuses to work let me know.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:07 pm

Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe · 15 mins15 minutes ago
To all my twitter friends, a little known fact to you guys but known for a long time by the media, regarding @George_Osborne is coming up

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:09 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:By the way if anybody knows why the first link refuses to work let me know.

My guess would be the .m I think that's for mobile platforms.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:17 pm

Contract work is here to stay, says Bank of England governor

UK job market has changed permanently due to financial crisis, Mark Carney tells Treasury select committee

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... y-treasury" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hadn't realised Mark Carney's role at the Bank of England also allows him to dictate employment terms for UK workers.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:24 pm

Excellent news!

BG pay deal ‘excessive and inflammatory’, says Institute of Directors

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... -directors

The Institute of Directors has launched a blistering attack on the £25m pay deal promised to the new boss of oil and gas group BG, saying it damaged the reputation of corporate Britain, and urged shareholders in the company to block the proposed package.

Simon Walker, boss of the influential lobby group, said the pay scheme agreed for new boss Helge Lund was a “red rag to the enemies of the free market”. He said six months before a general election the scale of Lund’s reward could put executive pay on the political agenda.

Yes, indeed.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:25 pm

Spacedone wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:By the way if anybody knows why the first link refuses to work let me know.
My guess would be the .m I think that's for mobile platforms.

Fixed it

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:27 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe · 15 mins15 minutes ago
To all my twitter friends, a little known fact to you guys but known for a long time by the media, regarding @George_Osborne is coming up

Is this a story of substance do you think?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:35 pm

refitman wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:By the way if anybody knows why the first link refuses to work let me know.
My guess would be the .m I think that's for mobile platforms.
Fixed it

Thanks.

That would be a bug - aka undocumented feature.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:36 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe · 15 mins15 minutes ago
To all my twitter friends, a little known fact to you guys but known for a long time by the media, regarding @George_Osborne is coming up
Is this a story of substance do you think?

That is a rather sniffy comment, if you don't mind me saying

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:39 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe · 15 mins15 minutes ago
To all my twitter friends, a little known fact to you guys but known for a long time by the media, regarding @George_Osborne is coming up
Is this a story of substance do you think?
That is a rather sniffy comment, if you don't mind me saying

Ah bless. Finally that lonely little smiley has come into its own.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:40 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe · 15 mins15 minutes ago
To all my twitter friends, a little known fact to you guys but known for a long time by the media, regarding @George_Osborne is coming up
Is this a story of substance do you think?
That is a rather sniffy comment, if you don't mind me saying

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:43 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote: Is this a story of substance do you think?
That is a rather sniffy comment, if you don't mind me saying

Technically it should be.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:46 pm

A line from Sticky99's post earlier today -

Public transport is excellent to London and the town centre, everywhere else it is wholly inadequate.

The rest of the country can have the excellent public transportation London enjoys. It's a choice leadership has decided that other regions don't have the good public transportation infrastructure London has.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:49 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Just watching Tristram Hunt on C4 News...intriguing that I haven't heard a peep out of any Tory education ministers. Probably because they actually agree with it.

Old man Hunty, yes...

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:49 pm

Brilliant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebri ... in-UK.html

Somebody should tell Angelina that the whole point of the mansion tax is to discourage rich tossers from buying up UK property.

It is clearly doing its job.

Bill Oddie can sod off as well, rich selfish git who doesn't want to pay his share.

Presumably the Greens don't support a mansion tax? (Actually I get the feeling anybody voting Green because Labour is proposing to tax them is actually casting a proxy Tory vote, which will turn into a real Tory vote in the polling booth).

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:56 pm

citizenJA wrote:A line from Sticky99's post earlier today -
Public transport is excellent to London and the town centre, everywhere else it is wholly inadequate.
The rest of the country can have the excellent public transportation London enjoys. It's a choice leadership has decided that other regions don't have the good public transportation infrastructure London has.

No they can't. All of our rail network converges on London. London has the only tube network in England. Things are so hopeless that if I arrange a multi company meeting in England London is just about the only sensible venue, everything else is impossible to get to.

Don't believe me, consider people coming from Ipswich, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol, Reading, Basingstoke and Hull. London is the only venue that makes sense, even though Birmingham is more central.

The costs would be huge per city, it would take 50 years and who is going to pay for it?

Post by **refitman** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:57 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Brilliant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebri ... in-UK.html

Somebody should tell Angelina that the whole point of the mansion tax is to discourage rich tossers from buying up UK property.

It is clearly doing its job.

Bill Oddie can sod off as well, rich selfish git who doesn't want to pay his share.

Presumably the Greens don't support a mansion tax? (Actually I get the feeling anybody voting Green because Labour is proposing to tax them is actually casting a proxy Tory vote, which will turn into a real Tory vote in the polling booth).

I can't find any mention of Green Party + Mansion tax. They are advocating for LVT though: http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2013/03/0 ... onference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Tue 25 Nov, 2014 9:58 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I respectfully second this - I can't see into the hearts & minds of others - I know my own. The Green & Labour parties seem natural allies. Regardless, cooperative effort, genuine goodwill is healthy ground making. Green party MP Caroline Lucas is an inspiration to me personally.
Hi yahyah, and citizenJA, plus everyone else,

I read your question this morning yahyah but didn't have a chance to answer. So far I've managed to read page 1 of today's comments on here! I didn't bookmark the item at the time and I've had a quick look but haven't found it again. I may manage to do so later. It was written by a 'young green' explaining why they had switched from Labour. It struck me for two reasons, I pretty much agreed with the whole of it apart from the bit I mentioned. But also,given it was a young person who wrote it, I accepted they might be more aware of the policies being proposed by various parties regarding youngsters. Although having 3 under 25's myself, I do normally pick up on these things. And as I said, it didn't quite gel with my memory.

If I can find it again, I want to re read it and check specifically what was said. If it was that Labour propose to do away with JSA for under 25's then that is broadly correct. If it says Labour intend to do away with all benefits for under 25's it's wrong and I would feel I had to point that out.

From the Green perspective, we don't agree with withdrawing JSA and providing an alternative which is means tested on the parents earnings. So if the claim in the article is that Labour proposes withdrawing JSA from under 25's it's a fair comment. Particularly as this is the young person's explanation of how they feel, and why they have switched.

As to why many Greens feel angry towards the Labour party, there are I'm sure many reasons but for a lot of Greens, it's not misrepresented policies but actual policies that Labour are proposing. It's the acceptance of the Tory premise that there must be cuts to services and benefits, plus the lack of opposition, and in particular, the lack of help given to the sick, the disabled, and the vulnerable.

citizenJA - there are I'm afraid a whole raft of differences between The Greens and Labour. That said, if we have MPs after the election next year, they'd almost certainly be prepared to support a Labour gov to one degree or another but I imagine hell would freeze over before they entered any sort of arrangement with the Tories. I'm glad you find Caroline inspirational - I do too. By the same token, I find John McDonnell
very impressive. He should be a Green.
I don't mean to be argumentative Tiz but...
Currently a young person who has no financial support from their parents (just a room in the house to sleep in) cannot go to collage to improve (or gain extra) qualification because by doing so they lose JSA. In other words they have zilch to live on and, as I have witnessed, some parents won't let their kids go to collage because they can't afford to lose the £50 and few pennies per week JSA from the household income. So the kids hang around looking for none existent jobs, only to be told on the odd interview they do get that they need better qualifications. Which they cant get because....and round the circle goes.
Under Labour's proposal they CAN go to collage to get those qualifications, and get Youth Allowance to the same level as JSA. This would apply to anyone who's parents earn under £44k (?to be confirmed, it might be 40K) This is the same amount as kicks in for university fees "means testing".
Sorry but anyone earning £40+K in this day and age can/should be able to afford to help their kids out till they start earning. If they can't then maybe its time to sell the second car.

I agree that it would be good if young people who were out of work, could go to college. It would be easy to change existing JSA laws though to allow that. In any case, why only young people? Why not also allow older people who are out of work, to retrain or take new qualifications? And what about youngsters who go to uni? The means testing there doesn't mean they get their course paid for. It just means they get a loan. They might start to wonder why the hell am I getting into 30k + of debt while my peers/siblings are paid to continue studying.

I disagree with the means testing of the parents. If I earned 40k a year, I'd be very comfortable. But if I was in rented accommodation in Watford, and if I had to use a car for work, and had to support my three youngsters, I would start to struggle. Not as much as many people already are struggling. Indeed not as much possibly as I struggle some months as it is. But why would I want to see people earning a good salary brought down to the same level of struggle as me?

What about a young person who left school at 17 and went straight into work. 7 years later they get made redundant. But, because they are only 24, the tax and NI they have paid doesn't count. How is that right? Finally though, at what stage do we consider a young person a citizen in their own right rather than an appendage of their parents? 18? 21? 25? Why not 30? Surely it should be once they reach adulthood?