Friday 12th December 2014

Post by **refitman** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 7:26 am

Morning all. Labour lead at 2 points on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 11th December -

Con 32%, (-1)
Lab 34%, (+1)
LD 7%, (+1)
UKIP 14%; (-1)
Grn 7%; (nc)

APP -24 (nc)

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 7:36 am

This is one of those "nice headline, shame about the facts" stories.

Water bills 'to fall by 5% by 2020'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30444592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Water bills to fall? Wahey!

Household water bills in England and Wales will fall by an average of 5% - not including inflation - by 2020

So they're not in fact going to fall at all then?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 8:09 am

The usually tedious Harris has an ok article today.

In it this little grain of truth.

A long election campaign will decisively begin in a few weeks’ time: where I live, the Tories fancy their chances. And one wonders: what will all this mean for them? Twelve years after Theresa May warned them of the perils of being seen as the nasty party, and nine since David Cameron began his brief spurt of so-called repositioning, they surely find themselves on the wrong side of far too many big questions.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 8:19 am

Spacedone wrote:This is one of those "nice headline, shame about the facts" stories.

Water bills 'to fall by 5% by 2020'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30444592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Water bills to fall? Wahey!

Household water bills in England and Wales will fall by an average of 5% - not including inflation - by 2020
So they're not in fact going to fall at all then?

So, over the next 6 years pennies per week will be taken off the amount that bills are now but will go up by whatever the rate of inflation is... Hmm... By 2020 our bills will have become as much as 75p per week cheaper (most expensive area) or as little as about 7p per week cheaper, compared with today. Apart from inflation. Give with one hand, take with the other... Again.

Every penny helps

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 8:35 am

Morning All!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 8:49 am

Great to see our PM acting in a statespersonlike manner in the NI talks (not)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30440229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sinn Féin said

"David Cameron needs to stop playing the penny pinching accountant and start playing the political leader."

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 8:50 am

MPs to debate curtailing judicial review on Monday as rebel Lib Dem peers face wrath of senior party figures
http://www.libdemvoice.org/mps-to-debat ... 43732.html

Senior Liberal Democrats are getting very rattled by the rebellion. I’m hearing tales of angry rows and confrontations with rebel peers being told that they are damaging our General Election chances as if being associated with a measure like this wouldn’t.

So the 'senior' Lib Dems would rather their peers and MPs voted for something about which Grayling has clearly misled the HoC and is loathed by not just those rebelling Lib Dems but also many, if not more, Tory peers ....? And is clearly the most illiberal and anti civil liberties measure out. And wasn't in their luvvy duvvy coalition agreement.

And just how, how I shout, is voting for this meant to improve the Lib Dems election chances?

Warped. Utterly warped.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 8:53 am

Tee Hee

Brian Tomkinson retweeted
BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 16h16 hours ago
What's the cube root of 125? The question from a schoolboy that left @NickyMorgan01 stumped http://bbc.in/1zBrvSv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 8:55 am

Good morning.

1. If Jason Watkins doesn't get a BAFTA for his portrayal of Christopher Jefferies, there is no justice.

2. If Universal Credit claimants in the roll-out areas don't get a payment before Christmas, there is no justice.

3. If #ToriesMustGo isn't at the top of the trending list on Twitter by teatime, there is no justice.

4. If prisoners do not get parcels from their families, including books, before Christmas, there is no justice.

5. If I don't get the last 6 week's worth of unpaid ESA which I am entitled to soon, there is no justice.

Actually, skip all that.

There is no justice.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:20 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Tee Hee

Brian Tomkinson retweeted
BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 16h16 hours ago
What's the cube root of 125? The question from a schoolboy that left @NickyMorgan01 stumped http://bbc.in/1zBrvSv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - it was a lovely challenge by that schoolboy. And then, when she couldn't or wouldn't answer ... he asked her a harder question. Bang on. Lesson to be learned by all BBC interviewers.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:23 am

Maria Eagle MP retweeted
Mark Ferguson ‏@Markfergusonuk 10m10 minutes ago
“These people don’t give a damn about Liverpool” - what happened when I spoke to @meaglemp about the Tories…http://labourlist.org/2014/12/weve-got- ... he-tories/ …

Good interview with Maria Eagle. Along with her predecessor at Defra, Mary Creagh, she's a good un in my book.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:25 am

Morning.

Apologies in advance for linking the work of this man, who is without doubt the least entertaining writer I have come across in nearly 20 years as a Guardian reader.

But can anyone tell me the point of the reference to "Ed Militant" in the middle? Anyone? Anyone at all? Especially as Cameron is granted the courtesy of his real name. As indeed is literally every other person referred to in the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... television" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:26 am

Have just noticed I am now Prime Minister. Got that folks, Prime Minister.

I noticed this because my arms suddenly developed a nasty reflex action, an urge to point at inanimate objects.

I am off to have this embarrassing twitch fixed post haste.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:28 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Apologies in advance for linking the work of this man, who is without doubt the least entertaining writer I have come across in nearly 20 years as a Guardian reader.

But can anyone tell me the point of the reference to "Ed Militant" in the middle? Anyone? Anyone at all? Especially as Cameron is granted the courtesy of his real name. As indeed is literally every other person referred to in the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... television" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure how/why Crace gets paid for the crap he produces for the Guardian.

Hopefully the new editor may turf him out.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:40 am

@TechnicalEphemera - you might want to watch your post count today

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:40 am

Morning all.

A couple of things that caught my eye.

"Farage is worse than stagnant, he is a tribute act, he is a nostalgic spasm for a Britain that never was; an infinite cricket green with no one from the colonies to raise the game, grammar schools on every corner and shamed women breastfeeding under giant parasols. The Britain of the future will be born of alliances between ordinary, self-governing people, organised locally, communicating globally. Built on principles that are found in traditions like Christianity; community, altruism, kindness, love."
http://www.russellbrand.com/2014/12/answer-time/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And EVEL. Not sure how I feel about this proposal.

http://centrallobby.politicshome.com/la ... lish-laws/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:43 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Great to see our PM acting in a statespersonlike manner in the NI talks (not)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30440229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sinn Féin said
"David Cameron needs to stop playing the penny pinching accountant and start playing the political leader."

I have to say, though, Martin McGuinness had a bloody cheek in pointing out that the reason Northern Ireland needed more money was because of fallout from The Troubles.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:50 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Apologies in advance for linking the work of this man, who is without doubt the least entertaining writer I have come across in nearly 20 years as a Guardian reader.

But can anyone tell me the point of the reference to "Ed Militant" in the middle? Anyone? Anyone at all? Especially as Cameron is granted the courtesy of his real name. As indeed is literally every other person referred to in the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... television" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's odd, isn't it? A freudian slip? Except it's been pointed out btl but hasn't been corrected. I'm all for it it, though. Labour were doing better when the "Red Ed" label was being bandied around and Cameron was accusing Ed of being a socialist in the Commons. Of late the "they're all the same" tag being pushed by Farage and Brand has taken hold and Labour have struggled as a result. Anything that reminds people that the establishment actually fear Ed as a bit of a lefty is actually a plus in my book.

On another topic, Today was interviewing some young Scottish voters who aren't impressed with Labour. One said they were 'boring'. Clearly the SNP and Greens are picking up votes, not for sound, solid policies, but because they are newer, fresher and therefore more exciting. It's the 'X' Factor effect. It's like the Tories are Madonna and Labour The Smiths - sooo 1980s. And the Libdems are last year's "X" Factor winner, already forgotten as Ukip and Greens slog it out to be crowned this year's champion. I'm being harsh, I know, but couldn't at least one of them have said they preferred the Greens, because, you know, they believe in saving the environment?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 9:56 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Apologies in advance for linking the work of this man, who is without doubt the least entertaining writer I have come across in nearly 20 years as a Guardian reader.

But can anyone tell me the point of the reference to "Ed Militant" in the middle? Anyone? Anyone at all? Especially as Cameron is granted the courtesy of his real name. As indeed is literally every other person referred to in the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... television" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The "Ed Militant" is just ludicrous. Jarringly, unfunnily, annoyingly superfluous.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:04 am

Teresa Crawford retweeted
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 3h3 hours ago
Exclusive. Hilary Benn and Sadiq Khan unveil Labour plan for English only MPs committee stage for England only bills http://centrallobby.politicshome.com/la ... lish-laws/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:08 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Apologies in advance for linking the work of this man, who is without doubt the least entertaining writer I have come across in nearly 20 years as a Guardian reader.

But can anyone tell me the point of the reference to "Ed Militant" in the middle? Anyone? Anyone at all? Especially as Cameron is granted the courtesy of his real name. As indeed is literally every other person referred to in the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... television" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The "Ed Militant" is just ludicrous. Jarringly, unfunnily, annoyingly superfluous.

Done on an ipad? Another word is mis-spelt in the same sentence. But as others say, Crace is a writer of no talent whatsoever.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:10 am

Great blog post from Robin Lustig

http://lustigletter.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... en-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

osbornes-world-it-hasnt-fallen-in

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:14 am

frightful_oik wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Apologies in advance for linking the work of this man, who is without doubt the least entertaining writer I have come across in nearly 20 years as a Guardian reader.

But can anyone tell me the point of the reference to "Ed Militant" in the middle? Anyone? Anyone at all? Especially as Cameron is granted the courtesy of his real name. As indeed is literally every other person referred to in the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... television" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The "Ed Militant" is just ludicrous. Jarringly, unfunnily, annoyingly superfluous.
Done on an ipad? Another word is mis-spelt in the same sentence. But as others say, Crace is a writer of no talent whatsoever.

Except an iPad would make Farage, Garage, yet the article didn't have any trouble getting that right. Getting someone's name wrong can just be a slip, I suppose, but some psychologists believe it's rarely accidental:

Though calling someone the wrong name feels like an error, Dr. Goodman says all psychoanalysts agree "that there are no accidents." Though the word wasn't supposed to get air time, it was no random coincidence.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:19 am

It is when you see a piece from John Crace that you really begin to miss Simon Hoggart. But he is the right man for Rusbridger's Guardian whereas, arguably, Hoggart (along with Rowson and Bell) were/are an uncomfortable fit; they belong to the Guardian I used to buy, the progressive one, that wouldn't have kowtowed to this sociopathic Coalition.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:31 am

Morning

Andy Burnham in the New Statesman

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... nhs-record" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:39 am

Jarringly, unfunnily, annoyingly superfluous.

That sums up John Crace pretty well

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:39 am

Apologies, where are my manners - morning all

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 10:40 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

Andy Burnham in the New Statesman

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... nhs-record" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good article, powerful and passionate. Now, more than ever, it is clear that the NHS is where GE2015 will be won or lost.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 11:04 am

Glad to see the Crace hate on here - he really is a talentless little worm

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 11:38 am

The Guardian view on Ed Miliband: splitting the difference

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... difference

Yet another Guardian View on Ed Miliband. They're coming thick and fast. Can anyone remember the last Guardian View on David Cameron?

Indeed, what's happened to David Cameron? He seems to have disappeared off abroad, leaving May to be incompetent at the Home Office and Osborne to get ratty in interviews. Clegg did a reasonable impression of him at PMQs on Wednesday but there's still a sense of absence, like we don't really have a PM at the moment. It's actually rather nice. Maybe Iceland could have a small volcanic eruption with the wind in the wrong direction again and delay his return...?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 11:39 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-30439592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Man to be deported because wife's salary too low"

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 11:47 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Tee Hee

Brian Tomkinson retweeted
BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews 16h16 hours ago
What's the cube root of 125? The question from a schoolboy that left @NickyMorgan01 stumped http://bbc.in/1zBrvSv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes - it was a lovely challenge by that schoolboy. And then, when she couldn't or wouldn't answer ... he asked her a harder question. Bang on. Lesson to be learned by all BBC interviewers.
To be honest, I have a bit of a problem with this sort of questioning. Partly because I was always unable to do any kind of mental arithmetic, or at least incredibly slow, and yet I managed to be one of only two people in my year to pass Further Maths.

On the other hand, even I got the answer to that question in seconds, and if I can do it, literally anyone can.

Nicky Morgan was stitched up like a kipper as they say in my neck of the woods. Leon Remphry is not your average 10 year old; he has, for example, been the prime mover behind a petition to stop library closures in Cornwall which was part of the reason he was on there yesterday, So I suspect that Sky News hoped he would do something like that, to show her in an unfavourable light when compared to (Murdoch fave) Michael "Pob" Gove.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 11:57 am

RobertSnozers wrote:On an admin related matter, could one of you technical genii help me with my avatar? I can't get the thing below 20Kb without going down to about 4 pixels square. Anything I can do on PS Elements to reduce the file size without the picture becoming unrecognisably small/pixelated?

I used a program called FastStone Image Viewer (http://www.faststone.org/FSViewerDetail.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and use it to set the dimensions. This usually ends up with the file size being correct.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 11:59 am

RobertSnozers wrote:On an admin related matter, could one of you technical genii help me with my avatar? I can't get the thing below 20Kb without going down to about 4 pixels square. Anything I can do on PS Elements to reduce the file size without the picture becoming unrecognisably small/pixelated?

What format is the picture saved as? The new avatar I've just uploaded is about 20kb as a jpeg, but less than 6kb when saved as a gif.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:03 pm

Good-morning - soon to be afternoon - oops - the morning is, in fact, gone. Good afternoon.
Apologies for failing to say goodnight to you all yesterday, tough day.

There are days I can't find mainstream information about current affairs, yesterday was one of them - it's frustrating.
I was looking for further information about the drop in oil prices, loosely speaking, drop in oil prices but there's more to that topic than just drop in oil prices. Something's going on. I want to know what we're looking at from a socio-economic, political & environmental point of view. There's fear - there's lots of underlying fear. Apologies for sounding like a Jedi trainee. When sombre, doom-laden headlines in one part of the week don't get resolved & more alarmingly, don't get any follow-up in mainstream press, that's fear at work, wilful or genuine ignorance & fear.

I got fed-up with absurd news stories about nothing.

However, I've read some wonderful contributions recently from Jack Monroe, Mr. Savage & other write ups from wise people dropping by to give us the benefit of their experiences on the G's CIF.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:22 pm

DonutHingeParty wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Great to see our PM acting in a statespersonlike manner in the NI talks (not)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30440229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sinn Féin said
"David Cameron needs to stop playing the penny pinching accountant and start playing the political leader."
I have to say, though, Martin McGuinness had a bloody cheek in pointing out that the reason Northern Ireland needed more money was because of fallout from The Troubles.

Whoa, whoa, there, DHP, may I know what you're referring to, please? I've not been able to find Mr. McGuinness making that suggestion.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:28 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Yes - it was a lovely challenge by that schoolboy. And then, when she couldn't or wouldn't answer ... he asked her a harder question. Bang on. Lesson to be learned by all BBC interviewers.
To be honest, I have a bit of a problem with this sort of questioning. Partly because I was always unable to do any kind of mental arithmetic, or at least incredibly slow, and yet I managed to be one of only two people in my year to pass Further Maths.

On the other hand, even I got the answer to that question in seconds, and if I can do it, literally anyone can.
Nicky Morgan was stitched up like a kipper as they say in my neck of the woods. Leon Remphry is not your average 10 year old; he has, for example, been the prime mover behind a petition to stop library closures in Cornwall which was part of the reason he was on there yesterday, So I suspect that Sky News hoped he would do something like that, to show her in an unfavourable light when compared to (Murdoch fave) Michael "Pob" Gove.

Those ten year old persons with their library saving agendas & asking questions of current government's Education Minister...

In all seriousness, I've no problems with asking this sort of question at all. None. If the Education Minister doesn't like questions, that Education Minister may resign & find something else to do.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:35 pm

http://www.housingexcellence.co.uk/news ... ted-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Government to gamble 3.5 billion on scheme to boost private rented sector"

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:40 pm

: ScreenShot00106.jpg (239.64 KiB) Viewed 20731 times

Clegg at DPMQS

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:45 pm

citizenJA wrote:
DonutHingeParty wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Great to see our PM acting in a statespersonlike manner in the NI talks (not)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30440229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sinn Féin said
I have to say, though, Martin McGuinness had a bloody cheek in pointing out that the reason Northern Ireland needed more money was because of fallout from The Troubles.
Whoa, whoa, there, DHP, may I know what you're referring to, please? I've not been able to find Mr. McGuinness making that suggestion.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1211/666063 ... n-ireland/

Flanked by Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams, Mr McGuinness said all five parties were in agreement that the British government had to make more of a contribution financially to Stormont.

"We have reached agreement on what this British government needs to do in budgetary terms," he said.

"We are going, through the course of this negotiation, to make the case - this place here is different, this is not the north of England, this is not London, this isn't Scotland and this isn't Wales.

“We are a society emerging from conflict and legacy of all of that has posed huge problems for our Executive, not least in terms of how we bring our community together, how we build a united community, how we increase sharing in education, how we deal with the whole reconciliation process - special problems that aren't faced by any other region in these islands."

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:49 pm

Edit: Oops.

In other news, I have my question for AQ tonight - I'm going to ask whether we can have EV4EL without PR. With a Lib Dem and a Green in the mix, Rees-Mogg as a staunch FPTP traditionalist, and Ken as a formerly elected mayor in an AV system, it should stimulate debate.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:57 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-30439592

"Man to be deported because wife's salary too low"

I'm sick inside - oh, I'm sorry for this family. I'm so sorry.

The couple met in 2009 working on a cruise ship and lived in South Africa for four years.

They moved to the UK in January 2013 with Mr Engel on a holiday visa, living first in Yorkshire and then in Cornwall.

These are UK citizens, their spouses & children - unless they'd hired someone dedicated to monitoring in real time the jack-ass immigration changes government can make, they wouldn't know, wouldn't understand the implications. Yes, changes get posted somewhere, sometimes with a lot of publicity. But people living with their partner & children making a living somewhere other than the UK won't know or wouldn't believe they'd not be able to come back to the UK with their family.

MorganLlan · Post by **MorganLlan** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:57 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-30439592

"Man to be deported because wife's salary too low"

I think I mentioned that I worked for a short period last year in the Home Office in family migration. It is now over a year since I left and my recollection is a little hazy. However I am rather surprised that deportation is being mentioned. Just to be clear, I think the new Teresa Kitten Heels legislation of 2012 which requires a higher income for applicants seeking to remain as a spouse or partner are draconian and wrong. But there are other avenues, and caseworkers should look at the other circumstances too.

In this case the applicant has failed under the spouse route as they do not meet the income requirement. The applicant should then go on to look at the case under HRA Article 8 - the right to family life and the right to private life, which is set out in Appendix FM and paragraph 276 of the rules respectively. Even if the applicant fails under appendix FM and the exceptions paragraph (EX1) as a partner (which does not consider income but whether there is a genuine and subsisting relationship with a partner who is British, the caseworker should also go on to consider if the applicant has a parental relationship with a child who is a British citizen.

A simple explanation of the rules with regard to the right to family and private life can be found here.

http://www.novellslegals.co.uk/5-new-po ... les-hc395/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Generally it is accepted that it is not reasonable to expect a child who is a British citizen to leave the UK and deporting the child's father would infringe both his and the child's right to family life.

It is possible that the gentleman has made his application under the spouse rules, and has been refused as he did not meet the spousal income requirement. The caseworker should have then looked at the human rights aspect including children. It is possible that the child was not born at the time of the application - given that in early 2013 the applications I was dealing were were in some
cases a year old so by the time a decision was given in his application as a spouse, the family circumstances were changed and he was also now a father.

I suspect that a new application under the rules for family life as a parent would be successful, and would then put him on the 10 year route to settlement, with leave to remain being granted for an initial 2 and half years. Provided his circumstances did not change, (the relationship with the child was continuing at the time of any future applications) leave would then probably continue to be granted. But until a fresh application (of any kind) is made, he would be liable to commencement of deportation notice.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 12:59 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Those ten year old persons with their library saving agendas & asking questions of current government's Education Minister...

In all seriousness, I've no problems with asking this sort of question at all. None. If the Education Minister doesn't like questions, that Education Minister may resign & find something else to do.
Fair enough. Given the government's Gradgrindery around education, it's not unreasonable to expect them to practise what they preach.

Please excuse my fiery retort. My friends are more important to me than my opinions.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 1:03 pm

MorganLlan wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-30439592

"Man to be deported because wife's salary too low"

I think I mentioned that I worked for a short period last year in the Home Office in family migration. It is now over a year since I left and my recollection is a little hazy. However I am rather surprised that deportation is being mentioned. Just to be clear, I think the new Teresa Kitten Heels legislation of 2012 which requires a higher income for applicants seeking to remain as a spouse or partner are draconian and wrong. But there are other avenues, and caseworkers should look at the other circumstances too.

In this case the applicant has failed under the spouse route as they do not meet the income requirement. The applicant should then go on to look at the case under HRA Article 8 - the right to family life and the right to private life, which is set out in Appendix FM and paragraph 276 of the rules respectively. Even if the applicant fails under appendix FM and the exceptions paragraph (EX1) as a partner (which does not consider income but whether there is a genuine and subsisting relationship with a partner who is British, the caseworker should also go on to consider if the applicant has a parental relationship with a child who is a British citizen.

A simple explanation of the rules with regard to the right to family and private life can be found here.

http://www.novellslegals.co.uk/5-new-po ... les-hc395/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Generally it is accepted that it is not reasonable to expect a child who is a British citizen to leave the UK and deporting the child's father would infringe both his and the child's right to family life.

It is possible that the gentleman has made his application under the spouse rules, and has been refused as he did not meet the spousal income requirement. The caseworker should have then looked at the human rights aspect including children. It is possible that the child was not born at the time of the application - given that in early 2013 the applications I was dealing were were in some
cases a year old so by the time a decision was given in his application as a spouse, the family circumstances were changed and he was also now a father.

I suspect that a new application under the rules for family life as a parent would be successful, and would then put him on the 10 year route to settlement, with leave to remain being granted for an initial 2 and half years. Provided his circumstances did not change, (the relationship with the child was continuing at the time of any future applications) leave would then probably continue to be granted. But until a fresh application (of any kind) is made, he would be liable to commencement of deportation notice.

From the article link -

The couple were told of the immigration tribunal's ruling after they had appealed on the grounds of a right to family life.

Right to family life is no longer sufficient.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 1:04 pm

Generally it is accepted that it is not reasonable to expect a child who is a British citizen to leave the UK and deporting the child's father would infringe both his and the child's right to family life.

It used to be generally accepted. It's not any more.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 1:07 pm

citizenJA wrote:In all seriousness, I've no problems with asking this sort of question at all. None. If the Education Minister doesn't like questions, that Education Minister may resign & find something else to do.

Me neither. This interview, as with the occasion when Osborne ducked a simple multiplication question, shows them up for the limited lightweights they are; Sky News obviously had an agenda (possibly, as I suggested, a bit of Govery) but, if their agenda matched our won in this area, I have no issues with them doing it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 1:09 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Great blog post from Robin Lustig

http://lustigletter.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... en-in.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

osbornes-world-it-hasnt-fallen-in
Fantastic. The last bit is worth quoting directly, if I may:

There is a problem, though, for left-of-centre politicians who care about building a fairer society: most voters aren't keen on being nice to people on benefits. The British Social Attitudes survey reported that more than half the British public believe that most unemployed people could find a job if they really wanted one, and that current benefits levels are too high. Three-quarters believe that "large numbers of people" falsely claim benefits.

So if Ed Miliband started promising to do more for people living in poverty (the word appeared just once in Thursday's speech), it probably wouldn't do him any good at the ballot box. And if he doesn't win next May, he won't be able to do anything at all.

If Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne win, on the other hand, they will be able to continue to construct a world that works perfectly well for them, their families and friends, even if it causes real hardship for millions of their fellow-citizens.

After all, it hasn't fallen in, has it?

Absolutely perfect. Yes.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 1:10 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Generally it is accepted that it is not reasonable to expect a child who is a British citizen to leave the UK and deporting the child's father would infringe both his and the child's right to family life.
It used to be generally accepted. It's not any more.
You're not making this up...

No.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 12 Dec, 2014 1:17 pm

Deleted