Thursday 4th December 2014

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 1:17 pm

I'm frightened by the people currently in government. I'm frightened by the people supporting the Tory-led coalition. Please vote as you must to satisfy your own conscience. Vote.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 1:30 pm

Lonewolfie wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.
My entry for Simon Mayo's "Three Word Thursday" on Radio 2:
Fucking Alan Titchmarsh.
Who is, and what with?

Apologies ladies and gentlemen, I had no wish to poison your minds with such images.

I should have said:

Alan Fucking Titchmarsh

and shown you this:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... at-4744382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 1:30 pm

Well that should shore up the Labour vote. Vote anything else in a Tory / Labour marginal and you are voting for the end of the welfare state.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 1:38 pm

Titchmarsh (daughters Polly and Camilla). Worth every penny of the licence fee.

How about a new hashtag event #yetmoreshowswiththatsmuggettitchmarshplease

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 1:41 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.
My entry for Simon Mayo's "Three Word Thursday" on Radio 2:
Fucking Alan Titchmarsh.
Who is, and what with?
Apologies ladies and gentlemen, I had no wish to poison your minds with such images.

I should have said:

Alan Fucking Titchmarsh

and shown you this:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... at-4744382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

..and I apologise for the crude response...couldn't resist though

...his brand of political passion is exactly what Ukip needs

In other news, I'm wondering how big this might get now (scooped from Mr Jukes)...

http://blog.cps.gov.uk/2014/12/action-o ... hmood.html

...and this came from #CMG...

http://www.thelocal.fr/20141204/france- ... o-the-poor

Toodle-pip

Kam · Post by **Kam** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 1:44 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... are_btn_tw

The stench around News UK / News International will continue to reek for quite a while, if Labour win the election (which looks likely) expect Leveson 2 to make a real impact as alluded to by Tom Watson in his lecture delivered yesterday. Chris Bryant's promotion to his new role just adds to my feeling of an impact.

Its an organisation that is still rotten to the core nothing has changed, just a bit of window dressing here and there. I should know because I used to work for them.

kam

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 1:57 pm

Kam wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... are_btn_tw

The stench around News UK / News International will continue to reek for quite a while, if Labour win the election (which looks likely) expect Leveson 2 to make a real impact as alluded to by Tom Watson in his lecture delivered yesterday. Chris Bryant's promotion to his new role just adds to my feeling of an impact.

Its an organisation that is still rotten to the core nothing has changed, just a bit of window dressing here and there. I should know because I used to work for them.

kam

Whilst I'm still rabble rousing for a labour landslide, on the I'm-alright-jack Titchmarsh Mirror thread in the "how will you vote" box 65% say they will vote Ukip and only 19% Labour
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... at-4744382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kam · Post by **Kam** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:07 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Kam wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... are_btn_tw

The stench around News UK / News International will continue to reek for quite a while, if Labour win the election (which looks likely) expect Leveson 2 to make a real impact as alluded to by Tom Watson in his lecture delivered yesterday. Chris Bryant's promotion to his new role just adds to my feeling of an impact.

Its an organisation that is still rotten to the core nothing has changed, just a bit of window dressing here and there. I should know because I used to work for them.

kam
Whilst I'm still rabble rousing for a labour landslide, on the I'm-alright-jack Titchmarsh Mirror thread in the "how will you vote" box 65% say they will vote Ukip and only 19% Labour

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... at-4744382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pinches of salt and all that I'd say, the way UKIP cyber-naught's descend on BTL comment threads it probably a case of them descending on The Mirror poll and clicking away like mad in between swigs of real ale and drags of woodbine fags

As the election nears and Farage and company come under more scrutiny the lustre will dull, just as it did when students called out Farage over sex education the other day.

Kam

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:08 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Kam wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... are_btn_tw

The stench around News UK / News International will continue to reek for quite a while, if Labour win the election (which looks likely) expect Leveson 2 to make a real impact as alluded to by Tom Watson in his lecture delivered yesterday. Chris Bryant's promotion to his new role just adds to my feeling of an impact.

Its an organisation that is still rotten to the core nothing has changed, just a bit of window dressing here and there. I should know because I used to work for them.

kam
Whilst I'm still rabble rousing for a labour landslide, on the I'm-alright-jack Titchmarsh Mirror thread in the "how will you vote" box 65% say they will vote Ukip and only 19% Labour
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/al ... at-4744382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Population of Trumpton must be busy voting.

In other news ....

Uxbridge editor ‏@Uxeditor · 44m44 minutes ago
@MayorofLondon ticket office closure schedule out. #Uxbridge & South #Ruislip among first. Boris standing in ... err
http://bit.ly/1rZxdYh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:11 pm

Kam wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... are_btn_tw

The stench around News UK / News International will continue to reek for quite a while, if Labour win the election (which looks likely) expect Leveson 2 to make a real impact as alluded to by Tom Watson in his lecture delivered yesterday. Chris Bryant's promotion to his new role just adds to my feeling of an impact.

Its an organisation that is still rotten to the core nothing has changed, just a bit of window dressing here and there. I should know because I used to work for them.

kam

Very much my feeling. Although Ed has been pretty much saying it for a while anyway, Chris Bryant's move to DCMS is a clear signal that Labour will move swiftly to Leveson 2. A fairly convincing two finger response to the meeja's recent attacks, n'est ce pas?

Kam · Post by **Kam** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:14 pm

Population of Trumpton must be busy voting.

Couldn't resist (sorry)

Trumpton Riots

http://youtu.be/Ao19eROwu_c

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:16 pm

Mark Pritchard, eh? Much as though I'd love it to be true, I can't help thinking (being appraised of no more facts than those reported in the Guardian) this is just stirring.

In other news, I become increasingly less bothered by the polls. Even if Scotland goes 100% SNP, they'll still be beholden to Westminster, and have to take a view on whether the head of the Labour Party or the head of the Tory Party becomes Prime Minister, provided Hague doesn't get his EV4EL proposals in before May, and if Sturgeon even has a whiff of supporting a Tory/UKIP Coalition then she'll metaphorically get what William Wallace did from the Scots.

Not saying that the SNP won't hold Labour's feet to the flames north of the border, however, but down south it should largely be Labour policy.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:29 pm

DonutHingeParty wrote:Mark Pritchard, eh? Much as though I'd love it to be true, I can't help thinking (being appraised of no more facts than those reported in the Guardian) this is just stirring.

In other news, I become increasingly less bothered by the polls. Even if Scotland goes 100% SNP, they'll still be beholden to Westminster, and have to take a view on whether the head of the Labour Party or the head of the Tory Party becomes Prime Minister, provided Hague doesn't get his EV4EL proposals in before May, and if Sturgeon even has a whiff of supporting a Tory/UKIP Coalition then she'll metaphorically get what William Wallace did from the Scots.

Not saying that the SNP won't hold Labour's feet to the flames north of the border, however, but down south it should largely be Labour policy.

Sturgeon said unambiguously didn't she that the SNP would never enter coalition with the Tories.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:30 pm

DonutHingeParty wrote:Mark Pritchard, eh? Much as though I'd love it to be true, I can't help thinking (being appraised of no more facts than those reported in the Guardian) this is just stirring.

In other news, I become increasingly less bothered by the polls. Even if Scotland goes 100% SNP, they'll still be beholden to Westminster, and have to take a view on whether the head of the Labour Party or the head of the Tory Party becomes Prime Minister, provided Hague doesn't get his EV4EL proposals in before May, and if Sturgeon even has a whiff of supporting a Tory/UKIP Coalition then she'll metaphorically get what William Wallace did from the Scots.

Not saying that the SNP won't hold Labour's feet to the flames north of the border, however, but down south it should largely be Labour policy.

As interesting as the Scottish polling is, it's the marginals polling that's making me optimistic.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:39 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
DonutHingeParty wrote:Mark Pritchard, eh? Much as though I'd love it to be true, I can't help thinking (being appraised of no more facts than those reported in the Guardian) this is just stirring.

In other news, I become increasingly less bothered by the polls. Even if Scotland goes 100% SNP, they'll still be beholden to Westminster, and have to take a view on whether the head of the Labour Party or the head of the Tory Party becomes Prime Minister, provided Hague doesn't get his EV4EL proposals in before May, and if Sturgeon even has a whiff of supporting a Tory/UKIP Coalition then she'll metaphorically get what William Wallace did from the Scots.

Not saying that the SNP won't hold Labour's feet to the flames north of the border, however, but down south it should largely be Labour policy.
Sturgeon said unambiguously didn't she that the SNP would never enter coalition with the Tories.

Why yes, yes she did.
http://news.sky.com/story/1373946/sturg ... -coalition

In her speech at the SNP annual conference in Perth, she said: "The SNP will never put the Tories into government."

She also indicated that she would be prepared to use SNP MPs to prop up a minority Ed Miliband government at Westminster on an issue-by-issue basis.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 2:43 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:Morning all...

I saw a bit on here about Cuba last night....I'd like to add my appreciation and respect for Castro and Cuba along with others here They are, of course, only slightly more people-centric than Britain from 1945 to 1979...but they were able to resist the Neo-Liberal coup (mostly as Castro had already told the US to f*** off, depriving them of their 'playground' so, as with bulllies everywhere, they tried to force change through 'sanctions' and failed)....

Edit to add - In fact, the hat in the avatar is a genuine reversible Cuban beret
I like the beret a lot - now everyone will want one - I know I do.

My whole life, the loudest voices taught me people try to escape Cuba in rubber rafts, Castro emptied Cuba's prisons & sent them adrift pointing them in the direction of the USA & Cubaiswrongm'kay. Fortunately, I've also had teachers rounding out that information with what they knew to be true of Cuba's collective society benefiting many.

The US CIA Factbook website has some good information in it - though it narrates with one point of view - fiscal instruments used to benefit a few, not the many. After reading the details on a regular basis I see the editorial content inserted into the definitions.

I'm going to go out on a limb here by posting a quote from Bill Bryson:
...puts me in mind of what Britain might have been like under Communism.

It has long seemed to me unfortunate - and I'm taking the global view here - that such an important experiment in social organization was left to the Russians when the British would have managed it so much better.

Please understand I'm not saying that Britain would have been a happier, better place under Communism, merely that the British would have done it properly. They would have taken it in their stride, with good heart, and without excessive cheating.

http://readfreeonline.net/OnlineBooks/N ... nd_35.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've only quoted what I consider the parts I can more or less agree with (though I'm more sanguine about a communist UK being a good thing now) - the rest I leave to my friends here to either read more from the page linked above.

I know just a little about Bryson & haven't read all of his books though I've sold many to others when I worked in an independent, brick & mortar book store.

I re-read Bill Bryson's books. Love 'em. And I think he pinned the British character pretty accurately when he originally wrote about England. He's another that chose to live here. Things have changed a lot since then.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 3:09 pm

For Lady C and anbody else interested.Proposed benefit and pension rates.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 15-to-2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 3:18 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Faisal Islam retweeted
LBC @LBC · 3h 3 hours ago
Clegg: We'd borrow less than Labour and cut less than the Conservatives. http://l-bc.co/C1egg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #CallClegg
The 'Lesser Lib Dem'. A haunted looking bird with pronounced yellow belly and feet designed with suction pads to cling on especially hard to whichever branch of power it attains. The call is a repetitive, futile bleat which sounds increasingly like tootle pip as it fades away. Its mating dance and call is a mock aggressive preen - its yellow belly puffs out to reveal bright orange under feathers. But it is unable to keep up this stance for any length of time and falls over on its back, legs in the air and yellow colouring returned, within minutes.

Once prevalent around the British Isles - favourite haunts Scotland, parts of the North, South West and East - this bird is now on the currently endangered list.
Brilliant!

I always liked my dad's description of someone chasing a lost cause.

Like the Greater Spotted Oozlum. Flying around in ever decreasing circles until it disappears up its own arse.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 3:21 pm

My entry for Simon Mayo's "Three Word Thursday" on Radio 2:

Whooooo, Strong gear.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 3:25 pm

http://www.bestdaily.co.uk/your-life/ne ... e-web.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some coverage of CMG - from two days ago but still went to the effort to pick out some examples to flag. I particularly enjoyed the Nigel Farage breaking news at the end.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 3:28 pm

http://www.redpilltimes.com/regime-chan ... g-10-days/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also on CMG from yesterday - can't find anything reporting the actual million tweets, but pretty sure it's there

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 3:34 pm

Jeremy Thorpe's died

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 3:58 pm

Okay - I need your help, people, please. I was reading the following article on the G linked below.

Collapse of oil prices leads world economy into trouble
Opec, the oil cartel, believed it could help production. Instead, it ended up hurting itself as well as the Russian rouble, energy stocks and much more
Wednesday 3 December 2014

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... f-comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unconventional fuel extraction methods were discussed below the line & I wanted a gander at some information regarding those listed. I plugged the following "Oil shale kerogen shale environmental impact safety" into a search engine that shall remain nameless & chose "scholarly articles"...one of those articles is from a website called Science Direct.

Did I read this correctly?

Innovative unconventional oil extraction technologies
Fuel Processing Technology
Volume 124, August 2014, Pages 228–242
Alexander Bolonkin
Joseph Friedlander
Shmuel Neumann
Strategic Solutions Technology Group

Abstract

New unconventional oil extraction technologies are needed because conventional technologies to extract gas and oil from oil shale or tar sands are both economically unfeasible and ecologically devastating. One technology proposed in this paper is built on long-standing proposals to explode a nuclear bomb in the heart of an oil shale deposit which in a flash causes the release of gas and oil from the oil shale. This rubble chimney will have a glassy bottom which seals the oil from sinking into the earth, thus preventing damage to the aquifer. The authors show that the equivalent of a significant atomic bomb can be achieved using conventional explosives or liquid oxygen and carbon. The computations further show that the amount of carbonous material lost in the explosion is a small price to pay for the safe in situ collection of the oil and gas. Computations show that this technology is both physically possible and economically feasible. A second approach is using the supercritical state — that exact point between liquid and gas — to extract the oil and gas from the oil shale and from the tar sands. In one configuration, the supercritical state is achieved by a sea-based configuration using the weight of water to provide sufficient pressure. A land-based alternative is a pressure well — a very deep well that similarly achieves sufficient pressure to produce the supercritical state. Supercritical carbon dioxide is frequently used in extraction using the supercritical state and the specific technology using carbon dioxide both in devices as well as in high pressure in situ. To contain the pollutants and maximize the output, a plasma tunneler heats the oil shale in situ and collects the oil and gas while the gases are contained in inflatable domes at the “worm hole” or the aperture that the earth penetration device was fed from. Other non-combustion proposals are advanced as well.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2014000344" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 4:01 pm

citizenJA wrote:Okay - I need your help, people, please. I was reading the following article on the G linked below.

Collapse of oil prices leads world economy into trouble
Opec, the oil cartel, believed it could help production. Instead, it ended up hurting itself as well as the Russian rouble, energy stocks and much more
Wednesday 3 December 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... f-comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unconventional fuel extraction methods were discussed below the line & I wanted a gander at some information regarding those listed. I plugged the following "Oil shale kerogen shale environmental impact safety" into a search engine that shall remain nameless & chose "scholarly articles"...one of those articles is from a website called Science Direct.

Did I read this correctly?

Innovative unconventional oil extraction technologies
Fuel Processing Technology
Volume 124, August 2014, Pages 228–242
Alexander Bolonkin
Joseph Friedlander
Shmuel Neumann
Strategic Solutions Technology Group

Abstract

New unconventional oil extraction technologies are needed because conventional technologies to extract gas and oil from oil shale or tar sands are both economically unfeasible and ecologically devastating. One technology proposed in this paper is built on long-standing proposals to explode a nuclear bomb in the heart of an oil shale deposit which in a flash causes the release of gas and oil from the oil shale. This rubble chimney will have a glassy bottom which seals the oil from sinking into the earth, thus preventing damage to the aquifer. The authors show that the equivalent of a significant atomic bomb can be achieved using conventional explosives or liquid oxygen and carbon. The computations further show that the amount of carbonous material lost in the explosion is a small price to pay for the safe in situ collection of the oil and gas. Computations show that this technology is both physically possible and economically feasible. A second approach is using the supercritical state — that exact point between liquid and gas — to extract the oil and gas from the oil shale and from the tar sands. In one configuration, the supercritical state is achieved by a sea-based configuration using the weight of water to provide sufficient pressure. A land-based alternative is a pressure well — a very deep well that similarly achieves sufficient pressure to produce the supercritical state. Supercritical carbon dioxide is frequently used in extraction using the supercritical state and the specific technology using carbon dioxide both in devices as well as in high pressure in situ. To contain the pollutants and maximize the output, a plasma tunneler heats the oil shale in situ and collects the oil and gas while the gases are contained in inflatable domes at the “worm hole” or the aperture that the earth penetration device was fed from. Other non-combustion proposals are advanced as well.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 2014000344" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nuclear. Bomb. Wow.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 4:02 pm

Was tempted to post Peter Cook's "Biased Judge" sketch, but decided it might be disrespectful.

So have "The Nige Before Christmas" instead

http://paulbernal.wordpress.com/2014/12 ... christmas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 4:17 pm

StephenDolan

Nuclear. Bomb. Wow.

I know all kinds of kooky crap gets thrown up on the Internet, but isn't this a peer-reviewed piece? I suppose that only means it holds up in theory? I'm not a scientist myself; I must rely upon the scientific community to watch each other & give careful consideration to their published work. I was gravely concerned prior to reading the nuclear bomb abstract above. Starting out in my research, the number of papers published recently all carefully skirted essentials & merely indicated something to the effect, "there's nothing theoretically insurmountable...". Yeah, but well casings, for example, haven't & don't get theoretically installed by insurmountably perfect engineering staff hired by GAS4U & monitored with care, either.

edited to note - I probably placed too much reliance on the search engine - I just didn't suspect this particular website was possibly a problem because of other work I've seen posted there. It's difficult understanding the difference between reputable & dodgy information.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 4:20 pm

Jon Swindon ‏@jon_swindon 6h6 hours ago
Boom! I'm finally happy to say I've had verification of over ONE MILLION TWEETS saying #CameronMustGo AMAZING!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 5:30 pm

Graham Brown-Martin ‏@GrahamBM 5h5 hours ago
So if I'm right from watching the #SSAT2014 #SSATNC14 conference the jobs of the future are…

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4AytHDCQAAbluZ.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This cartoon is so true.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 5:33 pm

Good evening everybody

Fox News up to the normal standard.....

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/f ... gy0sfm4h_e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 6:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Graham Brown-Martin ‏@GrahamBM 5h5 hours ago
So if I'm right from watching the #SSAT2014 #SSATNC14 conference the jobs of the future are…

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4AytHDCQAAbluZ.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This cartoon is so true.

I love that cartoonist! I grew up looking & reading that work.

onebuttonmonkey · Post by **onebuttonmonkey** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 6:29 pm

Evening, all. As promised (or threatened) here's tonight's BBCQT rant:

http://onebuttonmonkey.squarespace.com/ ... aster.html

Even if you are a little grumpy at me for not giving much credit to Cooper, I'd hope you can skip along to the (re-used from earlier in the year) bit on Shirley Williams. As bile goes, it's pretty acrid. And I mean every angry word of it.

In other news, Osborne's still howling at the BBC. I saw their bit on the statement on Breakfast, and it couldn't have been cosier if they'd have hugged after each reply. Apparently "hyperbole" is now just a term for "insufficiently unquestioning; lacking in gormless fawning". I think I might give myself a night off the news and BBCQT tonight - it's going to be horrible.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 6:36 pm

Courtesy of Chris Cook, one of the best tweeters of interesting links.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:00 pm

This Tweet caught my eye

Tom London ‏@TomLondon6 30s31 seconds ago
When #Osborne talks of "tough choices" they always involve the poor. That isn't tough. It is a kind of bullying

Absolutely.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:05 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:This Tweet caught my eye

Tom London ‏@TomLondon6 30s31 seconds ago
When #Osborne talks of "tough choices" they always involve the poor. That isn't tough. It is a kind of bullying

Absolutely.

I have always said that....a difficult choice is doing something that affects me, my family, my friends etc. Making decisions thta will affect someone else is not 'difficult' especially if he is borderline sociopathic.

Do you think he has ever actually had to sack someone face to face....someone who may get aggressive, who may break down in tears etc.

Twat!

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:11 pm

Good evening.

Benefits and Work has an article on ESA and PIP assessments.

It appears that untrained (ie. not decision makers) DWP staff are submitting ESA Atos reports to PIP assessment providers and vice versa.
In other words, if you have had a PIP/ESA assessment but are waiting for the other (as a million people are) the report assessing one benefit is being used to assess another.
Different benefits for different reasons with different descriptors. So you could be found capable of work (wrongly as is the case more often than not) then denied disability-specific benefit because some dipstick thinks illness and disability are the same thing. Or, you could be refused PIP (and remember the majority fail to get a DLA or PIP award st the first attempt) and then be refused ESA because of it - even if yu have a very serious life-limiting condition.

Many claimants are getting "paper" ESA assessments to clear the 700,000 backlog; they could go on to have their PIP assessed on the same basis and actually never be assessed in person - ie. the very thing the "reforms" were allegedly supposed to prevent.

Being sick in this country has become a very frightening business. Being sick and disabled is bad enough without this shit.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:11 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Courtesy of Chris Cook, one of the best tweeters of interesting links.

On Twitter yesterday they gave a breakdown on the ages of apprentices. A lot are over 50!

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:12 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Titchmarsh (daughters Polly and Camilla). Worth every penny of the licence fee.

How about a new hashtag event #yetmoreshowswiththatsmuggettitchmarshplease

Somebody pointed out that you can tell the decency and humanity of 'celebrities' by the way they react to things like the Mansion Tax; some people, like Myleene and Alan, show they have no klass, but others pass the test with flying colours - I give you exhibit A.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:16 pm

#CameronMust Go is back at number one.

Again!

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:21 pm

ephemerid wrote:Good evening.

Benefits and Work has an article on ESA and PIP assessments.

It appears that untrained (ie. not decision makers) DWP staff are submitting ESA Atos reports to PIP assessment providers and vice versa.
In other words, if you have had a PIP/ESA assessment but are waiting for the other (as a million people are) the report assessing one benefit is being used to assess another.
Different benefits for different reasons with different descriptors. So you could be found capable of work (wrongly as is the case more often than not) then denied disability-specific benefit because some dipstick thinks illness and disability are the same thing. Or, you could be refused PIP (and remember the majority fail to get a DLA or PIP award st the first attempt) and then be refused ESA because of it - even if yu have a very serious life-limiting condition.

Many claimants are getting "paper" ESA assessments to clear the 700,000 backlog; they could go on to have their PIP assessed on the same basis and actually never be assessed in person - ie. the very thing the "reforms" were allegedly supposed to prevent.

Being sick in this country has become a very frightening business. Being sick and disabled is bad enough without this shit.

You have to give them credit for finding an imaginative, leftfield solution to the problems; if only the stupid gits could use that kind of thinking to actually do some good instead of screwing people over ......

Hang on in there Ephe.

onebuttonmonkey · Post by **onebuttonmonkey** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:22 pm

ephemerid wrote:Good evening.

Benefits and Work has an article on ESA and PIP assessments.

It appears that untrained (ie. not decision makers) DWP staff are submitting ESA Atos reports to PIP assessment providers and vice versa.
In other words, if you have had a PIP/ESA assessment but are waiting for the other (as a million people are) the report assessing one benefit is being used to assess another.
Different benefits for different reasons with different descriptors. So you could be found capable of work (wrongly as is the case more often than not) then denied disability-specific benefit because some dipstick thinks illness and disability are the same thing. Or, you could be refused PIP (and remember the majority fail to get a DLA or PIP award st the first attempt) and then be refused ESA because of it - even if yu have a very serious life-limiting condition.

Many claimants are getting "paper" ESA assessments to clear the 700,000 backlog; they could go on to have their PIP assessed on the same basis and actually never be assessed in person - ie. the very thing the "reforms" were allegedly supposed to prevent.

Being sick in this country has become a very frightening business. Being sick and disabled is bad enough without this shit.

It's terrifying, isn't it? I mean, before you even get to the so many types of wrong it is, it's just genuinely terrifying. Everything we set up the Welfare State to do - to take away the fear that an illness or a disability could destroy lives through no fault of the person suffering - so rapidly dismantled.

As you know, I'm not overly given to hope but I've found the response to the autumn statement interesting. Even though it should have been obvious 4 years ago that George's plan would reduce public spending (to smaller levels than even the USA) and therefore redefine the role of the state in people's lives, it wasn't ever mentioned. But now, after yesterday, it's being picked up far more. AS defended the Wigan Pier comments very well today and noted, explicitly, what these cuts mean. It may be far too late, but the implications are finally making it out from people other than us. I'd hope this was the beginning of a long overdue tipping point.

I don't know if it is. But, if it isn't, this country is lost. And millions will have nothing but fear to look forward to.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:27 pm

onebuttonmonkey wrote:Evening, all. As promised (or threatened) here's tonight's BBCQT rant:

http://onebuttonmonkey.squarespace.com/ ... aster.html

Even if you are a little grumpy at me for not giving much credit to Cooper, I'd hope you can skip along to the (re-used from earlier in the year) bit on Shirley Williams. As bile goes, it's pretty acrid. And I mean every angry word of it.

In other news, Osborne's still howling at the BBC. I saw their bit on the statement on Breakfast, and it couldn't have been cosier if they'd have hugged after each reply. Apparently "hyperbole" is now just a term for "insufficiently unquestioning; lacking in gormless fawning". I think I might give myself a night off the news and BBCQT tonight - it's going to be horrible.

Rumour has it that Omid Djalili has agreed to try & mention the CMG hashtag tonight, which could be good for a laugh. But, like you, I shan't be watching, so may never know.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:28 pm

For anyone who fancies a trollfest

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... stand-firm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

guardian-view-government-attacks-bbc-stand-firm

Kam · Post by **Kam** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:52 pm

Not sure if this has been covered but good to see the BBC bite back.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 03867.html

As I mentioned earlier I used to work at News UK and their strategy going forward is digital trying to capture as much information as possible to target on-line advertising at subscribers however not neglecting print. To this end they have data analysts coming out their ears sifting through data. Be wary of free subscriptions that are offered where you have to register your details

The BBC's on line content represents the biggest threat to this strategy and hence the 'attacks' this I have heard first hand out of the mouths of Mike Darcey the Cheif Exec and Chris Taylor the Cheif Operating Officer.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 7:59 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Quite. There is such a thing as the law of diminishing returns. If 40% of cuts have been made, it stands to reason that they are the easiest 40%. The lowest hanging fruit. So making another 40% will be progressively harder to achieve, and as for another 60%... It will be brutal. Yet to hear some people talk, the sole purpose of the government is to keep house prices climbing.

Yes, indeed.

And lots of the low hanging fruit is actually a bad idea to pluck at all. Advertising is the classic- load of kids don't get vaccinated or whatever then there are costs in the longer term.

onebuttonmonkey · Post by **onebuttonmonkey** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 8:07 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
onebuttonmonkey wrote:
It's terrifying, isn't it? I mean, before you even get to the so many types of wrong it is, it's just genuinely terrifying. Everything we set up the Welfare State to do - to take away the fear that an illness or a disability could destroy lives through no fault of the person suffering - so rapidly dismantled.

As you know, I'm not overly given to hope but I've found the response to the autumn statement interesting. Even though it should have been obvious 4 years ago that George's plan would reduce public spending (to smaller levels than even the USA) and therefore redefine the role of the state in people's lives, it wasn't ever mentioned. But now, after yesterday, it's being picked up far more. AS defended the Wigan Pier comments very well today and noted, explicitly, what these cuts mean. It may be far too late, but the implications are finally making it out from people other than us. I'd hope this was the beginning of a long overdue tipping point.

I don't know if it is. But, if it isn't, this country is lost. And millions will have nothing but fear to look forward to.
Quite. There is such a thing as the law of diminishing returns. If 40% of cuts have been made, it stands to reason that they are the easiest 40%. The lowest hanging fruit. So making another 40% will be progressively harder to achieve, and as for another 60%... It will be brutal. Yet to hear some people talk, the sole purpose of the government is to keep house prices climbing.

Houses are supposed to be for people to live in; the market a thing to serve people's needs. And yet now it's a priori political given that the value of markets and houses is far more important than people, who should simply serve them. *enormous sigh*

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 8:10 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 04499.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Osborne's plan needs public to borrow 360 bn. That's either 6k per capita of the population or, what about the 104 UK billionaires with a combined wealth of more than £301bn.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27360032" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

onebuttonmonkey · Post by **onebuttonmonkey** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 8:15 pm

As some of you know, my other passport is from the other side of the Atlantic. As a result, I also have a fascination for the train wreck that is politics over there, not least (but not exclusively) because it's instructive of where we're going over here.

Jeb Lund's a writer the Guardian's started publishing of late and I rate him very highly (aside: except for when he said a calzone is a sandwich - it's not - it's a pie). So while some of the references to specific Fox presenters may mean nothing over here, the whole victim-blaming Foxetisation of reporting, and the polarising, narrative-based, fact-hating thrust of American politics should be worryingly, increasingly familiar over here. So anyway, here's his piece on how, in short, Fox have decided that accusing the police of racism is the real problem in the increasing numbers of apparently race-related murders by the police there. I'm posting it here in the hope you may find it as interesting - and as brilliantly poised in its anger - as I did. It's too well written not to share:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... egyn-kelly

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 8:18 pm

https://twitter.com/heaneynotseamus/sta ... 20/photo/1

I liked this one. Too thick to insert it

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 8:42 pm

When all the media are saying that government spending will fall to levels last seen in the 1930's, and the OBR specifically say that spending will fall to a level last seen in 1938, I don't need a reporter bringing up The Road to Wigan Pier to get get an image of what that means. Just hearing 'The 1930's' brings to mind:

The Great Depression
Men queuing for work at factory gates with the majority turned away
The Jarrow March

So, no, George Osborne and David Cameron, it is not hyperbole to compare what your spending plans mean with what happened then.

Their anger at the BBC seems like an own goal to me - it guarantees that this is the message that is taken away from the Autumn Statement, and not their own message. It highlights once again the incompetence of this government.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 04 Dec, 2014 8:51 pm

Tories always demand a small state but never get round to saying why it would do us any good. They should #putuporshutup