Wednesday 3rd December 2014

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 4:55 pm

yahyah wrote:Peter Jukes ‏@peterjukes 33 minutes ago
Ah. Apparently George Osborne misled us: he's not paying off all WW1 debt, merely re-financing it http://onforb.es/1rT00mW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #AutumnStatement

BBC say 'Government to pay off WW1 debt
Chancellor George Osborne is to pay off the UK government's remaining debt from World War One, the Treasury has announced.

The government will repay the outstanding £1.9bn of debt from a 3.5% War Loan on 9 March 2015.'

I'm suspicious of the article's content & author. He's got a fundamental problem with Ha Joon Chang, an economist I respect.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:
yahyah wrote:Peter Jukes ‏@peterjukes 33 minutes ago
Ah. Apparently George Osborne misled us: he's not paying off all WW1 debt, merely re-financing it http://onforb.es/1rT00mW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #AutumnStatement

BBC say 'Government to pay off WW1 debt
Chancellor George Osborne is to pay off the UK government's remaining debt from World War One, the Treasury has announced.

The government will repay the outstanding £1.9bn of debt from a 3.5% War Loan on 9 March 2015.'
I'm suspicious of the article's content & author. He's got a fundamental problem with Ha Joon Chang, an economist I respect.

In this case I can forgive him that JA. Any anti-Osborne ammunition is useful.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:08 pm

Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 1 hr1 hour ago London, England
Vince Cable attacks, the Autumn Statement, Danny Alexander roams the TV studios selling it, Clegg vanishes. The Lib Dems are a joke

Dippy Hodges gets it right shocker.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:15 pm

Evictions rocket as welfare reforms and rising property prices hit home
As thousands of tenants face court battles to keep the bailiffs at bay, housing charities call for greater protection for renters

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... es-tenants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No words - it's too awful & I don't know what to do.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:15 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12 ... 57114.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Farage Forced To Backtrack After Denying Ukip Policy On Sex Education In Primary Schools

: Farageasingarage.jpg (36.5 KiB) Viewed 9960 times

But more importantly how weird -looking is that Ed guy?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:18 pm

Tinyclanger2, Ed's the good-looking one in the picture below the weird-looking person.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:22 pm

Oh cripes ... Danny Alexander is piss poor at even sounding credible and authentic ... isn't he (gritting my teeth as I listen to him on PM). What a wazzock. He's trying desperately to diss both Conservative and Labour ... whilst not dissing and / or ruling out a future coalition with either of them.

News for you baby ... it's going to be cold out there.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:30 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Oh cripes ... Danny Alexander is piss poor at even sounding credible and authentic ... isn't he (gritting my teeth as I listen to him on PM). What a wazzock. He's trying desperately to diss both Conservative and Labour ... whilst not dissing and / or ruling out a future coalition with either of them.

News for you baby ... it's going to be cold out there.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:38 pm

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 5h 5 hours ago
That #PMQs was best demonstration yet of why Cameron doesn't want TV debates.

He's not going to get away with refusing them though .... looking forward to them now.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:49 pm

Isabel Hardman @IsabelHardman · 1m 1 minute ago
Turns out Clegg was taking advice offered by sage @stephentall on not bothering to turn up to PMQs/Autumn Statement http://www.libdemvoice.org/5-things-nic ... 41347.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Owww. That's a bit catty for her ... she doesn't usually do catty.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 5:59 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Oh cripes ... Danny Alexander is piss poor at even sounding credible and authentic ... isn't he (gritting my teeth as I listen to him on PM). What a wazzock. He's trying desperately to diss both Conservative and Labour ... whilst not dissing and / or ruling out a future coalition with either of them.

News for you baby ... it's going to be cold out there.

That looks to be based on the current projections where Labour basically collapse in Scotland. Wonder if they could actually beat Alexander in that constituency.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:04 pm

The Guardian view on George Osborne: he cannot be serious
The chancellor poses as steadfast, but he continually rewrites his ‘long-term plan’ and has not come clean about the dreadful consequences of the endless cutting buried in the smallprin

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... be-serious

Well I never. Criticism.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:07 pm

Am I alone in detecting that someone in the upper reaches of the Labour party has got hold of both Miliband and Balls and started feeding 'em zingers for public consumption? Both today seemed to be hitting the Tories with memorable and repetitive slogans - accurate ones as well. If so, then well done whoever's sorted it out. Miliband was apparently very effective in PMQs, and, if anything, it seems that Ed Balls did even better. Good. It's about time both of them added fire to their repetoires, and catchy memroables themes are an excellent way to do it. Repetition is an old oratorical trick (cf, Shakespeare's Julius Caesar "...all honourable men..."), but it can be devastating when deployed correctly. Someone, somewhere's just earned a night on the piss.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:07 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Oh cripes ... Danny Alexander is piss poor at even sounding credible and authentic ... isn't he (gritting my teeth as I listen to him on PM). What a wazzock. He's trying desperately to diss both Conservative and Labour ... whilst not dissing and / or ruling out a future coalition with either of them.

News for you baby ... it's going to be cold out there.

Being ignored is the pits if you believe there's no such thing as bad publicity. Twitter is eerily silent when it comes to the LibDems. They're history.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:11 pm

Paul Mason @paulmasonnews · 1h 1 hour ago
IPPR crunches numbers for departmental cuts by 2019. £9bn off defence, £4bn off local govt. More at 7pm. See below...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:13 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:Am I alone in detecting that someone in the upper reaches of the Labour party has got hold of both Miliband and Balls and started feeding 'em zingers for public consumption? Both today seemed to be hitting the Tories with memorable and repetitive slogans - accurate ones as well. If so, then well done whoever's sorted it out. Miliband was apparently very effective in PMQs, and, if anything, it seems that Ed Balls did even better. Good. It's about time both of them added fire to their repetoires, and catchy memroables themes are an excellent way to do it. Repetition is an old oratorical trick (cf, Shakespeare's Julius Caesar "...all honourable men..."), but it can be devestating when deployed correctly. Someone, somewhere's just earned a night on the piss.

Timing is everything. I have been predicting things would begin to rev up as the GE draws ever nearer. And Ed Balls demolishing Osborne's Autumn Statement figures has to have been worked on for months.

Remember. Slowly, slowly catchee monkey.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:17 pm

citizenJA wrote:Vince Cable delivers broadside against autumn statement figures
Exclusive: Business secretary questions whether spending cuts will be possible and calls on chancellor to be more honest with voters

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nt-figures" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd forgotten about him, sincerely. How sad is that?

Was wondering how we might judge the success of a Business Secretary.

Exports? Business Investment?

Oh dear.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:24 pm

John Francis ‏@jfilm53 10h10 hours ago
@red13charlie
Gideon's got a plan
Our debt is past the joke
He's been crunching stats all night
And snorting lines of coke

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:27 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Mason @paulmasonnews · 1h 1 hour ago
IPPR crunches numbers for departmental cuts by 2019. £9bn off defence, £4bn off local govt. More at 7pm. See below...

£9bn off defence?

No chance of Tories approving that in practice, surely?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:28 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:Am I alone in detecting that someone in the upper reaches of the Labour party has got hold of both Miliband and Balls and started feeding 'em zingers for public consumption? Both today seemed to be hitting the Tories with memorable and repetitive slogans - accurate ones as well. If so, then well done whoever's sorted it out. Miliband was apparently very effective in PMQs, and, if anything, it seems that Ed Balls did even better. Good. It's about time both of them added fire to their repetoires, and catchy memroables themes are an excellent way to do it. Repetition is an old oratorical trick (cf, Shakespeare's Julius Caesar "...all honourable men..."), but it can be devestating when deployed correctly. Someone, somewhere's just earned a night on the piss.
Timing is everything. I have been predicting things would begin to rev up as the GE draws ever nearer. And Ed Balls demolishing Osborne's Autumn Statement figures has to have been worked on for months.

Remember. Slowly, slowly catchee monkey.

In action, be aware of the time and the season.

http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/Lao ... chor_13479" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:28 pm

Iain Dale ‏@IainDale 2h2 hours ago
Extraordinary interview with Vince Cable who effectively signed up to Ballsonomics & confirmed his civil servants won't help prepare 4 cuts

Keith Escott
‏@Hammers54
@IainDale As a civil servant I find that shameful. All my life I have helped to implement things I did not agree, but that's my job.

Iain Dale retweeted
Labour Press Team @labourpress · 58m 58 minutes ago
.@IainDale and apparently refusing to do a discussion with a shadow minister on Sky News

Iain Dale @IainDale · 1h 1 hour ago
So @pritipatelmp pulls out of i/view with three minutes notice. No Other Treasury ministers available. Amateur hour. LibDems all over media

Do you think the Lib Dems got the Tories to agree a short period of silence while the Lib Dems tried to do a bit of de-coupling on the media? Nah ... surely they're not that clever or co-ordinated. It's just the normal faint bleating and fudging.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:29 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Mason @paulmasonnews · 1h 1 hour ago
IPPR crunches numbers for departmental cuts by 2019. £9bn off defence, £4bn off local govt. More at 7pm. See below...
£9bn off defence?

No chance of Tories approving that in practice, surely?

Not these Tories, Tubby, they won't & don't care.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:31 pm

Some Labour reshuffling this evening:

Lord Bach as Shadow Attorney General
Chris Bryant moved to DCMS (That'll be popular with Rupert Murdoch I'm sure...)
Helen Goodman becomes Shadow Welfare Reform Minister
Karl Turner becomes Shadow Solicitor General

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:35 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Mason @paulmasonnews · 1h 1 hour ago
IPPR crunches numbers for departmental cuts by 2019. £9bn off defence, £4bn off local govt. More at 7pm. See below...
£9bn off defence?

No chance of Tories approving that in practice, surely?

I'm not so sure Tubby. They seem to think that Corporal Jones and his bayonet could sort out the Middle East on his ownsome these days.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:36 pm

Interesting LBC poll
Who do you trust most on the economy (yes I know they are easily manipulated but - LBC?) Ha
http://www.lbc.co.uk/vote-who-do-you-tr ... result-320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who do you trust most to run the economy?

57.5% Miliband & Balls
42.5% Cameron & Osborne
Thanks for your vote.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:36 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
£9bn off defence?

No chance of Tories approving that in practice, surely?
I'm not so sure Tubby. They seem to think that Corporal Jones and his bayonet could sort out the Middle East on his ownsome these days.

Backbenchers don't like Defence being cut as it is.

I've been pleasantly surprised by them making the cuts they have, but don't think they can do more.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:37 pm

Jon Snow @jonsnowC4 · 20h 20 hours ago
Well spotted @CLARESAMBROOK G4S goes for £135 million: Prisons;military supply and so much more now in the hands of the raw profit merchants

Jon Snow @jonsnowC4 · 21h 21 hours ago
Private Equity firm buys unloved G4S:The Government's favorite private provider...do they know what they've bought? http://fw.to/GLA85nm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wonderful news.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:41 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Interesting LBC poll
Who do you trust most on the economy (yes I know they are easily manipulated but - LBC?) Ha
http://www.lbc.co.uk/vote-who-do-you-tr ... result-320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who do you trust most to run the economy?

57.5% Miliband & Balls
42.5% Cameron & Osborne
Thanks for your vote.

Now at

62.1% Miliband & Balls
37.9% Cameron & Osborne

Meaningless as you said but still quite funny.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:42 pm

Ha ha.

Cable asserts economic independence- top story on Guardian.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:42 pm

Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 3h3 hours ago
A hidden nasty in the Autumn Statement spotted: Universal Credit roll out has been purposefully delayed to save £1.8bn by 2019-20.

Jonathan Portes ‏@jdportes 3h3 hours ago
@tnewtondunn @MrRBourne How is it "purposeful"? OBR has simply said, given history, DWP plans aren't credible, will slip (yet again).

Tom Newton Dunn
‏@tnewtondunn
@jdportes @MrRBourne this is what I've been told by someone senior in the Coalition. Not OBR's verdict that forced it back, a money saver.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Jon Snow @jonsnowC4 · 20h 20 hours ago
Well spotted @CLARESAMBROOK G4S goes for £135 million: Prisons;military supply and so much more now in the hands of the raw profit merchants

Jon Snow @jonsnowC4 · 21h 21 hours ago
Private Equity firm buys unloved G4S:The Government's favorite private provider...do they know what they've bought? http://fw.to/GLA85nm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wonderful news.

What.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:47 pm

Balls uncovers black hole in Osborne's NHS spending plan

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... nding-plan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They seem to have said today that this is going to come from underspends. But it's very hard to spend prospective underspends as opposed to underspends that you have now, especially departmental underspends. How can you know if a department's going to underspend in the future?

Osborne's announcements tumble like the house of cards they are.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:48 pm

Poll: Autumn Statement 2014 Poll

Who do you trust most to run the economy?

64% Miliband & Balls
36% Cameron & Osborne

http://www.lbc.co.uk/vote-who-do-you-tr ... result-320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:49 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Jon Snow @jonsnowC4 · 20h 20 hours ago
Well spotted @CLARESAMBROOK G4S goes for £135 million: Prisons;military supply and so much more now in the hands of the raw profit merchants

Jon Snow @jonsnowC4 · 21h 21 hours ago
Private Equity firm buys unloved G4S:The Government's favorite private provider...do they know what they've bought? http://fw.to/GLA85nm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wonderful news.
What.

Complete sarcasm on my part.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:51 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Interesting LBC poll
Who do you trust most on the economy (yes I know they are easily manipulated but - LBC?) Ha
http://www.lbc.co.uk/vote-who-do-you-tr ... result-320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who do you trust most to run the economy?

57.5% Miliband & Balls
42.5% Cameron & Osborne
Thanks for your vote.

F*** me, just voted, and noted that it's now the Eds 65 to 35...! Means nowt of course, but you do have to wonder....

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:53 pm

FT Westminster ‏@ftwestminster 4m4 minutes ago
Cable asks OBR to spell out differences

Hopefully OBR tell him to get lost.

It's not their job to look at party manifestos.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:57 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Wonderful news.
What.
Complete sarcasm on my part.

And I'm either too slow or too tired to have understood you, apologies! I literally thought some Private Equity firm we know by name striking fear in the hearts' of normal people had purchased our air supply or something else we need.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 6:58 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Interesting LBC poll
Who do you trust most on the economy (yes I know they are easily manipulated but - LBC?) Ha
http://www.lbc.co.uk/vote-who-do-you-tr ... result-320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who do you trust most to run the economy?

57.5% Miliband & Balls
42.5% Cameron & Osborne
Thanks for your vote.
F*** me, just voted, and noted that it's now the Eds 65 to 35...! Means nowt of course, but you do have to wonder....

Dare to hope. I took the quiz too. My results are up yonder.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:01 pm

How does a government know it's going to have an underspend in the future? Are there plans in place to guarantee underspending will happen? I'm alarmed.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:01 pm

67-33 now.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:05 pm

Poll: Autumn Statement 2014 Poll

Who do you trust most to run the economy?

67.7% Miliband & Balls
32.3% Cameron & Osborne
Thanks for your vote.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:07 pm

"He said 'This will just be money that will be found in the overall numbers. "

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... nding-plan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:07 pm

Poll: Autumn Statement 2014 Poll

Who do you trust most to run the economy?

http://www.lbc.co.uk/vote-who-do-you-tr ... omy-101375" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:How does a government know it's going to have an underspend in the future? Are there plans in place to guarantee underspending will happen? I'm alarmed.

The only way to guarantee the underspend is if they force the NHS to make even more 'efficiencies' or cuts as they are known in non-management-bullshitese. Which considering a load of NHS Trusts are currently close to being £1billion overspent and in financial difficult due to existing 'efficiencies' makes the whole thing complete made-up nonsense. It's a pledge they simply do not intend to keep in any way, it exists for electioneering only.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:10 pm

Evening all. Playing catch up, so let me see if I've got this straight:

- Ed Miliband ripped OGRFPG a new one in PMQs
- Dave fluffed his killer line and made himself look a total tit
- Dennis Skinner tore OGRFPG a new one
- Ed Balls used a point of order to tear OGRFPG a new one
- Gideon, not looking a whole lot better than he did last week, said everything was fine and if it wasn't fine it was Labour's fault
- Ed Balls was handed a copy of the OBR notes and promptly tore holes in Gideon's speech and tattered his credibility
- Nick "I'm Not With stupid" Clegg has decided he doesn't want to appear in public with OGRFPG and Gideon any more
- Vince Cable is still a prize plonker
- Gideon's cunningly hidden elephant trap is a bit of tinkering with stamp duty in a desperate attempt to keep his property bubble inflated
- Everybody thinks Gideon's (very late) Autumn Statement was farcical ....everybody but good ol' Havisham Hodges

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/autu ... -fate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did I miss anything, or has that about covered it?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:11 pm

From the New Statesman article

It's also worth noting Table 1.12 on p.8 of the OBR document, which reveals that the new money for the NHS in 2015-16 was allocated "after the economy forecast had been closed", suggesting that it was a last-minute decision.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... nding-plan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:12 pm

hashtag update

During the course of today (from mid-morning):
CMG
AS
CMS
VLGM

But CMG now on day 10 and back at #1

(Sorry posted this by mistake trying to use tab function - full update next post)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:17 pm

hashtag update

During the course of today (from mid-morning):
CMG 7510 - of most recent 10 9 overtly anti-Tory
AS 8543 - of most recent 10 none overtly pro-Tory - 5 overtly not
CMS 24
VLGM 1

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:18 pm

If Osborne’s plans are followed, public spending will shrink to 1930s levels
The chancellor did his best to bury the bad news, but the cuts needed to achieve his plan would be huge – and probably impossible

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 03 Dec, 2014 7:19 pm

OBR have made pretty optimistic assumptions about the current account.

Martin Wolf doesn't see it.