Saturday 29th & Sunday 30th November 2014

Post by **refitman** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 8:24 am

Morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:34 am

Morning all.

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 7h 7 hours ago
David Herdson says "Harnessing envy and resentment could be the key to GE15" http://bit.ly/1uUlES1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pitting the mansion tax against immigration 'control' measures is stretching it more than a bit. I don't see the mansion tax as born out of, or appealing to, envy and resentment. I see it as trying to address a big imbalance in the amounts people pay towards the public coffers in relation to what they have ... if it wasn't this tax it would probably be higher bands of council tax to address massive rises in property values.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:40 am

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick 15h15 hours ago
Grant Shapps seems still at old trick: follows ppl on Twitter, hoping maybe they'll follow him, & boost follower figs. Drops them days later

John PrescottVerified account
‏@johnprescott
@MichaelLCrick It's all part of @grantshapps' Long Term Algorithmic Plan

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:45 am

I'm sorry for all those of you trying to eat your breakfast - or not feeling that good this morning. This won't help.

: NeilHamiltonRecreatesThatSceneFromGhost.jpg (29.76 KiB) Viewed 20866 times

Otto English @Otto_English · 40m 40 minutes ago
Ukip's Neil Hamilton recreates "that scene" from Ghost. If you have eyes prepare to rip them out #why via @PickardJE

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:48 am

The Daily Maul (I'm keeping that one) is tying itself in knots again over the Mansion Tax. Its not my fault I've ended up with an asset worth 400% of what I paid for it, but if you reduce it to a 399% gain I'll kick and scream all the way.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:50 am

There's only one scene from Ghost I want to see him recreate and it involves a broken window, a poor latch and a terrified look on his face.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:51 am

: 9millionRenters_1MissedOpportunity.jpg (37.57 KiB) Viewed 20857 times

Shelter @Shelter · 19h 19 hours ago
JUST IN: It's outrageous that two MPs obstructed a Bill with cross-party support to end #revengeevictions.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 9:59 am

Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 18h 18 hours ago
Any liberal who votes with the government on Monday against judicial review is not worthy of the name.

They haven't been worthy of the name for some time. But, yes, it will be truly disgusting if they support Grayling's latest slash at the unchosen many. And they will.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:01 am

Morning.

Telegraph have got an interesting spin on part of Cameron's immigration speech, suggesting that all EU immigrants could be required to register at police stations on their arrival; this is apparently, to make the task of deporting them if they do not have work easier. While this is already done for arrivals from other parts of the world arriving on limited visas (especially students) attempting to introduce it, let alone enforce it, must surely run contrary to the principles of free movement agreed in the Maastricht Treaty - and let us not forget that this Treaty was negotiated by Thatcher and Major, and signed during Major's premiership. Whole thing will play well with the wavering Kippers but is just more hot air on Dave's part.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rants.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speaking of which. Major kudos to the Czech's for embarrassing Cameron with that reminder about the 88 Czech pilots who, along with 145 Poles and 352 others from Europe, the Americas and the British Empire , fought in the Battle of Britain; the highest scoring pilot during the BoB was a Czech, Sgt. Josef František, with 17 confirmed kills. If the BoB had been lost then these islands would almost certainly have fallen, so we owe those people a debt of gratitude; the petty posturing and point scoring by the likes of Cameron and Farage dishonours their memory, and reflects badly on this country in my opinion.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:22 am

https://twitter.com/whatstrending

#CameronMustGo still at number 2
#VoteLabourGetMiliband catestrophic own goal

Sticky99 · Post by **Sticky99** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:23 am

Morning all,

It has been interesting to see David Cameron’s proposals for toughening his stance against EU migrants yesterday.

Most of it was of course a load of irrelevant hot air. David Cameron knows this deep down, that most EU migrants arrive in the UK to work without any social security whatsoever - restricting JSA and tax credits is a false economy. However, the hostile reception that Cameron’s speech received from EU nation suggests that he’ll have no chance in amending EU treaties to actually make his proposals happen. Even his tinkering at the edges won’t happen, let alone doing something that would absolutely stop uncontrolled migration – boarder control and amendment to the absolute freedom of movement.

It is an inconvenient truth for the right that the vast majority of migrants come here to work. If anything the Tories set themselves up for an even bigger fall after yesterday’s speech. The speech, like his infamous immigration target in 2010 has been much publicised. Even if Cameron’s proposals over social security were agreed by other EU nations, the tougher regime would do nothing to deter EU migrants from coming to the UK. Already today voters sounded awfully skeptical today in the news bulletins, imagine how they’ll feel when they realise Dave’s window dressing achieved absolutely nothing in terms of reducing EU migration?

My own view is that EU migration is growing too fast. I don’t think we have the private and social housing or the jobs for incoming EU migrants without further inflaming tensions in communities and creating very real employment and housing issues. In terms of private-sector housing I know this is a particularly prevalent issue in my town.

Even though unemployment has been steadily been declining (officially anyway), there are still only about 500,000 vacancies for about 2 million people. And whilst people might argue we need a different economic model so that more jobs are created, in the short-term the demand for labour is only going to proliferate and the supply/demand ratio will worsen.

I don’t think it would be unreasonable for the UK to cap the number of unskilled migrants coming to the country because we already have an over-supply of lower-skilled labour. Also, whilst EU migrants may not particularly use the NHS or other public services to a great degree now, that doesn’t mean they won’t in the future. Our public services are already under great strain, a substantial factor in that strain are austerity measures, but better population-control would allow policy-makers to better plan public services.

Just how can we plan public services with any sort of accuracy if we don’t know how many people are entering the UK to reside? I think this will get worse as the EU expands.

Is my suggestion unrealistic on planet earth? Absolutely, purely because the freedom of movement is not negotiable in anyway. But I’m not a politician or indeed the PM of the country, the difference is that Call me Dave actually blurts out his unrealistic proposals in public as “policies”….that will never actually become policies.

Cameron was particularly silly in making tax credit restrictions his flagship announcement. As Jonathan Portes illustrated yesterday, the number of Eastern Europeans claiming tax credits in first year of arrival has been declining since 2010. He is well and truly chasing an issue that doesn’t exist.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:25 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm sorry for all those of you trying to eat your breakfast - or not feeling that good this morning. This won't help.
NeilHamiltonRecreatesThatSceneFromGhost.jpg

Otto English @Otto_English · 40m 40 minutes ago
Ukip's Neil Hamilton recreates "that scene" from Ghost. If you have eyes prepare to rip them out #why via @PickardJE

Jeez.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:31 am

We can't make progress by removing human freedoms and rights. Remove freedom from capital, not people.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:38 am

If we do not have the right to leave our countries, then we will be prisoners of capital.

No more Aufwedersehen, Pet because British workers will not be allowed to work elsewhere. I can't see how it would be good for us if we are kept inside while our bosses can move their money to Romania or wherever they like.

Sticky99 · Post by **Sticky99** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:54 am

Did anyone catch Question Time on Thursday? There was a single mother who said she worked but people on out-of-work benefits receive more than her net pay. There were two aspects that irked me about this.

Firstly, why did the BBC pick that question considering it had no relevance to this week’s proceedings? Secondly, whilst I felt sorry for the situation that lady was in, she was chasing a false situation, and because of her own struggles turned to good old fashioned benefit bashing.

That lady should know that if all unemployment social security ended tomorrow, her take-home pay wouldn’t increase whatsoever. “Work must pay” was banded about on the panel, yes, indeed, work must pay – employers in a lot of situations can afford to give their workers a modest pay rise but choose not to. I don’t know her exact situation, but I’m betting that rocketing rents in the private housing sector, stagnant pay, a lack of affordable childcare and high transport costs were at least some of the factors in her pay being eroded.

It is a sorry situation when the working poor now believe that the unemployed poor are responsible for their own low pay. IDS and the wider administration have achieved their aim of pitching different types of people against each other. Labour, or someone else of prominence needs to argue that working age benefits have effectively been frozen, yet are the low-paid receiving higher wages as a result?

This is already a substantial example of pay not increasing despite real-term benefit cuts, but which people will have the political will to put forward such an argument?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:55 am

Just when I think Susie Boniface aka The Fleet Street Fox only does clickbait a la Orr she goes and writes something like this!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fo ... te-4712385" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:56 am

Sticky99 wrote:Morning all,

It has been interesting to see David Cameron’s proposals for toughening his stance against EU migrants yesterday.

Most of it was of course a load of irrelevant hot air. David Cameron knows this deep down, that most EU migrants arrive in the UK to work without any social security whatsoever - restricting JSA and tax credits is a false economy. However, the hostile reception that Cameron’s speech received from EU nation suggests that he’ll have no chance in amending EU treaties to actually make his proposals happen. Even his tinkering at the edges won’t happen, let alone doing something that would absolutely stop uncontrolled migration – boarder control and amendment to the absolute freedom of movement.

It is an inconvenient truth for the right that the vast majority of migrants come here to work. If anything the Tories set themselves up for an even bigger fall after yesterday’s speech. The speech, like his infamous immigration target in 2010 has been much publicised. Even if Cameron’s proposals over social security were agreed by other EU nations, the tougher regime would do nothing to deter EU migrants from coming to the UK. Already today voters sounded awfully skeptical today in the news bulletins, imagine how they’ll feel when they realise Dave’s window dressing achieved absolutely nothing in terms of reducing EU migration?

My own view is that EU migration is growing too fast. I don’t think we have the private and social housing or the jobs for incoming EU migrants without further inflaming tensions in communities and creating very real employment and housing issues. In terms of private-sector housing I know this is a particularly prevalent issue in my town.

Even though unemployment has been steadily been declining (officially anyway), there are still only about 500,000 vacancies for about 2 million people. And whilst people might argue we need a different economic model so that more jobs are created, in the short-term the demand for labour is only going to proliferate and the supply/demand ratio will worsen.

I don’t think it would be unreasonable for the UK to cap the number of unskilled migrants coming to the country because we already have an over-supply of lower-skilled labour. Also, whilst EU migrants may not particularly use the NHS or other public services to a great degree now, that doesn’t mean they won’t in the future. Our public services are already under great strain, a substantial factor in that strain are austerity measures, but better population-control would allow policy-makers to better plan public services.

Just how can we plan public services with any sort of accuracy if we don’t know how many people are entering the UK to reside? I think this will get worse as the EU expands.

Is my suggestion unrealistic on planet earth? Absolutely, purely because the freedom of movement is not negotiable in anyway. But I’m not a politician or indeed the PM of the country, the difference is that Call me Dave actually blurts out his unrealistic proposals in public as “policies”….that will never actually become policies.

Cameron was particularly silly in making tax credit restrictions his flagship announcement. As Jonathan Portes illustrated yesterday, the number of Eastern Europeans claiming tax credits in first year of arrival has been declining since 2010. He is well and truly chasing an issue that doesn’t exist.

Although no one's listening to him and it won't gain him any more votes, I do think Ed Miliband's proposals around immigration will help to a degree. We have a lot of unskilled labour coming in because UK businesses are actively going to Eastern Europe to recruit it. Ensuring jobs aren't being solely advertised abroad will help, many would be filled domestically before the Romanians could pack their bags. Also enforcing minimum wage much more effectively, policing employment conditions, ensuring people are given proper breaks and so on would eliminate the advantages to employers of employing immigrants over home grown employees.

As for in-work benefits, I don't know if they are a draw for EU migrants but to me it seems moot. Tax credits have been a disaster domestically anyway, essentially turning into a subsidy for low-paying employers. Although well meant, they haven't worked and it needs to change generally but simply withdrawing them lets down those who have come to need them. Pay needs to better reflect the cost of living in this country, which means higher minimum wage, a cultural shift to a living wage being the norm and a push to reduce essential costs such as housing.

This, for me, is why the whole focus on immigration is such a depressing distraction, as it gets in the way of addressing many of the wider issues. Generally speaking, immigration is exacerbating problems rather than creating them. Even the pressure on schools is a policy driven problem - it's what happens when you take control of providing school places out of the hands of local government and hand it over the the vagaries of the private sector. Sitting back and hoping someone will volunteer to open a free school in an area that needs more school places is no way to run a country.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:56 am

mikems wrote:If we do not have the right to leave our countries, then we will be prisoners of capital.

No more Aufwedersehen, Pet because British workers will not be allowed to work elsewhere. I can't see how it would be good for us if we are kept inside while our bosses can move their money to Romania or wherever they like.

I was thinking about Aufwiedershen Pet yesterday - and wondering what the Germans made of the influx of British construction workers at the time ... presumably their economy was robust at the time, whilst ours definitely was not, well not for the ordinary people anyway. Who can forget Giss a job?

Where we seem to have an issue that needs to be addressed big time is with British workers being able / allowed to work in this country. Crap wages and terms and conditions, high cost of living especially housing, transport and energy, lack of skilled jobs on offer, and lack of good and widespread skills training all conspire to make it difficult for people to find, accept and keep work - let alone live on what they might earn (as opposed to receive as top ups via in work benefits). Add to that what seems to be becoming a more prevalent practice of advertising unskilled jobs either entirely outside the UK or firstly outside the UK and such recruitment firms and employers being able to collect subsidies for placing people in work ... not good, not good at all. Especially when the ads I've seen appear to be mainly for temporary agency work ... so I'm assuming there are waves of people coming in and leaving all the time - probably very good for the employer who doesn't have to give them proper contracts and terms and conditions - but not great for the community as a whole.

There needs to be more connected thinking by those that can do something about these challenges. I see us almost needing to go back and look at some of the things bigger employers used to get involved in and provide or subsidise - e.g. housing - for their essential workers. Ohso also mentioned this the other day. Instead what we have is a nurse who has lived and worked in Hackney for a very long time about to be made homeless due to soaring, unaffordable rents - and if she gets an offer of housing from the authority it is very likely to be at least 2 hours away ... crazy.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:57 am

Either Cameron's an even bigger fool than all the evidence we've had so far would indicate, or he's taking a wholly realistic calculation that he isn't going to be in a position to carry out any of these 'policies' after next May and he's positioning himself to retain some kind of leadership position in the Conservatives, which would make him a yet bigger fool than option 1! On any kind of rationally considered ground, this is nonsense.

Sticky99 · Post by **Sticky99** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:03 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Just when I think Susie Boniface aka The Fleet Street Fox only does clickbait a la Orr she goes and writes something like this!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fo ... te-4712385" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is fantastic!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:19 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Just when I think Susie Boniface aka The Fleet Street Fox only does clickbait a la Orr she goes and writes something like this!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fo ... te-4712385" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What an excellent article. It really cheered me up. I've been quite down about Black Friday as I'm just disappointed really, disappointed that British companies would want to give away items at stupid prices at a time they could expect to get full price for them simply because it's what they do in America. Disappointed that British shoppers would have anything to do with such an obviously artificially hyped event - we don't even have Thanksgiving ffs. And disappointed that both bosses and manic shoppers could have so little thought for the shop floor staff who have no choice about being there and really do deserve considerably more respect from everyone involved. It just makes me wonder what kind of a country we're turning into. I remember shopping in WH Smiths at Christmas back in the 80s and it was very busy with a queue for the till that snaked around the entire store, but everyone just waited quietly to buy their papermate pen for their niece/nephew simply happy in the knowledge that it was nearly Christmas and they could look forward to a nice day with all the family. And no one expected to get a discount, they just bought presents to suit their budget, which did mean rather a lot of soap-on-a-rope and pairs of socks, I admit, but no one got a telly in the face so it's hard not to look back without a small sense of nostalgia.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:32 am

Slight (partisan) aside. Just seen this picture up on Twitter; the tweeter formerly know as @Gail, one of the movers behind #weBackEd and #CameronMustGo, realized that Ed was on some engagements in her area last night and tweeted, as a joke, that she'd treat him to whatever he wanted at Nandos.

Well, she didn't get her Nandos, but she did get this picture and a new name, as he renamed her "Hashtag"! Oh, and apparently she was wearing heels, so he really is a very tall boy indeed.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:35 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Just when I think Susie Boniface aka The Fleet Street Fox only does clickbait a la Orr she goes and writes something like this!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fo ... te-4712385" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The really depressing point is that both she and Orr can do good stuff - but most of the time they don't want to.

Oh, and has Suzanne Moore produced evidence of this "polling showing UKIP more popular with working class voters than Labour" yet?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:56 am

Am conducting another Clanger experiment to determine the #cameronmustgo : #cameronmuststay tweet ratio. Will report back in due course - not much activity on the latter, the latest so far being:

Boboty ‏@robyatkins 7m7 minutes ago
The silence here is deafening #cameronmuststay #CameronMustGo

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:11 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Just when I think Susie Boniface aka The Fleet Street Fox only does clickbait a la Orr she goes and writes something like this!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fo ... te-4712385" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The really depressing point is that both she and Orr can do good stuff - but most of the time they don't want to.

Oh, and has Suzanne Moore produced evidence of this "polling showing UKIP more popular with working class voters than Labour" yet?

Yes, there is a level of smugness and cynicism displayed in their writing that is quite depressing; Orr especially has become a very lazy writer, trotting identikit clickbait articles, minimum effort required to meet her deadlines it seems - a classic GMG problem to be frank, following the trend set by Barbara Ellen with her tendency to recycle & rehash old articles.

And Moore produce evidence?

She is probably denying that is what she meant by now, expect the supportive articles from Burchill and Toby Young momentarily.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:28 pm

Camergone experiment update:

so far 529 say he must go; no-one's saying he should stay.

(since my last post that is)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:34 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Camergone experiment update:

so far 529 say he must go; no-one's saying he should stay.

(since my last post that is)

Don't wear out your eyes there TC.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:44 pm

As we have mentioned several times on here, this will do more to quell immigration problems that any "cap" or fiddling with numbers will ever do.

Ed Miliband will BAN firms from advertising jobs to migrants before Brit workers

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed ... ng-4714877" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EU contract workers fill these job (on sometime poor pay and conditions) whilst UK workers don't get a look in, it's not that they are to lazy to work.
A very large national hotel chain uses EU contract workers to the exclusion of UK nationals, if they employ 150 staff at each hotel (the larger ones will employ more) being forced to advertise those jobs in UK first (not excluding EU workers, but advertising here first) it would make a big difference to our workforce - and to the make up of towns and cities.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:49 pm

here we go - 714 Go : 1 Stay with the insightful and massively informed:

Æðelfriþ Iding ‏@jamessteel100 1m1 minute ago
@LabourEoin stupid unpatriotic lefties who want to destroy this nation whinging about foodbanks is getting tiresome. #CameronMustStay

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:50 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:As we have mentioned several times on here, this will do more to quell immigration problems that any "cap" or fiddling with numbers will ever do.

Ed Miliband will BAN firms from advertising jobs to migrants before Brit workers

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed ... ng-4714877" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EU contract workers fill these job (on sometime poor pay and conditions) whilst UK workers don't get a look in, it's not that they are to lazy to work.
A very large national hotel chain uses EU contract workers to the exclusion of UK nationals, if they employ 150 staff at each hotel (the larger ones will employ more) being forced to advertise those jobs in UK first (not excluding EU workers, but advertising here first) it would make a big difference to our workforce - and to the make up of towns and cities.

I love that final sentence. 'The Tory party declined to comment'. I'll bet they did.

About to go out on the doorsteps again. Beautiful day for it. If anyone raises immigration ... I'll be sure to raise this in my response.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 1:00 pm

Imo, if immigration from the EU is too high it's because economic growth on the continent is stagnant.

Merkel and the ECB need to get their fingers out and channel Keynes.

Labour's proposed reforms are necessary but not sufficient.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 1:10 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:here we go - 714 Go : 1 Stay with the insightful and massively informed:

Æðelfriþ Iding ‏@jamessteel100 1m1 minute ago
@LabourEoin stupid unpatriotic lefties who want to destroy this nation whinging about foodbanks is getting tiresome. #CameronMustStay

Does he really count? From my previous dealings with him I'm not convinced he is even on the same planet as the rest of us; for somebody who claims to be a physics teacher his grasp of facts and empirical evidence is woeful. You just know the kids in his class spend all their time taking the rise out of him, we certainly would have done in my school.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 1:21 pm

On EU migrants -

I have no idea where this idea that they are entitled to social housing comes from. They really really aren't.

If you want to get on the waiting list, before you even get that far, most councils will insist that you complete a very long application form.

You have to prove, in the vast majority of cases, that you have been resident in the area and/or have ties to the area for some time (usually years rather than months).
There are other criteria, often part of a points-based system, including make-up of household, children/dependents, disability, care-leavers, or fleeing domestic violence.
It's not easy to get on a waiting list in the first place, and in most parts of the UK the wait is a very long one - over 10 years in parts of London and the South East.

I lived on a council estate in Cheltenham before I moved here to Hay; my block had 16 flats, and only 4 of them were council-owned; the rest were privately owned and all rented out. We had 1 flat rented by Turks, 4 by Poles, and the rest were mainly locals renting privately.
I got my flat because I was an essential worker, with ties to the area, resident in the area for 17 years, and had a disability - I had to wait a few months; in that area most local people were waiting for at least two years.

I suspect that if there are lots of EU migrants living in what people think is social housing, but is probably not social housing - a lot of the flats and houses on council estates are now BTL. I doubt any young, fit, EU national coming here to work gets social housing unless they stay for years.

I am getting a bit pissed off with this idea that Brits are waiting for years for social housing because EU immigrants are getting it instead.
They're really not.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 1:22 pm

A "was Gordon Brown really that bad?" piece over there - surprisingly low on moronic trolls in the comments so far, but give them time

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 1:36 pm

Anti Academies ‏@antiacademies · 4 mins4 minutes ago
Academy principal with luminous intelligence (according to #Gove) suspended http://www.enfield-today.co.uk/news.cfm ... ol%20staff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 1:56 pm

ephemerid wrote:On EU migrants -

I have no idea where this idea that they are entitled to social housing comes from. They really really aren't.

If you want to get on the waiting list, before you even get that far, most councils will insist that you complete a very long application form.

You have to prove, in the vast majority of cases, that you have been resident in the area and/or have ties to the area for some time (usually years rather than months).
There are other criteria, often part of a points-based system, including make-up of household, children/dependents, disability, care-leavers, or fleeing domestic violence.
It's not easy to get on a waiting list in the first place, and in most parts of the UK the wait is a very long one - over 10 years in parts of London and the South East.

I lived on a council estate in Cheltenham before I moved here to Hay; my block had 16 flats, and only 4 of them were council-owned; the rest were privately owned and all rented out. We had 1 flat rented by Turks, 4 by Poles, and the rest were mainly locals renting privately.
I got my flat because I was an essential worker, with ties to the area, resident in the area for 17 years, and had a disability - I had to wait a few months; in that area most local people were waiting for at least two years.

I suspect that if there are lots of EU migrants living in what people think is social housing, but is probably not social housing - a lot of the flats and houses on council estates are now BTL. I doubt any young, fit, EU national coming here to work gets social housing unless they stay for years.

I am getting a bit pissed off with this idea that Brits are waiting for years for social housing because EU immigrants are getting it instead.
They're really not.

That one has always wound me up, been around for years too (in various incarnations). As I know I've said before, when I used to work in Housing we had to find properties for a group of Bosnian Serb asylum seekers; they got the shittiest properties on our books, the ones everybody else had rejected several times, and left them in better nick than when they moved in. But we still used to get complaints about them "coming over here, taking our jobs and/or scrounging of the state" * because of course living in a drab, rundown 60s estate in East Anglia and existing on food vouchers is the pinnacle of everybody's ambition.

* Schrodinger's immigrant is not a new phenomenon.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 2:01 pm

meanwhile, while we get to hear that cameron might have

http://metro.co.uk/2014/11/29/david-cameron-might-have-photo-bombed-obama-selfie-4967331/?

along with

http://162.13.14.158/uknews/uknews-uknews/93375/8-possible-reasons-media-yet-report-cameronmustgo/

which includes the quite reasonable proposal that:

4. They’ve mistakenly assumed #CameronMustGo is actually about Cameron Diaz

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 2:12 pm

Latest update:

1063 Go to 1 Stay:

Boboty ‏@robyatkins 8m8 minutes ago
#WBAvAFC #CameronMustGo v #CameronMustStay

1000 to 1 and still not anywhere in the MSM. How odd.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 2:18 pm

ephemerid wrote:On EU migrants -

I have no idea where this idea that they are entitled to social housing comes from. They really really aren't.

If you want to get on the waiting list, before you even get that far, most councils will insist that you complete a very long application form.

You have to prove, in the vast majority of cases, that you have been resident in the area and/or have ties to the area for some time (usually years rather than months).
There are other criteria, often part of a points-based system, including make-up of household, children/dependents, disability, care-leavers, or fleeing domestic violence.
It's not easy to get on a waiting list in the first place, and in most parts of the UK the wait is a very long one - over 10 years in parts of London and the South East.

I lived on a council estate in Cheltenham before I moved here to Hay; my block had 16 flats, and only 4 of them were council-owned; the rest were privately owned and all rented out. We had 1 flat rented by Turks, 4 by Poles, and the rest were mainly locals renting privately.
I got my flat because I was an essential worker, with ties to the area, resident in the area for 17 years, and had a disability - I had to wait a few months; in that area most local people were waiting for at least two years.

I suspect that if there are lots of EU migrants living in what people think is social housing, but is probably not social housing - a lot of the flats and houses on council estates are now BTL. I doubt any young, fit, EU national coming here to work gets social housing unless they stay for years.

I am getting a bit pissed off with this idea that Brits are waiting for years for social housing because EU immigrants are getting it instead.
They're really not.

Cheltenham, my home town!

Whereabouts did you live, if you don't mind me asking?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 2:24 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Anti Academies ‏@antiacademies · 4 mins4 minutes ago
Academy principal with luminous intelligence (according to #Gove) suspended http://www.enfield-today.co.uk/news.cfm ... ol%20staff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Michael Gove has been a regular visitor to the schools and in January 2013 Gove visited Woodpecker Hall, in Nightingale Road, where Sharon Ahmet was then acting headteacher, and used the visit to heap praise on Mrs Sowter who he said ran schools “better than the local authority”.

And people on the right wonder why he was said to be so divisive..

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 2:29 pm

I lived in Gloucester in the Martial Home (no typo) for a very long time - then rented in Arle (Sterling Court) than got a council flat in Wasley Road on the "poets" estate facing Lansdown Road just before the GCHQ roundabout.

Show had a bedsit in the Suffolks - posh or what - and we used to spend hours in Moka drinking coffee. We started the little swap library there; I wonder if it's still going?

Where are you?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 2:35 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Anti Academies ‏@antiacademies · 4 mins4 minutes ago
Academy principal with luminous intelligence (according to #Gove) suspended http://www.enfield-today.co.uk/news.cfm ... ol%20staff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Cheers.

Leaving out this sub iudice stuff, look at those collapsing 2013 SATS. Bottom in Enfield, not a well off borough.

Would be interesting to hear if Gove and Cameron got back in touch.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:00 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Anti Academies ‏@antiacademies · 4 mins4 minutes ago
Academy principal with luminous intelligence (according to #Gove) suspended http://www.enfield-today.co.uk/news.cfm ... ol%20staff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Cheers.

Leaving out this sub iudice stuff, look at those collapsing 2013 SATS. Bottom in Enfield, not a well off borough.

Would be interesting to hear if Gove and Cameron got back in touch.

What the flipping heck is "luminous intelligence"?

The lights are on and there's actually someone home?

Spooks using fluorescent highlighter magic markers?

Gove such an idiot.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:03 pm

Is it just me, or is this place very slow at the moment?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:07 pm

ephemerid wrote: What the flipping heck is "luminous intelligence"?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:07 pm

There's some stuff in an old Warwick Mansell column about some curious goings on at Cuckoo Hall.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... ademy-gove" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cuckoo Hall 'derailed' by its own staff
One of Michael Gove's favourite primary schools, Cuckoo Hall academy (pictured below) saw its results collapse in this year's rankings, making it, staggeringly, the worst performing of all 59 primaries in its local authority on the main headline measure. The school's explanation for the disappointing results is that its ambitions were derailed by "the actions of a small, critical group of staff" who have now left.

Cuckoo Hall, in Enfield, north London, had just 54% of its pupils achieving the expected level in reading, writing and maths, compared with 86% in 2012. It was one of only two Enfield primaries not to reach this year's DfE floor targets.

The 870-pupil school, which has an outstanding Ofsted rating dating from 2009, before it became an academy, was praised by Gove for its 2012 results, although, as we reported at the time, he got the name of the school wrong.

In a statement, Cuckoo Hall blames the results on "a small number of staff, who ... opposed the ethos and direction of the Cuckoo Hall Academies Trust Board and left the school by mutual consent at a critical time". The trust has now appointed a new management team, which means that "the actions of a small, critical group of staff cannot derail the ambitions of our school community in this way again," it adds. We wonder what the implications of this fall from grace will be.

Maybe that "small critical group of staff" found out what was going on...

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:09 pm

ephemerid wrote:I lived in Gloucester in the Martial Home (no typo) for a very long time - then rented in Arle (Sterling Court) than got a council flat in Wasley Road on the "poets" estate facing Lansdown Road just before the GCHQ roundabout.

Show had a bedsit in the Suffolks - posh or what - and we used to spend hours in Moka drinking coffee. We started the little swap library there; I wonder if it's still going?

Where are you?

Ah memories for me. Brother and sister (lot older than me) grew up in Arle and went to Arle School.

I went to Cheltenham College, right by the Suffolks.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:15 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:There's some stuff in an old Warwick Mansell column about some curious goings on at Cuckoo Hall.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... ademy-gove" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cuckoo Hall 'derailed' by its own staff
One of Michael Gove's favourite primary schools, Cuckoo Hall academy (pictured below) saw its results collapse in this year's rankings, making it, staggeringly, the worst performing of all 59 primaries in its local authority on the main headline measure. The school's explanation for the disappointing results is that its ambitions were derailed by "the actions of a small, critical group of staff" who have now left.

Cuckoo Hall, in Enfield, north London, had just 54% of its pupils achieving the expected level in reading, writing and maths, compared with 86% in 2012. It was one of only two Enfield primaries not to reach this year's DfE floor targets.

The 870-pupil school, which has an outstanding Ofsted rating dating from 2009, before it became an academy, was praised by Gove for its 2012 results, although, as we reported at the time, he got the name of the school wrong.

In a statement, Cuckoo Hall blames the results on "a small number of staff, who ... opposed the ethos and direction of the Cuckoo Hall Academies Trust Board and left the school by mutual consent at a critical time". The trust has now appointed a new management team, which means that "the actions of a small, critical group of staff cannot derail the ambitions of our school community in this way again," it adds. We wonder what the implications of this fall from grace will be.
Maybe that "small critical group of staff" found out what was going on...

How do a small critical group make kids get low SATs scores?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:24 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:There's some stuff in an old Warwick Mansell column about some curious goings on at Cuckoo Hall.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... ademy-gove" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cuckoo Hall 'derailed' by its own staff
One of Michael Gove's favourite primary schools, Cuckoo Hall academy (pictured below) saw its results collapse in this year's rankings, making it, staggeringly, the worst performing of all 59 primaries in its local authority on the main headline measure. The school's explanation for the disappointing results is that its ambitions were derailed by "the actions of a small, critical group of staff" who have now left.

Cuckoo Hall, in Enfield, north London, had just 54% of its pupils achieving the expected level in reading, writing and maths, compared with 86% in 2012. It was one of only two Enfield primaries not to reach this year's DfE floor targets.

The 870-pupil school, which has an outstanding Ofsted rating dating from 2009, before it became an academy, was praised by Gove for its 2012 results, although, as we reported at the time, he got the name of the school wrong.

In a statement, Cuckoo Hall blames the results on "a small number of staff, who ... opposed the ethos and direction of the Cuckoo Hall Academies Trust Board and left the school by mutual consent at a critical time". The trust has now appointed a new management team, which means that "the actions of a small, critical group of staff cannot derail the ambitions of our school community in this way again," it adds. We wonder what the implications of this fall from grace will be.
Maybe that "small critical group of staff" found out what was going on...
How do a small critical group make kids get low SATs scores?

No idea. I wonder, given that story dates from last December, at what point the Education Funding Agency will be given a good kicking for not having investigated earlier?

I'll see if I can find the last set of accounts.

OK, down on the right is the link to a pdf.

http://www.education.gov.uk/cgi-bin/sch ... i&qtype=LA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Right now I can't see anything untoward but as the library closes at 4:30 I'm going to defer a closer look until I get home.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 29 Nov, 2014 3:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:A "was Gordon Brown really that bad?" piece over there - surprisingly low on moronic trolls in the comments so far, but give them time

Don't worry - here's a piece with enough moronic trolls already there

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3619787