Monday 22nd December 2014

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:07 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Pamela Nash MP retweeted
euan mccolm ‏@euanmccolm 13m13 minutes ago
jim murphy, who ran in to the clutha to help, is receiving some vile abuse for daring to express concern about today's tragedy in glasgow.
What is the matter with these people?

Some of them are criticising him for helping out at the Clutha Bar, it was all about glory hunting & not simple humanity apparently. These people have lost all sense of perspective, just warped with bitterness.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:10 pm

There's a piece up on Lib Dem Voice entitled ''Are Lib Dems normal?''

Rebecca, that' gorgeous, not surprised it got to you a bit..

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:13 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Pamela Nash MP retweeted
euan mccolm ‏@euanmccolm 13m13 minutes ago
jim murphy, who ran in to the clutha to help, is receiving some vile abuse for daring to express concern about today's tragedy in glasgow.
What is the matter with these people?
Some of them are criticising him for helping out at the Clutha Bar, it was all about glory hunting & not simple humanity apparently. These people have lost all sense of perspective, just warped with bitterness.

Bunch of wankers who will never be happy, part of me wishes they had effed off and their extra money was fairly shared out, there's poverty all over, but no one whinges quite like a bitter Nationalist.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:14 pm

Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 2m2 minutes ago Hammersmith, London
Labour pledges to legalise humanist marriage - as Cameron withdraws Tory support to pander to his right-wing https://humanism.org.uk/2014/12/18/labo ... s-couples/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I'll have to let Mr Riots know it might be back on!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:16 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Am I alone in looking at this and thinking 'these are absolute must not haves' ... who the hell thinks these things up? Or am I just hopelessly far away from the rest of supposedly normal society?

Daily Mail Must Haves For This Christmas.jpg
The 'personalised Nutella jar' beggars belief.
No, no, calm down, calm down. These are must haves for Daily Mail readers. It has nothing to do with supposedly normal society at all.
Thank you. That's very helpful. I was about to ask Mr Riots to buy me the 'Carvela leopard print pony leather heels' - and trying to convince him they are absolute must haves for the daily walk down the rutted and pot holed track to the postbox was going to be a difficult conversation.

(my bold)

<tea splattered on monitor & keyboard>

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:16 pm

: B5NWPo_CMAAyP4J.jpg (69.51 KiB) Viewed 13968 times

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:18 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Iain Dale @IainDale · 7h 7 hours ago
New Blog by me: General Election Predictions 4: Cambridgeshire: This is the fourth in a series of blogposts (s... http://bit.ly/1vg5gN2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He's giving Cambridge as a narrow Labour gain ... despite Julian Huppert's popularity and incumbency.

He's saying Peterborough will stay Conservative - shame, it looks as though it's worth a real scrap for.
I still reckon its all to play for in Peterborough, and I think Cambridge will be a lot more decisive than Dale thinks, they've interesting enough reads but he's starting off with the easy ones, Essex, Suffolk and so on, I'm waiting for the Midlands and parts of Yorkshire, plenty of meat on the bones for Labour in those areas.

Parts of Peterborough are natural Kipper territory, as evidenced by them taking three seats of the Tories in the local elections; but, more significantly, Labour took one off them too. And Lisa Forbes might not be a born Peterborian but she has lived there for over twenty years & served as a councillor for the past 2 years; unlike Jackson, who was parachuted in in 2001 (when he failed to beat Brinton/Clark) she knows the area, she knows the people and she knows the issues ..... and more importantly, the people know her and can see a track record. Personally I reckon Jackson is dead meat!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:20 pm

Toby Latimer wrote:
B5NWPo_CMAAyP4J.jpg

What on earth did he need wet wipes for? No, don't actually tell me, please.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:20 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: What is the matter with these people?
Some of them are criticising him for helping out at the Clutha Bar, it was all about glory hunting & not simple humanity apparently. These people have lost all sense of perspective, just warped with bitterness.
Bunch of wankers who will never be happy, part of me wishes they had fucked off and their extra money was fairly shared out, there's poverty all over, but no one whinges quite like a bitter Nationalist.

Thankfully the cybernats are not typical of all Scots, they just make a lot more noise. That, at least, they do share with the Kippers.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:23 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: He's giving Cambridge as a narrow Labour gain ... despite Julian Huppert's popularity and incumbency.

He's saying Peterborough will stay Conservative - shame, it looks as though it's worth a real scrap for.
I still reckon its all to play for in Peterborough, and I think Cambridge will be a lot more decisive than Dale thinks, they've interesting enough reads but he's starting off with the easy ones, Essex, Suffolk and so on, I'm waiting for the Midlands and parts of Yorkshire, plenty of meat on the bones for Labour in those areas.
Parts of Peterborough are natural Kipper territory, as evidenced by them taking three seats of the Tories in the local elections; but, more significantly, Labour took one off them too. And Lisa Forbes might not be a born Peterborian but she has lived there for over twenty years & served as a councillor for the past 2 years; unlike Jackson, who was parachuted in in 2001 (when he failed to beat Brinton/Clark) she knows the area, she knows the people and she knows the issues ..... and more importantly, the people know her and can see a track record. Personally I reckon Jackson is dead meat!

Sounds good. Can't help thinking Giselle97 would have something to say about Dale's Peterborough prediction if she was here now... and I think Jackson would definitely be dead meat in her book.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:29 pm

Just caught up with the Westminster hour podcast reviewing 2014.
Isobel Hardman, Charles Walker (1922 committee), John Woodcock (Progress) featured.
Amazingly, Cameron had a good year (capped by his superb conference speech) and Miliband forgot the deficit and has a poor year, but Labour have no one else so they'll have to stick with him.

Bloody leftie BBC.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:33 pm

Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 45m45 minutes ago Hammersmith, London
.@StephenCowan on today's @BBC You &Yours - how Labour used Tory propaganda spend to abolish home care charges http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vdnbv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

They managed to find a £500,000 saving by getting rid of all the unnecessary publicity, PR etc ... good on em.

and more good news from the now Labour run Hammersmith & Fulham

Andy Slaughter MP retweeted
Max Schmid ‏@maxwellschmid Dec 14
Parking charges frozen by H&F Labour---@HFConsCllrs had plotted in secret to put them up 14.7% after election. http://www.thecowanreport.com/2014/12/h ... g.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Andy Slaughter MP retweeted
Sue Macmillan ‏@suemacmillan Dec 18
Delighted to announce today that Hammersmith & Fulham Council will pick up the bill for Foster Carers' Council Tax. http://bit.ly/1v3cHXJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:36 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: What is the matter with these people?
Some of them are criticising him for helping out at the Clutha Bar, it was all about glory hunting & not simple humanity apparently. These people have lost all sense of perspective, just warped with bitterness.
Bunch of wankers who will never be happy, part of me wishes they had effed off and their extra money was fairly shared out, there's poverty all over, but no one whinges quite like a bitter Nationalist.

I don't know enough to comment - I literally don't know enough about Scottish Nationalism. I don't even know if I've used an appropriate couple of words 1) Scottish 2) Nationalism.

I value the opinions of my friends here.

I will say, I'm horrified at those people vilifying Murphy for doing nothing more than providing an assist.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:50 pm

The blog report by the new leader of H & F council is a good read. http://www.thecowanreport.com/2014/12/h ... g.html?m=1

... The next week a senior H&F Council official shuffled into my office and asked me to enact a policy that H&F Conservatives had planned for immediately after the election: “The former administration may or may not…” He advised while trying to muster what looked like a wink “…have been about to introduce a 14.7% increase in parking charges. If you do it now, it will raise three quarters of a million pounds for the rest of this year and one and a half million more pounds for each year thereafter” he concluded. “Are you trying to turn me into Nick Clegg?” I asked. The official went on to explain that my Labour colleagues and I had promised in our manifesto that we would stick within H&F Conservatives’ planned spending forecasts and that this hike would raise vital sums that would allow us to do that. We did not take the official's advice despite being lobbied to do so by him and others over the following days. Instead, we went and found over £4 million pounds of wasted spend, such as on PR and propaganda, which we cut in a mini-budget we held in June...

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 7:51 pm

Don't quite get it why Andy Burnham was brought into the arse end of this editorial, an opportunistic Shadow Minister, waiting for the next opportunity to pounce at Hunt? If that's the case isn't that his job?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... p-plotting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:00 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Owen Jones talks some rubbish sometimes.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... yriza-poll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here in Britain, Syriza already represents a warning to Labour. The explosion in Syriza’s popularity has everything to do with Labour’s sister party in Greece, Pasok, coming to power and unleashing austerity on its own supporters. The consequence? Pasok is now on about 5% in the opinion polls. In Britain, some polls already have the Greens on up to 9%, and that’s before a Labour government that implements cuts has assumed power.
Bit of a difference in degree, and the fact the UK has its own currency possibly relevant here?

Correct, his article briefly touches upon that but this crucial bit isn't developed within Jones' article.

Those on the party’s left look to the likes of Costas Lapavitsas, an economics professor at London’s School of Oriental and African Studies, who believes its programme is impossible within the confines of monetary union.

A pity, because it's absolutely central - a country without control of their currency doesn't have as much control over its economy.

I found this part stirring, it reminded me of policies I'm familiar with...

Syriza’s manifesto proposes that repayment of debt could come through economic growth, rather than from budget cuts. It wants a European new deal backed up by an investment bank; an all-out war against the tax avoidance endemic in Greek society; an emergency employment programme; a raised minimum wage; and the restoration of collective bargaining. [...] Syriza wants the EU to abandon crippling austerity policies in favour of quantitative easing and a growth-led recovery.

These policies remind me of those currently coming from the UK Labour party, Mr. Jones.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:01 pm

80,000 Face Benefit Sanctions Misery This Christmas – Including 6,800 Disabled People
http://www.welfareweekly.com/80000-unem ... ed-people/

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:05 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Don't quite get it why Andy Burnham was brought into the arse end of this editorial, an opportunistic Shadow Minister, waiting for the next opportunity to pounce at Hunt? If that's the case isn't that his job?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... p-plotting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I suspect it is a not so sly attempt to paint Burnham as an aspirant Labour leader just waiting for Miliband to stumble; typical bit of Guardian deceased equine flagellation.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:08 pm

danesclose wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Joe Cocker has died after a battle with lung cancer
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update ... ng-cancer/
Sad news.

[youtube]4RnjWLVyMps[/youtube]

Sad to hear of this. One of my best all time memories is sitting in a cinema in Colombo with my soon to be sister-in-law watching Woodstock, and everyone spontaneously singing along to With a little help from my friends, and suddenly we were all on our feet and dancing. The only act yo have that effect! I was already living pretty much full time with her family, and thereafter we would often stop in the middle of doing housework when this song came on the radio and 'do' a Joe, hands and all, and fall about laughing happily afterwards. Radio and cinema were a major part of our lives because it was still pre-TV in that part of the world.

My two marriages went the way of all things, but in seven weeks time and after over 35 years I will be staying with this best of all friends, our friendship has survived everything, and somehow Joe played a part in that. RIP Joe, you spread a lot of love in your own unique way.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:10 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Don't quite get it why Andy Burnham was brought into the arse end of this editorial, an opportunistic Shadow Minister, waiting for the next opportunity to pounce at Hunt? If that's the case isn't that his job?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... p-plotting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes...an article entitled...

The Guardian view on Tory leadership plotting
In the end, aspirants to David Cameron’s job will have to get on the election team

...a perfunctory, failed hit at someone who's not a Tory.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:22 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/we ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not very subtle this, think I will be an old woman before anyone is ever named though, and then the alleged perpetrators will be dead.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:32 pm

James O'Brien was very good on Exaro News' latest revelations re the dossier John Mann has delivered on politicians' involvement in Child Abuse in the first hour of Jo'B's LBC programme this morning. Sorry I can't link to it as am struggling with mobile Internet. Worth looking for and listening to, though. His second hour was equally strong on the ambulance service.

In other news, BBC are reporting that all four Internet networks are completely down in North Korea...

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:41 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:James O'Brien was very good on Exaro News' latest revelations re the dossier John Mann has delivered on politicians' involvement in Child Abuse in the first hour of Jo'B's LBC programme this morning. Sorry I can't link to it as am struggling with mobile Internet. Worth looking for and listening to, though. His second hour was equally strong on the ambulance service.

In other news, BBC are reporting that all four Internet networks are completely down in North Korea...

I heard it was good, as he always is, in a ideal world he would have been on newsnight instead of the god awful fawning Evan Davis..

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:44 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:James O'Brien was very good on Exaro News' latest revelations re the dossier John Mann has delivered on politicians' involvement in Child Abuse in the first hour of Jo'B's LBC programme this morning. Sorry I can't link to it as am struggling with mobile Internet. Worth looking for and listening to, though. His second hour was equally strong on the ambulance service.

In other news, BBC are reporting that all four Internet networks are completely down in North Korea...

I heard it was good, as he always is, in a ideal world he would have been on newsnight instead of the god awful fawning Evan Davis..

Fawning and squirming - he's perpetually squirming around on his chair.

Editing to add: My idea of hell - Kuenssberg and Davis together - talking out of synch.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 8:47 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:In other news, BBC are reporting that all four Internet networks are completely down in North Korea...

Are the North Koreans okay? Has anyone checked?

diGriz · Post by **diGriz** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 9:33 pm

citizenJA wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:In other news, BBC are reporting that all four Internet networks are completely down in North Korea...
Are the North Koreans okay? Has anyone checked?

Better still the US should stream The Interview on all of their PCs.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 9:47 pm

Not sure we've done this. I'm pleased to see NHA much more focused now. There could be some interesting tactical voting in these constituencies!

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:12 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ation.html

Both parties? Really Frank!?!
Sometimes I really wish they'd 'withdraw the whip' from that bloody man! Grrr!

Wrong. Fucking. Party.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:14 pm

diGriz wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:In other news, BBC are reporting that all four Internet networks are completely down in North Korea...
Are the North Koreans okay? Has anyone checked?
Better still the US should stream The Interview on all of their PCs.

I couldn't resist.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:22 pm

Spacedone wrote:
diGriz wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Are the North Koreans okay? Has anyone checked?
Better still the US should stream The Interview on all of their PCs.
I couldn't resist.

the G has a story up with the title something like

'North Korea angry with US over film plot'

Fine. Let's keep aggression fictional. We'll all live longer & healthier lives.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:24 pm

Who saying earlier about police numbers being slashed, believe it was you Spacedone?

Say this about this government, they believe in sucking off as many as possible..

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:33 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Who saying earlier about police numbers being slashed, believe it was you Spacedone?

Say this about this government, they believe in sucking off as many as possible..

I don't think that was me... unless I've completely forgotten posting it due to excessive amounts of Christmas cheer.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:36 pm

citizenJA wrote:the G has a story up with the title something like

'North Korea angry with US over film plot'

Fine. Let's keep aggression fictional. We'll all live longer & healthier lives.

To be fair to North Korea I had a similar reaction over the plot of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:36 pm

Mr Ohso's been doing me proud. Father Christmas again this year, and cracking me up with the stories about the youngsters who come to see him.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:38 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Who saying earlier about police numbers being slashed, believe it was you Spacedone?

Say this about this government, they believe in sucking off as many as possible..

Danesclose. Mentioned falling murders in London as a possible justification.

Post by **adam** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:38 pm

Spacedone wrote:
citizenJA wrote:the G has a story up with the title something like

'North Korea angry with US over film plot'

Fine. Let's keep aggression fictional. We'll all live longer & healthier lives.
To be fair to North Korea I had a similar reaction over the plot of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls.

Although to be honest it was no more ridiculous than the one about the arc of the covenant, the openly racist one about mad indians or the one about the holy grail.

Post by **adam** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:39 pm

On that 'must have things for christmas' list on the other page, it should be said that pop up pirate is bloody great.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:40 pm

Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics · 9m9 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun final voting intention poll of the year tonight has Lab 4 ahead. LAB 36%, CON 32%, UKIP 16%, LDEM 6%, GRN 5%. Merry Xmas to all.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:45 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Who saying earlier about police numbers being slashed, believe it was you Spacedone?

Say this about this government, they believe in sucking off as many as possible..
Danesclose. Mentioned falling murders in London as a possible justification.

Yes he was, with apologies to Danesclose.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:48 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics · 9m9 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun final voting intention poll of the year tonight has Lab 4 ahead. LAB 36%, CON 32%, UKIP 16%, LDEM 6%, GRN 5%. Merry Xmas to all.

After a year of near incessant watery manure chucked in Ed's direction i will take that, as the year draws to an end, they've tired their damnedest but haven't quite yet finished him off, time for "them" is running out too..

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:51 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics · 9m9 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun final voting intention poll of the year tonight has Lab 4 ahead. LAB 36%, CON 32%, UKIP 16%, LDEM 6%, GRN 5%. Merry Xmas to all.

So is it safe to say that the recent opening of the gap between Labour and the Conservatives is real and not just random variation?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:58 pm

Spacedone wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics · 9m9 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun final voting intention poll of the year tonight has Lab 4 ahead. LAB 36%, CON 32%, UKIP 16%, LDEM 6%, GRN 5%. Merry Xmas to all.
So is it safe to say that the recent opening of the gap between Labour and the Conservatives is real and not just random variation?

Yes, all bar one recent poll would suggest that.

Osbornes autumn statement has concentrated minds, and will continue to do so as the implications sink in. A suspicious mind would believe that Osborne has deliberately thrown the election.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 10:58 pm

Spacedone wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics · 9m9 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun final voting intention poll of the year tonight has Lab 4 ahead. LAB 36%, CON 32%, UKIP 16%, LDEM 6%, GRN 5%. Merry Xmas to all.
So is it safe to say that the recent opening of the gap between Labour and the Conservatives is real and not just random variation?

Looks like it, though I never believed the polls anyway, esp. considering that now I'm a "Sun Reader" over at You Gove I've had more political polls in 2 weeks than in the whole time I've been with them

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 11:08 pm

Police covering for East Midlands Ambulance Service paramedics
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30580783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 11:09 pm

Andy Burnham ‏@andyburnhammp · 13s13 seconds ago
David Cameron's NHS isn't working >

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 11:19 pm

tom_watsonVerified account
‏@tom_watson "Labour plot to unseat Clegg". Hardly a 'plot'. It's a plan by a determined candidate and a great campaign team.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 11:22 pm

Spacedone wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics · 9m9 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun final voting intention poll of the year tonight has Lab 4 ahead. LAB 36%, CON 32%, UKIP 16%, LDEM 6%, GRN 5%. Merry Xmas to all.
So is it safe to say that the recent opening of the gap between Labour and the Conservatives is real and not just random variation?

My best guess is about a 3-4% consistent lead, which would mean a majority government. The damage has been done by Osborne's insistence on cutting further. People have taken fright, as many do reloy on the state in some way or have rellies and friends who do. They simply don't wish to see them thrown to the wolves and probably harbour lingering worries.

What were it me? What would I do? Do I really want to vote for that?

It's one of those times when people sit down and start working out how they'd get on in a post "welfare state" state. And I think that not only would many people perish, but that they know that only too well themselves. Here's a massive opportunity for Labour, if they're smart enough to grasp it:

Tell people what a scaled back state will be like (hellish) and then compare it with what might happen if the - very real - alternative came about. I'm not talking the few years after 2015, although there is no actual reason why the Bevan government's achievements couldn't be repeated or even bettered.

As long as we have our own currency we can proceed as we like and the money markets, spooked as they are and looking for a safe haven, will buy in for a return. They won't be buying into markets/governments that promise eternal penury - where's the profit in that? - so offer a fixed, modest, guaranteed return (traditionally what UK bonds do promise) and replicate the social revolution that Bevin brought about.

It's really not that difficult. All it takes is belief in the future and in the people who live in this septic, er, sceptred isle. Let the world come to our door, and not the opposite.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 11:39 pm

: Daily Mail _Queue That Shames Britain.jpg (94.05 KiB) Viewed 13702 times

Nick Robinson ‏@bbcnickrobinson 1h1 hour ago
Tomorrow's Mail front page may make Tories feel a little unwell.
"The queue that shames Britain"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 11:49 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics · 9m9 minutes ago
YouGov/Sun final voting intention poll of the year tonight has Lab 4 ahead. LAB 36%, CON 32%, UKIP 16%, LDEM 6%, GRN 5%. Merry Xmas to all.
So is it safe to say that the recent opening of the gap between Labour and the Conservatives is real and not just random variation?
My best guess is about a 3-4% consistent lead, which would mean a majority government. The damage has been done by Osborne's insistence on cutting further. People have taken fright, as many do reloy on the state in some way or have rellies and friends who do. They simply don't wish to see them thrown to the wolves and probably harbour lingering worries.

What were it me? What would I do? Do I really want to vote for that?

It's one of those times when people sit down and start working out how they'd get on in a post "welfare state" state. And I think that not only would many people perish, but that they know that only too well themselves. Here's a massive opportunity for Labour, if they're smart enough to grasp it:

Tell people what a scaled back state will be like (hellish) and then compare it with what might happen if the - very real - alternative came about. I'm not talking the few years after 2015, although there is no actual reason why the Bevan government's achievements couldn't be repeated or even bettered.

As long as we have our own currency we can proceed as we like and the money markets, spooked as they are and looking for a safe haven, will buy in for a return. They won't be buying into markets/governments that promise eternal penury - where's the profit in that? - so offer a fixed, modest, guaranteed return (traditionally what UK bonds do promise) and replicate the social revolution that Bevin brought about.

It's really not that difficult. All it takes is belief in the future and in the people who live in this septic, er, sceptred isle. Let the world come to our door, and not the opposite.

Well said, once again. Apologies for not writing more - I'm tired. I was with some young people today & talked with them about why I joined the Labour party. It was fun, moving, spontaneous.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 22 Dec, 2014 11:51 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Daily Mail _Queue That Shames Britain.jpg

Nick Robinson ‏@bbcnickrobinson 1h1 hour ago
Tomorrow's Mail front page may make Tories feel a little unwell.
"The queue that shames Britain"

Blimey, when Nick Robinson is pointing out Bad News for David Cameron he really is screwed.

I agree with Ernst, in fact I think as the reality of what a Tory government sinks in (which it will as the campaign kicks off) that Labour lead will grow a little.

You may even get a reverse of the shy Tory, telling the pollsters you are all for austerity and balanced budgets before silently voting to keep the public services you rely on.