Thursday 11th December 2014

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HindleA
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Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by HindleA »

Morning


Response to FOI request ESA sanctions Jan-March 2014 for those interested

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... o-mar-2014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
StephenDolan
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Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by StephenDolan »

Morning all.

Ed today :-

'they have finally been exposed by the Autumn Statement for what they really are: not modern compassionate Conservatives at all – but extreme and ideological, committed to a dramatic shrinking of the state and public services, no matter what the consequences.

“They are doing it, not because they have to do it, but because they want to. That is not our programme, that will never be our programme, and I do not believe it is the programme the British people want.'

Let's hope there's traction of this speech.
Spacedone
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by Spacedone »

Call me cynical but after Theresa May's speech I can't help but think that David Cameron and her new interest in getting GCHQ to combat paedophiles has more to do with trying to get us to accept having all our electronic communications monitored 24/7 than anything else. They couldn't scare us into supporting the loss of our right to privacy by using terrorists as a reason so now it is paedos.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... hild-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
giselle97
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by giselle97 »

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Ed today :-

'they have finally been exposed by the Autumn Statement for what they really are: not modern compassionate Conservatives at all – but extreme and ideological, committed to a dramatic shrinking of the state and public services, no matter what the consequences.

“They are doing it, not because they have to do it, but because they want to. That is not our programme, that will never be our programme, and I do not believe it is the programme the British people want.'

Let's hope there's traction of this speech.
That "woman" on BBC News just can't disguise her bias and they've already had some fat piece of lard on to repeat the Tory script. Why do I watch?

Morning :D
:fire: :fire: :fire:
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refitman
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by refitman »

Morning. Conservatives and Labour tied on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 10th December -

Con 33%, (+1)
Lab 33%, (+1)
LD 6%, (nc)
UKIP 15%; (nc)
Grn 7%; (nc)

APP -24 (+1)
HindleA
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by HindleA »

"Back to Work Schemes making mental illness worse says Charity"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30415243" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


(the vast majority of sanctions in ESA are so "tailored".Musing I'm getting pissed off,as I was equally under Labour about the "left" drivel many volunteer,or did and worked when able,yes proper support,sanctions should play no part.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Spacedone wrote:Call me cynical but after Theresa May's speech I can't help but think that David Cameron and her new interest in getting GCHQ to combat paedophiles has more to do with trying to get us to accept having all our electronic communications monitored 24/7 than anything else. They couldn't scare us into supporting the loss of our right to privacy by using terrorists as a reason so now it is paedos.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... hild-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, afraid so, this is cover for yet more warrantless searches and data trawling targeting everybody but hiding inside the Trojan horse of child abuse prevention. Kind of the modern day civil liberties invisibility cloak.

The problem I have with this is that when the police start working hand in hand with the secret service they become the secret police.

If only GCHQ could be trusted to bin all data they collect that isn't directly linked to child abuse. However you just know it will be used to snoop on lawyers, journalists, protestors and civil rights activists.
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Lonewolfie
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by Lonewolfie »

giselle97 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Ed today :-

'they have finally been exposed by the Autumn Statement for what they really are: not modern compassionate Conservatives at all – but extreme and ideological, committed to a dramatic shrinking of the state and public services, no matter what the consequences.

“They are doing it, not because they have to do it, but because they want to. That is not our programme, that will never be our programme, and I do not believe it is the programme the British people want.'

Let's hope there's traction of this speech.
That "woman" on BBC News just can't disguise her bias and they've already had some fat piece of lard on to repeat the Tory script. Why do I watch?

Morning :D
:fire: :fire: :fire:
Morning all...in that vein, I heard a piece on R5 (or possibly R4) news where they definitely gave the impression that Labour/Ed Balls were fetishising the deficit - "Ed Balls has sent a letter to all Labour MPs stating that any new Labour government will continue with 'austerity and cuts' EVERY SINGLE YEAR UNTIL THE BOOKS ARE BALANCED" (not verbatim, natch and apologies for shouting the last bit, but wanted to highlight the intonation in the report)

Glad to see that things are not quite as reported ( :o :o )...and that, yet again, to get real news you have to come in here :)
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StephenDolan
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by StephenDolan »

Lonewolfie wrote:
giselle97 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Ed today :-

'they have finally been exposed by the Autumn Statement for what they really are: not modern compassionate Conservatives at all – but extreme and ideological, committed to a dramatic shrinking of the state and public services, no matter what the consequences.

“They are doing it, not because they have to do it, but because they want to. That is not our programme, that will never be our programme, and I do not believe it is the programme the British people want.'

Let's hope there's traction of this speech.
That "woman" on BBC News just can't disguise her bias and they've already had some fat piece of lard on to repeat the Tory script. Why do I watch?

Morning :D
:fire: :fire: :fire:
Morning all...in that vein, I heard a piece on R5 (or possibly R4) news where they definitely gave the impression that Labour/Ed Balls were fetishising the deficit - "Ed Balls has sent a letter to all Labour MPs stating that any new Labour government will continue with 'austerity and cuts' EVERY SINGLE YEAR UNTIL THE BOOKS ARE BALANCED" (not verbatim, natch and apologies for shouting the last bit, but wanted to highlight the intonation in the report)

Glad to see that things are not quite as reported ( :o :o )...and that, yet again, to get real news you have to come in here :)
Unfortunately BBC is how most of the public get their news. Roll on the debates. Prime ministerial Cameron v weak and wierd Miliband.
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Willow904
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by Willow904 »

HindleA wrote:"Back to Work Schemes making mental illness worse says Charity"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30415243" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


(the vast majority of sanctions in ESA are so "tailored".Musing I'm getting pissed off,as I was equally under Labour about the "left" drivel many volunteer,or did and worked when able,yes proper support,sanctions should play no part.
A while back there was a theme that claims for disability and sickness benefits were growing at an unsustainable rate and therefore cuts were essential. I wanted to know why these claims were growing and when I looked into it discovered that during the New Labour years there had been a concerted effort among charities to help people with mental health issues to claim what they were entitled to. This was successful, leading to a lot of people with longstanding health issues claiming for the first time. This explained the increase in claims but also suggested that the increase in the rate of claims would only be temporary as once all those previously overlooked people were in the system, the increase in claims would settle down to mirror the rate of diagnosis.

As such, the idea that cuts were necessary on the 'exponential growth' grounds appears discredited. Of course this government isn't interested in facts, only excuses to impose their small state ideology, but that doesn't mean they don't understand the facts. It seems possible that the fact that many people with mental health issues only realised they were entitled to sickness benefit relatively recently may have made them a target for the DWP as an 'easy cut'. I suspect the object was to return things to an earlier state of affairs whereby people with mental health problems are theoretically entitled to ESA but rarely claim. This is the most cowardly and deceptive option. If Cameron really wanted to make 'difficult decisions' he would say certain groups will no longer qualify for ESA and see whether the public agree at the ballot box. Obviously this would involve Cameron opening his mouth and uttering something which is true which, on past evidence, appears an impossibility.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

StephenDolan wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:
giselle97 wrote: That "woman" on BBC News just can't disguise her bias and they've already had some fat piece of lard on to repeat the Tory script. Why do I watch?

Morning :D
:fire: :fire: :fire:
Morning all...in that vein, I heard a piece on R5 (or possibly R4) news where they definitely gave the impression that Labour/Ed Balls were fetishising the deficit - "Ed Balls has sent a letter to all Labour MPs stating that any new Labour government will continue with 'austerity and cuts' EVERY SINGLE YEAR UNTIL THE BOOKS ARE BALANCED" (not verbatim, natch and apologies for shouting the last bit, but wanted to highlight the intonation in the report)

Glad to see that things are not quite as reported ( :o :o )...and that, yet again, to get real news you have to come in here :)
Unfortunately BBC is how most of the public get their news. Roll on the debates. Prime ministerial Cameron v weak and wierd Miliband.
What is pernicious about the Beeb is that so many still believe it is reasonably unbiased and objective.

And there was a time when it was (or more so than now, anyway)

It doesn't help that so many of its news presenters now are ghastly lightweights :roll:
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
yahyah
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by yahyah »

What seems to happen is the interviewer has a set of [or just one] 'gotcha' questions that they want to pursue.
Any nuance around the topic is cut off sharply so they can have the headline quote, one they can drag out later so they can attack said politician with it.

Montague is getting to be unlistenable. Switch off now rather than hear her snorting and huffing.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Huw Irranca-Davies retweeted
Labour Environment ‏@LabourDefra 6m6 minutes ago
.@grahamemorris asks about the Government's plans to cull badger cubs. @IrrancaDaviesMP says plans are desperate - http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1048465 ... r-cubs-are" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Huw Irranca-Davies ‏@IrrancaDaviesMP 59s60 seconds ago
Liz Truss does not rule out moving goalposts again, by culling of badger cubs early in season, in answer to probing q from @grahamemorris
Badger cubs to be shot in latest cull plan
Badger cull will be moved to summer when cubs are numerous and easily shot, after autumn culls missed minumum kill targets

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -cull-plan
Those cubs will be born later on this month or in January or February. They start to emerge from the setts in May. A totally barbaric plan from this government.

When something clearly doesn't work and is poor policy - this government does it again with bells on - it's their pattern. This is on a par with changing the law retrospectively to make sure they don't have to pay out for their illegal mandatory work progamme - just far more bloody.
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yahyah
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by yahyah »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Huw Irranca-Davies retweeted
Labour Environment ‏@LabourDefra 6m6 minutes ago
.@grahamemorris asks about the Government's plans to cull badger cubs. @IrrancaDaviesMP says plans are desperate - http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1048465 ... r-cubs-are" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Huw Irranca-Davies ‏@IrrancaDaviesMP 59s60 seconds ago
Liz Truss does not rule out moving goalposts again, by culling of badger cubs early in season, in answer to probing q from @grahamemorris
Badger cubs to be shot in latest cull plan
Badger cull will be moved to summer when cubs are numerous and easily shot, after autumn culls missed minumum kill targets

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -cull-plan
Those cubs will be born later on this month or in January or February. They start to emerge from the setts in May. A totally barbaric plan from this government.

When something clearly doesn't work and is poor policy - this government does it again with bells on - it's their pattern. This is on a par with changing the law retrospectively to make sure they don't have to pay out for their illegal mandatory work progamme - just far more bloody.
[/quote]


Am having to switch off from this it is just so horrible.
But please keep posting, it needs exposing.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

yahyah wrote:What seems to happen is the interviewer has a set of [or just one] 'gotcha' questions that they want to pursue.
Any nuance around the topic is cut off sharply so they can have the headline quote, one they can drag out later so they can attack said politician with it.

Montague is getting to be unlistenable. Switch off now rather than hear her snorting and huffing.
I wish we could get LBC here - I would listen to James O'Brien's discussions as part of my day. A welcome antidote to some of the abysmal stuff from other presenters. Sadly - for whatever reason - my laptop won't play it.

On another tack ... having to look hard for a replacement radio that doesn't have totally redundant and useless DAB function. Our kitchen radio died recently. Dreading the time they switch off FM .... we will be out in the audio cold then. DAB isn't going to cut it/ reach here. Grrrrrhh - bloody new technologies that aren't worth introducing - I put this on a par with the vile Beta.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Kerry McCarthy MP ‏@KerryMP 11m11 minutes ago
Christopher Chope says bats "should not get a free ride in churches". #releasethebats

Kerry McCarthy MP ‏@KerryMP 6m6 minutes ago
The bats have left the bell-tower.
What the hell is Chope up to now?
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 1h 1 hour ago
Lib Dem MP tells me party would be prepared to prop up the Tories if they win more votes but fewer seats than Labour http://bit.ly/1yRtJgx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 2h 2 hours ago
Behind the bluster, the Tories and the Lib Dems are preparing for another coalition - my NS column: http://bit.ly/1yRtJgx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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frightful_oik
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by frightful_oik »

QT looks shite tonight. Farage again. Brand. Creagh. Mordaunt. Camilla Cavendish.
DD will be making sure the topics are all UKIP-friendly no doubt.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

James O'Brien retweeted
audioBoom @audioBoom · 1h 1 hour ago
#News Great news! The man who told @LBC he was too poor to eat has been offered a job. We love news like this! http://bit.ly/1zPHR8j
Whooo hoooo. I really hope it all goes well for him. What a welcome bit of good news.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by citizenJA »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
James O'Brien retweeted
audioBoom @audioBoom · 1h 1 hour ago
#News Great news! The man who told @LBC he was too poor to eat has been offered a job. We love news like this! http://bit.ly/1zPHR8j
Whooo hoooo. I really hope it all goes well for him. What a welcome bit of good news.
Good news indeed!
We have work & wealth enough for everyone.
The journey ten-thousand steps long starts with one step.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
James O'Brien retweeted
audioBoom @audioBoom · 1h 1 hour ago
#News Great news! The man who told @LBC he was too poor to eat has been offered a job. We love news like this! http://bit.ly/1zPHR8j
Whooo hoooo. I really hope it all goes well for him. What a welcome bit of good news.
Good news indeed!
We have work & wealth enough for everyone.
The journey ten-thousand steps long starts with one step.
Here is another step. Chelsea have become the first English professional club to be accredited as a Living Wage employer; well overdue, slightly shameful it has taken them so long, but ever more shameful that other clubs are still not at this point but baby steps ....

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-ne ... r=22910295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
DonutHingeParty
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by DonutHingeParty »

Listening to Ed's speech, I couldn't help thinking of this particular passage.
"I like the Walrus best," said Alice, "because you see he was a little sorry for the poor oysters."
"He ate more than the Carpenter, though," said Tweedledee. "You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise."
"That was mean!" Alice said indignantly. "Then I like the Carpenter best—if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus."
"But he ate as many as he could get," said Tweedledum.
This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, "Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—"
Are we being asked to choose between Walruses and Carpenters in the next election?
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mbc1955
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by mbc1955 »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Whooo hoooo. I really hope it all goes well for him. What a welcome bit of good news.
Good news indeed!
We have work & wealth enough for everyone.
The journey ten-thousand steps long starts with one step.
Here is another step. Chelsea have become the first English professional club to be accredited as a Living Wage employer; well overdue, slightly shameful it has taken them so long, but ever more shameful that other clubs are still not at this point but baby steps ....

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-ne ... r=22910295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Actually, whilst credit is still due to you for taking the step (and may your example inspire or at worst shame many others into doing so), you're not the first: Luton Town beat you to the punch yesterday.

And if you'll forgive a tiny touch of partizanship, FC United of Manchester beat both of you by doing it last month.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by citizenJA »

DonutHingeParty wrote:Listening to Ed's speech, I couldn't help thinking of this particular passage.
"I like the Walrus best," said Alice, "because you see he was a little sorry for the poor oysters."
"He ate more than the Carpenter, though," said Tweedledee. "You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise."
"That was mean!" Alice said indignantly. "Then I like the Carpenter best—if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus."
"But he ate as many as he could get," said Tweedledum.
This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, "Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—"
Are we being asked to choose between Walruses and Carpenters in the next election?
No.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

DonutHingeParty wrote:Listening to Ed's speech, I couldn't help thinking of this particular passage.
"I like the Walrus best," said Alice, "because you see he was a little sorry for the poor oysters."
"He ate more than the Carpenter, though," said Tweedledee. "You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise."
"That was mean!" Alice said indignantly. "Then I like the Carpenter best—if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus."
"But he ate as many as he could get," said Tweedledum.
This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, "Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—"
Are we being asked to choose between Walruses and Carpenters in the next election?
No, we're being asked to choose between a bunch of sociopathic incompetent thugs and a party who are having to deal with the realities of the destruction that has been wreaked on these islands over the past four years, and might not be able to do things as quickly as they would like.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
letsskiptotheleft
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

Miliband rules out an increase in VAT, you know, that thing we all cannot avoid, the unemployed, those who live on social security, some security it is these days, pensioners. The Tories have not ruled it out.

Another differential between the two parties.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

mbc1955 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good news indeed!
We have work & wealth enough for everyone.
The journey ten-thousand steps long starts with one step.
Here is another step. Chelsea have become the first English professional club to be accredited as a Living Wage employer; well overdue, slightly shameful it has taken them so long, but ever more shameful that other clubs are still not at this point but baby steps ....

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-ne ... r=22910295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Actually, whilst credit is still due to you for taking the step (and may your example inspire or at worst shame many others into doing so), you're not the first: Luton Town beat you to the punch yesterday.

And if you'll forgive a tiny touch of partizanship, FC United of Manchester beat both of you by doing it last month.
My apologies, badly worded. To be strictly accurate Chelsea are the first Premier League team to do this, to their credit Luton and FC United (the proper United) beat them to it, as you pointed out.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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Willow904
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by Willow904 »

DonutHingeParty wrote:Listening to Ed's speech, I couldn't help thinking of this particular passage.
"I like the Walrus best," said Alice, "because you see he was a little sorry for the poor oysters."
"He ate more than the Carpenter, though," said Tweedledee. "You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise."
"That was mean!" Alice said indignantly. "Then I like the Carpenter best—if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus."
"But he ate as many as he could get," said Tweedledum.
This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, "Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—"
Are we being asked to choose between Walruses and Carpenters in the next election?
I don't know:
And he has identified difficult cuts: winter fuel payments for the wealthy; capping child benefit; getting rid of police and crime commissioners; cutting ministers’ pay; cutting local government back office costs.
Can you see David Cameron cutting minister's pay? And the police and crime commissioners are a good example of money the current government has been wasting for political reasons that hasn't helped ordinary people or helped reduce the deficit. I thought the line Ed came up with about how the Tories are putting unfunded tax cuts before the NHS is telling. The Tories have lurched so far to the right that what sounds like the Tories' policies of 5 years ago, although not what people want to hear from Labour, sounds positively moderate in comparison to what we would face under the Tories. If that sounds pretty bleak, that's because it is bleak. Labour's job now is going to be much harder than it would have been 5 years ago because of the damage Osborne has done. If they build more houses, council houses, regulate landlords etc they can bring the housing benefit bill down eventually, for example, but what happens in the meantime? The emergency low interest rates introduced by Gordon Brown were supposed to tide us over whilst we made these important reforms but the Tories have done the opposite and now we're in a hole so big we're stuck with making these reforms after the cushioning effects of low interest rates have worn off and there will be a horrendous gap before any reforms bring dividends. Increases in minimum wage, decreases in small business rates etc are small fry I know, but at least will have impact sooner and don't forget Labour are going to borrow to invest and have ruled out a VAT rise.

Anything else from Labour, any sense they won't make cuts, and the media will take them apart. Depressing I know, but a conservative economic agenda doesn't stop Labour from being radical in other ways, such abolition of the Lords, which will have a much more lasting impact on our country for the better.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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mbc1955
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by mbc1955 »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Here is another step. Chelsea have become the first English professional club to be accredited as a Living Wage employer; well overdue, slightly shameful it has taken them so long, but ever more shameful that other clubs are still not at this point but baby steps ....

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-ne ... r=22910295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Actually, whilst credit is still due to you for taking the step (and may your example inspire or at worst shame many others into doing so), you're not the first: Luton Town beat you to the punch yesterday.

And if you'll forgive a tiny touch of partizanship, FC United of Manchester beat both of you by doing it last month.
My apologies, badly worded. To be strictly accurate Chelsea are the first Premier League team to do this, to their credit Luton and FC United (the proper United) beat them to it, as you pointed out.
Absolutely, and all credit to them. There is absolutely no reason why that example couldn't be followed by Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal and Liverpool at the barest minimum, and even less reason why it shouldn't, but I'm happy to give Chelsea a hearty round of applause (though not necessarily for anything else...)
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DonutHingeParty
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by DonutHingeParty »

I like the refusal to salami slice, but I'm not convinced that the light populist measures that have been announced so far will do the job. There's not as much ambition as I would have hoped for, merely a rolling back of previously imposed measures.

As far as I can see, the revenue raisers on the wealthy will be:

Mansion Tax (And additional Stamp Duty Tax, thank you Mr Osborne)

"Bankers" bonuses. How someone is determined as a 'banker' in law is still a mystery to me. Does this include Hedge Fund Managers? Pension funds? Ethical investors in developing African States? I guess it will be a more general tax on ex gratia payments and performance related bonuses over a certain amount regardless of what the individual actually does for a living.

Bringing back the 50% tax band.

The rest of the financial strategy seems to be aimed at cutting departments slowly, and looking at cuts on a year by year basis rather than the short sharp shock of the Coalition, and hoping that investment in education and skills reaps tax receipts high enough to close the deficit.

Much as I would love it to be the case, I'm not convinced that that's enough for a five year programme, and the more I hear the above 'tinkerings' mentioned, the more I think that there's not much left in the cupboard.
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

DonutHingeParty wrote:I like the refusal to salami slice, but I'm not convinced that the light populist measures that have been announced so far will do the job. There's not as much ambition as I would have hoped for, merely a rolling back of previously imposed measures.

As far as I can see, the revenue raisers on the wealthy will be:

Mansion Tax (And additional Stamp Duty Tax, thank you Mr Osborne)

"Bankers" bonuses. How someone is determined as a 'banker' in law is still a mystery to me. Does this include Hedge Fund Managers? Pension funds? Ethical investors in developing African States? I guess it will be a more general tax on ex gratia payments and performance related bonuses over a certain amount regardless of what the individual actually does for a living.

Bringing back the 50% tax band.

The rest of the financial strategy seems to be aimed at cutting departments slowly, and looking at cuts on a year by year basis rather than the short sharp shock of the Coalition, and hoping that investment in education and skills reaps tax receipts high enough to close the deficit.

Much as I would love it to be the case, I'm not convinced that that's enough for a five year programme, and the more I hear the above 'tinkerings' mentioned, the more I think that there's not much left in the cupboard.
Not much left in which cupboard? If you are talking the cupboard with the money in, well, 5 years of Dave & George handing over our cash to their buddies has to have had some impact and won't, as a very wise lady has just said elsewhere, be easy to untangle; if you are talking the ideas cupboard, no, plenty left in there.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by citizenJA »

mbc1955 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
mbc1955 wrote: Actually, whilst credit is still due to you for taking the step (and may your example inspire or at worst shame many others into doing so), you're not the first: Luton Town beat you to the punch yesterday.

And if you'll forgive a tiny touch of partizanship, FC United of Manchester beat both of you by doing it last month.
My apologies, badly worded. To be strictly accurate Chelsea are the first Premier League team to do this, to their credit Luton and FC United (the proper United) beat them to it, as you pointed out.
Absolutely, and all credit to them. There is absolutely no reason why that example couldn't be followed by Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal and Liverpool at the barest minimum, and even less reason why it shouldn't, but I'm happy to give Chelsea a hearty round of applause (though not necessarily for anything else...)
LABOUR WILL:
• Give football fans a voice in every club boardroom and the
right to buy a significant slice of their local football club if
ownership changes hands.
• Give communities the power to limit the spread of payday
lenders and prevent their high streets from becoming
dominated by certain types of premises.
• Give local areas across England London-style powers to set bus
routes and fares.
• Devolve to all parts of England, including the shires, not just
the Tories limited plans for a handful of big cities.

http://b.3cdn.net/labouruk/414e1ab67632 ... 6bflfq.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Has everyone seen this Labour manual? It was AngryAsWell who'd given me the heads' up on it recently sent just a couple of days ago, thank you, AAW.
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refitman
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by refitman »

Holy crap:
Just £34m of IT investment will be re-usable from more than £600m spent on the Universal Credit car-crash IT programme "if" a digital version of the system ever arrives, a Public Accounts Committee hearing has indicated.

"The truth is of what we've invested in live, only £34m will go over to digital," said PAC chair Margaret Hodge.
Apparently UC has been rated amber-red again by the Treasury.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/11 ... al_credit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by citizenJA »

DonutHingeParty wrote:I like the refusal to salami slice, but I'm not convinced that the light populist measures that have been announced so far will do the job. There's not as much ambition as I would have hoped for, merely a rolling back of previously imposed measures.

As far as I can see, the revenue raisers on the wealthy will be:

Mansion Tax (And additional Stamp Duty Tax, thank you Mr Osborne)

"Bankers" bonuses. How someone is determined as a 'banker' in law is still a mystery to me. Does this include Hedge Fund Managers? Pension funds? Ethical investors in developing African States? I guess it will be a more general tax on ex gratia payments and performance related bonuses over a certain amount regardless of what the individual actually does for a living.

Bringing back the 50% tax band.

The rest of the financial strategy seems to be aimed at cutting departments slowly, and looking at cuts on a year by year basis rather than the short sharp shock of the Coalition, and hoping that investment in education and skills reaps tax receipts high enough to close the deficit.

Much as I would love it to be the case, I'm not convinced that that's enough for a five year programme, and the more I hear the above 'tinkerings' mentioned, the more I think that there's not much left in the cupboard.
LABOUR WILL:
• Cut business rates in 2015 and then freeze them in 2016 for
over 1.5 million business properties.
• Devolve £30 billion of funding and give control over the full
revenue from the growth in business rates to powerhouse
economic regions so they can back local growth.
Reform our banking system: taxing bank bonuses and
increasing competition with at least two new challenger banks
on the high street.

• Introduce a new levy on payday lenders and use the funds
raised to boost low cost alternatives like credit unions.
Create a British Investment Bank along with a network of
regional banks to boost lending for small businesses to grow.

• Establish an Infrastructure Commission to plan and secure the
infrastructure that Britain needs.
• Safeguard the services consumers and businesses get from the
privatised Royal Mail and keep the remaining 30 per cent in
public ownership.

http://b.3cdn.net/labouruk/414e1ab67632 ... 6bflfq.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my bold)

The creation of a British Investment Bank alone is huge in its implications - combined with banking reform & 'challenger banks on the high street' - this is nothing less than fundamental economic reform, that is government, the state, democratically elected, creating a democratically accountable economic system.

I can't emphasise enough how monumental these policies are coming from the Labour party - essentially it's the unpinning of the all-powerful financier economy the UK currently continues to flounder under to benefit just a few.
WelshIan
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by WelshIan »

Iain Duncan Smith has promised to respond positively to a Church of England-backed report on the spread of food banks in the UK, saying he was looking at how sanctioned claimants that lose jobseeker’s allowance need not lose housing benefit as well.

The work and pensions secretary told MPs: “We want to do everything we can to make sure that people do not stumble into a process of sanctions” – the loss of benefits entitlement that is one of the most common reasons that people use food banks.
From http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... e-critical" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How about saying that no one will get sanctioned for the next 3-4 months (at a minimum) whilst you investigate an obviously broken sanctions regime. That would make sure no one stumbles into sanctions.

IDS has the power to slash the use of food banks. Will he do it? Of course he won't!
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by WelshIan »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 1h 1 hour ago
Lib Dem MP tells me party would be prepared to prop up the Tories if they win more votes but fewer seats than Labour http://bit.ly/1yRtJgx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 2h 2 hours ago
Behind the bluster, the Tories and the Lib Dems are preparing for another coalition - my NS column: http://bit.ly/1yRtJgx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The LDs ruled out working with Labour on that same basis in 2010. I guess it's too much to expect them to act with any consistency.

Edit: sorry, I'm wrong. That should say:

The LDs ruled out working with Labour because they didn't have a majority between them in 2010. What if Tories/LDs don't have a majority in 2015? How can they try and form a government then? I guess it's too much to expect the LDs to act with any consistency.
Last edited by WelshIan on Thu 11 Dec, 2014 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

DonutHingeParty wrote:I like the refusal to salami slice, but I'm not convinced that the light populist measures that have been announced so far will do the job. There's not as much ambition as I would have hoped for, merely a rolling back of previously imposed measures.

As far as I can see, the revenue raisers on the wealthy will be:

Mansion Tax (And additional Stamp Duty Tax, thank you Mr Osborne)

"Bankers" bonuses. How someone is determined as a 'banker' in law is still a mystery to me. Does this include Hedge Fund Managers? Pension funds? Ethical investors in developing African States? I guess it will be a more general tax on ex gratia payments and performance related bonuses over a certain amount regardless of what the individual actually does for a living.

Bringing back the 50% tax band.

The rest of the financial strategy seems to be aimed at cutting departments slowly, and looking at cuts on a year by year basis rather than the short sharp shock of the Coalition, and hoping that investment in education and skills reaps tax receipts high enough to close the deficit.

Much as I would love it to be the case, I'm not convinced that that's enough for a five year programme, and the more I hear the above 'tinkerings' mentioned, the more I think that there's not much left in the cupboard.
I think there is more than that. It is highly significant IMO that Labour are only saying they will match Tory spending plans for *one* year - and Balls seems, happily, to have resurrected the "borrow to invest" option that appeared to have been junked in his ill-starred conference speech.

Make no mistake, things will be difficult if Labour win next year - but they can still make a difference in all sorts of ways.

Let's not forget that the Attlee government also had "no money".
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by WelshIan »

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
James O'Brien retweeted
audioBoom @audioBoom · 1h 1 hour ago
#News Great news! The man who told @LBC he was too poor to eat has been offered a job. We love news like this! http://bit.ly/1zPHR8j
Whooo hoooo. I really hope it all goes well for him. What a welcome bit of good news.
Good news indeed!
We have work & wealth enough for everyone.
The journey ten-thousand steps long starts with one step.
Yes, good news for him.

Are the rest of the unemployed going to have to phone a talk show as part of their job search or face sanctions? :?
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

‘The mess we inherited’ – some facts with which to fight the Tory Big Lies - See more at:

http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/20 ... -big-lies/
Useful !
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

WelshIan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Whooo hoooo. I really hope it all goes well for him. What a welcome bit of good news.
Good news indeed!
We have work & wealth enough for everyone.
The journey ten-thousand steps long starts with one step.
Yes, good news for him.

Are the rest of the unemployed going to have to phone a talk show as part of their job search or face sanctions? :?
I'm afraid it looks that way and inevitably Tories are going to hit back by saying there is plenty of work out there if you use your ingenuity, ergo those who don't get a job aren't really trying.

It's a no win situation with them. The only reply is to give them a bloody good thrashing in 2015.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
DonutHingeParty wrote:I like the refusal to salami slice, but I'm not convinced that the light populist measures that have been announced so far will do the job. There's not as much ambition as I would have hoped for, merely a rolling back of previously imposed measures.

As far as I can see, the revenue raisers on the wealthy will be:

Mansion Tax (And additional Stamp Duty Tax, thank you Mr Osborne)

"Bankers" bonuses. How someone is determined as a 'banker' in law is still a mystery to me. Does this include Hedge Fund Managers? Pension funds? Ethical investors in developing African States? I guess it will be a more general tax on ex gratia payments and performance related bonuses over a certain amount regardless of what the individual actually does for a living.

Bringing back the 50% tax band.

The rest of the financial strategy seems to be aimed at cutting departments slowly, and looking at cuts on a year by year basis rather than the short sharp shock of the Coalition, and hoping that investment in education and skills reaps tax receipts high enough to close the deficit.

Much as I would love it to be the case, I'm not convinced that that's enough for a five year programme, and the more I hear the above 'tinkerings' mentioned, the more I think that there's not much left in the cupboard.
I think there is more than that. It is highly significant IMO that Labour are only saying they will match Tory spending plans for *one* year - and Balls seems, happily, to have resurrected the "borrow to invest" option that appeared to have been junked in his ill-starred conference speech.

Make no mistake, things will be difficult if Labour win next year - but they can still make a difference in all sorts of ways.

Let's not forget that the Attlee government also had "no money".
If, as soon as he gets in, he whacks ZH, below minimum wage and goes for the throat of the employers who deliberately employ foreign labour at the expense of workers here, then things are going to pick up no end.,
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

Give the workers a few quid a week more with a bit more security and they'll spend it.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by yahyah »

Peter Jukes@peterjukes
Daniel Morgan murder: Scotland Yard ‘obstructs’ panel inquiry http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5426/ ... Ro.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

What a surprise. Not.
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

BBC Question Time has, for one night only, been renamed "The Egos Have Landed" to reflect the presence of Messrs Farage (again) and Brand (again) on the panel. Can I recommend, for the preservation of your own sanities, that people here give it the swerve; BBC 4 have the second part of their compilation of Spine Millington's Q series (the first part was last night) which is to be recommended as an alternative to watching QT for two reasons:

Firstly, repeats of Q are as rare as hen's teeth.
Secondly, as surreal as it is, it will probably still make more sense than the babblings of Farage and Brand.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

Peter George Owen ‏@pgo1980 3m3 minutes ago
Martin Rowson on @David_Cameron & the #NHS. 'Save in his hands'. #CameronOut

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4lDC4lIMAEqz6r.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Has to be one of Rowson's best yet.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:BBC Question Time has, for one night only, been renamed "The Egos Have Landed" to reflect the presence of Messrs Farage (again) and Brand (again) on the panel. Can I recommend, for the preservation of your own sanities, that people here give it the swerve; BBC 4 have the second part of their compilation of Spine Millington's Q series (the first part was last night) which is to be recommended as an alternative to watching QT for two reasons:

Firstly, repeats of Q are as rare as hen's teeth.
Secondly, as surreal as it is, it will probably still make more sense than the babblings of Farage and Brand.
I haven't watched QT for a long time. It's far too bad for my sanity.

I'd gone to bed and missed the Spike Milligan compilation. Hoping to catch it on iPlayer.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

Tories snub would-be MP as ‘brown and woman’

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/d ... 17919.html
It's appalling but doesn't surprise me. Bexhill. :roll:
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

ohsocynical wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:BBC Question Time has, for one night only, been renamed "The Egos Have Landed" to reflect the presence of Messrs Farage (again) and Brand (again) on the panel. Can I recommend, for the preservation of your own sanities, that people here give it the swerve; BBC 4 have the second part of their compilation of Spine Millington's Q series (the first part was last night) which is to be recommended as an alternative to watching QT for two reasons:

Firstly, repeats of Q are as rare as hen's teeth.
Secondly, as surreal as it is, it will probably still make more sense than the babblings of Farage and Brand.
I haven't watched QT for a long time. It's far too bad for my sanity.

I'd gone to bed and missed the Spike Milligan compilation. Hoping to catch it on iPlayer.
I did too. Feeling somewhat rough at the moment (a dose of man flu) so watched the Chris Jefferies drama and then hit the sack, intention is to do the same today; but those Q's are a must, so iPlayer to the rescue!!
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

I've just read. 149 days to the GE.
Is it possible wonderful, clever, Refitman, Paul and Ernst, to have a daily countdown starting Jan. 1st?

Just so we know how far we are from nervous breakdowns you understand. [Insert brown nosing Smiley here.]
Last edited by ohsocynical on Thu 11 Dec, 2014 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Thursday 11th December 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:BBC Question Time has, for one night only, been renamed "The Egos Have Landed" to reflect the presence of Messrs Farage (again) and Brand (again) on the panel. Can I recommend, for the preservation of your own sanities, that people here give it the swerve; BBC 4 have the second part of their compilation of Spine Millington's Q series (the first part was last night) which is to be recommended as an alternative to watching QT for two reasons:

Firstly, repeats of Q are as rare as hen's teeth.
Secondly, as surreal as it is, it will probably still make more sense than the babblings of Farage and Brand.
I've just had this in from British Influence (cant remember who they are or why they have my details ...must go look that up)
Dear BI Supporter
Tonight UKIP’s perpetually thirsty leader will be on BBC Question Time - his 12th appearance since the last general election. This means that he’s been on once every 11 episodes on average.

If you count the appearances of all other UKIP representatives, UKIP has taken part in the programme once every 5 episodes. Just by way of comparison, Green party representatives have appeared once every 14 episodes since 2010. There have only been four guests from the world of science and no member of the TUC or CBI has graced their panel at all during the past five years.

Annoying, sure, but what can you do about? Plenty, as it happens. Like all broadcasters, the BBC is regulated by Ofcom and has to abide by its rules on impartiality and accuracy in its news and current affairs content.

The Eurosceptics have become aggressive and organised serial complainers. They have cowed the BBC into a position where the only safe, uncontroversial way to ‘deal’ with Europe is to debate it through the UKIP prism.

Together with thousands of other British Influence supporters you can help rebalance the debate.
They then give a link to complain to BBC, which I have just done
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