Saturday 22nd & Sunday 23rd April 2023

Post by **refitman** » Sat 22 Apr, 2023 9:48 am

Morning all.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 22 Apr, 2023 12:18 pm

RIP Barry Humphries.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 22 Apr, 2023 1:55 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sat 22 Apr, 2023 12:18 pm RIP Barry Humphries.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 22 Apr, 2023 5:35 pm

In Ireland's Eurovision extravaganza, four men in sequinned masks remake this Mike Flowers video in black-and-white to accompany a cover of a U2 track.

Clanger rating:
Was it fun: if it had been Mike Flowers doing a U2 cover it might have been
Was it dancey: it was a U2 track
What would Terry have said about it: Terry would have been faced with quite a dilemma. Let's see how Mr Norton deals with it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 22 Apr, 2023 6:02 pm

Mr Wogan certainly wasn't shy of criticising his native land's offerings when appropriate IIRC.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 22 Apr, 2023 11:53 pm

This didn't stop Chris Mason brown-nosong him , as though he was not a disgraced former minister

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 8:03 am

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 8:25 am

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628226

Debate 4.30 TOMORROW , shame I hadn't seen it before !

Westminster Hall debate: e-petition 628226, relating to the impact of the UK's exit from the European Union

Martyn Day MP (Linlithgow and East Falkirk, Scottish National Party)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 8:37 am

So Labour wouldn't reverse anything - even if voters demanded it?
Am honestly not sure who Labour are the party of any more (sorry AK, nothing personal, it's just hard to see where their policies align with my values these days.).
As ever, am willing to persuaded.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 10:08 am

AK thinks that Labour will come round to closer ties to the EU and higher public spending on the NHS etc because, unlike the tories in la la land, they'll inhabit the real world.

I hope that's fair comment, AK.

Many of us think that they'd get more votes if they made the move now rather than set us up for another 2 years of misery after the next GE, before they finally get the message.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 10:11 am

OTOH, a whacking Labour majority would eliminate even the tiniest possibility of electoral reform, so

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 11:11 am

Your last point there may be a fair one.

Anyway, this morning we are all talking about Diane Abbott - seriously, WTAF?

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 11:16 am

Just a reminder that they're testing the emergency alert system today

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 11:43 am

Labour MP Diane Abbott has tweeted that she withdraws remarks she made which were printed in the Observer letters page, regarding racism. In the letter, Abbott had sought to make a distinction between what she described as the “prejudice” that some white groups including Jewish, Irish and Travellors experience, and the “racism” that impacts on Black people.

In her statement on Twitter, Abbot said:

I am writing regarding my letter that was recently published in the Observer.

I wish to wholly and unreservedly withdraw my remarks and disassociate myself from them.

The errors arose in an initial draft being sent. But there is no excuse, and I wish to apologise for any anguish caused.

Racism takes many forms, and it is completely undeniable that Jewish people have suffered its monstrous effects, as have Irish people, Travellors and many others.

Once again, I would like to apologise publicly for the remarks and any distress caused as a result of them.

WTAF is all you can say, really.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 1:25 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 11:16 am Just a reminder that they're testing the emergency alert system today

Remember when the Fred's weren't insane?

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 1:36 pm

I'm sure these events are entirely unconnected

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 1:44 pm

Oh god what's Diane said this time?

*has a read of her letter*

What the fuck Diane? What is wrong with you?

So let me get this straight, when people put up signs saying 'no dogs, no blacks, no Irish' they were being racist towards black people but only prejudiced against the Irish? Ok, if you say so.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:00 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 1:44 pm Oh god what's Diane said this time?

*has a read of her letter*

What the fuck Diane? What is wrong with you?

So let me get this straight, when people put up signs saying 'no dogs, no blacks, no Irish' they were being racist towards black people but only prejudiced against the Irish? Ok, if you say so.

She's had the whip removed.

Just so we're clear, apologising for saying some (possibly) clumsy, racist stuff results in the Whip going, but being an outright transphobe who works with a fundamentalist, anti-abortion Tory is fine (Duffield). Being outright racist (Angela "funny tinge" Smith) is ok. Actually doing A-S is not a problem (Barry Sheerman).

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:05 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote: ↑Sat 22 Apr, 2023 5:35 pm In Ireland's Eurovision extravaganza, four men in sequinned masks remake this Mike Flowers video in black-and-white to accompany a cover of a U2 track.

They should really have thought more about their costumes because for those of us of a certain age there's still something deeply sinister about masked Irishmen (even with sequins) and before anyone says anything according to Diane Abbot I'm not being racist.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:20 pm

In other news, Spurs are a rabble.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:20 pm

We all know why the Labour leadership feels it can't move against Duffield, and no its not because (mostly, anyway) they actually agree with what she says.

And in the judgement of many (including lots on the Labour left) Abbott was more than just "clumsy". She was offensive and ignorant.

(its also, FWIW, a very *American* way of viewing racism - and no that is not meant as a compliment)

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:28 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:00 pm Just so we're clear, apologising for saying some (possibly) clumsy, racist stuff results in the Whip going.

There's no 'possibly' about it. What she said was profoundly distasteful, idiotic, and makes absolutely no sense even if you accept the criteria for racism she uses herself. I actually like Diane Abbot and have admired her in the past but there's no coming back from this and it's a truly sad way for her political career to end.

As for the double standards you raise, you make a fair point, I find Rosie Duffield appalling in every respect, but despite her nauseating, self seeking arseholery she has thus far failed to throw a live hand grenade into her own face which is what Diane has just done.

Edit: Missed out an entire word, presumably as a result of shock after seeing Gilsey's post and checking the Newcastle v Spurs score.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:40 pm

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:51 pm

Jesus, the replies under this. Some people have absolutely no self-awareness (particularly those with flags in their names)

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:55 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:20 pm We all know why the Labour leadership feels it can't move against Duffield, and no its not because (mostly, anyway) they actually agree with what she says.

And in the judgement of many (including lots on the Labour left) Abbott was more than just "clumsy". She was offensive and ignorant.

(its also, FWIW, a very *American* way of viewing racism - and no that is not meant as a compliment)

Why is that, exactly? Got to keep the bigots on side?

I find it absolutely baffling that you repeatedly hand-wave horrendous bigotry - that is having an actual, physical affect on people's lives.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 3:13 pm

Oh yeah, let's not forget that Duffield endorsed Holocaust denial. But that's okay though.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 3:15 pm

I thought I'd missed out on the alert but then it went off 10 minutes late. Not much use for a nuclear war then.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 3:21 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 3:13 pm Oh yeah, let's not forget that Duffield endorsed Holocaust denial. But that's okay though.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 3:24 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:55 pm
AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 2:20 pm We all know why the Labour leadership feels it can't move against Duffield, and no its not because (mostly, anyway) they actually agree with what she says.

And in the judgement of many (including lots on the Labour left) Abbott was more than just "clumsy". She was offensive and ignorant.

(its also, FWIW, a very *American* way of viewing racism - and no that is not meant as a compliment)
Why is that, exactly? Got to keep the bigots on side?

I find it absolutely baffling that you repeatedly hand-wave horrendous bigotry - that is having an actual, physical affect on people's lives.

Because if they do so, the likes of Hadley Freeman and Sonia Sodha will ensure their captive MSM carries nothing more than "DOES LABOUR HATE WOMEN AND LOVE RAPISTS??" pieces for the next few months. That is why even under Corbyn, the party treated this issue with caution and did relatively little to draw attention to its formally pro-trans rights positions. The best hope for getting rid of Duffield is just before a GE, which maximises the chances it could be drowned out by other issues despite the best efforts of the above.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 3:38 pm

Cool. God forbid the party that's meant to stand for people's rights actually do anything.

There is a clear hierarchy of abuse tolerance in the Labour Party. If you're Muslim* or trans, you're fair game, if you're left-wing and Jewish, you get thrown out the party, if you're on the right and Jewish, you're protected to the fullest extent of the Party machine.

*See everything that Apsana Begum has gone through, Peter Kyle being allowed to just apologise after calling Humza Yousaf "Mohammed"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 4:05 pm

I am just telling you what will happen, you may think that a price worth paying but - especially given what is at stake - others are going to disagree.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 4:09 pm

I just find it absolutely laughable that you think Labour will actually change, once they're in power.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 4:38 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 4:09 pm I just find it absolutely laughable that you think Labour will actually change, once they're in power.

Unless you're taking Starmer reneging on ALL his leadership pledges, as hope that he'll change his mind again.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 4:59 pm

Utter clown shoes. The crane is Clydport and the street is Glasgow

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 7:05 pm

The problem with the contretemps above is you're both right. Refitman is right that there are obvious double standards that stink to high heaven and AK is right that from a pragmatic point of view sometimes you just have to suck these things up in the cause of political expediency.

Lenin said there was no morality in politics, only expediency, while Rousseau said that if you treat morality and politics separately you'll never understand either of them.

Which I guess would make AK a Revolutionary Marxist and Refitman an Enlightenment Liberal.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 9:25 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 7:05 pm Which I guess would make AK a Revolutionary Marxist and Refitman an Enlightenment Liberal.

You take that back, or we're gonna have words

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 10:03 pm

I thought You'd like it

.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 11:08 pm

Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call New Orleans

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1095217/

I'm guessing some of you will have seen this one but I hadn't watched it in years so decided it was time for another viewing. If you haven't be warned there will be many spoilers.

Abel Ferrara's excellent original with Harvey Keitel was grim and disturbing, whereas this is anything but, yet it's still a work of genius. Herzog has taken a couple of plot points and discarded the rest. Instead of a terrifying Keitel we have an increasingly crazed Cage hamming it up with some surreal reptilian imagery for good measure.

It should in truth have been titled 'Bad back Lieutenant' because at the beginning Cage injures his back saving a drowning prisoner, resulting in him ending up on prescription opioid painkillers, which in turn leads him to consume vast quantities of whatever other drugs he can get his hands on. This does in fact happen in real life. I watched a thing on CH4 about a bloke who injured his back in the army and ended up robbing banks for the same reason. If you're already addicted to oxycontin it's only a small jump to heroin. Anyway Cage ends up leading a murder investigation while completely off his face, not sleeping for days, racking up gambling debts and dealing with his high class hooker girlfriend. As you can imagine this gets him into all sorts of bother and leads him to do some questionable things like threatening old ladies with the magnum (a gun not an ice lolly) he has permanently stuffed in the waist of his trousers, shaking down teens outside a club for their drugs then having sex with the girlfriend while making the boyfriend watch, and trying to blackmail an American football player to throw a game to solve his gambling debt problems. Oh yeah and he joins the gang who committed the murder.

That all sounds like he's gone horribly off the rails but Herzog is careful to always leave a little space for you to think that despite all these crazy bad things he's doing he's still a good guy doing them for the right reason and so it comes to pass. While Keitel paid for his sins amongst a load of Catholic angst, Nicolas Cage totally gets away with it all while hallucinating iguanas.

On the Cageometer? What's not to like? Werner Herzog, Nic Cage going crazy, the always splendid Brad Dourif, Val Kilmer looking like he's eaten about 5000 burgers, and even Jennifer Coolidge as Cage's drunk mother in law.

It has to be 5 stars out of 5 or the maximum of whatever scale I was previously using. It's wonderful.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 23 Apr, 2023 11:24 pm

If I remember correctly, Herzog had never seen the original film and had only heard the general plot outline, before making his version.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 24 Apr, 2023 12:02 am

refitman wrote: ↑Sun 23 Apr, 2023 11:24 pm If I remember correctly, Herzog had never seen the original film and had only heard the general plot outline, before making his version.

Even as an admirer of his it can't be denied Herzog has been a prolific fibber over the years. Or perhaps embellisher of truth would be a more charitable way of putting it.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 24 Apr, 2023 12:38 am

Me - where I was once ejected from a medieval banquet by men in tights

TC2 - Rarely have I seen such a shocking display of blatant showing off.

Believe it or not it was actually decidedly unpleasant. A few of us had been to a gig with a bloke who's wife was at the medieval banquet so he said he'd get us in afterwards. Which he did then immediately buggered off leaving the three of us at the bar on our own exposed in contemporary clothing. This immediately attracted a couple of dickheads in doublets who took exception to our modern garb who began demanding to know if we were invited. I attempted to explain the situation but being a bit drunk couldn't quite remember the name of either the bloke or his wife which obviously did our cause no good whatsoever and then this guy starts shoving me. Next thing I know he's somehow been thrown over a table and other men in tights are closing in on us and an actual punch up occurs as we beat a retreat. Once outside I advocate throwing bricks through the windows before being dragged away and being told it was all my fault.

Edit: Repetition, which I believe is a Radio 4 thing.
Edit 2: Throwing bricks through widows is not something I would encourage.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 24 Apr, 2023 1:11 am

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 24 Apr, 2023 2:07 am

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 24 Apr, 2023 2:50 am

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 24 Apr, 2023 2:51 am