Christmas Eve 2014

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 12:55 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Oborne has his ups and downs as we all know. Today is one of his downs. Big time!
Do not read this if you've just eaten:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ution.html

Is this satire? Given the publication, probably not. Impossible to read it any other way, regardless of intent, otherwise body and mind go into extreme rejection mode. Bleargh.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:06 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All and may I echo all the festive and birthday greetings

@Alison_Inman shared this from Colchester's Lib Dem MP (on Twitter)

It's a Letter in today's Daily Gazette http://www.gazette-news.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sir Bob's LibDem Colchester majority 48% in 2010. Do his constituents really like this sort of thing? Awful - I thought it was a joke, a satirical piece.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:14 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Oborne has his ups and downs as we all know. Today is one of his downs. Big time!
Do not read this if you've just eaten:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ution.html
Is this satire? Given the publication, probably not. Impossible to read it any other way, regardless of intent, otherwise body and mind go into extreme rejection mode. Bleargh.

Oborne does occasionally produce these gems amongst his more level headed stuff

Cynics might see it as a way of "proving" his loyalty?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:20 pm

Willow904 wrote:Rather alarming NHS funding article over at the BBC today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30594929
Under the plans, centres treating more patients than expected would receive just half the extra treatment costs.
Since the internal market created under Thatcher, the advantages of being a 'national' service have all been wiped out, haven't they?

Yes. But those lovers of internal markets in healthcare will defend their healthcare market economy somehow.

Yessir, jest gobbling up all that healthcare, greed, greed, greedy healthcare users...& Honey, don't get me started on how those healthcare providers just love to provide care! Demand to be paid wages, of course,...yep, greed greed greed...

That was satire, above, okay? I think it's obvious but after reading that Bob Russell MP 'Twas the Night Before Bedroom Tax abomination I can't be too careful.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:27 pm

Rather glad this one's behind a paywall.

James Chapman (Mail) retweeted
MustBeRead @MustBeRead · 4h 4 hours ago
Cameron should beware of the martyrdom of Theresa May, warns Matthew Parris http://thetim.es/1xfIGdR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:33 pm

@frightful_oik

Happy birthday!

Good afternoon, everyone. (I did my Christmas greetings yesterday - I'm not ignoring it. I might have jumped the gun and so it went largely unnoticed?)

Merry Christmas!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:36 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Oborne has his ups and downs as we all know. Today is one of his downs. Big time!
Do not read this if you've just eaten:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ution.html
Is this satire? Given the publication, probably not. Impossible to read it any other way, regardless of intent, otherwise body and mind go into extreme rejection mode. Bleargh.
Oborne does occasionally produce these gems amongst his more level headed stuff

Cynics might see it as a way of "proving" his loyalty?

He's off his fucking head.
edited to remove what may have been offensive.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:39 pm

Two new election prediction blog posts from Iain Dale:

GENERAL ELECTION PREDICTIONS 5: HERTFORDSHIRE
http://iaindale.com/posts/2014/12/23/ge ... tfordshire

This might interest Tizme:

10. Watford
2010 Result:
Conservative: 19291 (34.9%)
Labour: 14750 (26.7%)
Lib Dem: 17866 (32.4%)
BNP: 1217 (2.2%)
Green: 885 (1.6%)
UKIP: 1199 (2.2%)
MAJORITY: 1425 (2.6%)
Sitting MP: Richard Harrington (Con)
Prediction: Narrow Labour gain
A genuine three way marginal, this rates as one of the LibDems’ top targets. They have a strong popular local candidate in the mayor of Watford Dorothy Thornhill, but in reality the contest is likely to be between Labour and the sitting Tory MP. Rather like Stevenage, if Ed Miliband is doing well, this is the kind of seat he will expect to win.

He has Stevenage as a narrow Labour gain. And, horror of horrors, says Grant Shapps will have massively increased his majority in Welwyn & Hatfield.

and

GENERAL ELECTION PREDICTIONS 6: BEDFORDSHIRE
http://iaindale.com/posts/2014/12/24/ge ... dfordshire

Post by **refitman** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:40 pm

Happy Birthday to frightful oik and Merry Christmas to every one.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:41 pm

Afternoon all.
Here's wishing seasons greetings to you and your families.

I've enjoyed the excellent information provided by the many FTN posters this past year, here's looking forward to a happy new year!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All and may I echo all the festive and birthday greetings

@Alison_Inman shared this from Colchester's Lib Dem MP (on Twitter)

It's a Letter in today's Daily Gazette http://www.gazette-news.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sir Bob's LibDem Colchester majority 48% in 2010. Do his constituents really like this sort of thing? Awful - I thought it was a joke, a satirical piece.

Just called him a liar.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 1:45 pm

Surprised that there is no mention a certain leading politician is 45 today. Happy birthday, Ed

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:04 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Surprised that there is no mention a certain leading politician is 45 today. Happy birthday, Ed

No - it was mentioned up thread - honest. We realised that frightfuloik was in very good company with the shared birthday.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:13 pm

Happy Birthday Frightful Oik, and a Merry Christmas to one & all. My Crimbo gift to you all is a Zelostreet piece on Paul Staines making an utter tit of himself. complete with video footage. Enjoy.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... f-iod.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:16 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is an important piece given where it is. Making very clearly the point that the problem with A&E starts with reduced resource to move people out of hospital and support them in the community.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:17 pm

Happy everything to all!

Sir Bob abuses the word 'subsidy' like any good tory. There would be no 'subsidy' of council rents if there wasn't such foolish policies in place as 80% of market rents for social housing. It's the mind-twisting result of accepting market ideology as a guiding principle and aim in life, rather than housing people as cheaply and efficiently as possible.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:29 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Surprised that there is no mention a certain leading politician is 45 today. Happy birthday, Ed

"Capricorn, the upward climbing, always forward moving Mountain Goat, represents the 10th Sign of the Zodiac.

Committed to responsibilities, Capricorn is a Sign representing the work side of life.

Often calm, to the degree of appearing slightly cold, meticulous and dogged in their persistence for quality and productivity, Capricorn individuals are often a notch above their counterparts. Prodigious and confident, Goats are hard working, sincere, soft hearted yet sticklers for quality.

Most of them are blessed with a deep wisdom, understanding and stability of thought and action from an early age. However, this does not make them boring or staid – even though a bit slow to truly flower. In fact, born with the wisdom of mature adults, the Goats, as they grow older tend to hark back to childhood in all its glory.

So, you may find a young Cappy somewhat dull, even lazy and tedious, thinner, shorter or weaker than his/ her peers (or fatter, for that matter) – in short, a misfit – working most nights, unwilling to go out, guarded and closed. However, as this Capricorn gets to the other side of 30, you may see him/ her changing his/ her streaks altogether. This is when you will see the sparkly, lively side of the Capricorn-borns. Patience, achievement, practicality and security net are their buzzwords.

They may even act selfishly, if they don’t get what they want. However, love for them is special. It is a lot about stability and commitment, so from an early age, marriage is on the Goats’ minds. Loyal and caring towards their loved ones, the Capricorn individuals, though, will even pass up love for duty and virtue."

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:33 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All and may I echo all the festive and birthday greetings

@Alison_Inman shared this from Colchester's Lib Dem MP (on Twitter)

It's a Letter in today's Daily Gazette http://www.gazette-news.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sir Bob's LibDem Colchester majority 48% in 2010. Do his constituents really like this sort of thing? Awful - I thought it was a joke, a satirical piece.
Just called him a liar.

Just favourited it!

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:51 pm

Merry Christmas, all.

Happy Birthday Oik and Ed.

That's all for now.

Cake is calling.....

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 2:58 pm

As it's Christmas eve, I thought I'd pass on a little Christmas story which Rikki Fulton told in a pantomime some years ago.

Once upon a time, long, long ago, Santa didn’t just deliver presents to children - he also delivered a Christmas tree to every house. One Christmas eve, Santa had checked that he had the right number of trees, the right size for each house, all individually labelled, loaded on his sleigh when the Good Fairy rushed out of the warehouse.
“Santa, Santa” she called “there’s a tree left with no label. What will I do with it?”
And Santa told her exactly what to do with it – which is why, boys and girls, there is always a fairy on the top of the Christmas tree to this very day.

Happy Christmas everybody.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 3:14 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -home.html

This is an important piece given where it is. Making very clearly the point that the problem with A&E starts with reduced resource to move people out of hospital and support them in the community.

Yes,as I boringly repeat heightening criteria to only substantial/critical from next year the default concurrent with the plethora of policies that actively penalise self/care family carers -particularly the poorest and most likely to do so ,is just so senseless and the obvious consequences so clear to all but the misanthrope and ideologue.We avoid delayed discharges AND hospitalisation in the first place precisely because of support and my ability to care,many can not.They are making it harder ,of course.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 3:32 pm

Ah Rikki Fulton,his Rev.I.M.Jolly used to have me laughing for days on end.

Sticky99 · Post by **Sticky99** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 4:44 pm

Afternoon all,

I hope you all have a fabulous Christmas and a smashing 2015.

This article on the Telegraph caught my eye, “Labour's crucial ethnic minority vote set to collapse”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... lapse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The piece is full of holes and misleading sentences, but the main thrust of the article is based upon a false caricature. Dr Maria Sobolewska is described as an “expert” (okay, I’ll just take that at face value) and says who Labour is sitting pretty on votes from ethnic minority communities.

Really? Which Labour figure has said that the party has ethnic minority votes in the bag, or suggested as such? Genuinely, do Labour MP’s from ethnic community backgrounds not bother campaigning because they have ethnic votes are “in the bag”? I know this partly isn’t true on a local level, and even the article, despite the headline has no evidence of complacency on a national level – making someone’s opinion louder doesn’t make it right.

However, I will say say this; for decades the Labour party has been a party of inclusion. Whether that is based upon race, religion, sexual orientation or gender – Labour embraced different cultures, genders etc when it wasn’t popular to do so. That is the real test of a party, the Conservatives have suddenly woken up and realised that ethnic votes are important, but what they fundamentally got wrong is that by being on the wrong side of changes in society from the outset, they can’t undo decades of animosity and alienation. You don’t just gain ethnic minority votes when it is popular, Labour believed many decades ago that it was morally right to be inclusive, the Tories only want these votes to merely win elections – it might sound naïve – but there is a substantial difference in the approach imo.

This made me chuckle:

“The party's election chief Lynton Crosby has said the party must do more to attract the vote”

Eh? A few years ago it was said that Lynton Crosby wasn’t interested in specifically attracting ethnic minority voters, he was seemingly obsessed with themes on immigration, benefits and the economy. The article could at least be consistent in this regard.

The Tories are in a catch 22 situation on ethnic minority votes and immigration. They campaign against and snipe about immigrants, but UKIP has taken a lot of Tory voters who feel the strongest about immigration.

Yet the Tories haven’t benefited from significantly more ethnic voters as a result - why would you want to vote for a party that doesn’t like you? Whenever Call me Dave is in hot water with his backbenchers (which is frequently), he churns out cheap rhetoric on immigration to appease them. In trying to make his internal environment easier, he alienates ethnic voters and further detaches himself from demographic shifts in society.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 4:54 pm

re: above

I read the Torygraph article, let's start with the basics, if the ethnic minority vote is leaving Labour, where is it going?

UKIP - unlikely.
Lib Dems - very unlikely.
Tory - apparently not.
Green - as unlikely as lib Dems.

So presumably it is going to the we aren't going to vote bucket.

Or the article is bollocks.

I also agree with your view on ethnic minorities and Labour thinking. Who seriously thinks, oh they aren't white they are bound to vote Labour.

Still Dave's dash to UKIP definitely helps.

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 5:11 pm

Hi all! Sitting at a friend's eagerly awaiting my double egg and chips with peas and taking the opportunity to use their wi-fi as mine is non-existent until 29/12. So much catching up to do but the important thing now is to say I hope all you lovely people have a good Christmas and we must all hope for a better world in 2015. Love and peace to everyone including absent friends.

Rest in Peace my friend Glennis, a Peterborough Labour Party Member, who died suddenly last week and who did so much for anyone in need and the children at her local school.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 5:27 pm

Finally have my Christmas stuff done and dusted.

Usually cook the dinner for my family, but am having a break from that this year

All the best to everybody on here - and since the next few days are likely to be quiet, maybe the mods might combine 25/26 Dec into a single thread?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 5:37 pm

Read to the end...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 5:42 pm

giselle97 wrote:Hi all! Sitting at a friend's eagerly awaiting my double egg and chips with peas and taking the opportunity to use their wi-fi as mine is non-existent until 29/12. So much catching up to do but the important thing now is to say I hope all you lovely people have a good Christmas and we must all hope for a better world in 2015. Love and peace to everyone including absent friends.

Rest in Peace my friend Glennis, a Peterborough Labour Party Member, who died suddenly last week and who did so much for anyone in need and the children at her local school.

Lovely to hear from you giselle ... have a great Christmas. The double egg and chips with peas sound fantastic. I will have to drop a hint to Mr Riots later...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 5:45 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Read to the end...

FFS. Apologies - rendered speechless other than that.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 6:10 pm

Couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy...
"Former DEFRA Secretary of State Owen Paterson MP, has received the Guano Award for Environmental Harm"
http://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=4781" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 6:12 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Read to the end...

Not a word about public sector fat cats. Hunt could usefully make this point.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 6:14 pm

Sticky99 wrote:Afternoon all,

I hope you all have a fabulous Christmas and a smashing 2015.

This article on the Telegraph caught my eye, “Labour's crucial ethnic minority vote set to collapse”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... lapse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The piece is full of holes and misleading sentences, but the main thrust of the article is based upon a false caricature. Dr Maria Sobolewska is described as an “expert” (okay, I’ll just take that at face value) and says who Labour is sitting pretty on votes from ethnic minority communities.

Really? Which Labour figure has said that the party has ethnic minority votes in the bag, or suggested as such? Genuinely, do Labour MP’s from ethnic community backgrounds not bother campaigning because they have ethnic votes are “in the bag”? I know this partly isn’t true on a local level, and even the article, despite the headline has no evidence of complacency on a national level – making someone’s opinion louder doesn’t make it right.

However, I will say say this; for decades the Labour party has been a party of inclusion. Whether that is based upon race, religion, sexual orientation or gender – Labour embraced different cultures, genders etc when it wasn’t popular to do so. That is the real test of a party, the Conservatives have suddenly woken up and realised that ethnic votes are important, but what they fundamentally got wrong is that by being on the wrong side of changes in society from the outset, they can’t undo decades of animosity and alienation. You don’t just gain ethnic minority votes when it is popular, Labour believed many decades ago that it was morally right to be inclusive, the Tories only want these votes to merely win elections – it might sound naïve – but there is a substantial difference in the approach imo.

This made me chuckle:

“The party's election chief Lynton Crosby has said the party must do more to attract the vote”

Eh? A few years ago it was said that Lynton Crosby wasn’t interested in specifically attracting ethnic minority voters, he was seemingly obsessed with themes on immigration, benefits and the economy. The article could at least be consistent in this regard.

The Tories are in a catch 22 situation on ethnic minority votes and immigration. They campaign against and snipe about immigrants, but UKIP has taken a lot of Tory voters who feel the strongest about immigration.

Yet the Tories haven’t benefited from significantly more ethnic voters as a result - why would you want to vote for a party that doesn’t like you? Whenever Call me Dave is in hot water with his backbenchers (which is frequently), he churns out cheap rhetoric on immigration to appease them. In trying to make his internal environment easier, he alienates ethnic voters and further detaches himself from demographic shifts in society.

Clickbait (the DT not you). Labour, boo, ethnics boo, ethnics voting Labour boo, ethnics not voting Labour boo.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 6:30 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 6:33 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

And have a lovely Christmas...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 6:47 pm

Just back from seeing my family.

My sister has decided she's going back to her childhood and insisted I opened my present as soon as we arrived. She had found a pair of Lyle stockings, the short my gran used to wear only minus the darns, and filled one with childhood memories including Buttered Brazils, [haven't been able to find any for years] Lemonade Power, Acid drops, a red Post Office tin money box, and a box of miniature crackers with metal charms inside and not forgetting some shiny pennies, nuts, an orange, and a cracker.

Weirdly, somehow, I was in sync because I had sorted out a 1950's book about toys to make and knit for her apart from her present.
Happy memories.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 6:50 pm

Christmas Eve Flood warnings across the North of England - Take care

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 44512.html#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:13 pm

And a very happy birthday to @frightful_oik (and Ed) too!

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:13 pm

Edit as double-posted somehow

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:14 pm

giselle97 wrote:Hi all! Sitting at a friend's eagerly awaiting my double egg and chips with peas and taking the opportunity to use their wi-fi as mine is non-existent until 29/12. So much catching up to do but the important thing now is to say I hope all you lovely people have a good Christmas and we must all hope for a better world in 2015. Love and peace to everyone including absent friends.

Rest in Peace my friend Glennis, a Peterborough Labour Party Member, who died suddenly last week and who did so much for anyone in need and the children at her local school.

I sincerely hope you have a slice of bread and butter and a cup of strong tea with the double egg and chips....Me and Mr Ohso like a bit of bacon with ours....Enjoy

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:22 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
giselle97 wrote:Hi all! Sitting at a friend's eagerly awaiting my double egg and chips with peas and taking the opportunity to use their wi-fi as mine is non-existent until 29/12. So much catching up to do but the important thing now is to say I hope all you lovely people have a good Christmas and we must all hope for a better world in 2015. Love and peace to everyone including absent friends.

Rest in Peace my friend Glennis, a Peterborough Labour Party Member, who died suddenly last week and who did so much for anyone in need and the children at her local school.
I sincerely hope you have a slice of bread and butter and a cup of strong tea with the double egg and chips....Me and Mr Ohso like a bit of bacon with ours....Enjoy

Surely not Ohso - the slice of bread and butter and cup of strong tea is for having with fish and chips. Mr Riots and I used to go to a chippy in Penzance (when we visited there) which always served them alongside - and called me 'hen' and him 'cock' to boot. Bloody good stuff.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:24 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
giselle97 wrote:Hi all! Sitting at a friend's eagerly awaiting my double egg and chips with peas and taking the opportunity to use their wi-fi as mine is non-existent until 29/12. So much catching up to do but the important thing now is to say I hope all you lovely people have a good Christmas and we must all hope for a better world in 2015. Love and peace to everyone including absent friends.

Rest in Peace my friend Glennis, a Peterborough Labour Party Member, who died suddenly last week and who did so much for anyone in need and the children at her local school.
I sincerely hope you have a slice of bread and butter and a cup of strong tea with the double egg and chips....Me and Mr Ohso like a bit of bacon with ours....Enjoy
Surely not Ohso - the slice of bread and butter and cup of strong tea is for having with fish and chips. Mr Riots and I used to go to a chippy in Penzance (when we visited there) which always served them alongside - and called me 'hen' and him 'cock' to boot. Bloody good stuff.

Bread and butter's a must have to mop up the vinegar and the last of the egg.

[I don't like ketchup or any sort of sauce]

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:28 pm

And when I was young mum always included Heinz baked beans with our eggs and chips.
Thinking back we had baked beans with pretty much every meal. I can just about stomach the sauce they're in but only in a very small quantity.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:29 pm

: Christmas Rail Replacement Bus Set.jpg (120.44 KiB) Viewed 11928 times

Tim Dunn ‏@MrTimDunn 10h10 hours ago
@IMcMillan Britain's train sets really aren't what they were. pic.twitter.com/rXHAzH0mZH

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 7:53 pm

Karl Turner MP retweeted
Simon Myerson QC ‏@SCynic1 7m7 minutes ago Jordan
.@SimonHughesMP @tabard Oh look there are our rights & the criminal justice system melting away under your tender stewardship.

Grimly mind.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 8:14 pm

The candles are lit,so is the woodburner.Wine opened ages ago.
I hope you all have a lovely Christmas,shut the doors and forget about politics for a day or so,and eat lots of cake.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 8:16 pm

Sticky99 wrote:Afternoon all,

I hope you all have a fabulous Christmas and a smashing 2015.

This article on the Telegraph caught my eye, “Labour's crucial ethnic minority vote set to collapse”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... lapse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The piece is full of holes and misleading sentences, but the main thrust of the article is based upon a false caricature. Dr Maria Sobolewska is described as an “expert” (okay, I’ll just take that at face value) and says who Labour is sitting pretty on votes from ethnic minority communities.

Really? Which Labour figure has said that the party has ethnic minority votes in the bag, or suggested as such? Genuinely, do Labour MP’s from ethnic community backgrounds not bother campaigning because they have ethnic votes are “in the bag”? I know this partly isn’t true on a local level, and even the article, despite the headline has no evidence of complacency on a national level – making someone’s opinion louder doesn’t make it right.

However, I will say say this; for decades the Labour party has been a party of inclusion. Whether that is based upon race, religion, sexual orientation or gender – Labour embraced different cultures, genders etc when it wasn’t popular to do so. That is the real test of a party, the Conservatives have suddenly woken up and realised that ethnic votes are important, but what they fundamentally got wrong is that by being on the wrong side of changes in society from the outset, they can’t undo decades of animosity and alienation. You don’t just gain ethnic minority votes when it is popular, Labour believed many decades ago that it was morally right to be inclusive, the Tories only want these votes to merely win elections – it might sound naïve – but there is a substantial difference in the approach imo.

This made me chuckle:

“The party's election chief Lynton Crosby has said the party must do more to attract the vote”

Eh? A few years ago it was said that Lynton Crosby wasn’t interested in specifically attracting ethnic minority voters, he was seemingly obsessed with themes on immigration, benefits and the economy. The article could at least be consistent in this regard.

The Tories are in a catch 22 situation on ethnic minority votes and immigration. They campaign against and snipe about immigrants, but UKIP has taken a lot of Tory voters who feel the strongest about immigration.

Yet the Tories haven’t benefited from significantly more ethnic voters as a result - why would you want to vote for a party that doesn’t like you? Whenever Call me Dave is in hot water with his backbenchers (which is frequently), he churns out cheap rhetoric on immigration to appease them. In trying to make his internal environment easier, he alienates ethnic voters and further detaches himself from demographic shifts in society.

As Saeeda Warsi suggested, Cameron has kissed goodbye to the Muslim vote. Doesn't mean it will naturally gravitate to Labour, but it sure ain't going Nigel or Nicky's way.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 9:11 pm

I indulge my friends on Christmas Eve - they've just gone home after a menu of mussels with white wine, garlic and tarragon, then scallops & leeks oriental style followed by plaice fillets in butter with spinach. Sloshed down with some chilled white wine.

Merry Christmas everyone

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 9:25 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Happy Birthday Frightful Oik, and a Merry Christmas to one & all. My Crimbo gift to you all is a Zelostreet piece on Paul Staines making an utter tit of himself. complete with video footage. Enjoy.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... f-iod.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Enjoyed that!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 9:49 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I indulge my friends on Christmas Eve - they've just gone home after a menu of mussels with white wine, garlic and tarragon, then scallops & leeks oriental style followed by plaice fillets in butter with spinach. Sloshed down with some chilled white wine.

Merry Christmas everyone

I want to come round and eat at yours! Yum!

Sticky99 · Post by **Sticky99** » Wed 24 Dec, 2014 9:58 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:re: above

I read the Torygraph article, let's start with the basics, if the ethnic minority vote is leaving Labour, where is it going?

UKIP - unlikely.
Lib Dems - very unlikely.
Tory - apparently not.
Green - as unlikely as lib Dems.

So presumably it is going to the we aren't going to vote bucket.

Or the article is bollocks.

I also agree with your view on ethnic minorities and Labour thinking. Who seriously thinks, oh they aren't white they are bound to vote Labour.

Still Dave's dash to UKIP definitely helps.

Indeed on all accounts. The article was a load of bollocks because as you summarised, the other political parties hold little or no appeal to voters from ethnic minority communities. Set to collapse only makes sense if there is a political party taking away ethnic votes from Labour, but there isn't.

Just because Labour attracts a lot of ethnic voters, it doesn't mean my default they all vote Labour. Labour hasn't even suggested this, this article is a case of a caricature being made up from nothing, except cherry-picked quotes from a Doctor at a University.

I think Labour deserves the support it does receive from ethnic minorities. Labour has embraced ethnic minorities for decades when it wasn't popular, in fact it was popular to heckle them. That is the mark of a party, and fair play, they are reaping the rewards of having morale principals from decades ago. It isn't so much Labour sitting pretty on the ethnic vote, but the other party's total failure to engage and be genuinely inclusive towards these communities, and Labour can't be blamed for that.

The Lib Dems, despite their whiter than white rhetoric, have barley any ethnic minority representation or female representation. The Tories despised ethnic communities for decades, and jumping on a bandwagon decades later and conveniently getting some MP's from ethnic minority communities doesn't cut it.