Thursday 24th February 2022

[refitman]

Morning all.

Looks like there were some events over night https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60454795

[PorFavor]

Good morfternnon.

[refitman]

Rest in peace The Amazing Johnathan

[refitman]

Why would you ever trust anything Starmer says?

[gilsey]

"people are in poverty because it's somehow their fault. The majority of the time, it's not"

Lovely.

IMO Labour are going to have to rethink this on HE and tuition fees, the tories have made such a mess of it.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I mean, nitpicking over the exact words Labour people use seems somewhat the wrong focus today of all days.

[refitman]

[AnatolyKasparov]

And on the "other" wing of politics (supposedly) Galloway is saying pretty much the same thing.

[refitman]

[gilsey]

I mean, nitpicking over the exact words Labour people use seems somewhat the wrong focus today of all days.

I suppose if I didn't think she was sincere when she talked about a National Education Service, I shouldn't think she's sincere now.

On the other hand, Johnson would be very pleased if all we talk about for the next x weeks/months/years is Ukraine.
The poor Afghans* will still be starving when we're all arguing about who's going to take in UKR refugees.


*and more than a few Brits

[AnatolyKasparov]

Have to say, that is better from Corbyn than I feared.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Have to say, that is better from Corbyn than I feared.

Hollow words from a useful idiot who was still blaming NATO while an unhinged demagogue prepared to murder men, women and children and enforce his twisted will upon millions of unwilling people.

Who knows, perhaps the penny has finally dropped and Jeremy has suddenly come to understand why Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria all chose to join a defensive pact he spent decades campaigning against. Perhaps now he realises that if they'd listened to him they'd be as defenceless as Ukraine finds itself today. However after 50 years of painting NATO as the aggressor and Russia as the victim I doubt even Kiev being reduced to rubble will cause him to question his convictions.

He can call for Russia to withdraw until he's blue in the face but the simple fact is if Ukraine had been a member of NATO this wouldn't be happening and he's been wrong all these years.

[refitman]

@Sky - who exactly was pushing for a Magnitsky act, back in 2018? Your obsession with Corbyn being the worst person ever, is a little weird.

[Willow904]

All recent Labour leaders have been in support of tightening up on UK tax havens to one degree or another, at least. Contrast with the Tory party who actually took us out of the EU at great cost to the financial well-being of the nation in order to protect them. Not to mention artificially propping up house prices with tax-payer cash to protect foreign owners' investments.

And then think about why Putin feels he can afford to go to war. Squeezing him now is way, way too late.

Not to mention our over-reliance on Russian gas is a direct consequence of the way in which a previous Tory government privatised energy. At least the last Labour government invested properly in renewables. We've lost momentum under the current lot, but things could have been even worse.

[Willow904]

[Sky'sGoneOut]

@Sky - who exactly was pushing for a Magnitsky act, back in 2018? Your obsession with Corbyn being the worst person ever, is a little weird.

I agree a meaningful Magnitsky act in this country would have been a good thing and he was right to call for one, however that doesn't in any way make up for the fact that he's called for NATO to be disbanded multiple times, called it a threat to world peace and spoken out against its expansion to include the countries I mentioned above who were only looking to protect themselves from what is happening now to Ukraine. I don't think he's the worst person ever, just a naive fool and a figurehead for those on the left who share his convictions. It's not him in particular I'm angry with, it's all of them. If it wasn't already obvious I really have no problem being weird.

[PorFavor]

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Sadly there are no alt-right panelists on to explain why Russia invading Ukraine is all the fault of 'woke' lefties in favour of LGBT rights, which appears to be their preferred narrative this evening. It would have been interesting to see how that stood the test of a public airing.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I suppose the "Taxpayers Alliance" person might make a half-hearted attempt at that.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

None of my usual piss taking and nonsense tonight.

For most of the programme we heard stirring defences of liberal Western democracy, most effectively from Timothy Garton Ash and David Lammy, even James Cleverly was doing a half decent job until he accused Lammy of being a racist. Apparently accusing the Tories of taking dirty Russian money is, besides being demonstrably true, also an accusation that all Russians are corrupt. It was a pathetic and depressing response on an evening like I've never seen on QT before and I've been watching it for longer than I can remember. This was a panel in shock, like we all are, with nothing to offer besides condemnation of Putin, a bit of wishful thinking about the Ukrainians holding off the second largest military in the world and an acceptance that this will hurt us all for years to come.

Besides Cleverly letting the side down at the last minute there was a sense of unity from across the political spectrum from the Polish centre right in Sikorski to the British left in Lammy. And for good reason.

Let's be honest here, Putin has threatened the West with nuclear armaggedon if we interfere with his plans to subjugate millions of people.

This isn't just the largest invasion of a country since WWII, it's something new and terrifying instigated by a lunatic who won't sit within 60ft of his own ministers.

There's no 'other side' to this, and I was happy to see Starmer put his foot down today.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

[Sky'sGoneOut]

The last band I saw at the Ukrainian centre just up the road from me before Covid.

How dare such beautiful people be terrified by a petty thug.

[PorFavor]

That was great. Thanks.

[PorFavor]

Russian forces have apparently taken hostages at the Chernobyl site. To what end I'm not clear.

[PorFavor]

Night night.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

As far as I remember they were a collective art project with socialist principals based on the theories of some Ukrainian poet I'd never heard of.

Which comes as no surprise given my utter lack of interest in the poetry of my own country.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Some of us are a bit limited.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

And lazy.

[Sky'sGoneOut]