Thursday, 18th December 2014

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 8:28 am

Morning!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 8:39 am

Not something we usually discuss under Daily Politics, but Universities across the UK have woken up this morning to the verdicts of the Research Excellence Framework (REF), which determines how much government funding goes to each Uni for research and generates league tables of research excellence.

Politically, the biggest story seems to be that despite some changes to how research is measured, the traditional Unis still dominate the lists, without the breakthrough from post-1992 Unis that some hoped for.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/n ... 90.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 8:41 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 26579.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

real-junk-food-project-the-leeds-cafe-that-has-fed-10000-people-using-20-tonnes-of-unwanted-food--and-started-a-worldwide-movement

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 8:42 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 31965.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the-great-british-library-betrayal-closures-have-brought-national-network-to-brink-of-absolute-disaster-reveals-official-inquiry

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 8:43 am

Gail retweeted
Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 47m47 minutes ago
I shall be releasing details of more marginal seats polling at 11am. Has the marginal battleground been found. Will tactical voting prevail?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 8:44 am

Mehdi Hasan ‏@mehdirhasan 13m13 minutes ago
I've been a longstanding critic of Obama's foreign policy and sops to the right but his historic move on Cuba must be applauded by the left.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:00 am

The Right Honorable Secretary of State for work & pensions reacts to MPs statements of suicide and hardship of constituents in yesterdays bedroom tax debate. I can't even type his name without feeling sick.

: FotorCreated.jpg (236.78 KiB) Viewed 17211 times

Post by **refitman** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:13 am

Morning all. Conservatives and Labour tied on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 17th December -

Con 33%, (nc)
Lab 33%, (-1)
LD 8%, (+2)
UKIP 14%; (-2)
Grn 7%, (+1)

APP -23 (+1)

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:14 am

Morning all

Have been trying (unsuccessfully) this morning to find the vote record for the Bedroom Tax yesterday...have found lists of MPs for and against, but no breakdown of numbers by party...I'm interested to see whether it is true (as has been stated) that without the Lost Deposits, there would now be no Bedroom Tax - and I know there'll be someone here who can point me in the right direction

Re Cuba...great stuff, really - some grown-up thinking that is increasing Neo-Liberal frothiness...a Cuban exile interviewed on R4 (I know - I'm a Maso-sadist) informed us all that the undemocratic Cuba was 'disgusting' and they should have proper 'democracy' to represent the people - no request from the interviewer to name/indicate a 'well-run' capitalist economy (from anywhere ever) that has represented the majority of citizens...nope...just acceptance that the 'Cuban people have been opressed'. A little later they (possibly R5Live) were discussing the US Govt response to the Sony hack attack (yep - that's right - a meeja company gets threatened with extortion, the White House and assorted blustery 'news' outlets immediately connect the actions with N Korea (as said film, that has been withdrawn, is a p**s-take of Kim Jong Il) and 'government' gets involved in the response on behalf of the commercial entity) - at which point, the grown-up being interviewed responded to the N Korean link with 'well they might say that, but they also said there were WMD in Iraq'

- categorically stating that the attack was extortion and creating confusion for the journo - no matter how many times she tried to get him back to North Korean controlled secret internet servers in (Evo Morales' Marxist-Socialist) Bolivia, he just kept to 'facts'...I'm sure they won't invite him back again

Re question above - the #condemnation timeline is acting like a library again....it seems there were 36 Lost Deposits voting against their own stated position. So it is true - no Lib Dems, no Bedroom Tax.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:20 am

Morning all.

Oborne on fine form. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:22 am

Have we had this before (apols as ever if so!)...

'In Westminster and medialand George Osborne has a reputation as a master political strategist. He might have missed all his economic targets and been booed out of the London Paralympics. But this was the man, it was always said, who would set the traps to sink Labour and deliver a last-minute election turnaround in 2015.

After his autumn statement backfired so spectacularly this month, how can such claims still be taken seriously? It’s not just that he failed to meet his own objectives – on the deficit, debt and growth – while living standards have been continuously cut for the majority, and slashed for the poorest. After such a performance, any continuing talk of a “long-term plan” can only be met with derision.'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_tw

Shame it's not being shouted from the rooftops - deafening a few Deficit-fetishists would be fun

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:22 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 31865.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tory-chairman-grant-shapps-accused-of-trying-to-silence-leftwing-blog-with-spurious-legal-threats

Post by **refitman** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:25 am

Lonewolfie wrote:Morning all

Have been trying (unsuccessfully) this morning to find the vote record for the Bedroom Tax yesterday...have found lists of MPs for and against, but no breakdown of numbers by party...I'm interested to see whether it is true (as has been stated) that without the Lost Deposits, there would now be no Bedroom Tax - and I know there'll be someone here who can point me in the right direction

Re Cuba...great stuff, really - some grown-up thinking that is increasing Neo-Liberal frothiness...a Cuban exile interviewed on R4 (I know - I'm a Maso-sadist) informed us all that the undemocratic Cuba was 'disgusting' and they should have proper 'democracy' to represent the people - no request from the interviewer to name/indicate a 'well-run' capitalist economy (from anywhere ever) that has represented the majority of citizens...nope...just acceptance that the 'Cuban people have been opressed'. A little later they (possibly R5Live) were discussing the US Govt response to the Sony hack attack (yep - that's right - a meeja company gets threatened with extortion, the White House and assorted blustery 'news' outlets immediately connect the actions with N Korea (as said film, that has been withdrawn, is a p**s-take of Kim Jong Il) and 'government' gets involved in the response on behalf of the commercial entity) - at which point, the grown-up being interviewed responded to the N Korean link with 'well they might say that, but they also said there were WMD in Iraq' - categorically stating that the attack was extortion and creating confusion for the journo - no matter how many times she tried to get him back to North Korean controlled secret internet servers in (Evo Morales' Marxist-Socialist) Bolivia, he just kept to 'facts'...I'm sure they won't invite him back again

The Public Whip site will have a breakdown by party, when they list yesterdays votes (they only go up to Tuesday at the mo') http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/divisions.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:31 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 31865.html

tory-chairman-grant-shapps-accused-of-trying-to-silence-leftwing-blog-with-spurious-legal-threats

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:33 am

@Lonewolfie.

Fyi the vote yesterday was not binding,so it didn't make any difference legally the Government would just have ignored it if they had lost.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:36 am

refitman wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:Morning all

Have been trying (unsuccessfully) this morning to find the vote record for the Bedroom Tax yesterday...have found lists of MPs for and against, but no breakdown of numbers by party...I'm interested to see whether it is true (as has been stated) that without the Lost Deposits, there would now be no Bedroom Tax - and I know there'll be someone here who can point me in the right direction

Re Cuba...great stuff, really - some grown-up thinking that is increasing Neo-Liberal frothiness...a Cuban exile interviewed on R4 (I know - I'm a Maso-sadist) informed us all that the undemocratic Cuba was 'disgusting' and they should have proper 'democracy' to represent the people - no request from the interviewer to name/indicate a 'well-run' capitalist economy (from anywhere ever) that has represented the majority of citizens...nope...just acceptance that the 'Cuban people have been opressed'. A little later they (possibly R5Live) were discussing the US Govt response to the Sony hack attack (yep - that's right - a meeja company gets threatened with extortion, the White House and assorted blustery 'news' outlets immediately connect the actions with N Korea (as said film, that has been withdrawn, is a p**s-take of Kim Jong Il) and 'government' gets involved in the response on behalf of the commercial entity) - at which point, the grown-up being interviewed responded to the N Korean link with 'well they might say that, but they also said there were WMD in Iraq' - categorically stating that the attack was extortion and creating confusion for the journo - no matter how many times she tried to get him back to North Korean controlled secret internet servers in (Evo Morales' Marxist-Socialist) Bolivia, he just kept to 'facts'...I'm sure they won't invite him back again
The Public Whip site will have a breakdown by party, when they list yesterdays votes (they only go up to Tuesday at the mo') http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/divisions.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link Refitman - answered myself above as well - apparently 36 Lost Deposits voted against - I'll keep an eye out for the verified result

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:42 am

HindleA wrote:@Lonewolfie.

Fyi the vote yesterday was not binding,so it didn't make any difference legally the Government would just have ignored it if they had lost.

...and thanks, HindleA - I did not know that...still would've been v. embarrassing for them without their little yellow friends

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:52 am

Whew!!!!
I bet you all thought I'd died...

Had a fatal error on the computer. Hadn't used it for a couple of days, and then when I did, it gave up the ghost. No idea what caused it.

I had to wait until I could get a memory gadget. [That cost!]
Plugged it in early yesterday evening, and then was up until 1:30 am getting some of it up and running. Won't be around much today because I have Christmas chores lined up.

Anyway, it's lovely to be back.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:54 am

Well,Andrew George still maintaining it is a Tory policy,given it wouldn't exist without their steadfast support -Webb in particularly sounded more Tory than the Tories to me I think people can make up their own mind up about that,despite their contortions regarding it.

Post by **adam** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:55 am

Andrew Sparrow has posted a link in the comments to a labour whip tweet showing how the lib dems voted here

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:56 am

ohsocynical wrote:Whew!!!!
I bet you all thought I'd died...

Had a fatal error on the computer. Hadn't used it for a couple of days, and then when I did, it gave up the ghost. No idea what caused it.

I had to wait until I could get a memory gadget. [That cost!]
Plugged it in early yesterday evening, and then was up until 1:30 am getting some of it up and running. Won't be around much today because I have Christmas chores lined up.

Anyway, it's lovely to be back.

Lovely to have you back OhSo.
Don't suppose you've had time to bake us any mince pies [where's the little hungry piggy icon ?]

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:58 am

ohsocynical wrote:Whew!!!!
I bet you all thought I'd died...

Had a fatal error on the computer. Hadn't used it for a couple of days, and then when I did, it gave up the ghost. No idea what caused it.

I had to wait until I could get a memory gadget. [That cost!]
Plugged it in early yesterday evening, and then was up until 1:30 am getting some of it up and running. Won't be around much today because I have Christmas chores lined up.

Anyway, it's lovely to be back.

About bloody time!

Good morning, everyone.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:02 am

adam wrote:Andrew Sparrow has posted a link in the comments to a labour whip tweet showing how the lib dems voted here

The Mirror has the same list here http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/be ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The vote was lost by 32 votes, with 35 LibDems voting NO .

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:08 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 31965.html

the-great-british-library-betrayal-closures-have-brought-national-network-to-brink-of-absolute-disaster-reveals-official-inquiry

Its all Labour's fault, though.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:12 am

Hat tip to Tory MP Jeremy LeFroy for his non-politicised contributions yesterday to the Food Bank Debate. However, big boo for voting against the motion, although that might be something to do with the way that Maria Eagle tried to shoehorn the entire Labour manifesto at the end of it.

The party(ies) line for Food Banks seems to be that the reasons for attendance are "Varied and Complex" as that term was used a goodly number of times by the blue and yellow team.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:13 am

Lonewolfie wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 31865.html

tory-chairman-grant-shapps-accused-of-trying-to-silence-leftwing-blog-with-spurious-legal-threats

And if you read the comments under the article, you can see the Streisland Effect in action

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:16 am

yahyah wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Whew!!!!
I bet you all thought I'd died...

Had a fatal error on the computer. Hadn't used it for a couple of days, and then when I did, it gave up the ghost. No idea what caused it.

I had to wait until I could get a memory gadget. [That cost!]
Plugged it in early yesterday evening, and then was up until 1:30 am getting some of it up and running. Won't be around much today because I have Christmas chores lined up.

Anyway, it's lovely to be back.
Lovely to have you back OhSo.
Don't suppose you've had time to bake us any mince pies [where's the little hungry piggy icon ?]

Mince pies are one of my Saturday and Sunday jobs. Because the computer wasn't working I was bored so made a load of shortcrust and sweet shortcrust pastry. Bunged it in the freezer, so goodness knows what it'll be like.
Did the last of the Christmas shopping yesterday, Mr Ohso's knee is so bad, he can barely walk at the moment [Convenient ? Mmmmm] so I had to do countless trips up and down the stairs with the bags. It totally knackered me, and now I'm at the point I'll be glad when it's all over.

I have to do housework today. Can't ignore it any longer.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:19 am

Andrew Sparrow's Christmas greeting from 2012 just as the nesting format was getting off the ground

: ScreenShot03361.jpg (127.38 KiB) Viewed 17082 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:54 am

Bonkers.

80,000 UK students are told they can't train as a nurse: Thousands can't get on courses despite four in five new NHS workers being foreign
Nurses in their 40s who left to start families can't find jobs to return to
It has emerged that it costs NHS £70,000 to train a nurse for three years
But for the same amount it can hire three qualified foreigners
Hospitals recruited almost 6,000 overseas nurses last year
Estimated there are 100,000 applicants a year for 20,000 training places
Government has cut number of places, from 20,829 in 2009/10 to 17,219 in 2012/13 – although it rose last year to 19,206
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... reign.html

Hospitals recruited almost 6,000 overseas nurses last year, a four-fold increase on the previous year.
Four out of five new NHS nurses are foreign, with managers flying to Spain and Portugal to hire up to 50 at a time. Dr Peter Carter, of the Royal College of Nursing, yesterday accused the Government of ‘lamentable workforce planning’.

‘We’ve now got a crisis and we’ve got trusts recruiting from all points of the compass,’ he added.
Dr Sarah Wollaston, the chairman of the Health Select Committee, said it was ‘time to deliver’ the workforce the NHS needs and to give thousands of young Britons a chance.

Not just 'young' Britons Dr Wollaston - some older bods, over 40s, might be worth giving a chance as well! But yes, this is bonkers that we're not training enough people and hiring in from abroad. Plus ending up where agency nurses are providing so much essential cover. What the hell has happened?

Can someone with better understanding of why this is going on .... Ephemerid, Robert Snozers? ... please explain.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 10:55 am

Good to have you back Ohso.

And morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:05 am

Kate Green retweeted
Andrew Copson ‏@andrewcopson 6m6 minutes ago
“@BHAhumanists: Major update: @UKLabour pledge legalise #humanist marriages if returned to power. https://humanism.org.uk/2014/12/18/labo ... s-couples/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …” <breaking news!

Well GOOD!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:41 am

Mehdi Hasan to host new weekly show on Al Jazeera
http://pr.aljazeera.com/post/1055146165 ... al-jazeera
ournalist Mehdi Hasan is to host a new programme on global broadcaster Al Jazeera English. He joins the channel full-time for the weekly show, which will broadcast from Washington DC. Kicking off in 2015, it means he will move to the US from London.

Hasan will go behind the headlines to examine important stories through in-depth, hard-hitting interviews with big-name guests and lively discussions involving experts from across the world. ...

Mehdi Hasan is an award-winning British journalist, broadcaster, author and social commentator. He moves to Al Jazeera from the Huffington Post UK where he was political director. ...

I wonder who will replace him at Huff Post.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:45 am

Ashcroft's latest marginal seat polling has been published ...

Lord Ashcroft: Moderate Tory cheer and a fright for Labour in my final marginals poll for 2014
http://www.conservativehome.com/platfor ... -2014.html

In previous rounds I have said I wanted to find the point in the Conservative-Labour battleground at which seats consistently stay blue and the damage stops. Well, it has not stopped yet, though I suspect Labour will be disappointed not to be inflicting more of it.

In the last few weeks I have polled 1,000 voters in each of the eight seats with Tory majorities over Labour of between 7.1 per cent and 8.1 per cent. On the basis of this snapshot, four of the eight would stay in Conservative hands – Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire, Elmet & Rothwell, Harrow East, Pendle, and Warwick & Leamington (each with swings to Labour of 2.5 per cent or below) – and a fifth, South Swindon, would be a tie. Labour would gain Stevenage with a 5 per cent swing and Ealing Central & Acton with a 7 per cent swing.

and this is his fright for Labour bit:

On the Labour-UKIP battleground I looked at four constituencies in which, according to the Fabian Society’s Revolt On The Left report, Labour are at “critical” or “high” risk of a direct challenge from UKIP: Great Grimsby, Dudley North, Plymouth Moor View and Rother Valley.

I found Labour ahead – just – in all four of these seats. But if the Labour Party is worried about them, it has good reason to be. In three of the seats I found UKIP ahead by up to six points on the standard voting intention question, and they were tied with Labour in Dudley. It was only when people were asked how they would vote in their own constituency that Labour’s lead reasserted itself: six points in Rother Valley, five points in Plymouth Moor View, three points in Dudley North and one point in Great Grimsby. In the seats as a whole the swing to UKIP was 13.5 per cent.

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:47 am

Good Morning
A new IPSOS Mori poll this morning shows the Tories leading Labour (CONS 32% LAB 29%) by 3%. So according to this poll Labour will only get the same % they achieved in 2010 although same poll shows LibDems down by 14% (2010 23%, This Poll 9%). I just don't see it as credible but maybe I'm wrong.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:48 am

More from that Ashcroft marginal polling release:

In the unique constituency of Brighton Pavilion, I found the Green Party ten points ahead, with a four-point swing from Labour. Curiously, a higher proportion of voters here said they would prefer Miliband as PM (45 per cent), and that they wanted to see a Labour government (43 per cent) than in any of the seats where Labour are actually ahead.

Again, the ground campaign looks closely fought, with 27 per cent saying they had heard locally from the Greens and 26 per cent saying they had heard from Labour.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:57 am

rearofthestore wrote:Good Morning
A new IPSOS Mori poll this morning shows the Tories leading Labour (CONS 32% LAB 29%) by 3%. So according to this poll Labour will only get the same % they achieved in 2010 although same poll shows LibDems down by 14% (2010 23%, This Poll 9%). I just don't see it as credible but maybe I'm wrong.

What's Ukip doing on that poll?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 11:59 am

Jamie Reed ‏@jreedmp 6m6 minutes ago
Anyone up for a 'Twelve Daves of Christmas' tweet-a-long later?
#davemas

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:04 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:Good Morning
A new IPSOS Mori poll this morning shows the Tories leading Labour (CONS 32% LAB 29%) by 3%. So according to this poll Labour will only get the same % they achieved in 2010 although same poll shows LibDems down by 14% (2010 23%, This Poll 9%). I just don't see it as credible but maybe I'm wrong.
What's Ukip doing on that poll?

UKIP are only on 13% but Greens are on 9%.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:12 pm

rearofthestore wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:Good Morning
A new IPSOS Mori poll this morning shows the Tories leading Labour (CONS 32% LAB 29%) by 3%. So according to this poll Labour will only get the same % they achieved in 2010 although same poll shows LibDems down by 14% (2010 23%, This Poll 9%). I just don't see it as credible but maybe I'm wrong.
What's Ukip doing on that poll?
UKIP are only on 13% but Greens are on 9%.

Hmmmm. The polls really are all over the place aren't they. As Smithson said we've got two polls on the same day - one with a 5% lead for Labour and one with Conservatives 3% ahead.

And elsewhere I see Farage's leader approval ratings have plunged since all the expenses, racist, homophobic goings on .... I wonder when that IPSOS Mori poll was done?

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:19 pm

A lot of hysteria from the right today about the US/Cuba diplomatic agreement. Owen Jones joining in claiming that embargoed and threatened Cuba is a 'dictatorship'. Funny dictatorship that is run by mass participation and non-party elections.

Never mind. It is a dictatorship because corrupt western governments say it is and 'left-wingers' currying favour will fall into line. Fuck 'em. I support the Cuban people and their government - it's not a dictatorship, it is a country living under permanent threat from the world hyperpower and subjected to regular economic, political and military attack, including from state sponsored terrorism.

What the right want, and won't get, is multi-party elections that they can fund and corrupt. The Cuban people aren't that stupid and have learnt enough these last fifty years not to be bought by their enemies.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:22 pm

Angela Eagle ‏@angelaeagle 17m17 minutes ago
UKIP nativity play: the 3 wise men have been sent back where they came from & they've told the Virgin Mary to stop breast feeding in public

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:23 pm

Morning Star's view:

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-74 ... ban-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:24 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: What's Ukip doing on that poll?
UKIP are only on 13% but Greens are on 9%.
Hmmmm. The polls really are all over the place aren't they. As Smithson said we've got two polls on the same day - one with a 5% lead for Labour and one with Conservatives 3% ahead.

And elsewhere I see Farage's leader approval ratings have plunged since all the expenses, racist, homophobic goings on .... I wonder when that IPSOS Mori poll was done?

Fieldwork was 13th to 15th December.

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:27 pm

rearofthestore wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
rearofthestore wrote: UKIP are only on 13% but Greens are on 9%.
Hmmmm. The polls really are all over the place aren't they. As Smithson said we've got two polls on the same day - one with a 5% lead for Labour and one with Conservatives 3% ahead.

And elsewhere I see Farage's leader approval ratings have plunged since all the expenses, racist, homophobic goings on .... I wonder when that IPSOS Mori poll was done?

Fieldwork was 13th to 15th December.
Edited to add Sample is 1012 and unweighted result was LAB 32% CON 30%

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:28 pm

Comment of the day on AS politics blog .... which today features .... drum roll ...... Call Clegg. (Yes really - I know, take it up with him and the G).

P_R_Proudhon 2h ago
I would rather talk to my dogs arse and if she chose to respond by farting at me then I would find this more acceptable than listen to the puerile yet polished responses from this sham of a man, good riddance at the next election, arse.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:30 pm

rearofthestore wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Hmmmm. The polls really are all over the place aren't they. As Smithson said we've got two polls on the same day - one with a 5% lead for Labour and one with Conservatives 3% ahead.

And elsewhere I see Farage's leader approval ratings have plunged since all the expenses, racist, homophobic goings on .... I wonder when that IPSOS Mori poll was done?
Fieldwork was 13th to 15th December.
Edited to add Sample is 1012 and unweighted result was LAB 32% CON 30%

I see Smithson has tweeted that the IPSOS fieldwork was done before Osborne's Autumn Statement ...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:34 pm

Labour Press Statement

Badger culls have failed for a second year - Maria Eagle

Maria Eagle MP, Labour’s Shadow Environment Secretary, responding to today’s Written Ministerial Statement on Bovine TB, said:

“It is appalling that these badger culls went ahead for a second year when they had already been described by David Macdonald the chief scientific advisor to Natural England as an ‘epic failure’.

“The target set in Gloucestershire has been spectacularly missed whilst the Somerset target was only narrowly reached meaning that if anything these culls will make the problem of bovine TB worse.

“The Government must today commit to abandoning any attempt to continue these unscientific, inhumane and ineffective badger culls. They must instead work with scientists, wildlife groups and farmers to develop an alternative strategy to get the problem of Bovine TB under control.”

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:39 pm

mikems wrote:A lot of hysteria from the right today about the US/Cuba diplomatic agreement. Owen Jones joining in claiming that embargoed and threatened Cuba is a 'dictatorship'. Funny dictatorship that is run by mass participation and non-party elections.

Never mind. It is a dictatorship because corrupt western governments say it is and 'left-wingers' currying favour will fall into line. Fuck 'em. I support the Cuban people and their government - it's not a dictatorship, it is a country living under permanent threat from the world hyperpower and subjected to regular economic, political and military attack, including from state sponsored terrorism.

What the right want, and won't get, is multi-party elections that they can fund and corrupt. The Cuban people aren't that stupid and have learnt enough these last fifty years not to be bought by their enemies.

Blimey, isn't Saint Owen a bit off message there? What happened to solidarity and all that?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:45 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:
Fieldwork was 13th to 15th December.
Edited to add Sample is 1012 and unweighted result was LAB 32% CON 30%
I see Smithson has tweeted that the IPSOS fieldwork was done before Osborne's Autumn Statement ...

No, that's the latest Ashcroft marginal polling.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 12:46 pm

Government admits badger cull could fail to reduce bovine TB
Controversial cull will continue despite government admitting for the first time that the Gloucestershire cull may prove unsuccessful due to low number of badgers killed
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -bovine-tb

Despicable and every other word that applies to describe such a blatant misuse of public funds and power to pursue futile bloody slaughter of wildlife .... because they can.

Meanwhile - other things that have been going on in the badger cull world ... includes leaking of British Veterinary Association documents which show their concern over the lack of transparency from government and qualms over continuing to support culling when independent monitoring and assessment has been withdrawn - and the government have not released key information and analysis on humaneness etc.

You would think, wouldn't you, that the admission that this culling may not do anything to reduce bovine TB (it won't, it has failed to observe almost every scientific requirement to achieve even the tiny reduction that might be possible) - plus the concerns about the humaneness and basic monitoring would make the BVA withdraw support. I'm not holding my breath. Well part of the Establishment that must continue at all costs, no matter what.