Wednesday 15th June 2022

[refitman]

Morning all.

[Willow904]

[AnatolyKasparov]

So the government aren't actually going to kick the clergy out of the Lords, then?

Quelle surprise.

People really need to let go of this learned helplessness that they are demonic 9-dimensional chess players, who have mapped out in painstaking detail their total domination until the end of time. Yes the Brexit vote happened, and the last GE happened, and both of these were very bad. But what becomes more evident by the day is that they got lucky in numerous respects.

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

Some of the costs (footed by the tax-payers) of the Rwanda transportation exercise are "Commercial in Confidence". Ah, that old chestnut.

[PorFavor]

Jessica Elgot
@jessicaelgot
Starmer's spokesman has declined to say whether Labour would cancel the Rwanda policy if in government, though deeply critical of the policy's cost and efficiency. But declines to clarify if Starmer believes it is morally wrong.
1:30 PM · Jun 15, 2022
(Politics Live, Guardian)

[AnatolyKasparov]

Its actually part of what I said before, the right wing press in this country has warped people's brains.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

People really need to let go of this learned helplessness that they are demonic 9-dimensional chess players, who have mapped out in painstaking detail their total domination until the end of time.

I'm not sure anyone does think that, more that they're a bunch of cynical pig ignorant chancers making shit up as they go along in a unceasingly desperate bid to keep themselves in power by appealing to the greediest and stupidest people in soceity. There's nothing clever about it. How could there be with Patel, Raab, Truss, Braverman, Dories, et al? Never mind 9 dimensional chess, you'd struggle to teach them how to play rock paper scissors.

Despite the faux-intellectual gibbering of the right wing think tanks and the likes of the Spectator there's very little method to the madness and what method there is is as subtle as a brick and wholly unoriginal. Picking on foreigners has been popular with idiots for thousands of years, as has picking fights with your neighbours. Even selling off the state has a long undistinguished history.

The only thing keeping these venal clowns in power is our ludicrous, antediluvian electoral system that stacks everything in their favour. Even with the miserable compromise of AV Corbyn would have been able to form a coalition and become Prime Minister in 2017. When/if Labour ever do get back into power I fully expect they'll find the demand for electoral reform unavoidable, especially if they're part of a coalition, which looks likely.

[refitman]

Jessica Elgot
@jessicaelgot
Starmer's spokesman has declined to say whether Labour would cancel the Rwanda policy if in government, though deeply critical of the policy's cost and efficiency. But declines to clarify if Starmer believes it is morally wrong.
1:30 PM · Jun 15, 2022
(Politics Live, Guardian)

[AnatolyKasparov]

People really need to let go of this learned helplessness that they are demonic 9-dimensional chess players, who have mapped out in painstaking detail their total domination until the end of time.

I'm not sure anyone does think that

They do though, you see that sort of sentiment on the Tw*tters regularly.

(and certainly re this Rwanda business - mopium like "it will be massively popular" regularly asserted, even though its actually not)

[Sky'sGoneOut]

They do though, you see that sort of sentiment on the Tw*tters regularly.

Fair point, failing to take the intellectual colossi of Twitter into account was an unforgiveable oversight on my part.

"it will be massively popular" regularly asserted, even though its actually not

Unfortunately it is according to the polls, by a margin of almost 2 to 1 in favour.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Citation please?

Latest poll (out just today) shows 36% support and 50% don't.

(you're not thinking of the promiently reported stats that most *Tories* support it are you)

[tinyclanger2]

hello!

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Citation please?

Polls show support for Rwanda immigration plans, despite public outrage.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/polls-suppo ... ns-1683903

I'll be more than happy if that's wrong.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

hello!

Hello there. Lovely day for it.

[refitman]

Citation please?

Polls show support for Rwanda immigration plans, despite public outrage.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/polls-suppo ... ns-1683903

I'll be more than happy if that's wrong.

When we repeated the question about 10 days later, and after more details about the policy had been circulated, we found slightly reduced levels of support; this time, 41 per cent, down seven percentage points, while 28 per cent opposed it. Support for the policy appeared to come from Conservative quarters, though, where 60 per cent of those who voted Conservative in 2019 backed it, compared to just a quarter of Labour (26 per cent) and Liberal Democrat (23 per cent) voters.

The polling is from April and it's the conservative voters pulling the % up.

[PorFavor]

@tinyclanger2

Hello!

[Sky'sGoneOut]

The polling is from April and it's the conservative voters pulling the % up.

I understand that but there's still a disturbingly large chunk of Labour and Lib Dem voters in favour of it. As I said if attitudes have changed since then and someone can provide a poll which demonstrates that I'd be delighted to see it.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Citation please?

Polls show support for Rwanda immigration plans, despite public outrage.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/polls-suppo ... ns-1683903

I'll be more than happy if that's wrong.

Well there has been one instance provided by me above.

As the linked article makes clear, it (as is often the case) depends on exactly how the question is asked. Some polls have suggested inaccurately that this is about processing - that tends to win wider support. But even the quoted figures are different from the *overwhelming* (and very much cross party) support that anti-immigration stuff was routinely getting less than a decade ago. This is not going to restore Tory fortunes, even if it had been implemented competently.

[refitman]

The polling is from April and it's the conservative voters pulling the % up.

I understand that but there's still a disturbingly large chunk of Labour and Lib Dem voters in favour of it. As I said if attitudes have changed since then and someone can provide a poll which demonstrates that I'd be delighted to see it.

Well...if Starmer didn't keep tacking right in his messaging....

[refitman]

Also, they haven't actually linked to the polling data, so we can't see what was asked and the full numbers (per AK above).

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Well there has been one instance provided by me above.

Do you have a link for it? I'm not trying to be an arse about this, I'd genuinely love to see such a poll, I just can't find one.

Mind you I did end up in a state of irritated confusion in Home Bargains today because they'd moved the bird food and when I eventually found it I realised I'd walked past and looked at it at least three times.

The rest of your post I completely agree with.

[refitman]

@Sky - I had the same problem with coleslaw in Morrisons, only I never actually found it ☹

[Sky'sGoneOut]

MP In Northern Ireland Office Withdraws Call For UK To Ditch Key Condition Of Peace Agreement.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... t-facebook

A senior MP in the Northern Ireland Office has withdrawn his call for the government to cut ties with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) after it was pointed out that the Good Friday peace deal requires the UK's participation.

Jonathan Gullis, the parliamentary private secretary to Brandon Lewis, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland...

Wait, what? Jonathan Gullis has a government job? Christ almighty. What next, are they going to start employing actual chimpanzees?

[Sky'sGoneOut]

@Sky - I had the same problem with coleslaw in Morrisons, only I never actually found it ☹

That'll ruin your day.

[Willow904]

Re support for the Rwandan policy. Though I struggle to understand it, I can well believe it given support for the death penalty only fell below 50% in 2015. I think it's encouraging at least that fewer people supported it after learning more about it, which is more than you can say of the average Tory MP.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Well there has been one instance provided by me above.

Do you have a link for it? I'm not trying to be an arse about this, I'd genuinely love to see such a poll, I just can't find one.

Mind you I did end up in a state of irritated confusion in Home Bargains today because they'd moved the bird food and when I eventually found it I realised I'd walked past and looked at it at least three times.

The rest of your post I completely agree with.

Soz, it was a poll out today by JL Partners. Though I was also slightly misremembering - it doesn't actually use the words "support/oppose" but says 36% see the Rwanda scheme as "sensible" whereas 50% say it is "unworkable". Though it can fairly be stated that isn't really a decisive vote of confidence either.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Good to see Labour's Ian Murray on Newsnight making it absolutely clear that the Rwandan policy is unnaceptable in any way shape or form.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Soz, it was a poll out today by JL Partners. Though I was also slightly misremembering - it doesn't actually use the words "support/oppose" but says 36% see the Rwanda scheme as "sensible" whereas 50% say it is "unworkable". Though it can fairly be stated that isn't really a decisive vote of confidence either.

Cheers AK, I tracked it down using the clues you provided.