Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th July 2022

Post by **refitman** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 9:34 am

Morning all.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 1:18 pm

Afternoon !

Chris Grey --

"Whilst the candidates chunter on about how soon to cut taxes, and vie with each other to persuade the airless echo chamber of the decrepit party membership which of them is the most ‘Thatcherite’, and as Johnson sees out his last few weeks of malevolent indolence, the realities of Brexit are ignored as if they are too boring, or simply settled. The truth is that Brexit is just too big for either of the would-be leaders, or the ones who they defeated in the earlier rounds, to face up to. Too big for the Labour leadership, for that matter (on which, more is planned to come in next week’s post). We’ve become a country which is too scared of itself to talk about what it’s doing to itself."

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.co ... ality.html

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 1:44 pm

The underlying problem, as ever, is the media.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 3:35 pm

Sunak is at least talking about some things people in general might be interested in rather than just a few ultra right-wing loons from the fringes of the Tory party, like NHS waiting times. Truss so far is living up to my batty prediction with knobs on. She must be favourite, right?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 3:46 pm

Thing is, Sunak might be forced to get personal to have any chance of overhauling Truss. So get the popcorn ready, just in case.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 4:00 pm

*sigh*

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 5:21 pm

Good afternoon.

I've long thought that Frances Weetman was a bit odd but this is off the scale weird. Check out the reference to Tuskegee...

Post by **refitman** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 7:10 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote: ↑Sat 23 Jul, 2022 5:21 pm Good afternoon.

I've long thought that Frances Weetman was a bit odd but this is off the scale weird. Check out the reference to Tuskegee...

The anti-trans crowd have lost their minds this week, between this and Sharron Davies straight up calling black, cis women "men", it has all been rather disgusting.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 7:18 pm

frog222 wrote: ↑Sat 23 Jul, 2022 1:18 pm Afternoon !

Chris Grey --

Too big for the Labour leadership, for that matter (on which, more is planned to come in next week’s post).
https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.co ... ality.html

No doubt it will be as depressing as Reeves' neo-liberalism and Streeting's naivety. Wes does know that private doctors are the same people who work in the NHS, and can't be in 2 places at once?

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 23 Jul, 2022 9:55 pm

” According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, it is thought that human-to-human transmission primarily occurs through large respiratory droplets.

“Respiratory droplets generally cannot travel more than a few feet, so prolonged face-to-face contact is required,”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -monkeypox

All rather wonderful, they’re using the same supposition about transmission based on damn’all data as they did for covid ?
And they royally fucked that one up .

Anyway it shouldn’t make any difference to we here as most, I hope?, are being very careful

NN

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 11:27 am

Good morefternoon to all, anything happening?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 12:49 pm

Seems like we have a contest to see who can be shittier to migrants than the other...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 4:38 pm

You do wonder what they are going to propose a month from now, don't you.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:00 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 24 Jul, 2022 4:38 pm You do wonder what they are going to propose a month from now, don't you.

I think we've already had prison ships ? Back to the Napoleonic Wars with you

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:07 pm

The breeze is no longer refreshing, just a hot blast at 32° …
so I came back inside

Wm Keegan from a fortnight ago —

” It had been suggested to me earlier in the week that the reason why the rightwing Brexiters were now going for Johnson was that they felt their objective had been secured. When Keir Starmer shocked former Remainers, and now Rejoiners, like your correspondent, <b>by ruling out any intention of rejoining the European Union and even the single market (4/7/22 speech)</b>, then for the Conservative Brexiters Johnson had served his purpose, and could go. (O.Jones 11/21) Labour would not wreck the project. The problem was that, for them, Johnson was not purposeful enough.

To hard Brexiters, who had been yearning for years for a low-tax, low-spending, minimum-regulation economy, Johnson’s “spendthrift” approach was all wrong. ”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... to-leavers.

Some contradiction in the two dates above, in that SKS moving the OvertonWindow firmly rightwards on the Monday into rejection of FoM and the SM came as BJ was well on the way out with the two main resignations coming on the Tuesday … a bit too neat for direct Causality !

However , the November article from OJ does make the point about Labour NOT being a threat —

” So what explains this sudden shift in the way that Johnson’s premiership is being discussed, both among Tory MPs (some of whom have allegedly issued letters of no confidence) and media outlets? The answer is unremarkable: Johnson has served his purpose. Most Tories do not believe a Keir Starmer premiership is likely and will brutally dispose of Johnson if that calculation changes. Besides, thanks to Starmer’s efforts to recast his party as the establishment’s B-team, a Labour government does not present the same terror as one led by his predecessor.** ”

And now Labour is even less of a threat as they abstain on the LibDems’ amendment on free school meals, and purport to make brexit work with no major changes .

((The forecast was spot-on, still 32° )

**PS one can rephrase that to a more accurate "as one led by a more down to earth Lefty than Corbyn " ?

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:10 pm

Some bleating from the Telegraph.

Extreme Remainers take every opportunity to bash Britain

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/202 ... h-britain/

Extreme Remainers have gleefully sought to blame Brexit for the nightmarish queues at Dover over the past few days. We did not have these problems when we were in the EU, they claim. Jumping on an opportunity to paint the UK in the worst possible light, they have attempted to use the border chaos as yet another occasion to refight battles that most of the public thought were resolved years ago.

But were they to show any curiosity about the facts, they would realise how wrong they are. The UK has never been in the Schengen Area, and so has always operated a border with France for travel purposes. As the former head of Border Force, Tony Smith, writes in today’s newspaper, the UK has a bilateral arrangement with the French governing passport checks at Dover and Calais. It is facile to blame Brexit, except in relation to French pique that the UK dared to leave the EU.

I mean yeah we were outside the Schengen Area so that bit's technically correct but at most all you needed to do was flash your passport if anyone asked to see it at all, now every single one has to be inspected and stamped which obviously takes a lot longer. Unless the French could employ border staff with inhumanly rapid passport inspection abilities or some kind of device to speed up time this was always going to happen. Indeed we know Johnson's government were warned it was going to happen and rejected those warnings along with the French proposals to deal with it. It's so obvious that brexit is to blame for this that under a similar article in the Mail about 90% of the comments are blaming brexit. Are they all 'extreme remainers'?

We remainers get a lot of stick for calling brexiters thick but at least we don't hold their intellectual capacity in such low regard that we'd ask them to ignore reality as the Telegraph is doing here, we want them to do the precise opposite, we want them to see the results of their decision, face up to the consequences, not hide from it all and make feeble excuses as the brexit press continues to do. Articles like the one above are written by thin-skinned cowards spitting parochial lies from behind a grubby flag and I won't be taking any lessons from them in either curiosity about facts or patriotism.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:24 pm

frog222 wrote: ↑Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:07 pm The breeze is no longer refreshing, just a hot blast at 32°

Monsoon conditions here. I wish it would stop for a bit, I need milk.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:37 pm

Well, this could prove interesting...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:39 pm

I think effectively interfering in an internal party election like that would be a big move that would require a pretty high burden of proof.

And we all know how rarely these enquiries come to such definitive conclusions anyway.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:49 pm

Reading the Tory press, especially the Spectator, it's not Starmer's Labour they fear, it's a 'progressive alliance' winning the next GE and changing the voting system. They're shitting bricks about it with all sorts of apocalyptic warnings about the Conservatives being out of power for decades and brexit being undone.

We can but dream.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 6:01 pm

So Simon Case the limpet is still there

” The Forde report proves that Labour’s sickness is down to its right wing

The fact that people within his own party were terrified of Corbyn begs the question: which part of supporting the working class did they disagree with? ”

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fo ... 30074.html

” The report also confirms that claims of antisemitism against Corbyn were weaponised by his internal enemies in order to create an air of moral panic around the prospect of his leadership; a fact that few will find surprising considering that the right immediately stopped pretending to care about Jewish people five minutes after Corbyn was out the door.”

Correction, the Right then went on to persecute the ‘wrong sort of Jews’ .

.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/the-forde-report-some-initial-thoughts/

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... -thoughts/

Post by **refitman** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 6:02 pm

frog222 wrote: ↑Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:00 pm
AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 24 Jul, 2022 4:38 pm You do wonder what they are going to propose a month from now, don't you.
I think we've already had prison ships ? Back to the Napoleonic Wars with you

Yep, prison ships are Sunak's idea

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 6:55 pm

This is quite amusing considering which newspaper Birbalsingh is talking about here.

But she is publicity hungry and simply won't turn down the opportunity to appear once again in the media. Anyone know the names of any of the other 24,000 HTs in England?

BTW Braverman was being touted as Edu Secretary...remember which school she was CoG at when it was set up? Wouldn't bet against it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 7:52 pm

One bit had me checking our own school data...

While the school is officially non-selective, it is, in a sense, selective by temperament. There are many parents and children who will walk in and say: ‘No thanks.’ Notably, only 0.5 per cent of Michaela’s pupils have a special educational needs plan, compared to 1.7 per cent on average in England as a whole. You’re on the bus – or you’re not.

Ours is 3%.

We know there are schools who push the line that "Actually, we don't think they would be right for this school" or "We wouldn't be able to accommodate their particular needs" but to be so far away from the average is illuminating. Not very inclusive...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 9:46 pm

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 9:56 pm

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 10:19 pm

I see that Truss is doing a Bonfire of the Quangos.

How many times have they done this now?

Wonder what will happen when they discover that the worst case of this was installed by their own Party when reorganising the NHS? Blame Labour probably...

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 10:26 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Sun 24 Jul, 2022 5:49 pm Reading the Tory press, especially the Spectator, it's not Starmer's Labour they fear, it's a 'progressive alliance' winning the next GE and changing the voting system. They're shitting bricks about it with all sorts of apocalyptic warnings about the Conservatives being out of power for decades and brexit being undone.

We can but dream.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 10:39 pm

Hmmm...hear me out here Kate. If a human rights lawyer succeeds in stopping someone being deported then surely that must mean a judge has agreed that deporting that person would be illegal. If you're suggesting we should be able boot people out of the country illegally without sanction (which appears to be the case) how about we meet up at the nearest cliff so I can give you a nice cake. I definitely won't throw you in the sea then get my crab army to drag you all the way to Labrador where you'll have to survive by fighting polar bears for scraps of seal meat. Which, to be fair, I think you'd be rather good at.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 10:42 pm

Well we do have 1997 as a precedent, I suppose. We now know (and it was suspected, if not confirmed, at the time) that Blair actually wanted a quasi-coalition with the LibDems and to introduce electoral reform - but the scale of Labour's win made both of those unfeasible.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 11:34 pm

@Gilsey

There was an article in the Spectator recently saying precisely that, Polly Toynbee referenced it, which pointed out that under the STV system used in Scotland the Tories woud only have been able to form a majority government twice in the last 50 years. There have been similar rumblings at the Telegraph. They're quite rightly terrified of the prospect of voting reform because as I've mentioned a number of times now, even under the 'miserable compromise' Clegg offered us of AV Corbyn would have been Prime Minister in 2017.

@ AK

How do we know that? Electoral reform was in Labour's 1997 manifesto and they completely reneged on it while Blair pranced around like he was our god king.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 11:36 pm

Yes, he "reneged" on it because they got a majority of 180 - its not hard.

Blair might still have wanted to go ahead actually, but too much of the party decided all of a sudden that FPTP "worked" and didn't need to be changed.

Funny, that.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 24 Jul, 2022 11:49 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote: ↑Sun 24 Jul, 2022 10:19 pm Wonder what will happen when they discover that the worst case of this was installed by their own Party when reorganising the NHS? Blame Labour probably...

They could always blame Clegg. He admitted signing Lansley's health and social care act without bothering to read it.

His defence was that ministers don't actually read all that difficult stuff they're presented with, relying on smarter underlings and civil servants to break it down into a simplified form for the minister to understand more easily. Say for example a cartoon drawing of a large yellow bird having its throat cut.

Not that it's done him any harm, he's doing well for himself, apart from the fact everyone thinks he's a dick.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 12:06 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 24 Jul, 2022 11:36 pm Yes, he "reneged" on it because they got a majority of 180 - its not hard.

Blair might still have wanted to go ahead actually, but too much of the party decided all of a sudden that FPTP "worked" and didn't need to be changed.

Funny, that.

You're giving me a lot of supposition and zero evidence here AK. The only time Blair showed any interest in collaborative coalition politics was when he needed Tory votes to invade Iraq (he said he'd resign if he lost the vote) before prancing about on the world stage with a moron who legalised torture.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 12:37 am

Blair was on record as welcoming the Jenkins report proposing electoral reform, he went about as far as he could without explicitly endorsing it.

Basically, his party (starting with his very traditionalist pro-FPTP deputy) forced him to drop it.

And that he originally wanted some sort of link up with the LibDems is confirmed by Paddy Ashdown's diaries amongst other things.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:19 am

I would suspect Labour's biggest fear of a proportional voting system is that the party would break apart. Which from an outsiders perspective seems like it would be healthy given how much they all seem to hate one another.

When I was a Lib-Dem we just got drunk all the time. Really, I worked for a bloke called Greg Mullholland who spent most of his time as an MP making the case for the real ale industry, you'd go back to his house after posting a million leaflets and there were crates of free beer in his front room. In hindsight that seems a tad suspicious but at the time it was wonderful. Except when his wife came downstairs and complained about the noise. Which as you can imagine was pretty loud once me and Jane with the funny eye had got into the strong stuff.

(One eye is noticeably higher and looking in another direction, as a result of childhood bone cancer, Jane and I are still friends until she reads this).

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:22 am

Fascinating on ER .

Woken by leg cramps, too much healthy exercise ?

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:25 am

Jenkins says Blair will never accept PR

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2000/sep/01/uk.pr

The man responsible for devising a voting system for 21st century Britain has admitted for the first time that Tony Blair will never concede to Liberal Democrat demands for proportional representation in general elections.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:36 am

Yeah, that was after Blair had dropped it (willingly or otherwise) - the article was written two years after the report was published.

If you want some amusement value btw, look at who wrote that piece.

(and no, her politics weren't particularly out of step with the Graun back then - she's yet another one who did the Great Moving Right Show)

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:51 am

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:19 am I would suspect Labour's biggest fear of a proportional voting system is that the party would break apart. Which from an outsiders perspective seems like it would be healthy given how much they all seem to hate one another.

I haven't seen hate from the Left, but very definitely from the Right , see the language and actions in the Leaked Report and the Forde verdict .

Still no worries as Starmer continues his purge , there won't be a Left left for anyone to accuse of fomenting civil war !

Kit came in again, forgot to block his catflap ...

that's his second extra feast, now blocked !

Bifn.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:58 am

Ha ha I hadn't noticed. But the fact remains the person they brought in to work as a go between on constitutional reform between themselves and the Liberal Democrats said Blair and the Labour party as a whole were against reforming our electoral system.

You say Blair may have been in favour of electoral reform if we believe certain rumours, I say judge the fucker by his actions.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 25 Jul, 2022 2:12 am

frog222 wrote: ↑Mon 25 Jul, 2022 1:51 am I haven't seen hate from the Left.

That's because you appear to live on some idyllic French farm, not like us, we're trapped in this shithole.