TheGrimSqueaker wrote:rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.
So the BBC choose to lead their on the hour headline segment re Miliband's speech on immigration with the line that 'A Labour strategy document advises not to discuss immigration ...'
Predictable I suppose but bloody annoying too. I'd like to know what the context is for such advice ... there can be sound reasons for moving a conversation on which aren't about a desire not to talk about immigration. And - this headline ignores the fact that Miliband and Labour are - in setting out their policies today - doing just that - talking about immigration.
Glad to see these comments:
George Eaton retweeted
Anoosh Chakelian @AnooshChakelian · 46m 46 minutes ago
Embarrassing to have its strategy leaked, but Labour's approach to immigration concerns is ultimately wise:
http://bit.ly/1vQHEO1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 50m 50 minutes ago
As @AnooshChakelian says, Labour advice to move conversations with voters on from immigration if necessary is wise:
http://bit.ly/1vQHEO1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That strategy document is only reinforcing what we've found on the doorstep anyway; despite the best efforts of the meeja immigration isn't the biggest concern for most people so, in my experience anyway, the sensible thing to do is talk past it if mentioned & get to the real heart of their concerns. As per usual lot of Westminster Village fuss about nothing ..... in fact so much fuss you have to wonder what little gem Lynton is trying to cover up this time.
The only time I hear about immigration is when I'm down the pub watching football, and the local pool players (who are unregenerate 'lads' with incredibly loud voices and no sense of when to drop the decibel level below about 105) arse on about it. I actually had one of them - and ManU fan - shake my hand yesterday and tell me he's a Labour voter (he wasn't part of the noise level, as it happens), but the rest of them (who now know I'm a local councillor) can be at best boisterous and at worst quite offensive. One guy was telling me that he paid too much in tax and he was going to vote UKIP. Good luck with that son.
Generally, if you approach people at the door as a Labour canvasser, you'll get a polite version of that person's thoughts. Catch them down the pub after a few beers and you'll find out their visceral feelings. Thankfully, most people, one to one, aren't ignorant and racist, they're simply uninformed (like the supposed UKIP voter above, who doesn't realise his tax bill would go up under UKIP). THe pub I was in yesterday - watching two rubbish teams playing badly against each other - has a landlord who's openly a kipper, but last week when I was in for a quick pint on a very quiet night (ie, just me and him) tried the "but immigration's too high, isn't it?" with me, presumably expecting an argument. I didn't give him one.
What I did was to posit the argument that if all employers obeyed the law, and if job agencies didn't actively seek out workers from countries with very low average wages, then there would be fewer migrant workers, which I presumed was the outcome he sought. I went onto neoliberal economics (kept very basic) and expanded on various other subjects, given that I was in the mood.
At the end, I shut up and looked at him, expecting him to comment. Nothing. But what I will say is that he looked extremely thoughtful as he went round tidying up. He's like most people: he's been fed bullshit most of his life and getting an alternative viewpoint from one of his customers who clearly isn't mad and who apparently can string an argument together is a very unsettling experience for him.
And that's what most people are like. And that's why I don't mind the rowdy lads in the pool team or the rough arsed brickies, chippies and sparks that come in and eff and jeffs the afternoon away - because when one of them asks me out of curiosity what I think and what I believe, usually well away from his mates, then I'll quietly go through my thinking, and because they know me a bit and trust me a bit, they'll listen like they never would at their front door.
And that's how, in the final analysis, you win elections if you're on the left.
