Friday 13th October 2023

[refitman]

Morning all.

[tinyclanger2]

Anyone else read Dave Eggers' The Every? Terrifyingly plausible.

[AnatolyKasparov]

In the end, perhaps it was a shame Sky didn't get to do his usual QT review.

For one thing, TERF in chief Sonia Sodha got replaced - in a nod to the main issue of the day - by a spokesman for a Muslim charity. And whilst I didn't watch it myself, the response that Victoria Atkins - the unfortunate chosen to put the government line - got throughout was by all accounts little short of derision. Interestingly, her obviously pre-prepared speech about how "serving under Corbyn means Starmer is unfit to be PM" was openly laughed at.

[refitman]

I wonder if Starmer and Labour will row back their unequivocal backing of Israel?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Lots of Labour front benchers have said Israel should abide by international law.

But in wars bad things happen, even if the combatants are well intentioned.

The only solution to that is not to have them, but let's not forget that Hamas started this one.

[refitman]

Lots of Labour front benchers have said Israel should abide by international law.

But in wars bad things happen, even if the combatants are well intentioned.

The only solution to that is not to have them, but let's not forget that Hamas started this one.

Doesn't excuse committing war crimes. Or, in the case of Starmer, endorsing collective punishment.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I'm not excusing anything. Just saying how it is.

War is terrible and we should never forget that.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Evening. Apologies for being even more pissed than usual the other night, suffice it to say I suffered for it yesterday so some comeuppance was had.

Moving swiftly on I must say it's delightful to witness the Conservative Party, it's press, and media mouthpieces, trying to make political capital out of the slaughter of Israelis by trying to 'gotcha' everyone they see as their opponents, from anyone on the left to the BBC. In no way is this using human tragedy to desperately attempt to smear their adversaries and we should all be really proud that our government are willingly turning a blind eye to collective punishment and forced repatriation.

Unfortunately for them though their efforts appear to be bearing little fruit. I've been browsing the rancid depths of right wing comments for the last couple of days in response to articles from Guido Fawkes, the Mail, and GB News, and while of course there is plenty of the vileness you'd expect, what's surprising is the sheer number of dissenting voices.

Of course large sections of the far right still hate Jews despite the Israeli right's best efforts to woo them, which will account for some of that pushback, but beyond that it would appear that for a significant minority of the British right besieging and bombing an entire population for the acts of a few is beyond the pale.

What's happening in Israel and Gaza is so upsetting I'm skirting around it, there's nothing I can say that you're not already thinking yourselves. But from a British political perspective if the Conservatives imagine they're going to make any hay from their Israel first BBC bashing nonsense they've got another thing coming. At best they're appealing to maybe two thirds of their base and the worst is yet to come.

Israel may have political support for what it's about to do, but public support in this country? I suspect not.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Still, the sight of Putin warning Israel not to inflict too many civilian casualties gave me a much needed laugh.

[gilsey]

Lots of Labour front benchers have said Israel should abide by international law.

But in wars bad things happen, even if the combatants are well intentioned.

The only solution to that is not to have them, but let's not forget that Hamas started this one.

Doesn't seem much like a war to me, the two sides have to be a bit more evenly matched for that.

I've seen others suggest that Israel are 'well-intentioned', and that they do their best to avoid breaking international law. The evidence all points in the opposite direction.

As for who started it, you could say it was the IDF/Israeli govt being apparently asleep at the wheel. By all accounts many of the Israelis are nearly as angry with the govt as they are with Hamas.

Hamas are terrorist thugs but pretending they can be wiped out by military action? Again, historical evidence points to the opposite. Just an excuse to bomb the shit out of people you don't like. Massive civilian casualties can't be justified even if it worked, which it won't.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Also this soft bastard has turned his gas fire on.

I love the smell of six months of accumulated dust in the evening. It smells like...my fingers are coming back to life.

Raynaud's syndrome is really annoying. Any other part of your body you can keep warm relatively easily, but your fingers?

Yeah I could put big arctic gloves on but if I did that tgeb U qiulsn#t ve avle rp ry[e$

I inherited it from my Dad, which once my Mum's care home fees are taken care of is the most I'm going to get.

Yay!

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Doesn't seem much like a war to me, the two sides have to be a bit more evenly matched for that.

I've seen others suggest that Israel are 'well-intentioned', and that they do their best to avoid breaking international law. The evidence all points in the opposite direction.

As for who started it, you could say it was the IDF/Israeli govt being apparently asleep at the wheel. By all accounts many of the Israelis are nearly as angry with the govt as they are with Hamas.

Hamas are terrorist thugs but pretending they can be wiped out by military action? Again, historical evidence points to the opposite. Just an excuse to bomb the shit out of people you don't like. Massive civilian casualties can't be justified even if it worked, which it won't.

Indeed. Of course this isn't a war. This would be like the British invading Ireland in the early 90's for the IRA lobbing mortar bombs at Downing street and bombing the City of London, Heathrow and Warrington. Nobody in their right mind thought the collective punishment of Irish civilians was the answer and in the end it led to the peace process. A peace process so beloved of many 'Irish-American' Democrats like a certain Joe Biden who seem to have a very different opinions about terrorist violence when it comes to the IRA and Hamas.

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

Insurance issues delay UK attempts to bring citizens home from Israel

British-organised repatriation flights cancelled but other countries’ flights are able to land in UK

British citizens trying to escape the war zone in Israel are having their repatriation flights repeatedly cancelled by the British government, while emergency flights arranged by US and Australian authorities are landing in the UK.(Guardian - my emphasis)

[AnatolyKasparov]

Lots of Labour front benchers have said Israel should abide by international law.

But in wars bad things happen, even if the combatants are well intentioned.

The only solution to that is not to have them, but let's not forget that Hamas started this one.

Doesn't seem much like a war to me, the two sides have to be a bit more evenly matched for that.

Well until recently the numbers killed on each side were pretty similar, that may not be the case a week or so from now admittedly.

Wars do not have to be evenly matched to qualify for the title anyway.

Indeed, had Hamas "only" done the military stuff last weekend it would have been a massive humiliation for Israel and they would have been the toast of the entire Arab world (and indeed beyond) But they had to also do the other literally bestial things that do not need repeating here.

Once that happened, Israel's response was always going to be utterly brutal as I said when this kicked off. Because of what Hamas did, many leading politicians (like Biden and indeed Starmer) feel inhibited from seeming overtly critical of Israel in public. However, it is the case that even now there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff to try and avert the very worst that might happen. Let us all hope that indeed turns out to be the case.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Still, the sight of Putin warning Israel not to inflict too many civilian casualties gave me a much needed laugh.

Well indeed, in just the last week it's been estimated the Putin has sent 2000 of his own troops to their deaths trying to take the pile of rubble that was once the town of Avdiivka. Most of those will have been drafted men from Russia's poorest provinces who had no choice.

Despite many of the emigres to Israel over the last couple of decades being Russian Jews it's notable that there's little sympathy for Israel amongst the Russian military bloggers. Their reaction has been either delight because it takes the focus away from their crimes, or celebration that Jews have been killed because many of them are genuine neo-Nazis. While at the same time preserving allies is all important so now a Russian boy who burned the Koran doesn't face judicial justice, he faces Kadryov, (Chechen warlord) or death.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Hmmm...looking back it doesn't seem like I said anything that bad.

Anyway....