Saturday 2nd & Sunday 3rd September 2023

[refitman]

Morning all.

[frog222]

Morning refit

[frog222]

This wide-ranging HCR Letter From America also points out the similarity between the new GOP laws forbidding women to cross state lines to seek abortions and the Fugitive Slave laws preceding the US Civil War --

" The economic numbers for the Biden administration are remarkable and demonstrate the strength of the system under which the government operated from 1933 to 1981: the idea that investing in ordinary Americans builds the economy far more efficiently than so-called “supply-side economics.” That economic ideology, advanced by the Reagan Republicans, claimed that cutting regulations and concentrating wealth at the top of the economy would enable business leaders to invest in the economy efficiently, cutting costs and driving economic growth.

But that vision has never produced as promised, while it has dramatically concentrated wealth and power since it went into effect in 1981. “Bidenomics” is a rejection of that theory and a return to the economic vision that built the country in the fifty years before it. Investing in infrastructure and programs that help ordinary Americans puts money and the power of innovation into their hands, driving the economy from the bottom up and the middle out, as Biden puts it. "

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.c ... dium=email

[AnatolyKasparov]

Morning refit

Not to worry, withdrawing from the ECHR will magically make everything better!

[frog222]

!

[refitman]

Labour appealing to all the wrong people

[refitman]

Remember, the terfs are ALL about women's rights and feminism and stuff

[AnatolyKasparov]

I'm amazed how many are taking the utterings of a basically senile 90 year old GOP Senator with almost reverent seriousness.

And one thing Labour are doing whilst preparing for the GE is watching what Biden is doing. A reminder, too, that in 2020 he very much campaigned as a centrist.

[refitman]

I'm amazed how many are taking the utterings of a basically senile 90 year old GOP Senator with almost reverent seriousness.

And one thing Labour are doing whilst preparing for the GE is watching what Biden is doing. A reminder, too, that in 2020 he very much campaigned as a centrist.

But he also campaigned on public investment.

[refitman]

Just found out that Ali Bongo Ondimba, the now deposed President of Gabon, had a previous career as a funk musician

[AnatolyKasparov]

Good morefternoon to all on this very nice day.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I bet a male house spider a tenner last night that when I got up this morning it would be trapped in my kitchen sink and that's exactly what happened. However when I helped it out it scuttled off without paying. Never trust an arachnid.

Once again I can't recommend this marvellous site highly enough.

https://radiooooo.com/

Today has so far been spent listening to Taiwan in the Sixties.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Just found out that Ali Bongo Ondimba, the now deposed President of Gabon, had a previous career as a funk musician

The first track on his album is actually pretty good (and funky).

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I'm amazed how many are taking the utterings of a basically senile 90 year old GOP Senator with almost reverent seriousness.

And one thing Labour are doing whilst preparing for the GE is watching what Biden is doing. A reminder, too, that in 2020 he very much campaigned as a centrist.

Yes Labour should be watching. Biden's budget proposal for 2024 includes a 25 percent tax on all wealth over $100 million while almost doubling Capital Gains tax for those earning over $1 million. He also wants to close corporate tax loopholes including doubling the tax on offshore corporate profits.

Labour are offering nothing like this.

[AnatolyKasparov]

And then I come back to my other point, which is that (even if he did mention investment) Biden didn't campaign as he is now governing.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

And then I come back to my other point, which is that (even if he did mention investment) Biden didn't campaign as he is now governing.

Sorry AK but that's simply untrue.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/18/poli ... index.html

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ ... plan-2020/

The only new proposal for 2024 is the wealth tax on billionaires. All the rest he campaigned on, including the doubling of capital gains for those earning more than a million and the huge hike in tax on offshore profits.

On a completely different subject...what the hell are Man Utd wearing?

[refitman]

Speaking of Labour appealing to all the wrong people

[AnatolyKasparov]

This is a pointless conversation really, until Labour actually takes power and proves somebody right (or, quite possibly, all of us a bit wrong)

[refitman]

No, it's not pointless. Labour's current direction of travel is "well, things are terrible, but we can't do anything about it (shut up! we can't, honestly), so we'll do the bare minimum, to hopefully keep things ticking over". This needs to be pointed out to people, so pressure can be put on the party to actually affect some change, that will benefit people who actually need help.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Don't worry I'll get bored of this eventually.

[frog222]

GLEN kIRSCHNER ON FORM !

[AnatolyKasparov]

Some on here might like to read up on the 1932 election in the US.

Though it seems hard to believe given what came subsequently, the Democrats played it remarkably safe - emphasising the need for a change of gpvernment whilst not committing to very much. There was widespread weariness after the previous bruising few years and cynicism that much would change even if the GOP lost, and one indicator of this was both the US Socialist and Communist partles doing well come polling day (the former would never get as many votes again, the latter got easily their best total ever)

We know what happened next, of course. Some people sought to explain this by saying Roosevelt was forced by events to do radical things. Well yes, he was - but without wanting (no, genuinely) to claim SKS is another FDR, is it not possible something of the same dynamic might apply to Labour in power as well?

[Sky'sGoneOut]

This is a pointless conversation really, until Labour actually takes power and proves somebody right (or, quite possibly, all of us a bit wrong)

So what you are effectively saying here is that it's a waste of time discussing Labour policies until they win an election. Not only that but we must disregard everything they say until that happens because they might just be pretending to be lurching to the right while secretly planning to lurch leftwards once in power.

The problem with that is it flies in the face of all the facts and relies on blind faith rather than reason. If there was a single shred of evidence for it you may have a point but unfortunately everything we do know points in the opposite direction. From the very beginning Starmer has reneged on one promise to the left after another and the rightward trajectory of his leadership is now so pronounced even a centre left 'centrist' like myself is appalled.

You claimed Biden didn't campaign on progressive policies, including tax reforms, and pivoted to the left once in power. As I've shown above that simply isn't true. From the start Biden was proposing tax reforms and union bolstering policies which would probably get him kicked out of Starmer's Labour Party these days and that's a huge problem. For the first time in probably all of our lives Labour is to the right of the U.S Democrats. Let that sink in. And it's not just on tax policies or union laws, it's on social security, civil liberties, you name it.

What you are asking us to do is have faith while rejecting the evidence of our eyes and ears.

[gilsey]

[gilsey]

What you are asking us to do is have faith while rejecting the evidence of our eyes and ears.

On the same lines

A Display of Utter Poltroonery

If there was anything about Starmer he would seize this as a major opportunity. He likes talking about his "missions", and circumstances have bequeathed him a problem that, if approached seriously, could occasion an excuse for the largest stimulus since the Second World War. Not money for asset price inflation. Not money for jobless recoveries. But money that would replace crumbling infrastructure and provide full employment for a generation. No need for silly gimmicks. It could overcome the divisions in Labour's base, and ensure the Tories and the reactionary constituencies clinging to them would be marginalised from politics for good. Here we have a clear mission that calls for a national effort, and instead of rising to the occasion and committing Labour to this ambitious but entirely deliverable project we get nothing. If a Starmer supporter ever asks why people are sceptical that a Labour government would deliver, just orient them to today's display of utter poltroonery.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

but without wanting (no, genuinely) to claim SKS is another FDR, is it not possible something of the same dynamic might apply to Labour in power as well?

Seriously AK? This is like asking us to compare an artisan Cornish pasty with a half eaten Greggs sausage roll from the bin.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Still though, I admire your faith Ak and I hope you're right. It would be nice.

(Not you being right...having a left wing government).

[Sky'sGoneOut]

That's the crux of it isn't it Gilsey? Starmer could transform this country, the possibilities are endless, and yet we get this pusillanimous bollocks.

Why? First past the post.

Need I say more?

[Sky'sGoneOut]

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I wont be around for the next week as I shall be visiting Por Favor.

[refitman]

I wont be around for the next week as I shall be visiting Por Favor.

Have fun and send her my best.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I wont be around for the next week as I shall be visiting Por Favor.

Have fun and send her my best.

I'll try my best.