Saturday 1st & Sunday 2nd October 2022

Post by **refitman** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 8:26 am

Morning all.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 8:35 am

Morning refit

“ An article in the respected US magazine Foreign Policy says Truss is making Britain look like Argentina. It cautions that the ideologically driven prime minister could be tempted into a trade battle with the EU over the Northern Ireland protocol. But it warns that such a ploy would end badly.

“Truss, who is a diehard Thatcher fan, might even imagine it could be her Falklands war moment – standing up to an ancestral enemy in the name of the motherland. It could be, but her role would be that of reckless Argentina, not victorious Britain.”

Similarly, the Irish Times columnist Stephen Collins says: “The danger facing the UK now is that it could in time become the Argentina of Europe. It should not be forgotten that Argentina was once among the richest countries in the world but generations of bad political decision-making has brought it to its current sorry state.”

Collins adds: “The emergence of Liz Truss as prime minister and Kwasi Kwarteng as the chancellor of the exchequer committed to a low tax, low regulation economy is the logical conclusion of Brexit, but it is the decision to fund public services at their current level through massive borrowing that has really spooked the financial markets.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ss-sees-uk

I remember a story from was it 20 or so years ago, teachers and other comfortably retired people suddenly had ... no pension .
Reduced to scavenging .

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 10:13 am

This morning's Times -

apparently Redwood didn't get the alert that pension funds (and their counterparties?) were heading for deepshit in a matter of hours

Even Redwood has concerns. On a Tory WhatsApp group this week he criticised the Bank of England for its £65 billion emergency intervention. “Bank wrong to do more QE as that started inflation in the first place,” he said. Over the coming weeks Truss has made clear she intends to pursue a tough package of government spending cuts alongside potentially unpopular “supply- side” reforms such as abolishing the 48-hour working week, liberalising planning laws and reducing environmental protection. Downing Street is said to be “infuriating” government departments by deluging them with demands to model different types of policy — and then changing their mind and asking for something different.

Conclusion -

One MP who turned down a job in Truss’s government tried to put perspective on how bad things were.
“My dog had his balls chopped off yesterday so it’s a reminder that things can always get worse,” he said.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/now- ... -39brrq3gd

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 10:28 am

Simon Clarke has a majority of 11,626. A disgrace at the time, what were they thinking.
Nowhere near enough, now.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 10:56 am

OUF !

Almost missed it, but just in time for Conference

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 11:24 am

I mean, is "levelling up" still a thing even in a rhetorical sense now?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 11:40 am

Good morning.

So basically they lied.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 12:00 pm

Yes, the "no mandate" thing is basically unanswerable isn't it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 12:51 pm

Always someone else's fault...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 2:03 pm

The real significance here may be that Nixon is a leader writer for The Times.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 2:09 pm

The best thing about this letter is the author. Definitely a woke lefty.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 2:11 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sat 01 Oct, 2022 2:03 pm The real significance here may be that Nixon is a leader writer for The Times.

That sound you can hear is creaking old bones as Rupe changes horses.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 3:12 pm

gilsey wrote: ↑Sat 01 Oct, 2022 2:09 pm The best thing about this letter is the author. Definitely a woke lefty.

Heh, remember his mum paying a visit to my primary school. A few of us from Labour families (it was mostly Tory genepool territory) booed her.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 3:37 pm

gilsey wrote: ↑Sat 01 Oct, 2022 2:11 pm That sound you can hear is creaking old bones as Rupe changes horses.

He's just found another reliable pair of hands, surely ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 6:23 pm

Oh dear...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 6:46 pm

Outsourcing Government pt 2

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 7:04 pm

You thought it couldn't get worse? Well.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 8:18 pm

Truss was told: don’t do this. Her attitude was: I don’t care

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2f54 ... b3ff4bd2df

Truss seems to have fed off the prospect of negative fallout, using it as evidence that the establishment would always fight real economic radicalism. “She was told, ‘Don’t do this, no one will like it.’ And her attitude was basically, ‘I don’t care’.” Downing Street sources do not confirm this form of words but agree Truss’s attitude was that the economy would have to weather an initial period of turbulence

Upon learning what was intended, a very senior civil servant declared privately: “She is completely mad.” A senior figure at the Treasury called the decision to scrap the top rate of tax in a cost-of-living crisis “f***ing insane,” the day before the budget. Another said the unfunded tax cuts were “what Venezuela does”.

..........

After delivering the budget, Kwasi Kwarteng attended a drinks party with leading city financiers, arranged by the Conservative Party treasurer’s department, in which he declared: “This is a great day for freedom.”

on Sunday, the chancellor went even further, boasting that there were more tax cuts “to come”. If this was controversial, his attendance at a drinks event shortly before his gung-ho broadcast outing is more so. Senior Tories say that when the chancellor attended the donor drinks do on budget day, he spoke to several hedge fund managers who were shorting the pound. Many sources at the event say the financiers “egged him on” and told Kwarteng he should “double down” despite the collapse of the pound to $1.08 that day.

When the markets opened on Monday morning, the pound plunged further to $1.037, a move that would have made those financiers millions. At least two hedge fund bosses privately described the chancellor as “a useful idiot” in conversations with city associates.

...........

It was Philp who, during the leadership election, wrote a paper for Truss recommending the abolition of the 45p tax rate. “Now he’s got to find the money,” said a former No 10 aide. “We are now doing George Osborne-style austerity to pay for a tax cut for the super-rich.” Chris Curtis of pollsters Opinium agreed: “Cutting public services to give more money to rich people is about as politically toxic as it is possible to get.”

This has enraged Tory MPs, who think Truss and Kwarteng have already handed the next election to Sir Keir Starmer. Labour’s conference was by common consent the most upbeat since Tony Blair’s valedictory speech in 2006. Business was out in force while the hard left stayed away. “The twats in T-shirts have disappeared,” a member of the shadow cabinet observed.

...........

At least 20 MPs have put in letters of no confidence in Truss, according to one source who is keeping track of the numbers. Since the Tories have lost several by-elections the figure needed to trigger a vote is now 54.

Former ministers are openly discussing what would happen if Truss was ousted. “There would have to be a leader by acclamation,” one said. “And it would have to be Boris or Rishi. She’s finished already.” Sunak, the former chancellor, might feel vindicated in his warnings about the dangers of Trussonomics.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 9:14 pm

'Liked'

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 10:15 pm

Given what the new PM has told the new monarch, are they going to flirt with climate change denial as well?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 01 Oct, 2022 10:59 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sat 01 Oct, 2022 10:15 pm Given what the new PM has told the new monarch, are they going to flirt with climate change denial as well?

I wonder which side leaked that?

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 5:47 am

As Keir Starmer storms ahead, where does he really stand?
Harry Yorke , Deputy Political Editor Sunday October 02 2022,

As the Labour faithful braved the elements to gather at their annual conference in Liverpool, Sir Keir Starmer finally found confidence to set out his vision for what he would do in power.

He has promised a state-owned Great British Energy company, akin to France’s EDF; an £8 billion national wealth fund **which will see the state investing and retaining shares in green and renewable assets; and a commitment to “zero-carbon” power by 2030. But although large gaps remain in the Labour prospectus some clues have emerged.

Labour wants the biggest expansion of the NHS workforce in its history.

The party intends to double the number of district nurses qualifying every year, train more than 5,000 new health visitors, and create an additional 10,000 nursing and midwifery placements every year. The number of medical school places would also be doubled from 7,500 to 15,000.

These plans would take years to plug the shortfalls in the NHS ranks. It is why Wes Streeting, the shadow health secretary, is also looking at alternative, non-degree routes into nursing, which would help to reduce some of the financial barriers putting off applicants.

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Streeting has made clear that the private sector will be used to help drive down NHS backlogs. He believes that targets need to be reviewed although key indicators, such as the four-hour wait in A&E and two-week limit for cancer referrals, will remain.

He thinks that ambulance queues outside A&E departments stem partly from the fact that hospitals do not become responsible for patients until they leave the ambulance.

While the digitisation of the health service has prompted debate over data privacy, Streeting believes that the public will consent to handing over ever greater quantities if they are assured that their data will not be misused and their health outcomes will improve as a result.

While the party rejects suggestions that education is a second-order priority (it plans a more rounded school curriculum), Bridget Phillipson, the shadow education secretary, is preoccupied with childcare and has announced plans for breakfast clubs for every primary school. Expect Labour to offer more free childcare for all preschoolers and increased nursery funding.

he package is expected to cost several billion pounds — which is why Phillipson is planning to make it the manifesto’s education centrepiece. Tuition fees for university students may stay but the interest rate could be reviewed.

Universal credit survives
Benefits could be uprated in line with inflation

Labour has rowed back from abolishing universal credit — a tacit admission that, while far from perfect, the system set up by Sir Iain Duncan Smith has largely worked. Jonathan Ashworth, the shadow work and pensions secretary, now refers to the need for “reform”. This includes a rise for work allowances, the amount that in-work claimants are allowed to earn before their benefits are reduced.

Labour also appears set to undo the two-child limit introduced by the Conservatives. The party has also signalled it could uprate benefits in line with inflation. The pensions triple-lock, a manifesto commitment of both main parties, will also remain unchanged.

Keep the status quo at the BBC
Labour would extend the BBC’s current charter until 2029

While the Tories have signalled they intend to press ahead with plans to scrap the TV licence fee, Lucy Powell, the shadow culture secretary, believes there are no other viable funding mechanisms.

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Powell considers decriminalisation of non-payment of the fee to be a “slippery slope”. With a review of the corporation’s charter likely to be completed before the next election, Labour will likely scrap any agreement reached with the government and extend the current charter until 2029. In a similar vein, it would cancel the sale of Channel 4. Powell also believes in prioritising industrial 5G — high-capacity networks helping to transform the way factories and manufacturers operate.

The Lords will stay . . . for now
Hereditary peers in the House of Lords would be removed

The commitment featured in the last Labour manifesto and has made headlines again in recent days, after it emerged that the former prime minister Gordon Brown had recommended the move in a leaked constitutional review paper. However, a number of shadow cabinet ministers believe it should be a “second term issue”. The expectation is that Starmer will try to reduce the size of the Lords by roughly 300 peers.

This would be achieved partly by removing the 92 hereditary peers who retain a seat in the House of Lords. Other measures may include introducing a retirement age or threshold for parliamentary activity.

Tax policy remains opaque
Starmer has called for a bigger windfall tax on energy companies

This is likely to depend on how much you earn. Starmer and Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor, have spent the past year attempting to sever the historical association between Labour and higher levels of individual taxation.

It is why, in response to the mini-budget, they announced that in government they would reimpose the 45p additional rate of income tax on the highest earners, while maintaining the 1p cut to the basic rate. This is consistent with Labour’s earlier opposition to the hiking of national insurance.

And it tallies, too, with Starmer’s call for a bigger windfall tax on energy companies and his opposition to cancelling the formerly scheduled rise in corporation tax.

However, not everyone in the party appears to agree. Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, has suggested that the 1p cut to the basic rate is badly targeted and the savings from reinstating it would be better funnelled towards pay rises for public sector workers. Trade union leaders share this view.

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During a series of discussions last week, a number of shadow cabinet ministers struggled to explain the rationale behind backing the 1p cut over more targeted measures, such as lifting personal allowances. There is also a lack of clarity as to whether this position is temporary, or one Labour intends to take into the next election.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

** UK — £8bn national wealth fund

NORWAY — The Sovereign Wealth fund of Norway – PGM Capital

It has over US$1 trillion in assets, including 1.3% of global stocks and shares, making it the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund. In May 2018 it was worth about US$195,000 per Norwegian citizen. It holds portfolios of real estate and fixed-income investments.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 10:42 am

But ..... I thought he had a German passport ?

Delightful news !

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 10:56 am

Labour has rowed back from abolishing universal credit

Shame. Just putting the housing element back with councils would have been a great improvement and could easily be defined as abolition.

People losing their housing benefit when something goes wrong with another part of their claim is one of its worst aspects.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 10:58 am

Gove.

As many have commented, if Gove's looking impressive you know you're in deep shit.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 11:10 am

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 11:11 am

Truss apparently countered the "no mandate" line with "our voters wanted economic growth".

So does everybody, save for a small minority of "deep" greens.

Meaningless, disingenuous platitude.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 11:36 am

gilsey wrote: ↑Sun 02 Oct, 2022 10:56 am
Labour has rowed back from abolishing universal credit
Shame. Just putting the housing element back with councils would have been a great improvement and could easily be defined as abolition.

People losing their housing benefit when something goes wrong with another part of their claim is one of its worst aspects.

It's the Centrist world-view - all systems currently in place *work*, it's just the Tories aren't doing it right. At NO point should we consider if there is a better way to do anything, we just need to tinker with the current systems.

It is tiresome, just how pathetic and beholden to the markets they are,

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 11:43 am

Remember when Labour "sources" - in the 24 hours after the not-Budget - wouldn't definitely commit to reversing the top rate cut, to predictable cries of outrage from the usual suspects? But then, of course, they did. Expect quite a bit more of this.

(for instance, Reeves says this morning she would extend the "freeze" on energy bills to two years - compared to the original Labour plan of six months)

Circumstances are very likely going to compel an incoming Labour (led) government to do some pretty radical stuff.

You can help that along, or you can relitigate the past and moan about "betrayal" instead.

I think I know which approach is likely to be more productive.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 12:54 pm

Well, pardon me if I'm extremely fucking sceptical of Starmer et al offering anything even approaching 'radical', considering he tried that to get elected, then rowed back on ALL his pledges, THEN said he would happily break any other promises he makes.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 1:40 pm

gilsey wrote: ↑Sun 02 Oct, 2022 10:56 am Shame. Just putting the housing element back with councils would have been a great improvement and could easily be defined as abolition.

People losing their housing benefit when something goes wrong with another part of their claim is one of its worst aspects.

Agreed. Then there's the small matter of the half a million disabled people who the DWP admit will be considerably worse off when they're moved from ESA to UC and lose their disability premiums. The DWP have put transitional payments in place but these are designed to erode over time leaving disabled people hundreds of pounds a month worse off than they were. It's absolutely scandalous and you would hope Labour would do something about it but I have my doubts.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 3:31 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 02 Oct, 2022 12:54 pm Well, pardon me if I'm extremely fucking sceptical of Starmer et al offering anything even approaching 'radical', considering he tried that to get elected, then rowed back on ALL his pledges, THEN said he would happily break any other promises he makes.

And such scepticism is quite understandable.

My underlying belief, however, is that leadership is often an overrated factor in politics - and people all over the spectrum do this.

(indeed we are seeing this right now - Truss thinks she can do what she wants to by sheer force of will)

Post by **refitman** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 3:35 pm

Post by **refitman** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 3:42 pm

If anyone ever thought the 'gender critical' loons ever had a sensible point, just have a look at one of their shining lights losing her mind over a cartoon alien

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 3:57 pm

Looking forward to Peter Hitchens' detailed take on the Labour Files

(not holding my breath, but who knows .... ! )

In fact it is just a small part of his last blog, that's all there is, and took some time tracking it down --

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... on-do.html

-------------------------------------------

Starmerite Labour is built on the Foundation Myth that there was a very real AS problem , of which they NEVER cease to re-remind us !

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 4:15 pm

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 6:32 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Jacob experiences sexual arousal during such incidents.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 7:56 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Sun 02 Oct, 2022 6:32 pm I wouldn't be surprised if Jacob experiences sexual arousal during such incidents.

Truss isn't the only one getting off on humiliation?

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 8:26 pm

Tell us more

Probably best not to without the agreement of the whatsap group.
Liz was an Account Manager (sales person) and I was for my sins her Technical Sales Support in C&W in the early 2000s

I was asking as I can not believe she held any position of importance prior to politics….

It was not a position of importance in any way.

WHOOPS !

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 8:39 pm

" When Sherwood demanded an explanation as to why her mother, Gurdev, a fit 75-year-old, would not be considered for admission to ITU, a consultant handed her a document produced by the Intensive Care Society containing a “decision-making” instrument setting out various scenarios in which frail and elderly people might be “less likely to benefit” from intensive care. When she queried the document, Sherwood claims she was told: “If you have an issue, take it up with the government.”

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 8:48 pm

Post by **refitman** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 8:59 pm

Times 'journalist' in lying shocker

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 9:32 pm

""" This is my first Conservative conference since becoming a journalist having only ever been to Labour. The violence of the protestors outside is like nothing I’ve seen before in politics.

Seeing MPs pushed to the ground and screamed at while trying to do their jobs is horrible. """

Tsk tsk

Naughty little journo !

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 9:48 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 02 Oct, 2022 8:59 pm Times 'journalist' in lying shocker

The moustache led me to suspect it was a Magnum PI parody account.

Tragically only the parody bit was right.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 9:50 pm

Good Lord, Fabricant saying something sensible.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 10:24 pm

gilsey wrote: ↑Sun 02 Oct, 2022 9:50 pm Good Lord, Fabricant saying something sensible.

Which is very suspicious. I suspect the wig has finally had enough and taken control.

I saw an old Tales of the Unexpected where that happened.

Joan Collins got possessed by an evil merkin.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 11:11 pm

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 02 Oct, 2022 11:33 pm

I must say I do love this new reality where Michael Gove is the voice of reason and a band of rebel Tories are all that stands between people like me and destitution.

To be fair I did want Truss to replace Johnson so I suppose I'm culpable in my own way but I never expected her to be this mad.

Not that I suppose it matters. I don't think any of us have heard reports from a Tory conference where most of the talk (even on the right) is about MPs either voting down parts of a budget or getting rid of their new Prime Minister.

Anyway lets hope for good news from Brazil for all our sakes.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 03 Oct, 2022 12:34 am

Qualified good news - Lula looks set to be 5-6% ahead of Bolsonaro when all votes are in. Its going to a runoff though.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 03 Oct, 2022 12:44 am

It's way closer than anyone thought it would be. The closest since the military dictatorship. How utterly fucking depressing.